Sabbath Day

[Jabez]

Which is the sabbath day to GOD?The seventh day?Lets not just say saturday, because mans calendar says saturday is the seventh?As i posted in another thread i keep sunday as the sabbath,thats always been the day i was raised to keep.How do ya'll feel about this?What day do you keep as the sabbath?
                           * Definitions*
1.thefreedictionary
**Sabbath
Sab´bath n. 1. A season or day of rest; one day in seven appointed for rest or worship, the observance of which was enjoined upon the Jews in the Decalogue, and has been continued by the Christian church with a transference of the day observed from the last to the first day of the week, which is called also Lord's Day.

2.wordreference
**Sabbath ['sæbəθ]
noun
1   the seventh day of the week, Saturday, devoted to worship and rest from work in Judaism and in certain Christian Churches
 
2   Sunday, observed by Christians as the day of worship and rest from work in commemoration of Christ's Resurrection
 
3   [not cap]  a period of rest
 
4   Also called: sabbat, witches' Sabbath  a midnight meeting or secret rendezvous for practitioners of witchcraft, sorcery, or devil worship
[ETYMOLOGY: Old English sabbat, from Latin sabbatum, from Greek sabbaton, from Hebrew shabbath, from shabath to rest]

3.brainydictionary
**Sabbath
(n.) A season or day of rest; one day in seven appointed for rest or worship, the observance of which was enjoined upon the Jews in the Decalogue, and has been continued by the Christian church with a transference of the day observed from the last to the first day of the week, which is called also Lord's Day.

[Petro]

Of course the Sabaath Day to God is the Seventh Day.

However, I also pointed out that in the Law of Moses there were other Sabaaths, ordained of God by the mouth of Moses.

I posted this in another thread and never got much of an answer.

Maybe someone can answer this very question, I believe it would shed light on your question.

"According to the scriptures Jesus ate the passover supper with His disciples (Mat 26:18) in the evening (Mat 26:20) upon finishing the supper and drinking from the fruit of the cup, departed to the Mt of Olives to a place called Gethsemane, where Judas betrayed Him with a kiss and delivered him up, the same day he was crucified, this leaves no doubt it had to be the sixth day.

I was wondering if anybody had an insight into, Jhn 18

26  One of the servants of the high priest, being his kinsman whose ear Peter cut off, saith, Did not I see thee in the garden with him?
27  Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.
28  Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.


Note that these chief rulers, did not want to defile themselves, this is the reason why they did not enter into the judgment hall, but that they might eat the passover.

The passover is to be kept the evening of the14th day of the first month, this was established by the Lord and given to Moses to give to the people as an ordinance (Ex 12:5-6,14) to be kept forever.

Why where this men observing passover on the 15th day of the month??

It is plain from the passage, it was already early morning, and passover was ending, (the cock had crowed), hardly any time to kill a lamb and eat the whole passover lamb, with ones family.

Any comments would be appreaciated.........."


Blessings,

Petro

[Heidi]

I think it's important to remember what the meaning of the law is as opposed to keeping the "letter" of the law. God simply told us that we need a day of rest, and a day devoted to Him. As long as we understand His intent by it and honor it, I don't think it makes a difference which specific day it is. Otherwise, we would be under the law again like the Pharisees were. Since Christ died, the law is for our benefit, rather than our bondage.

[Petro]

Actually I withdraw my question of the first post here.

I was just looking in Lev 23 at verses 6 thru 16, it states the the feat of unleavened bread begins on the fifteenth day of the same month (nissan) and it is seven days which are called Sabbaths.

So Jesus then would have risen in the early hours the eve of the sixteenth day of Nissan.  The third day.

Now, this would not affect what was ordained with regard to the orginal Sabbath Day of Rest.

Except I do agree with Heidi, these ordinances concerning feat days were done away with in Christ.




Thanks,

Petro

[ElmerGlue]

This is my very first submission, so if I did not follow proper forum etiquette, I apologize.

Of course the Sabaath Day to God is the Seventh Day.

