IsraelsFirstReturn

[Hitch]

Any one know when this happened?

Hitch

[twobombs]

all the time pal... all the time

[Hitch]

I have no idea what that means...

[Reba]

Gen 31:3
3 And the LORD said unto Jacob, Return unto the land of thy fathers, and to thy kindred; and I will be with thee.
KJV . . .

Gen 32:28
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
KJV . . .

Gen 33:18
18 And Jacob came to Shalem, a city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, when he came from Padan-aram; and pitched his tent before the city.
KJV

[twobombs]

Return speaks on second visitation; you don't really want to hear my stuff about the mount moriah, mount calvary, the mountain of gathering, its past use and customs plus the reason why Israel keeps coming back to the place. I am going to spare you the agony of my answer....

I've seen too much flamewars recent days....   and I've got a nice hunch where this thread is heading; the furnace.

[Hitch]

Odd somthing so simple needs to be avoided so carefully.

H

[Petro]

twotombs,

And second return means it occured once before, causing the second to follow;

Isa 11
11:1  And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2  And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3  And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4  But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5  And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6  The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7  And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8  And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10  And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11  And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Clearly this is speaking of Israel the nation..............

12  And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13  The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14  But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
15  And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
16  And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
12:1  And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.
2  Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
3  Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
4  And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.
5  Sing unto the LORD; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth.
6  Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.

Zion, the Holy City....in Israel the nation...


Petro

[twobombs]

Petro: these type of scriptures can be found all through the OT, especially in the prophets; but I am/was planning my post that answers why that piece of land; why there, and not anywhere else ?

God gave the land to Abrahams seed with a reason....  I think that the reason has got to do with the history of that piece of land. Something happened over there before that caused the Israelites to return there; but the ot something the Israelites knew; they were never there before, where they ?

I will come back on this as soon as i've coupled all this to scripture, but I think it is very important to understand why this land; why the promise from God made by covenant, and not some other green pasture. Something happened over there, and God wanted the people that came out of Egypt to live there, replacing whatever what once was there, or took authority there....

[Petro]

Petro: these type of scriptures can be found all through the OT, especially in the prophets; but I am/was planning my post that answers why that piece of land; why there, and not anywhere else ?

God gave the land to Abrahams seed with a reason....  I think that the reason has got to do with the history of that piece of land. Something happened over there before that caused the Israelites to return there; but the ot something the Israelites knew; they were never there before, where they ?

I will come back on this as soon as i've coupled all this to scripture, but I think it is very important to understand why this land; why the promise from God made by covenant, and not some other green pasture. Something happened over there, and God wanted the people that came out of Egypt to live there, replacing whatever what once was there, or took authority there....

twotombs,

This land is spoken of in Genesis 2, it is refferred to as Eden.

8   And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

10  And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

Since there are no maps of the land, in this era, it is impossible to know exactly where the garden was, but of four rivers spoken, 2 still exist, the tigris and the  Euphartes still with the same name (mind you the graden of Eden wans't necessarily east of the Eupharates, it coulf have been west of it.

Most scholars of which none of us are (I think), believe the land that Gen 15:18 is reffering to is the boundaries of the Garden.

What is extremely interesting is that the gulf of Aqaba, on southern Palestine, could very well be at the end of one of these rivers which flowed into the Red Sea, from the head waters spoken of at verse 10,  the salt marshes in the area south of the Dead Seaa, is a prime example of a river flowing into a plain that has been silted up, which was a gorge at one time.

The first Adam lost what had been entrusted to Him, the last Adam has recovered, and will come to claim with power and glory, as a testimony to the nations, and then the end will come.

Petro

[Hitch]

LOL

Here is the 'first' return.

15  And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
16  And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.


So once back up from Egypt and once back from Babylon.

Too bad Petro

[Petro]

Haahh... LOL!

Heb 11
20  By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21  By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22  By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23  By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24  By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25  Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26  Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.
27  By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28  Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29  By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30  By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31  By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32  And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33  Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
34  Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35  Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36  And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37  They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38  (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39  And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


One could hardly count Abraham's, Isaac's, and Jacob'[s wanderings in the Land, as possessing it.

Some might, but unfortunately the Bible doesn't support  such a theory.

Israel took possession of the Land when they crossed the Jordan, remember the book of Joshua.

The babylonian captivity was the first and they returned to Jerusalem in the days of Ezra, there was a diaspora in 300 BC, but that could hardly be considered a captivity.

But 70 AD was the second, and they are returning NOW.

Read the headlines.....it will keep you abreast of world news...Israel is at the center of it all...

Of course unless, you consider yourself to be the center of your world.

Petro

[Reba]

Any thoughts on this scripture?

Ex 4:22
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
KJV

[Petro]

David is referred to a "my  firstborn Psa 89:20-27

Neither Jacob (Israel), nor David were firstborn in there families, and It could hardly be tied to firstborn as children of God, the reference in both verses, ultimately these verses refer to Christ.

Literally, Ex 4:22, refers to the nation Israel, not Jacob.

As  the only begotten SON and firstborn SON from the dead.

And His preeminence, in all things as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Petro

[twobombs]

Would anyone participating in this thread care
to really study the matter, and not use just
one tiny, puny scripture to prove one's point....

tnx

[Raphu]

Any thoughts on this scripture?

Ex 4:22
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
KJV

There it is again. The two houses of Israel, and the so-called lost sheep of Israel. God intends to reunite them, and especially the first born, Ephraim, who was son of Joseph. The first born double portion refers to the Spirit which was given to the church. Once the church is reunited with Judah, which does have many Messianic converts today, then the prophecy of the dry bones in Exekiel 37:16,17 will be fulfilled.
Much of the church today like to pridefully claim a replacement theology, but I see the scriptures clearly saying that God does not lose anything - especially His first born.
Hosea sons were named after Israel (Ephraim), and said that although Ephraims sins were so bad that he would be so swallowed up by the Gentile nations he'd become loammi - which means not my people, but they would become as "sons of the living God" later on.


Jeremiah 31:9  They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Hosea 1:9  Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10  Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Hosea 9:13  Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.

Ephraim planted in a pleasant place...? Does this sound like the New World, America? Perhaps the second part of the verse refers to us aborting our children in numbers that God surely has noticed.