JONAH

[Heidi]

I don't think Christ's assertion that Jonah's staying 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of a whale raises Jonah to the level of Christ. I think Christ was simply saying that what seems impossible is possible with God.

[suzie]

Jonah was in the belly of a great fish that God provided. That does not necessarily mean it was a whale. In fact, a whale is a mammal and not a fish.  I agree with you whitehorse in that there is no Scriptural basis that Jonah was dead and resurrected. He was buried in the belly of a great fish in the depths of the seas for 3 days and nights and miraculously lived through it to preach repentance to Ninevah.

[Petro]

Just out of curiosity, where did you get the idea that Jonah died in the whale?

Blessings to you.

whitehorse,

I posted Jonahs own words, for your reading , both translated from the Greek- English, and Hebrew-English.

Sadly, the KJV, does not give the same flavor to this passage in chapter 2 of Jonah, the NIV to their credit, matches more closely the Hebrew-English translation at verse 2, 7.

Verse 8,  in the KJV nor thr NIV, match the Hebrew-English Interlinear, therefore "when my life was ebbing away."  

 Jonahs own words, at verse 2, , he speaks of the "belly of Sheol", in the Hebrew means "grave", there are other poetic usage, which could be inserted using this word, and it could give the word "grave" another meaning, such as in the Psalms, David uses this same language at Psa 30:3, a prayer of thanksgiving, for his near death experience, it has a poetic tone to it, since obviously David did not die.

However Jonah's experience found him in dire straights, and I doubt he was thinking of poetry to tell of it.  

Besides the story is not a parable since Jesus, uses his experiences of  being in the belly of this fish three days and nights (and refers to him as a historical character, at Mat 12) reffering to His own  death and burial for three days and nights in the belly of the earth,

He was'nt reffering to laying in the tomb semi conscious waiting till the third day (as you picture Jonah), so He could show himself,  it is written "he gave up the ghost." and, "he arose on the third day".

Notice verses 7, " You brought my life up from the pit" (Hebrew), the Greek uses the word sheol,  verse 8  "speak of crying out to God, when his life was ebbing away. He other versions of scripture do not show this words.

By the way, seeing this follows, believing the word of God, (if you can't see it, it may be you don't believe that Jonah was a real man, this is why you lump him in with mythical stories) if one doesn't see this great truth, not just that Jonah, was a Christ type, but that He perfectly exemplified, the Christ, more perfectly.

Jonahs prayer of thanksgiving was for his life being restored to him, by the Almighty, notice it (his prayer) dealt with his situation and not with the cause, in his crying out to God he vowed obedience to God, if God delivered him, from the pit or grave whatever you prefer.

He knew he was deserving of death, for being disobedient.  

And he also knew God forgives repent sinners..

Here, let me give it to you;

Jonah 3
 10  And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
4:1  But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
2  And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

In this point, Jonah wasn't all that christ like after all, since he really hated the ninevehites, since he preffered God to have destroyed the city and its inhabitants, rather than preach Gods word to them.

As for the story  of a man, being swallowed by a whale, it has criculated for centuries, when and if you find the story, I garauntee you, that man was not in the belly of the whale for three days and nights and, you don't have to dig it up for me, because it still wouldn't prove anything to support the theory that Jonah was just simply a christ like character, who didn't die..

Petro

[Whitehorse]

By the way, seeing this follows, believing the word of God, (if you can't see it, it may be you don't believe that Jonah was a real man, this is why you lump him in with mythical stories) if one doesn't see this great truth, not just that Jonah, was a Christ type, but that He perfectly exemplified, the Christ, more perfectly.

I never said or implied anything of the sort. How could he be a type if he were fictional? How could he prophecy? I called it prophecy, not a parable. This is no way to win an argument, but is borderline violation of the ninth commandment.

Yes, I read the verses carefully, but there is nothing that said he died. His life certainly was ebbing away, and God brought the whale to the surface again. God made the prophecy clear. But you still haven't addressed the issues of baptism, David's prophecy having not been crucified, or Isaac. These are all examples where references are made to Christ's death, without the person dying who in some way identifies with or prophecies this death. Instead of actually killing His servants, the Lord chose to symbolize Christ's death through immersing or even sprinkling water, writing prophetic statements about crucifixion without the author himself being crucified, and raising a knife above the human on the altar without actually slaying him. And what did Abraham say in his faith, to this son of promise?

Abraham said, My son, God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. Genesis 22:8

Even so, having said this, he raised the knife above his son. And through this act of obedience he received another promise from God, which made him the father of all true Israel. What do you suppose the significance of this is?