However, I also pointed out that in the Law of Moses there were other Sabaaths, ordained of God by the mouth of Moses.

1. Right on. There is little doubt that God thinks that any other day besides the seventh is the weekly Sabbath.
2.  God's Holy Days were considered sabbaths, like in this example speaking about the Feast of Trumpets:

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first [day] of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

....
I posted this in another thread and never got much of an answer.

Maybe someone can answer this very question, I believe it would shed light on your question.

"According to the scriptures Jesus ate the passover supper with His disciples (Mat 26:18) in the evening (Mat 26:20) upon finishing the supper and drinking from the fruit of the cup, departed to the Mt of Olives to a place called Gethsemane, where Judas betrayed Him with a kiss and delivered him up, the same day he was crucified, this leaves no doubt it had to be the sixth day.
....

1. Jesus ate this "new testament passover" as some call it a day before the Jews ate theirs. You'll notice in the scriptures preceeding that the Israelites kept the lamb till the 14th and then ate it that *night*, which would really be the 15th, being the first day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (since in God's eyes the days begin at even and end at even) per Lev 23:6.

    Exd 12:5   Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take [it] out from the sheep, or from the goats:  
    Exd 12:6   And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.  
    Exd 12:7   And they shall take of the blood, and strike [it] on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.  
    Exd 12:8   And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; [and] with bitter [herbs] they shall eat it.  

2. Now if you take what you already know about Gods Holy Days being "sabbaths", then what Petro refers to as 'no doubt it had to be the sixth day' could potentially fall on any day of the week, because the Passover day moved around from year to year (speaking only from a position of what day of the week it fell on) by knowing that the next day was a "sabbath" :

Mar 15:42   And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,  
Mar 15:43   Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.  

Which could mean "weekly sabbath" or "holy day sabbath".

...
I was wondering if anybody had an insight into, Jhn 18

26  One of the servants of the high priest, being his kinsman whose ear Peter cut off, saith, Did not I see thee in the garden with him?
27  Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.
28  Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

Note that these chief rulers, did not want to defile themselves, this is the reason why they did not enter into the judgment hall, but that they might eat the passover.

The passover is to be kept the evening of the14th day of the first month, this was established by the Lord and given to Moses to give to the people as an ordinance (Ex 12:5-6,14) to be kept forever.

Why where this men observing passover on the 15th day of the month??

1. The Passover was not a sabbath per Lev 23:4-5. On the other hand, the next day, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, was a Sabbath and a 'high day' (john 19:31).

Jhn 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.  

2. These men (the Pharisees) were eating the Passover on the 15th just as the Israelites did on that first Passover. If you will read the above quotations from Gen 12:5-8, they killed the Passover on the 14th, and then ate it that night which would consequently be the 15th.

...
It is plain from the passage, it was already early morning, and passover was ending, (the cock had crowed), hardly any time to kill a lamb and eat the whole passover lamb, with ones family.
...

1.   I don't think one could say that Passover was ending because Passover was a whole day, so that morning when the cock crowed, that was still the 14th.

The beauty of this is that when Christ died being crucified to death, this was the same time the Passover Lamb was being killed. How beautiful God works his plan out!

I also have a question for Heidi.
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by keeping 'the meaning of the law' versus keeping 'the letter of the law' and which 'law' are you referring to. Since this particular thread is about the Sabbath, does this mean we are, as Christians, to observe the 'no servile work therein?'

[Petro]

elmerglus's reply #4

1. Jesus ate this "new testament passover" as some call it a day before the Jews ate theirs. You'll notice in the scriptures preceeding that the Israelites kept the lamb till the 14th and then ate it that *night*, which would really be the 15th, being the first day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (since in God's eyes the days begin at even and end at even) per Lev 23:6.

elmer,

Greeting's, sorry I hadn't had an opportunity to answer your post, due to time constraints and matters I had been tending to..

I have read your post, and feel that most important thing to addrees first is, your explanation of the keeping of the passover on the "14 day of Nissan" as commanded in Lev 23.

