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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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| | |-+  Romans 9:13 Need explanation!
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Author Topic: Romans 9:13 Need explanation!  (Read 4298 times)
HeavenIC
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« on: February 05, 2007, 06:44:43 AM »

Hi everyone.

I need help with this verse.  If God hated Esau, is it correct to say that he could hate me? Especially if I have fallen back into a sin nature?  (actually, it's my husband, he keeps bringing up Esau)  I don't know how to help him anymore.

Thanks,
HIC Huh
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 10:26:20 AM »

Hi HIC,

Paul is referencing Mal 1: 2-3 here. The word hate has a rather strong meaning as we know it today. The original words in Hebrew and Greek that were used in these verses also was used in the context of less favorite or less loved. It would be better understood to say that He will accept who He will and to reject who He will.

What Paul is talking about in Romans 9 is that God has rejected those that are following after the law, wishing to remain under the law and has accepted those ( the Gentiles) "which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith." He has rejected them because they rejected Him and His grace and do not follow after Him. (Rom 9:30 - 32 )

The Lord does not reject those that truly seek Him and want Him.

Luk 11:9  And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luk 11:10  For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 10:21:06 AM »

Great answer!
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Tim

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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 10:28:43 AM »

AMEN Brother Roger.

This is the explanation according to Barnes.

Verse 13.  As it is written. Mal 1:2,3. That is, the distribution of favours is on the principle advanced by the prophet, and is in accordance with the declaration that God had, in fact, loved the one and hated the other.
 
  Jacob. This refers, doubtless, to the posterity of Jacob.
 
  Have I loved. I have shown affection for that people; I have bestowed on them great privileges and blessings, as proofs of attachment. I have preferred Jacob to Esau.
 
  Esau. The descendants of Esau, the Edomites. See Mal 1:4.
 
  Have I hated. This does not mean any positive hatred; but that he had preferred Jacob, and had withheld from Esau those privileges and blessings which he had conferred on the posterity of Jacob. This is explained in Mal 1:3, "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness," Comp. Jer 49:17,18; Eze 35:3. It was common among the Hebrews to use the terms love and hatred in this comparative sense, where the former implied strong positive attachment, and the latter, not positive hatred, but merely as a less love, or the withholding of the expressions of affection. Comp. Ge 29:30,31; Pr 13:24. "He that spareth his rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." Mt 6:24. "No man can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other," etc. Lu 14:26, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother," etc.
 
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PS 91:2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in Him will I trust
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 05:43:33 PM »

Looked at it and would also agree .
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 09:37:02 AM »

Hi everyone.

I need help with this verse.  If God hated Esau, is it correct to say that he could hate me? Especially if I have fallen back into a sin nature?  (actually, it's my husband, he keeps bringing up Esau)  I don't know how to help him anymore.

Thanks,
HIC Huh

Hello HIC....I see you originally posted this back in Fenbuary.   Not sure if you're still around, but I was wondering if you could expound this a bit more, and what is happening with your husband.

Blessings!
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Tim

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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 12:43:33 PM »

Husband got saved in 93.  Lived a close walk with the lord until he got sick in nov 05.  Been praying for his healing, and its slow coming.  Anyway, with him being sick, his guard has been down, and with not reading, praying and such like he did before, the one thing in his past that he had a problem with has come back 10 fold and he is having problems with it.  He feels like if God "hated" Esau, then He (God) could also "hate" him, too.  Because as he says, he knows the word.  But I have run out of patience.  Somedays its like arguing with a brick wall.  (Anybody know what I mean Shocked)  On top of all of this, he slipped and did something not really "bad" but some people took it wrong, and now we don't have a church to go to.  And hubby feels bad about this too.  But I was with him when he prayed for forgiveness for that, and I know that he has repented over that issue.  Long story.  How can one feel God's forgiveness, when the world (Christians, church family) won't give it?

Thanks all for your replies to my question, the answer helped me if no one else!
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 01:22:39 PM »

Quote
How can one feel God's forgiveness, when the world (Christians, church family) won't give it?