Also, what is so special about Jonah that he somehow fails in his prophecy by not dying? There is no statement that he did, but rather his poem glorified God for sparing him. After all he is a prophet, not the Christ.

As for the poem, it isn't a matter of what he felt like doing, as we learn from the book overall, that his aversion to God's command led to this unwitting prophecy. He wrote the poem as prophetic, messianic scripture. Not for personal entertainment.

Blessings to you.
Whitehorse

[Petro]

Whitehorse,

You may be of them, that explain hard to understand scriptural passages in metephorical terms, which do point out truth, but leave out the most glaring and perhaps the central teaching of truths and, that is,  that;

Jesus died and arose from the grave three days after his death having visited and preached to the spirits in prison(Sheol), the belly of the earth; Jonah died and from the belly of the great fish, prayed out to God, and praised Him, for delivering him, from "sheol," the "pit."

I suppose, you can use these metaphorical figures of speech to preach the Gosple to unbelievers but it leaves little to be desired.

Unbelievers do not believe Jesus really, actually died, how often we hear of people saying;  

"Prove to me, Jesus died and rose from the grave and I will believe".

In the use of this passage of scripture,  it is clear, you would then agree with those of the "wicked and adulterous generation"(scribes, Pharisee's, Sadduces) whom Jesus spoke to, "that sought a sign", from  Him, and the present day scoffers, who deny the ressurection, which consist of "liberal christians, aethists, muslims, new agers",  and all others who deny that Jesus was ever resurrected.

Christians should believe what the Spirit teaches, not, what an evil and adulterous generation teaches.

As I said before, you don't have to believe, what I,  have shared with you to be the truth, since I recognize that in order to see scriptural teaching one must believe the Word of God, firstly..

What is obscure to you, is plainly taught and written in the Words of Jonah's confession. And prayer of thanksgiving.

To claim these words where Jonah, speaks of the Pit, Sheol, or of his Life Ebbing away are poetic and have no significance, is to reduce the testimony of Jesus to a parable, and  unfortunately, to advance this teaching is to detract from the truth of Gods Word.

Jonah, may be seen as a "Christ type", but one can plainly see, he is an "Israel (the nation) type" also, he was selfish (caring nothing for the spiritual well being of others), disobedient, stubborn, self willed and willing to die rather than obey God, in short he was unrighteous, inspite of the fact he perfectly understood and knew the nature of God.

His willingness to disobey God  shows  that this may not have been the first time he had gotten away with open rebellion of disobedience, since he later confesses,  

" I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil." (Jonah 4:2),

 and, obviously God had not punished Him, and he knew God loves repent sinners, and will not reject their confessions of a true contrite heart, even while in their deathbeds, this is why he remembered to confess, but have you wondered why it took him three days and nights??

 (no doubt he thought of every way he might  redeem himself without confessing his sin)

And his attitude never changed after God, brought him up from the "pit", he only did what he vowed to do,  note;

Jonah 2
7  ............ I will pay that that I have vowed.

This is a passage you could never use to speak to, in evangelizing any Muslim, because, they use this passage of scripture to prove Jesus never died, consider;

 Http://www.letusreason.org/Islam4.htm

"Muslim Claim- the sign of Jonas: Matthew 12:38-30 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the Earth. It is not that he entered the whale's belly dead and came out of it alive; his sign was that he entered the whale's belly alive, remained there alive, and came out of there alive."

I guess, you agree with the muslim teaching.......

Most modern scholars, today teach, that  nothing super natural occurred while Jonah was in the belly of the great fish, three days and nights (they will contradict themselves by claiming it was a miracle that Jonah lived thru this experience) but this only shows their confusion in what the truth of the matter really is,  (this is why, you claim) that Jonah, did not die, and they do so, because they superficially consider the book of Jonah, in the light of Mat 12:39-41.

I say that Jesus would have never used the sign of Jonah, had Jonah not died and been brought back to life by that same Spirit, that raised Him from the grave; since this is the central sign given to an unbelieving dieing world.

Here is proof, God can use the ungodly to preach the word, and it is not the preacher which accomplishes the purposes of God, but the Word itself.  Jonah was a Prophet.

There is nothing that tells us whether he ever repented and was converted, while expereincing similarities to the death and resurrection of Christ, just because Jesus uses his expereince as a sign to unbelievers, there is no evidcence he was right with God, what is clear  is that he did not care for the lives of men, he rather looked for their eternal judgement and it exceedingly upset him and made him angry, that God forgave the city of  sixscore thousand persons.

He was raised by the Spirit of God, in the belly of the great fish, but no sign of being indwelt by  that same spirit.

