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Royo
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« on: September 17, 2003, 02:05:57 AM » |
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I recently approached my pastor about the many times he has refered to Jesus doing this or that in the times of the Old Testament.
I asked him why he kept doing this when it was not possible, since Jesus did not come into existence till 2000 years ago.
Now let me say, I know the Word has always existed. "For there are three who bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." [1 John 5.7].
And of course, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." [John 1.1,2]. And, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." [John 1.14].
The WORD has always existed, but did not take on flesh and dwell among us until 2000 years ago. But my pastor just looked at me like I was a child who did not understand. And he did not answer my question. In most areas he is a great pastor who teaches the true Word of God, and I love and respect him. But this kind of surprised me.
Has anyone else come upon others saying things like this about Jesus appearing and doing things long before He was ever even born?
Your brother in Christ. Roy.
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Saved_4ever
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2003, 02:14:24 AM » |
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I can't say I'm exactly sure about what you mean. Maybe you can give a few examples. Jesus was in the furnance with shadrach and the gang.
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Royo
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2003, 02:44:09 AM » |
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I can't say I'm exactly sure about what you mean. Maybe you can give a few examples. Jesus was in the furnance with shadrach and the gang.
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Actually, in Daniel, it says, in my NKJV, "....and the form of the fourth is like the Son Of God." [Dan. 3.25]. "LIKE the Son of God." I believe the Word was with them in the furnace, but the 'Man' Jesus did not yet exist.
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Saved_4ever
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2003, 03:58:47 AM » |
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Semantics at best. Exactly how would anyone know what the Son of God would look like before he "existed" as you put it?
That still doesn't give me any exampes of what you mean anyhow.
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Royo
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2003, 04:54:08 AM » |
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There are no 'examples' to give. I have simply stated that the "only begotten Son of God", Jesus, could not have existed yet in the time of the old testament, since He was not yet born. The "Word" has always existed, and He "took on flesh and dwelt among us," and that is Jesus. And that happened about 2000 years ago. So Jesus, the "Son of God," also the "Son of Man," could not have been appearing in the days of the old testament.
Love to all in Christ. Roy.
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Saved_4ever
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2003, 07:40:32 AM » |
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No by examples, I mean examples of your pastor making such assertions.
I can't say that I can recall my Pastor doing such, so I don't quite understand what you are hearing. The only thing I could think of was the mention in Daniel. Also I don't think I have ever had my Pastor not answer a question.
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Psalm 119
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2003, 01:15:23 PM » |
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Royo,
Great question by the way!
Yes, Jesus is throughout the Scriptures beginning in Genesis.
"And God said" Let us (The Father and the Son) make man in Our image, according to Our likeness," Gen 1:26a
Royo,
look up with a concordance Son of Man. And another is Rock; as in Christ the spiritual rock. If you will study this topic; you will find what you are looking for.
Jesus has always been.....
Psalm 119
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Allinall
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2003, 03:09:56 AM » |
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Roy,
I see where you are coming from here (I think at least), however, there can be a danger in the semantics being used. You are referring to a name, given to the Son of God at His birth in the form of a man, or His incarnation. You stated that you understand His eternality, but not how He could have been in the O.T. Are you asserting that He wasn't there as the God-Man, or that He wasn't there by the name of Jesus?
The only reason I ask, is that the entirety of scripture revolves around this God-Man. He is the "Speaker" in Genesis 1. He is the "Walker" in Genesis 3. He is seen in many other theophanies throughout the O.T., and is only named a common name once He was incarnated. Was Jesus in the O.T.? Yes! As the God-Man? No - as God.
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 "that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death" |
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Royo
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2003, 04:05:35 AM » |
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Roy,
I see where you are coming from here (I think at least), however, there can be a danger in the semantics being used. You are referring to a name, given to the Son of God at His birth in the form of a man, or His incarnation. You stated that you understand His eternality, but not how He could have been in the O.T. Are you asserting that He wasn't there as the God-Man, or that He wasn't there by the name of Jesus?
The only reason I ask, is that the entirety of scripture revolves around this God-Man. He is the "Speaker" in Genesis 1. He is the "Walker" in Genesis 3. He is seen in many other theophanies throughout the O.T., and is only named a common name once He was incarnated. Was Jesus in the O.T.? Yes! As the God-Man? No - as God.
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Yes, that is it. You have put it perhaps better than I could word it. Thank you.
God bless you brother. Roy.
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