Endless Punishment

[Soldier4Christ]

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."
Luke 12:5


Endless Punishment 

A sober look at the eternal torment of those who reject Jesus Christ as Savior.

The strongest support of the doctrine of Endless Punishment is the teaching of Christ, the Redeemer of man. Though the doctrine is plainly taught in the Pauline Epistles, and other parts of Scripture, yet without the explicit and reiterated statements of God incarnate, it is doubtful whether so awful a truth would have had such a conspicuous place as it always has had in the creed of Christendom.

If, in spite of that large mass of positive and solemn threatening of everlasting punishment from the lips of Jesus Christ, which is recorded in the four Gospels, the attempt has nevertheless been made to prove that the tenet is not an integral part of the Christian system, we may be certain that had this portion of revelation been wanting, this attempt would have been much more frequent, and much more successful.

The Apostles enter far less into detailed description, and are far less emphatic upon this solemn theme, than their divine Lord and Master. And well they might be. For as none but God has the right, and would dare, to sentence a soul to eternal misery, for sin; and as none but God has the right, and would dare, to execute the sentence; so none but God has the right, and should presume, to delineate the nature and consequences of this sentence.

This is the reason why most of the awful imagery in which the sufferings of the lost are described is found in the discourses of our Lord and Saviour. He took it upon himself to sound the note of warning. He, the Judge of quick and dead, assumed the responsibility of teaching the doctrine of Endless Retribution. "I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." "Nothing," says Dr. Arnold, "is more striking to me, than our Lord's own description of the judgment. It is so inexpressibly forcible, coming from his very own lips, as descriptive of what he himself would do" (Stanley's Life of Arnold, I. 176).

Christ could not have warned men so frequently and earnestly as he did against "the fire that never shall be quenched," and "the worm that dieth not," had he known that there is no future peril fully corresponding to them. That omniscient Being who made the statements respecting the day of judgment, and the final sentence, that are recorded in Matthew 25:31-46, could neither have believed nor expected that all men without exception will eventually be holy and happy.

To threaten with "everlasting punishment" a class of persons described as "goats upon the left hand" of the Eternal Judge, while knowing at the same time that this class would ultimately have the same holiness and happiness with those described as "sheep upon the right hand" of the Judge, would have been both falsehood and folly. The threatening would have been false.

For even a long punishment in the future world would not have justified Christ in teaching that this class of mankind are to experience the same retribution with "the devil and his angels"; for these were understood by the Jews, to whom he spoke, to be hopelessly and eternally lost spirits. And the threatening would have been foolish, because it would have been a brutum fulmen , an exaggerated danger, certainly in the mind of its author. And for the persons threatened, it would have been a terror only because they took a different view of it from what its author did they believing it to be true, and he knowing it to be false!

The mere perusal of Christ's words when he was upon earth, without note or comment upon them, will convince the unprejudiced that the Redeemer of sinners knew and believed, that for impenitent men and devils there is an endless punishment. We solicit a careful reading and pondering of the following well known passages:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory; and before him shall be gathered all nations; and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment" (Matthew 25:31-33,41,46).

"If thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43-48).

cont'd

[Soldier4Christ]

"What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? What is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?" (Mark 8:36; Luke 9:25).

"The rich man also died, and was buried, and in hell he lifted up his eyes being in torments" (Luke 16:22,23).

"Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28).

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41,42).

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?...Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:22,23).

"He that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God...Unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven" (Luke 12:9,10).

"Woe unto you, ye blind guides. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" (Matthew 23:16,33).

"Woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born" (Matthew 26:24).

"The Lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers" (Luke 12:46).

"He that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16).

"Thou Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell" (Matthew 11:23).

"At the end of the world, the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:49,50).

"Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come" (John 8:21).

"The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28,29).

To all this, add the description of the manner in which Christ will discharge the office of the Eternal Judge. John the Baptist represents him as one "whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12).

