Higher Textural criticism - is it necessary?

[doc]

I just read a book by Bart Ehrman entitled "Misquoting Jesus..." in an attempt to sharpen my apologetic tools and was amazed at the frankness of the author regarding his personal religious life.  The publisher's website gives few details and emailing the author seems impossible as he is enconsed within an academic bastion, but I tried.

Do you all believe this is constructive or destructive for a seeking Christian?

doc

[Soldier4Christ]

Such books as that are a detriment not only to Christians but to anyone that may read them. Any book that criticizes God's word in that manner should not be read. His primary surmise is that the Bible has very little worth in the worship of God. He also leads a person to believe that Jesus is not God. Yes I would say it is a garbage book.

[nChrist]

Hello Doc,

I think that many books on theology are negative for Christians to read, but it obviously would have much to do with the author. If you're asking if it would do any good to question the author or present a differing opinion, I would doubt it, but that would again depend on the individual author.

In reading your post, I couldn't help but think about some of my theology professors many years ago who weren't even Saved. For some folks, the Bible is something to critique in all of their earthly wisdom and make it an intellectual exercise instead of a heart exercise. Some of these folks don't consider the Bible to be God's Word, rather just a literary work to criticize.

Doc, I do read Christian material, other than the Bible, from time to time, but I usually check the author and the material before I waste my time. It certainly isn't necessary to spend any money to find outstanding material, as there are many places on the Internet with more outstanding Christian resources than you could read in several lifetimes. If you are trying to arm yourself with good apologetics type material, I'll recommend several sites that should be very easy to find:

Answers In Genesis

Apologetics Press

Bible Bulletin Board

Back To The Bible

Bible Answers

C.A.R.M.

Apologetics Research

Christian Answers

Radio Bible Class

Grace and The Truth Ministries

Christians Unite - Right Here!   

Watchman Fellowship - This one lists individual cults and Biblical arguments to use in talking with someone you are trying to witness to.

Doc, it really depends on what you are specifically looking for. We have tons of material on Christians Unite that could be used in many situations. The search functions on this new forum software work great. You might do a search for things you are interested in. Or, please feel completely free to start a thread and ask for ideas about how to help people with various problems.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 10:8-10 NASB  But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

[Brother Jerry]

Amen with what is said above.

BEP has it right on.

First we believe in God the creator.  And the Bible is His Word.  And being His Word He is going to preserve it throughout the generations.

God has proven time and time again that He will ensure He remains faithful to us even when we turn our backs on Him.  He provided for us even when we created things that were against Him (slavery for example).  And even though languages die such as the original Hebrew, Koine Greek, etc, etc God will ensure that His word prevails through it all.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

[airIam2worship]

Amen to all that was said. Nothing left to add. 

[doc]

My sincere thanks to all.

In my email to "Black Bart" (if he ever sees it) I attempted to direct him to verses that support the theme that without the Holy Spirit we have no comprehension of the "intent" of Scripture.  His humanistic studies are concerned with the "content" of Scripture - which can be a can of worms if you examine all mss. and non-canonical documents.

I also encouraged him to consider the edification of the Body of Christ as a primary responsibility of all Evangelical Christians.  As he was "born again" at age 15, he may still call himself a Christian even though he states he lost his faith through his collegiate studies.

I was saddened by his testimony and humanistic conclusions and am praying for him daily.

Please join me in this, brothers and sisters.

doc

[nChrist]

Hello Doc,

Brother, I think that I understand completely. You made a point that must be remembered: an academic genius will NOT understand many parts of the Holy Bible because understanding is spiritually discerned with the help of the Holy Spirit. You hit the nail on the head perfectly. They can have two lines of degrees before and after their name and not have a clue about many parts of the Bible. I remember getting upset with my unsaved professors numerous times and even tried to witness to them. They were able to use all kinds of technical terms and had head knowledge with nothing in the heart. It's very sad that many babes in Christ can teach them and sadder still that they are teaching others. I consider it worthless to take a theology class or read a theology book from an unsaved author. AND, I certainly understand how the author of the book you read got confused in college.