It is inconsistant to say the they kept the passover if they ate it on the 15th day, what, or how is it, you believe they kept the passover a totally separate feats day from the feats days that followed, one day later which would be the beging of a new feast of seven days, if you go back to Leviticus and read it very carefully, you will see, the the feast of unleavened brerad begins on the 15th day of the same month and lasts seven (sabbath) days, please focus on verse 5 and 6.

By adding 1 passover sabbath day to 7 unleavened bread sabbath days, we have a total of 8 sabbath days begining with the 14th day of the month of Nissan.

The scriptures at Heb 3,4:10, speak of another day with regards to the rest of the people of God.

Jesus arose on the first day of the week, could this be the new Sabbath??

Then we can consider the rest of your post..to see hows it adds up.

Thanks

Petro

[Petro]

A point I missed, and that is that no meat or greens are commanded to eaten during the seven feast days begining on the 1q5th day.

Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable can shed light on this matter..

Petro

[Allinall]

Perhaps this may help to understand the timing, as well as the sacrifice of Passover...

First of all, what was the Passover?  For one, it was a remembrance of God's deliverance of the nation of Israel from bondage in Egypt.  Moreover, it was a picture of what was to come - or rather Who.  For example, the man of the house would choose for his family 7 days prior to the sacrifice a spotless lamb.  The family would set this lamb aside from the others, would care for it explicitly, would come to care for it and be attached to this lamb - all the while understanding what was to become of it.  On the day of sacrifice, the man would bring his lamb to the temple.  When his time came, he would place the lamb on the ground, and lean over the lamb, on to the lamb, placing his weight on the lamb.  A very picturesque manner of showing his dependence on the sacrifice about to be made.  Then the priest would slit the throat of the lamb.  The lamb would collapse with its owner falling atop of it.  Another priest would then receive the spilt blood into a bowl.  That blood would be thrown on the side of the altar, and the sacrifice would be complete apart from the portioning of the lamb, and the feast to follow.  Now, as a side note, consider this in perspective.  There would have been thousands of Jewish males in Jerusalem for this sacrifice.  The sacrifice would have taken the day - or more specifically between the hours of 9:00 am and 3:00 pm, as set by the Law.  Moreover, it would have been a bloody mess.  Thousands of slain lambs, an altar covered in blood, priests sprayed by the blood splattered on the altar, men covered in the blood of their own sacrifice upon falling atop of their lambs.  God was making a very real point.  Sin costs blood.  And until God made His Passover sacrifice, it would be so.

Now, it is important to understand with this in mind, that Jesus was that Passover sacrifice.  It is also interesting to note that He went to the cross at 9:00 am and died at 3:00 pm.  What's more, as He was suffering on the cross for the sins of us all, the priests would have been slitting lambs throats, catching the blood, and throwing it against the altar for the forgiveness of Israel's sin.  While they did this, the Lamb stood before the Father, was "leaned" on by the sins of mankind, and was slain.  That blood was eternally sufficient.  No more sacrifice was needed.  How do we know this practically?  At the time of His death, the veil was torn from top to bottom.  The perfect sacrifice to bring man into a right relationship with God had been made, received, and accepted.  That just chills me to think about.

Now, for this to be...the timing would be consistent with the process.  Hopefully this helps.  

 

[ElmerGlue]

I have to say, Petro, I enjoy reasoning from the scriptures with you. It seems I am always replying to a "Petro" entry. You seem very knowledgeable, and I thank you for participating in this forum.

It is inconsistant to say the they kept the passover if they ate it on the 15th day, what, or how is it, you believe they kept the passover a totally separate feats day from the feats days that followed, one day later which would be the beging of a new feast of seven days, if you go back to Leviticus and read it very carefully, you will see, the the feast of unleavened brerad begins on the 15th day of the same month and lasts seven (sabbath) days, please focus on verse 5 and 6.

By adding 1 passover sabbath day to 7 unleavened bread sabbath days, we have a total of 8 sabbath days begining with the 14th day of the month of Nissan.

