Stubborness = Pride

[brad5]

Hello all!

I am surprisingly very happy right now. 

So, as most know, I've been very stubborn lately when it comes to God and salvation. Well, I've been reaching out to all sorts of wonderful people (the posters of this forum included) about my problem. Everyone's said the same thing: I'm rejecting God.

Now, as most of you may not know, I've also been struggling with doubts to God's existence as well. My pride was getting to me. I kept telling myself I must know for sure. That's not how it works. I've also been reaching out to people about this problem as well -- My "I must know everything" pride.

Well, a gentleman from another forum I visit gave me a link to a website that talked about: A) "the heart of a child" which further talks about how a person who wants to know Jesus, must, with God's grace, come to Him with the heart of a child, being careful of who they trust. And B) The trustworthiness of Jesus Christ. And if Jesus is in fact completely trustworthy, then He is in fact the Son of God, and did come back to life thanks to God.... and you can't be the Son of God if God doesn't exist, now can you!? Therefore, God exists, despite me (and everyone else) not having a complete logical understanding of Him, and how He works.


Now, I understood (for a lack of a better term) how God reveals Himself. That didn't mean I was through with my stubborness.

However, this morning before going to Church, I recieved an Email from a friend that talked about just that -- stubborness (and more specifically, stubborness as it relates to God). To put it simply, the Email explained how stubborness is a pride thing even though it may not seem like it.

So, here I am, having figured out that they key to finding God is to humble myself before Jesus and ask for a heart of a child, and obey Him. Stubborness, which is my main struggle, is related to pride (and pride keeps people from finding God in the first place). Therefore, the key to stubborness is the same key that helped me with my doubts -- humility.

I'd like to thank everyone for all their prayers and help through my struggles. I admit I'm still struggling a bit with my stubborness, but I'm praying hard and have a sense of hope now-- for I can not do anything of myself, and I need God's help.

[nChrist]

Hello Brad,

I'm very happy to hear this, and I give thanks that things are working out for you. All of mankind has a problem with stubbornness and pride many times in life, so you've had tons of company. The Bible does speak of a childlike faith as being wonderful, and it is developed in many things much less worthy than CHRIST as we grow up. As an example, a small child usually develops a faith that their parents will feed them when they are hungry. Hopefully, this will turn out to be true, but the point is that mankind many times fails and breaks many promises. Our Lord and Saviour is worthy of 100% trust, never fails, and always keeps HIS Promises.

Christians develop a personal relationship and fellowship with JESUS CHRIST, and the absolute reality grows stronger and more mature by the day if we do our part. HE always does HIS part. This is why you will hear more mature Christians speak about absolute TRUTHS and REALITIES that they know - not just feel. JESUS wants to have a close and personal relationship with us, but HE doesn't force it. Bible study and prayer is just the beginning. I will pray that 2007 becomes a time of new life for you in JESUS CHRIST.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:16-18 NASB  The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

[Mtnpreacher]

Sometimes I think "stubborness" and "pride" are two different things. But I see your point, they really aren't.  

I have been struggling with both for sometime.  I was done wrong by, of all people, a couple of preacher friends of mine.  I feel like both of them violated the teachings of Scripture by doing things the way they did regarding me.  Mind you, I am not saying that "WHAT" they did was wrong, but the WAY they did it was according to the Bible.

 Neither of these two men has ever even offered to apologize for their actions and I doubt that they ever will.The fact still remains that, from a Scriptural standpoint, they were both clearly wrong, not because I said so, but because God said so.

Instead of letting it go and forgetting about it, I keep ruminating on it in my mind and out loud at times when I am alone.  I know it is wrong to do this but no matter what I do, it seems I can't shake it.  It just won't go away and is beginning to really annoy me.

I have attempted to make things right with both men on my end.  There were somethings that I did which were wrong and I have admitted them and asked forgiveness.  I know that I should forgive them as well but neither of them has ever admitted any wrong or made any attempt to make things right with me.  

I have prayed about it and talked to my pastor about this situation.  Still it eats at me. Is this pride?  Am I being stubborn?    I'm the one who was hurt not the one who did the hurting.  I am the one who has tried to make things right not the one who needed to.

What do you think?

[Soldier4Christ]

Perhaps it is the stubborn fleshy side, the pride. From what you have said I get the impression that it is because you feel wronged and they refuse to apologize. It is that which you need to deal with. "I apologized but they didn't" feeling. Their lack of apology is something they will have to face when they come face to face with our Lord. It is not for us to worry about but rather we need to be most concerned with the condition of our own hearts in such a situation as this. We need to be most concerned with doing what is right in the eyes of the Lord and let Him deal with the hearts of others.