Rom 8
 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Please note that the sign of Jonah, given by Jesus was to an evil and adulterous generation, seeking signs, and what did these conclude from the sign given?

That Jesus did  not arise from the dead.

What is the conclusion of the wicked and adulterous generation of today?

That Jesus did  not arise from the dead.,

It never happened many claim, isn't this true??

Yet the scriptures tell us plainly He arose from the grave on the third day, just as he said.

Remove the resurrection from the gosple and you have nothing, but an allegory, parable, a metophor, and the gosple can be twisted this way.

You use the word, whale to refer to the [great fish in story of Jonah, and I understand exactly why you do, since you do not believe the account, you reduce this story wich Jesus confirms as a true account of a man, to the level of myth or allegory, while pointing out, to the account of a man, who survived being swallowed by a whale in our genereation.

Accounting, that Jonah by his own strength survived the experience..

While at the same time pointing out, proudly, what a christ type and like,  this vial sinner was, as thou this is all there is to the Lord's reference of Jonah's experience.

Blessings,   Salvation is of the LORD.

Petro

[Royo]

Petro, many of your arguments do not stand up.
You say that it is physically impossible for Jonah to have been able to live 3 days in a fish. Well, it is also physically impossible for Daniel to have survived the fire in the oven he was thrown into, but he did. For with God, all things are possible.
I have always been of the mind, 'God said it, I believe it, that settles it'. Since nowhere does scripture say that Jonah died,
then I have to believe that, like Daniel, God preserved him somehow.
Love in Christ. Roy.

[Petro]

Petro, many of your arguments do not stand up.
You say that it is physically impossible for Jonah to have been able to live 3 days in a fish. Well, it is also physically impossible for Daniel to have survived the fire in the oven he was thrown into, but he did. For with God, all things are possible.
I have always been of the mind, 'God said it, I believe it, that settles it'. Since nowhere does scripture say that Jonah died,
then I have to believe that, like Daniel, God preserved him somehow.
Love in Christ. Roy.

Bro Royo,

You compare apples and oranges.

In the account of Daniel 3, at; the passage of scripture you refer to;

23  And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24  Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25  He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
26  Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.
27  And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.
28  Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.


It is obvious that had not the hand of the Almighty, intervened these men, would have died. At least you concede this fact.

Re read the passage, to deny this is true, is to deny men are  not subject to the physical laws of the universe.

In this case, nothing is said of the men praying, or crying out to God, in their distress, in fact the passage doesn't even point out they were distressed as Jonahs was, after three days and nights in the belly of the great fish.

Which makes my point, in the case of Jonah, God intervened by raising him from the pit (sheol) he was being judged by God, these men in Daniel, were judged by King Nebuchadnezzars law, and it is clear they didn't fear him who was able to kill the body but not the soul, on the other hand, note Jonah's prayer .

Jonah 2
6  ......you brought my life up from the pit..
7  ......when my life was ebbing away......

As I stated before, Jesus in referring to Jonahs experience of being in the belly of the great fish three days and nights as being the sign to a wicked and depraved generation of His own death burial and resurrection, he didn't give this sign to believers, but to unbelievers, to force them to decide and confess what they believed in their heart, and  reject; His ressurection.


Believers received a different sign which is revealed by the Spirit, and the sign, wasn't to present Jonah as a Christ type figure  to them.

I encourage you to read Mathew 27, at;

62  Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
63  Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
64  Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
65  Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.
66  So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.
28:1  In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2  And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3  His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4  And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5  And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6  He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7  And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
8  And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
9  And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
10  Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.
11  Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and showed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
12  And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
13  Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
14  And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
15  So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

These same religious rulers (Pharisees, Sadducess and Scribes) whom sought a sign from heaven from Jesus, were the same ones who approached Pilate to set a watch at the tomb of Jesus.

Note that they paid a great sum of money to the sodiers that they might not tell the truth of verse 6 above, and finally note that verse 15, states "this saying is commonly reported among the Jews, even to this day.

What was the conclusion of the evil and adulterous generation who did not believe??

The Jesus, never arose from the dead.

The book of Jonah is read to this very day during one of the  7 Mosaic High Feast Days "Yom Kippor".

As I said to whitehorse, You don't have to believe what the scriptures teach, concerning Jonah, and one can only see this truth that Jonah died, if one is first willing to believe, that the central piece of the sign of Jonah wasn't for the purpose of pointing out Jonah was a typed of Christ, but because he died and was resurrected by God the Holy Spirit.

To deny this and believe he is a type of christ is silly, since Jonah exhibited more non-Christ type attributes, than he did Christ-type,

In fact there is nothing you can point out in his life depicted in these 4 chapters, which you can attribute to his own willingness to do the will of God.