And Christ describes himself as a householder who will say to the reapers, "Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them" (Mattewh 13:30); as a fisherman casting a net into the sea, "and gathering of every kind: which, when it was full, he drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away" (Matthew 13:47,48); as the bridegroom who took the wise virgins "with him to the marriage," and shut the door upon the foolish (Matthew 25:10); and as the man travelling into a far country who delivered talents to his servants, and afterwards reckons with them, rewarding the "good and faithful," and casting the unprofitable servant into outer darkness, where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:19-30).

Let the reader now ask himself the question: Do these representations, and this phraseology, make the impression that the future punishment of sin is to be remedial and temporary ? Are they adapted to make this impression? Were they intended to make this impression? Is it possible to believe that that Holy and Divine Person who uttered these fearful and unqualified warnings, eighteen hundred years ago, respecting the destiny of wicked men and devils, knew that a time is coming when there will be no wicked men and devils in the universe of God, and no place of retributive torment?

Did Jesus of Nazareth hold an esoteric doctrine of hell, a different view of the final state of the wicked, from that which the common and natural understanding of his language would convey to his hearers, and has conveyed to the great majority of his readers in all time? Did he know that in the far-off future, a day will come when those tremendous scenes which he described, the gathering of all mankind, the separation of the evil from the good, the curse pronounced upon the former and the blessing upon the latter, will be looked back upon by all mankind as "an unsubstantial pageant faded," as a dream that is passed, and a watch in the night?

— By William G. T. Shed

[MusicMedic5150]

Amen to that Pastor Roger. I am glad to be saved and redeemed through the blood of Jesus Christ. I cannot think of any man that would not want his family and friends saved from eternal damnation!!! People if you know a loved one that is lost it must place a great burden on your shoulders to think of what will happen to them during the tribulation and eternally thereafter.. Get out and tell them about Jesus and save their SOUL!!!!!!

[Josprel]

Thanks for posting this fearful article by William G. T. Shed, Pastor Rogers.  After reading it, the only comment I can make is: "Redeemed, how I love to proclaim it!  Redeemed by the blood of the Lamb!"

Josprel

[Kryptid]

How exactly does this relate to apologetics? Forgive my ignorance if I've shown any.

I am a Christian, and I do believe the Bible, but I simply cannot wrap my head around the fact that God would punish someone infinitely for a finite number of sins. If you were God, would you punish someone that you loved forever? I've seen several potential explanations for why God is justified in punishing sinners forever, but none that I have yet read make sense to me.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I am confused.

[nChrist]

How exactly does this relate to apologetics? Forgive my ignorance if I've shown any.

I am a Christian, and I do believe the Bible, but I simply cannot wrap my head around the fact that God would punish someone infinitely for a finite number of sins. If you were God, would you punish someone that you loved forever? I've seen several potential explanations for why God is justified in punishing sinners forever, but none that I have yet read make sense to me.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I am confused.

Hello Kryptid,

This relates perfectly to "Apologetics" because the eternal fires of hell is what happens to those who reject JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour. GOD has provided a way for Salvation, and it's a FREE GIFT - JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS. Regarding the Will and Purpose of ALMIGHTY GOD, HE really isn't interested in our opinions about what HE should or should not do. ALMIGHTY GOD does as HE pleases in Heaven and on earth. HIS WILL BE DONE! - and it will be.

ALMIGHTY GOD is the RULER and CREATOR of the Universe. Mankind is a part of HIS CREATION, and HE has shown Great Grace, Love, and Mercy to us. However, this does not hint that ALMIGHTY GOD has infinite patience with disobedience and rejection by HIS Creation. There will come a time when ALMIGHTY GOD will pour out HIS Wrath on the evil of the earth, and it will be well-deserved. In fact, that time might be coming soon, and there won't be any acceptable excuses. Mankind has had over 2,000 years to let the absolute reality of JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS to sink in. Some have accepted JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour, and some have rejected HIM. The consequences, good or bad, are ETERNAL. It really doesn't matter to ALMIGHTY GOD whether men approve or disapprove of HIS WORD. HE is the CREATOR, and what men want or don't want is ZERO consideration to HIM. HIS WORD contains the blunt and whole TRUTH, and man can accept or reject it with already stated consequences. This isn't a matter to be lightly considered, and ALMIGHTY GOD won't be asking human beings to vote on what HE does or doesn't do.