Also consider that a person that is willing to forgive in their hearts and not just in word is a more wonderful testimony to our Lord and Saviour. Our forgiving from our hearts is more edifying for all.

[Mtnpreacher]

Once again, I think you're right.  I was really hurt by the way things were done.  The thing that hurt me most was the fact that the people who did it, in my opinion, should have known better. 

Some things were said that should not have been said.  Some outright lies were told on me. The whole thing was done in a way that was unbiblical and just plain wrong.  I admit that I over reacted in a way.  I didn't say or do anything outrageous or public, but I was very hurt. 

You're correct, I should just let it go and move on.  I should leave it up to the Lord to judge.  I know that he will and he will do a far better job than I could do. 

This thing happened nearly three years ago and it still hurts.  I have tried to let it go.  I have tried to forget it and move on, but everyday something seems to happen that reminds me.  Thoughts come into my mind out of nowhere and before long, I am reliving it all over again.

How do you change your mind when something like this happens?  When does it stop hurting? 

[Soldier4Christ]

Remembering the situation is not necessarily a bad thing. Forgetting and forgiving is two separate things. We should take those negative experiences and turn them into a positive. God does this many times, using sinful bad situations for a positive outcome. Personally I remember such things in order to not treat others in a like manner. As for the hurting ... I give that to God and remembering all the hurt that He went through on the cross because of us and our sins. He was rejected, ridiculed, falsely accused and died. Imagine the hurt both physical and emotional. It makes whatever I have to go through seem so very insignificant and easier to bare.

[Mtnpreacher]

You're right again.  I know that is what I should do, but it seems that I am constantly reminded of this incident.   I really was badly hurt in more ways than one and the worst thing was that it was a "pastor" that did it to me.

I have always held preachers in very high regard as men of integrity and honesty.  They have sort of been my "heros" if you will.  That makes it more difficult to just let go of this and made it hurt all the more.  I know that they are only human and that none of us is perfect, but still, I think that a preacher, should have known and done better than the way things were handled.

Mtnpreacher

[Soldier4Christ]

I do fully understand. Many have stumbled because of pastors making such mistakes. Some have refused to come to the Lord because of such things happening also. It is one of the trials that people must face.

[Mtnpreacher]

Pastor Roger:

Thank you for your advice.  I am going to take it to heart.  I cannot keep on holding this thing.  It is destroying my life. 

 I think that part of the problem is the "touch not the Lord's annointed" syndrome, as I call it, among certain preachers.  I have confronted ( in private) both of these men with this issue.  The only results I get are angry words about my "questioning" their authority and that is part of the reason that I feel the way I do.

 It is not that I disagree with "what they did", they had every right to do that if that is what they thought needed to be done.  But it's the WAY in which it was done and the attitude that says "I am God's man, therefore, you should not question any decision I make or the way I carry it out" that really bothers me.  I am sorry, but preachers are not perfect, they do make mistakes and do wrong things inspite of their being "spiritually in tune" with God.

When they do something wrong, they are just as wrong as any one else and they should admit to it and ask forgiveness of the person they offended or hurt.  I have yet to see one do this in my short life of 45 years other than certain televangelists that we know of.

See, there I go again.  It just irritates me to no end.  I know that God has a reason for all that He allows.  I know that He speaks through both his WORD and his PEOPLE (i.e. preachers and other Christians).  Preachers are to be respected as the ministers of God, but they are HUMAN.  Nothing more. Nothing less.  Just like all of the rest of us, they are "sinners saved by grace" but some of them just don't seem to see it that way.  They become frustrated and angry when confronted with their mistakes even if it is done in the right way.  Not all preachers are this way thankfully, but, unfortunately for me, most of the ones I have had contact with have been, myself included.  I know that sounds like the "pot calling the kettle black" but it is true.  I do tend to be this way as well.

[Soldier4Christ]

You're most welcome, brother.

That is what is meant by "being in the flesh". As long as we are here "in the flesh" we will all make mistakes. It is also the reason that we are told to keep our eyes on Jesus and not on man. All of God's children are equal in His eyes. God is not a respecter of persons. Yes, a pastor is to feed Jesus' sheep but that is the key. They are still His sheep not those of the pastor's. They are to be led in God's way not the pastor's way. As a leader it can be a difficult thing to remain humble, to remember that we are all brothers and sisters and that there is only one Head to the Body.