If you can point to one thing he did, other than he went and did, what he vowed to God in the belly of the fish, after God raised him up??  

Please post it for us.

No doubt his prayer went something like this;   O God, if you let me live thru this I will, go and preach at nineveh.  

Imagine that, trying to work a deal with God.

This guy was so selfish, he wouldn't even throw himself into the ocean to save the lives of the sailors, note what he said to them;

Jonah 1
11  Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.
12  And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.

On the other hand, Jesus did all the will of God, even his willingness to die on the cross in perfect obedience to the Father.

I have no idea how you can use the life of this man, to teach his christ-type attributes, in a positive way, to advance the Gosple of our Lord.

Personally, I would be embarassed to bring this matter up, if I believed he never died and the Lord raised him up, it is the goodness and grace of God that matters, not anything Jonah did, said, or shared.

He is a perfect example of the kind of man, God is willing to save, and its a wonder what he sees in us.

Blessings,

Petro

[Royo]

Oops. I meant to say the 3 men in the book of Daniel.
Be that as it may, it seems you are making a moutain out of a molehill. Jesus died, was in paradise 3 days, and rose from the dead. Weather any of us agree about Jonah or not does not effect that truth. God could have preserved him if He so chose to, so your point is mute. The truth of the death and resurrection of Jesus is what really matters. In that there is no dispute. At least among those who believe the Word of God. For any who do not accept the Word of God, that can only be dealt with by the Holy Spirit of God Himself.
Off to bed. night all. Roy.

[Petro]

Oops. I meant to say the 3 men in the book of Daniel.
Be that as it may, it seems you are making a moutain out of a molehill. Jesus died, was in paradise 3 days, and rose from the dead. Weather any of us agree about Jonah or not does not effect that truth. God could have preserved him if He so chose to, so your point is mute. The truth of the death and resurrection of Jesus is what really matters. In that there is no dispute. At least among those who believe the Word of God. For any who do not accept the Word of God, that can only be dealt with by the Holy Spirit of God Himself.
Off to bed. night all. Roy.

royo,

There are christians in liberal circles, that do not believe in the virign birth, nor his death and ressurection, perhaps this is news to you.

And if it isn't, perhaps it doesn't affect you, that is to say, like other christians, you would say, oh well, everyone must believe whatever they want to believe, as long as they believe something, that is what matters.

This attitude is exactly the reason, why schisms and error have been allowed to creep into the church and it teachings.

Every passage of scripture is given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and as you have read before, perhaps;

"Man does not live by bread alone, but every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God."

This little story of the Prophet Jonah, may be a nothing but a   mole hill , and not worth knowing whether he died and was raised by God to you, but to the man of God, who strives to share the truth of Gods Word with a dying world, understanding this little fact will make a world of difference in how he effective he does so.

Jesus spoke of Jonah, perhaps it wouldn't be as important to know what He meant,  by this comparison of Jonahs experience and His own, if He hadn't

I frankly, can't see what value it is to know that Jonah was a type of Christ or a man of God, when he obviously didn't care about peoples souls, but if a sinner like this died and was resurrected by Gods grace, then it changes the picture completely, and can be used to prove Jesus was speaking of His own death and resurrection.

Believing Jonah was a type of Christ, must edify you and others in a way, which you can evangelize others with.

Unbelievers do not believe Jesus died and arose, how does your viewpoint and ability to share Jonah was a type of christ, in evangelization advance the cause of the Gosple??


Blesings,

Petro

[suzie]

Actually, it doesnt matter whether Jonah died inside the whale or did not. The phrase "going down to sheol" was seen as a poetic metaphor for literally being buried at sea. This fishs' belly would be his literal grave unless God rescued him. God could have preserved Jonah alive, or could have let Jonah die and then be brought back to life in that fish.  

 In Matthew 12:40-41, Jesus talks about the sign of Jonah, comparing Jonah's three days and three nights in the belly of the fish to the time he would be in the earth. Just as with John the Baptist, one much greater than Jonah is Jesus.

