Trying to understand Christianity

[KiwiChristian]

Yep I totally agree with you Whitehorse - I was meaning from my perspective that I have had people say to me before I became a christian that I was going to hell without actually witnessing to me about Jesus dying on the cross.  I think there has to be a balance of what we tell people.

[Whitehorse]

Youchers! Makes me wonder if these people were even Christians! I'm very sorry to hear about what happened and I'm glad you were able to overcome it. Blessings to you.

[asaph]

I am not here to offend, but to learn, so if you have anything negative to say to me, please think before you say it! Thank you:

Question number one: "Thou shalt not judge." This being believed, how come when I tell a Christian I am not a Christian, they tell me I am going to hell. I thought only God could judge me!

And question number 2 (I'll just leave it at this for now...): God gave his creations free will, correct? Well if you have to be a Christian (basically) to get into heaven, what if you choose another religion? You go to hell? Seems more like bribery to me: believe what everyone else believes, or suffer eternal damnation.

*shrugs*

Please help me understand! Again, not trying to offend so just teach me please. Thanks guys!

*MaLiFiCeNt*

M-
Are you saying that God can't pass judgement on you if you tell a lie? How about steal a dollar? How about cheat on your taxes? How about beat up your kid? How about milking the system for greed's sake. How about fornicating.
The thing with judging is attitude. Am I glad you are going to hell? Not at all. If you are in a raft heading for a fall and I warn you to get to shore, am i judging you?

To choose religion at all is a grave mistake. Jesus is not a religion. A religion has no power to give life. A religion is nothing more than a lifeless idol. Even Christianity is an idol. People seek happiness there but find only bondage. Jesus said I am come to give them abundant life. He also came to give freedom from sin and death. Jesus is a friend of sinners. He took our sin when he died on the cross. He rose again the third day to make us right. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. He loves you enough to warn you of the fall. He loves you so much that he suffered and died so that you can be in Him and live forever. Hell is real and so is death. But Jesus is real and so is life in Him.
Choose life.

asaph

[Malificent]

Good day to you Asaph:

Much of what you said is arguable. It is things like what you have said that confuse me. Jesus himself is not a religion, yet he does belong to one. That's just they way it goes! I mean if he doesn't belong in Christianity, then where does he belong?

Also, you said something along the lines of if I was floating down the river and about to go over a waterfall that you would warn me. It is unnecessary. I know Christianity exists; who doesn't with all the churches everywhere and people trying to convert everyone into Christianity? In my mind, hell is inevitable if you want to view my future through Christian eyes. But you know why I'm not crapping a brick right now? Because IIII personally do not believe that hell exists. Here's how that is put together: It is MY life. If I don't believe in hell, there's no point in saying that it exists over and over and over to me. There is no way at all to prove that hell does exist, and this is true to matter what ANYONE says. We know that death exists because we see it. We do not know hell exists because we do not see it. So when you said hell is real, death is real, that is only partly true. So that being said, when you tell me that basically I will go to hell if I do not accept Jesus into my heart, and I don't believe in hell, there's no need to insist that I am going. And no matter what anyone says, unless you can dig a hole in the earth and reveal a firey chasm encapsulating tortured souls and the devil, sorry. There's no way I will believe.

AND furthermore, you said you felt sorry for me that I was going to hell. You were trying to warn me about hell, not judge me. But your statement in and of itself is judgmental. It became that way as soon as you said "you are going to hell". Anyone who tells me I am going to hell, no matter what form it's in, is being judgmental. This is also just a fact of life.

So continue to worry that I am going to hell. I will have no worry about it and live without worries such as: I can't have premarital sex. I can't say certain things because they are blasphemous. I can't sleep in because I have to go to church. My life is without worry because I do not believe in hell. Your life is full of worry because hell exists in the mind of a Christian. Does that make sense as to why there are so many non-Christians?

Again, PLEASE do not take this the wrong way I am only voicing what I believe, just as you have. If someone finds something wrong with what I have said above, then you have a problem with both sides of reality, and need to do some soul-searching. That is the only judgment I will pass.  