Dreamweaver made me aware of an outstanding author - T. Austin-Sparks. You will even find some of his material in the book section of the forum. He was an old fashioned Christian who believed firmly in "freely you have received, freely give". His books are wonderful, and you can get all of them on the Internet free. There are many outstanding Christian authors who were determined to make their work available and free long after their deaths. Another excellent author that I think of immediately is D. L. Moody, the founder of the Moody Bible Institute. You should be able to easily find several books from each of these dear and departed Brothers in Christ. If there is something special you are looking for, please start a thread and ask.  There are so many outstanding FREE resources that you won't even spend a penny.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 1:16-17 NASB  For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.  For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

[doc]

Hey, all,

Some time has passed and I have heard nothing from Black Bart.

I post my email to him here because the publisher (Oxford University Press) may not fwd it.  He may have a better chance of seeing it here !!  Do youall think he frequents this site?

Webmaster - please fwd to Dr. Ehrman
 
My dear Mr. Ehrman,

I have perused your book "Misquoting Jesus" and have come to some conclusions regarding it and you. As a "born-again-Christian" perhaps you did once receive the Holy Spirit as a Grace from God, along with your faith, but somewhere along the line turned your back on Him, Christ and God the Father. Only these suppositions explain to me why you have deigned to inform the Christian world of the destructive nature of higher criticism and admitted to your own fallen state. I too, received a shock in college when taught these notions by ordained Lutheran divines and abandoned my child-like faith for almost thirty five years.

Today I fully understand your position on the true nature of our Bibles - in fact I support much of it. That being said, the reality of a saving faith, the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit and the (conditional) promises of God sustain me - and those I worship with - continuously. It may not be perfect, or even close, but it works.

Please allow me to quote a portion of my favorite book.

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned."

You know where this text is Bart, and have considered it before, I believe, but it is reliable and comforting to me because I found it to be true. This was my experience - when I could not repent of my unbelief, no one could persuade me otherwise. But as I found that I needed God and Christian fellowship in later life, (now 67) I reexamined the intent - as opposed to the content - of scripture and found peace therein.. I had been a "taster" -geuomai - really saved - as Jesus truly experienced death in Heb 2:9 and had fallen away. No one could bring me back to repentance, but they didn't in the first place - He did and He did it again.

The simple truth is that Christianity works for those who are serious about it and become doers of the word and not hears only.

You are correct when you say the differences in verse and mss. comparisons are completely immaterial and insignificant but you are discounting all of God's purposes for total reliability of Holy Writ. You can do nothing else without the Holy Spirit to guide and inform you. Your book is not edifying. Isn't that what we are called to do for each other?

In Christian Love,

David C. Wade

[nChrist]

Hello Brother David (Doc),

I truly feel sorry for people who read the Holy Bible with only an intellectual interest to criticize. The GREAT POWER OF GOD'S WORD is still just as powerful as ever, and people are still being saved for eternity by hearing it.

Many Christians have hidden God's Word in their hearts and share imperfect voice and speech with others. Even in this form, GOD'S WORD HAS GREAT POWER! One of the reasons why God's Word has such power is the Holy Spirit of GOD uses it for HIS PURPOSE. GOD promises us in the Holy Bible that HIS WORD will never return void, and that promise is all GOD'S children need to know when they witness or share with others. Even if they laugh at us, GOD'S WORD will still be used according to HIS Will and Purpose, never returning void, so we should never become discouraged. We simply need to pray for strength and wisdom to continue and know that GOD will do the rest.

Brother, I don't know if that author will ever read your comments, but I do know that he will not be able to slow or stop what GOD plans to do through HIS children. We can and should be praying for the lost that the Holy Spirit of GOD will soften their hearts for the "Hearing of the WORD".

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 111:7-8 NASB  The works of His hands are truth and justice; All His precepts are sure.  They are upheld forever and ever; They are performed in truth and uprightness.