Why is that strange that there should be a seperate Feast one day right after the other, how is that inconsistant. As my earlier post said, the Children of Israel ate the lamb in the night of the 15th (which yes, would have been the 1st day of Unleavened Bread), right after they killed the lamb in the evening on the 14th. Your post is somewhat confusing in that you are saying it does not make sense the Passover is before Unleavened Bread, but how else can it be. I am not sure of the point you are trying to make. Let me put up the scripture you said to read carefully, and tell me where I am going astray.

Lev 23:5   In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.  
    Lev 23:6   And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.  

Now maybe the confusion is coming from when you eat the passover. The Passover service was that service that Allinall seemed to describe very thoroughly. Now when you eat the passover as it says in Exodus...

   Exd 12:6   And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.  
    Exd 12:7   And they shall take of the blood, and strike [it] on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.  
    Exd 12:8   And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; [and] with bitter [herbs] they shall eat it.  

Am I reading this wrong? It seems at least that they ate that "night of the 14th", but in God's eyes, that of course was the 15th (because the new day begins at sundown).


And as to the idea that Unleavened bread is seven sabbaths, please read the note I left on the "3 days and 3 Nights" post concerning Pentecost/The Feast of First Fruits.

....
The scriptures at Heb 3,4:10, speak of another day with regards to the rest of the people of God.

Jesus arose on the first day of the week, could this be the new Sabbath??
...

Whoa, I never heard this before. Please explain what you mean by a 'new Sabbath.' If God changed the sabbath from the Seventh Day to the First, then that is pretty important (expecially since the Sabbath and His Holy Days were a perpetual (forever) covenant with God's people). Please elaborate, especially since this what this post is all about.

[John the Baptist]

Just thought that you might find this of interest?
______________________

Quote:
then we see another guy when he is posting up, the poor chap, gets hammered?  


Well some chaps are like like a poorly burned CD-R playing a low quality mp3 ripped from a corrupted .wav file of a bad country and western song taken from an already broken record. record. record. record. record. record. record...  

What gets raked over here is content-based. Usually a lack of content or terribly incomplete, one-sided, indefensible content.

Quote:
It sure sounds like some on here have no real desire of wanting to hear the Masters Words of.. "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMANTS"


I don't think anyone here questions that Jesus said that. And certainly none of us begrudge Him saying it. But so far no one has shown us where Jesus insisted we keep the orignal sabbath or were bound by the Law. Instead, He summed up the new law for us in two commands. Love God- Love each other. And that, to me, is black and white. (And red in some cases...  )

Quote:
Anyway, thanks, & in all sincerity, the [one post ]here, is a good one!


No problem. Same to you.  


*****
Just a couple quickies! ,

There are two tables of stone, i think that most would agree to this? Have you ever tried to understand the division of these from the ten? Two commandments, yet one Covenant. (Heb. 13:20) Something like Ten links of [one] chain. James states if one 'link' is broken the 'chain' is BROKEN! James 2:8-12. How would one feel hanging from any mountain top by that 10 linked chain & then see satan's helper (?) cutting out any one link??  

(Hay, i am not talking of the ones Moses wrote in a book & put in the [side] of the Ark! Deut. 31)

My thinking is about the Rev. 11:19 'testament' in the heavenly 'Ark'.
Or the LETTER OF CHRIST CHARACTER as seen in 2 Cor. 3:3's ones.

Perhaps you cannot agree with my thinking on that ? Anyway, try to divide the ten up into [just] two tables when you have some extra time.
Rom. 13 might be of help?
_________________
"I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGHT CHRIST WHICH STRENGTHENETH ME" Phil. 4:13

"MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEE, FOR MY STRENGTH IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS" 2 Cor. 12:9

I believe His Word! Pastor N.B.

[ElmerGlue]

...
Quote:
It sure sounds like some on here have no real desire of wanting to hear the Masters Words of.. "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMANTS"


I don't think anyone here questions that Jesus said that. And certainly none of us begrudge Him saying it. But so far no one has shown us where Jesus insisted we keep the orignal sabbath or were bound by the Law. Instead, He summed up the new law for us in two commands. Love God- Love each other. And that, to me, is black and white. (And red in some cases...  )
...