All of future eternity for the lost and the saved is already foretold in the Holy Bible. The only surprises will involve the lost finding out that the Holy Bible is completely TRUE, and the knowledge that they should have paid more attention to the CREATOR while they had the chance.

Love in Christ,
Tom

GOOD NEWS!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

[Kryptid]

Man, with all of the colored font and capitalized words, it feels like you're kind of yelling at me. I hope you didn't intend it like that.

Of course God isn't going to ask us if what He does is okay with us. What concerns me is the fact that I can't reconcile how eternal punishment is good. If it is good, then there should be a way for me to understand it as such, and I'm looking for such an understanding here on this forum. If it isn't good, then somehow the Bible is flawed. Since no one wants to hear of that, then there must be some form of justification, and I want to know what it is so I can put my heart at ease and strengthen my faith.

I sometimes wonder why God even made mankind if He knew in advance that the majority of humans would end up in Hell. If He did not make humans, then no humans would sin, and no humans would be sent to Hell.

[Soldier4Christ]

We all know the Bible is not flawed as the word of God is not flawed. He means what He said.

Is it good for people to reject God? No, of course not but that is their choice to do so. People are forewarned if they reject God then they are choosing eternal punishment. The consequences are theirs. They are given a choice, accept Christ as their Saviour and spend eternity with Him in His home, or reject Him and spend eternity with satan.

Even in this world we see that we have consequences to our choices and actions, many of them being very permanent. If we make the wrong choice and step off a 1,000 ft cliff it is a wrong and very permanent choice, this earthly body will die. It is no different.

That is not a cruel God, that is a just God. One that has given us all a choice. As we are told, He would that we all are saved but it must be our choice, willingly giving ourselves to Him. He wants those that are willing to worship Him not those that are forced to worship Him as God is not a tyrant.

[nChrist]

Kryptid Said:

Man, with all of the colored font and capitalized words, it feels like you're kind of yelling at me. I hope you didn't intend it like that.   ???

 

Hello Kryptid,

I'll help you out and let you know beyond any doubt if I intend to yell at you. If there are any flaws, it's with man - not the Holy Bible or with GOD.

By the way, I like colored fonts, and I many times use "all-caps" for names of great respect like GOD. ALMIGHTY GOD has told us what HE expects and what will happen if we don't comply, and that's the way it will be. It's really quite simple since HE is the CREATOR and should have been given respect and obedience without HIM asking for it. There really shouldn't be any lack of reverence or obedience, but there is, even though HE has shown man HIS Ways for thousands of years and provided HIS WORD for further details.

The Great Flood that killed all but a few human beings should have been more than a hint that GOD hates evil and will eventually pour out HIS Wrath on evil. YET, many men wallow in evil, disobey HIM, and even blaspheme HIS Name. The Great Flood was minor in comparison to what is yet to come. GOD doesn't make any mistakes, but men obviously do, even after being given many chances. I might also add there were wars, plagues, famine, Sodom and Gomorrah, and a host of other examples that should have given man more than a hint about what happens when ALMIGHTY GOD is disrespected, disobeyed, and rejected. YET, many men still have a greater love of sin and rejection of the FREE GIFT of Salvation. Plainly and simply, they will reap what they sow.

Questioning GOD'S already prescribed punishment is a waste of time that would be much better spent in sharing the GOOD NEWS of Salvation. People are still accepting JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour, and tomorrow might be too late. Which would you rather do:  1) debate what's already blunt and obvious in the Holy Bible;  2) try to help the lost?