[Allinall]

Malificent,

You thanked Ralph for explaining the judgments of a Christian.  The judgments of a Christian aren't his/hers, but those judgments that God has already passed.  For example:

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:15

Those who, as you have said with your own words have accepted Jesus as their Savior, have their names written in this book.  If not there, then God's judgment has already been passed.  Asaph merely pointed that out.  Here's the crux of the situation: pointing that out is offensive!  Especially when the solution is not given.  Asaph gave the basis of that solution.  The solution is first to realize that Jesus isn't a religion.  Christianity is a religion.  Jesus didn't die so that we could have church on Sunday, or abstain from sin.  Jesus died for a relationship.

Sin is whatever goes contrary to God.  Some sins we don't even have to wonder if they are sins.  Some we don't even know are sins.  Sin separates us from God.  Sin prohibits a relationship with God.  Moreover, sin is judged by God and God alone by death.  You said that we all know people die.  God says that we're all born dead in sin:

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

Ephesians 2:1

Hey, that's me too!  I'm no better!  For me to tell you that you're a sinner and I'm not would be the pot calling the kettle black.  But for me to tell you what God calls you and me is not judging...

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3:23

So according to God we both are sinners.  That holds little importance if it was left at that.  But God didn't leave it at that...

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23

You said it yourself that we know people die, but what else does God say about death?

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14-15

To die, dead in sin, is to face the judgment of Hell.  That is what God has said.  Do you believe that God said that in His word?  I truly am not being antagonistic here.  I'm just asking.  

If you do believe, then this is a dire straight to be in to be sure!  What then did God chose to do to remedy this?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16

...and...

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person--though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die-- but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:6-8

What did God do?  He paid our penalty for our
sin on the cross.  He died for me.  He died for you.  Why?

looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:2

Because it was His joy to do so.  He loves me enough that He died for me.  He loves you enough that He died for you.  That isn't about religion.  It's about a relationship based upon a love that sacrifices everything for the benefit of another.  What's more, the eternal life He offers isn't a weak offering.  It is based upon His very resurrection.  He lives that we might live.

How does one then get this free gift?

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

We first realize that we can't work for it.  It doesn't matter what I do or do not do.  It only matters that I understand it is God's doing, God's giving and my obedience in accepting.  What do I mean by that?  I mean that right now you have a chance to accept this gift.  If you have any inkling that this is truth; if you have any sorrow for sin; if you have any persuasion to change your mind about any of this - then God is giving you the opportunity to change.  Change what?  Your mind.  You change what you have believed.  Instead of not believing, you believe.  You accept the gift that God has given.  Your heart.  Whatever holds your heart in opposition to God you exchange.  God becomes all when you accept the gift He has given.  Your will.  Your mind may agree.  Your heart may tell you that this is what you need, but your will is what may keep you from accepting this gift.  You change your will, and God changes you...

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."

Romans 10:9-11

This is alot!  But now, you have a solution.  The only difference between me and you, is that I'm a sinner saved by grace.  What will you do?

Christ's,

Kevin

[Brother Love]

This is alot!  But now, you have a solution.  The only difference between me and you, is that I'm a sinner saved by grace.  What will you do?

Christ's,

Kevin

Amen Kevin

Brother Love

[Ralph]

  Malificent--You say that in your mind hell is inevitable in the view of the christian mind. Not so, Not so. Nobody makes it on their own. The best get no closer to making it on their own than the worst of us. But Christ's own righteousness is freely given to ALL who turn away from hoping in themselves to rely upon what He has done. The same righteousness by which He triumphed over the grave is given as a robe of righteousness
for those who depend upon Him to wear as they stand before Him for judgment. How about THAT? Will THAT do? I'll say it will.

[Malificent]

The only issue I have at this point is trying to understand what has been said. Almost everyone is using these 40-word sentences. Break it down into stupid people terms so that I can understand it. Plus I can't understand scriptures with all the "thees" and "thous" and "smiteths" and "smoteths".