Dear JtB,

These next posts could go off on a million different sub-topics pertaining to God's Law and Jesus's Law as you have sub-divided, but I have to ask you, if we love God, what are the things we do for him, for we are certainly never saved by works through God's grace, but what is our 'resonable service' to be a servent of God. ( I have read your posts before about works and grace, and if I remember correctly you firmly believe that there are certain things a Christian should do, for "faith is dead without works" and so on...)

Rom 12:1   I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Is the Sabbath important anymore? I do believe it is. We could go into the whole "no jot nor tittle," but what about the description of the Sabbath back in Exodus...

Exd 31:16   Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.  
Exd 31:17   It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.  

If it was perpetual, then it was forever. How is a major thing like the Sabbath, the day God Himself rested from his creation, 'get fulfilled' by Jesus's Death? There is no doubt that he fulfilled prophesy by dieing, but how can one say he fulfilled the Sabbath which is a sign for his people. Yes, the two commandments you mentioned are the two big commandments, but you forgot the next verse of that quote:

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I think if anything, by Jesus coming to the earth he made the Law (part of which is the Ten Commandments) enriched, to make it ever more applicable...just like the example he gave about thinking about another Man's wife is a sin, even if you do not "do" it.

Jesus may fulfill the Sabbath one day, when there is no need to distinguish his people (the Sabbath distinguished the Israelites from the rest of the nations back then) - who knows, but just as Jesus said to follow his example, he taught at the synogogue on the Sabbath... it was his custom, and I am moved to follow that.

John the Baptist, I dont want to argue, I want to discuss and reason out of the Word of God. I do believe Jesus changed the law, but not in that it does not apply to us (by fulfilling or not), but in that it applies to us even more.

Peace
Jason

[Petro]

I think if anything, by Jesus coming to the earth he made the Law (part of which is the Ten Commandments) enriched, to make it ever more applicable...just like the example he gave about thinking about another Man's wife is a sin, even if you do not "do" it.

Jesus may fulfill the Sabbath one day, when there is no need to distinguish his people (the Sabbath distinguished the Israelites from the rest of the nations back then) - who knows, but just as Jesus said to follow his example, he taught at the synogogue on the Sabbath... it was his custom, and I am moved to follow that.

Peace
Jason

Jason,

I now you already know, that Jesus said;

Mat 5
17   Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


And as you said the law is fulfilled when the royal law is observed, that of loving the Lord your God, and loving your neighbor as yourself.

Bearing one anothers burdens, fulfil the law of Christ according to Galatians 6:2.

Jesus is Lord of the  Sabbath (Mat 12:

Our sabbath is a day which will be evident when the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: (2 Pet 1:19)


Blessings,

Petro

[Allinall]

Under the Law there was a day set apart for the people to worship.  Under grace there is a people set apart for a lifetime.  

[nChrist]

Under the Law there was a day set apart for the people to worship.  Under grace there is a people set apart for a lifetime.  

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

AMEN! Brother. This is only part of the JOY in the GOOD NEWS of the GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. Yes, God's children can fellowship with Jesus 365/24/7 during this short life on earth. Yes, God's children have the Holy Spirit living in their hearts as a SEAL OF THE PROMISE of ETERNAL LIFE IN GLORY WITH OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST.

Yes, God's children are set apart forever!

Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT!

In Christ,
Tom

[Brother Love]

Under the Law there was a day set apart for the people to worship.  Under grace there is a people set apart for a lifetime.  

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

AMEN! Brother. This is only part of the JOY in the GOOD NEWS of the GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. Yes, God's children can fellowship with Jesus 365/24/7 during this short life on earth. Yes, God's children have the Holy Spirit living in their hearts as a SEAL OF THE PROMISE of ETERNAL LIFE IN GLORY WITH OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST.

Yes, God's children are set apart forever!

Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT!

In Christ,
Tom

Short but sweet Brother BEP, Amen

Brother Love