The answer for the majority of Christians is "try to help the lost". However, you might find someone who wishes to argue over what is already plain. If so, they'll let you know.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 2:8-10 NASB  See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

[Brother Jerry]

I think PR had hit it right on the head.

God is just.  Just as you do not think it is good to punish someone eternally for something as finite as life on earth.  It also would not be good to punish someone for a limited amount of time and then allow them to come to heaven.  This goes back to a merit based concept of salvation.  If you put up with hell long enough then you can come to heaven.  So go ahead live in sin, do all the nasty things you want to, because all you have to do is 10-20 in hell then you are home free in the mansions of heaven. 

Man started off as a whole creature.  When man fell we became vacant.  God gives us the chance to be born again as a new creature.  A whole creature.  We are given just one chance and that is anytime between our physical birth and our physical death.  This is the time to determine our spiritual birth or our spiritual death. 

Our spirit has but one choice.  If there were more than one option then salvation would not be a gift to be given, but something that could be earned.  If you made the wrong decision here then you could just pay the price and get another chance.  Which is then merits on our own accord. 

[bart76bythebook]

Hebrews 5:11-6:6 (Repentance from dead works, faith toward God, teaching on baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurection of the dead, and eternal judgement) We should all be skilled in the word of righteousness

- eternal judgement is one off the six fundamentals you have to grasp to move forward

will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge Because you have rejected knowledge,I also will reject you

Romans 10:1-8   Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

[nChrist]

AMEN Bart76ByTheBook!

I don't think that I've had an opportunity to welcome you yet, so WELCOME! I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite. I look forward to reading your posts and having fellowship with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 37:25-26 NASB  I have been young and now I am old, Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken Or his descendants begging bread. All day long he is gracious and lends, And his descendants are a blessing.

[2nd Timothy]

Greetings Kryptid...

Of course God isn't going to ask us if what He does is okay with us. What concerns me is the fact that I can't reconcile how eternal punishment is good.

This one is easy.  Is Gods justice good?

Deu 32:4  He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

What should the penalty be for a man who commits murder?   10 years, 50 years, life in prison, Capital punishment?   Would a GOOD judge administer justice to this individual?   You bet!  If an imperfect human judge can administer life in prison, or capital punishment, why is it so hard to believe an eternal God who is far more perfect and just than any man, could not administer justice on an even greater scale of good for eternity?

If it is good, then there should be a way for me to understand it as such, and I'm looking for such an understanding here on this forum. If it isn't good, then somehow the Bible is flawed. Since no one wants to hear of that, then there must be some form of justification, and I want to know what it is so I can put my heart at ease and strengthen my faith.

You ready?....here it is!

Rom 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

We have been tried and found guilty by the Good Judge already!

Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Have you noticed that people die from time to time?   Thats seems fairly permenant/eternal doesn't it?  Thats a HUGE clue that God means business about sin.


Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Joh 11:25  [...] I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Theres your justification, which should more than put your heart at ease, provided you have accepted Him as your Lord and Saviour.   God's Justice will be served for all men....either at the blood stained cross of Calvary, or Eternity apart from God.

Blessings!

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen, His mercy is great! He has provided a way for us to escape that punishment if we but accept it.

[airIam2worship]

AMEN PR and 2T,

Let me just put this in an easy way for some to understand.

If a child molester, murderer, thief or any other felon was to commit a heinous crime and was sent to jail and went to court where he was just tried and released, wouldn't he go out and do the same things or worse again? Of course he would because he knows he can get away with it! If he did it again and again was released, he would continue to do  whatever he wants. There would be no justice. Upright citizens would be terrorized and not be safe. GOD does not want people who are unrepentant in HIS Kingdom, HE is giving them a chance to repent and escape from eternal punishment. GOD said that if they repent not and do not accept the free gift of Salvation through the remission of sins, by our Lord Jesus Christ, they will be punished eternally. That is the reason that GOD said that the end would not come until this Good News of the Gospel is preached to all mankind. They will be without excuse. They will choose whom they want to serve. They will choose where they want to  spend eternity.