*pop*

lol

[Allinall]

Hmmmm...stupid people terms?  Ooooohhhh..."Me-speak!"  Got ya!  Ok  try this:

1.  God says that you're a sinner ( Here's a verse with no "thee's" "thou's" or "slewings"   ):

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3:23

- This means that when God measures how good we are, He measures us by how good He is.  And we all come up on the short end.

2.  God says that being a sinner earns us death:

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23

- This means that in being a sinner we earn God's judgment of death for our sin.  And yet...

3.  God says that Jesus took those earnings on Himself when He died for our sins:

but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:8

- This means that God loves us enough to pay the price for us.  I know you may be thinking, "Why not just not judge people to death?"  Because He's God!  Doing so would be His saying that sin was ok.  Instead, He took the earnings of our sin and put them on His Son Jesus on the cross.  So how do we take this "free gift?"

4.  God says that if we believe Him, change our minds and hearts about Him and our sin, and ask Him to forgive us that He will save us:

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Romans 10:9-10

- If we do this, then...

5.  God says that we have eternal life:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16

Does this help?

[Heidi]

It isn't a judgment about whether you are going to heaven or hell. It's simply a reality. If you don't know Christ, you can't find heaven. It's just like me saying that if I look for candy in a clothing store, I'm not going to find it. It's not a judgment, but a simple reality. How you feel about that reality is up to you.

[Ralph]

  Friends, Malificent has already linked an enjoyment of her present lifestyle with estrangement from God. That is in her favor. Many don't have that much understanding, so let's not
discount her understanding that much.
  The primary first proclamation concerning Christ was that He would save His people from their sin. Malificent's understanding that is more valuable to her than any threats of hell that you can hold over her. He did not come to save people from hell. He came to deliver us from evil. How important that is may be guessed from the extent God was willing to go to to deliver us. If any of us believe that the benefit Christ came to offer is escape from the flames, there is a real possibility that such a person doesn't understand
the gospel as well as Malificent.
  And BTW--to any who have questioned her name: that is a  wonderful name. Check your dictionary.

[Ralph]

  However content with their present life someone may be, they should never let that contentment keep them from considering the possibility that things can change suddenly.
  In Psalm 73, the psalmist was envious of those who prospered even though they had not turned to God. Then God opened his eyes--"...then I understood their end. Surely you set them in slippery places; you cast them down to destruction. Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment! They are utterly consumed with terrors. As a dream when one awakes, so, Lord, when you awake, you shall despise their image." (vv.17-20)
  That realization ended the Psalmists envy of them because
he knew that unlike those in slippery places, he was continually with the Lord who held him by his right hand.(v.23)
  The only reason the Psalmist was not in slippery places himself is because he was always with the Lord who was holding his hand--not because he in himself was better than those who were always in danger. Let no one have a proud look--any difference in people is strictly from God who shows mercy. Therefore, the Psalmist gives all praise and glory to God for his better footing: "He also brought me up out of a horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my steps." (Ps. 40:2)
  The slippery places refers to the nature we were all born
with--the adamic nature and its natural bent to evil. We were all born with it, none of us in ourselves better than the next.
I was born with the same nature Hitler and Stalin, and every other evil person was born with. It is God who makes men to differ--not what they are in themselves. That I did not do as Hitler or Stalin is not to my credit, but it is because of God's goodness to me. Want to know what Jeremiah meant when he said, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked."? Look at history and see in it the catalog of evils that human nature in itself is capable of; but "who can know it?" We cannot know it because God in mercy and in common
grace even to unbelievers holds people up, preventing their fall into the sins cataloged in human history.
  But unless people have been taught by Him to prefer Him over evil, He may awaken and despise their image, leaving them to plummet suddenly into depths which earlier they would not have cared to venture into. When the publican beat upon his breast and cried out, "God me merciful to me the sinner" he did not have hell in mind, but the morass of wickedness which Jesus saves His people from. Those who truly turned to Jesus were among the worst of men. They sought deliverance not from hell, but from sins which were destroying them.