That is indeed a problem that many have. This is why it is so important that we understand it is not about feelings because our feelings can be deceptive to us. This is what is meant by coming into the knowledge of His saving grace.

Sister, none of us are perfect and we all are inclined to unknowingly or inadvertantly slip back into sin. This is why God shows us in the Lord's prayer that we are to ask for forgiveness when we pray. God is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins.

As for not having a church ...  if you are not able to find one that you are comfortable with or that is willing to accept you then rest assured that both of you are welcome here. We are open daily, 24 hours a day and all that are seeking Him or wanting to grow in Christ are most welcome.

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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 03:10:51 PM »

How would your husband answer these verses?


Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.



The story of Job is also a good candidate for study here.   Gods love towards us is not based on specific material, or physical blessings.   Its based on Gods willingness to die in our stead.  He's already shown us the depth of His love.

When Jesus was beaten, they say that type of beating is essentially impossible to withstand without fainting, becoming unconscious, or even dying.   It wasn't so much a remarkable thing that Jesus never fell unconscious or fainted....whats truly remarkable is that He willingly SUBMITTED to it for US.  And, For your Husband!  Run this by him and see how he responds.


I would also venture to guess, that this ordeal is probably testing your faith as well?  Its important to remember that Jesus never promised us perfect health, worldly wealth, or utmost happiness regarding things in this life.   In fact, we are told to expect trials, temptation, and even persecution that will test our faith.   

In spite of this...scripture also says...

Rom 8:35  Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36  Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
Rom 8:37  But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
Rom 8:38  For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39  nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Surely your husband has lost his way in light of such powerful words from the Lord.   Sister, I encourage you to allow this time to bring you closer to the Lord.  I'm sure you are frustrated beyond end...but God knows where you are...He knows what you are going through.   Seek His face in this matter, and allow Him to light your path during this dark time.  HE WILL lead you, if you follow...and He is with you always! 

I will be praying for both YOU and your Husband.


As Pastor Roger says, we are here to help in any way that we can sister.  If your husband is able, invite him to join us as well.  We would be more than happy to fellowship with him too!

Blessings!
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Tim

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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2007, 11:51:31 PM »

Remember church is a hospital for Christians... not a place for Christians to show how good they are. 
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2007, 03:41:41 PM »

Still praying with you, and for you and your husband HIC.


Psa 139:11  If I say, "Surely the darkness will overwhelm me, And the light around me will be night,"
Psa 139:12  Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You.
Psa 139:13  For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.
Psa 139:14  I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.


Blessings!
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Tim

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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2007, 04:15:40 PM »

Fellow brothers and sisters.   Would you all join me in lifting this situation up in prayer?   This keeps coming to heart for me, and I am reminded of....

Gal 6:2  Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.


Please join me as a group in adding this to your prayer list for this sister and her husband. Lets lift this up before the Lord.   All things are possible through Christ Jesus!


Blessings!
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Tim

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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2007, 05:28:09 PM »

Amen, this couple are still on my prayer list.

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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2007, 11:37:50 AM »

Thank you all for remembering us in prayer.  We are still looking for a church to attend, but its hard to do in a small town.  We are looking for one that will work for all of us, the kids, and Terry and I.  I have a strong hunger for God and all that He has for me, and I want to keep learning.  And I want to find a spiritual church. 

Terry is doing a little better spiritually.  He still has days where he doesn't feel forgiven, usually when he sees someone involved with his "problem" .  But I think that is to be expected for sometime. 

His health is another issue.  We thought maybe he was getting some better, but he is not.  The chest pain is getting worse, with the pounding of his heart getting to be more of a bother at rest.   He has an appt with the dr. tomorrow, and I pray that they can do something for him then.

Thanks again for thinking of us during this time of turmoil.

May God Bless each one who comes through here today!

HeavenIC Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2007, 02:12:16 PM »

Quote
He still has days where he doesn't feel forgiven, usually when he sees someone involved with his "problem"

I can relate to this.  There's days when I don't "feel" forgiven either.  Thank God its not based on what we feel   Smiley   1Jo 1:9


Keep us posted....we're here for you!
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Tim

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