[Royo]

No, I am not one who feels that it is O.K. to believe what you want, as long as you believe something. I know the pope has told Moslems it is O.K. to be a Moslem, as long as they are good Moslems. That is just another example of the religion of man, which man created, not God. Christians make up the body of Christ, which is the church. Religions made by man are NOT the church, though many in those religions are born again Christians, and thus a part of the body of Christ. In reference to this religion thing, Paul said, "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?" [1 Cor. 3.1-4].
Today people say, "I am a Baptist", and "I am a Lutheran", etc. Paul calls that "carnal", which I refered to as the religions man created.
As for those who do not believe in the virgin birth, etc., I cannot reach out to every soul in the world to try to set them straight about the truth. I can only touch those who the Lord brings into my sphere of influence. And then, only as He guides me in this. For one will not hear the truth until God has touched them and made them ready to hear it. Then He guides one of His servants to teach that soul the truth.
So no, it is not news to me. But it also only becomes my responsibility as the Lord directs me. The Word tells us that there will be many who will follow false teachings and believe the lies they speak. Though He has called me to 'teach and clarify truth', I am limited as to who I can do this with. That is why there is more than one Christian in the world. I am obedient to my calling, but only one of many He has called.
I cannot worry about those who CHOOSE to belive lies because they either don't truly seek God for themself, or are not willing to give up the ways of the world, and so choose lies because it allows them to keep being worldly. I pray for them, but can only help those who truly want the truth, and whom God guides to me to by His Holy Spirit.
As for Jonah; I have stated that I believe God could have preserved him if He wanted to; and since scripture does not precisely say that Jonah died, then I, in my personal opinion, believe that he did not truly die. What others choose to believe about Jonah is between them and God. I have given my belief. I can do no more.
In love in Christ, Roy.

[Petro]

No, I am not one who feels that it is O.K. to believe what you want, as long as you believe something. I know the pope has told Moslems it is O.K. to be a Moslem, as long as they are good Moslems. That is just another example of the religion of man, which man created, not God. Christians make up the body of Christ, which is the church. Religions made by man are NOT the church, though many in those religions are born again Christians, and thus a part of the body of Christ. In reference to this religion thing, Paul said, "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?" [1 Cor. 3.1-4].
Today people say, "I am a Baptist", and "I am a Lutheran", etc. Paul calls that "carnal", which I refered to as the religions man created.
As for those who do not believe in the virgin birth, etc., I cannot reach out to every soul in the world to try to set them straight about the truth. I can only touch those who the Lord brings into my sphere of influence. And then, only as He guides me in this. For one will not hear the truth until God has touched them and made them ready to hear it. Then He guides one of His servants to teach that soul the truth.
So no, it is not news to me. But it also only becomes my responsibility as the Lord directs me. The Word tells us that there will be many who will follow false teachings and believe the lies they speak. Though He has called me to 'teach and clarify truth', I am limited as to who I can do this with. That is why there is more than one Christian in the world. I am obedient to my calling, but only one of many He has called.
I cannot worry about those who CHOOSE to belive lies because they either don't truly seek God for themself, or are not willing to give up the ways of the world, and so choose lies because it allows them to keep being worldly. I pray for them, but can only help those who truly want the truth, and whom God guides to me to by His Holy Spirit.
As for Jonah; I have stated that I believe God could have preserved him if He wanted to; and since scripture does not precisely say that Jonah died, then I, in my personal opinion, believe that he did not truly die. What others choose to believe about Jonah is between them and God. I have given my belief. I can do no more.
In love in Christ, Roy.

royo,

Thanks for your clarification, I can accept that you acknowledge that your own understanding of this passage of scripture is based on your personal opinion.

As I stated to you previously, what is not clear to you is clear to me.

I was actually hoping someone would post some Christ type  qualities they could put there finger on concerning this man Jonah, that I might consider to see where my error is.

As for the rest of your post I agree perfectly with what you have stated, no disagreement there.

As I said before, I see no value in teaching Jonah was na type of Christ, unlessm there is something  positive one can say about Jonahs character.


God Bless your studies of the Word..

suzie,

You said;

The phrase "going down to sheol" was seen as a poetic metaphor for literally being buried at sea.

My point concerning "metaphors", is that, they can mean anything to the one interpreting the passage, it is like art, it means different things to different people, looking at the work.

I am afraid it is an easy way to explain hard passage of scripture away, in a cute little poetic way.

There is more to it than this.

Can you point out any Christ-type attributes Jonah possessed??

Please don't mention the fact he went an preached at nineveh, since it is clear he negotiated this very thing in exchange for his life.

Blessings,

Petro

[Ambassador4Christ]

Jonah was called upon by God to preach to the wicked city of Nineveh. Instead of going to Nineveh, Jonah fled by boat in the other direction. However, God caused a large storm to stop him in his tracks. When the other sailors found out it was Jonah’s fault for the storm they reluctantly threw Jonah overboard. God arranged for a large fish to save Jonah by swallowing him. Jonah remained in the belly of the fish for three days. Then God caused the fish to spit Jonah out on to dry ground. God again told Jonah to go to Nineveh. This time Jonah went and preached in the streets of Nineveh. The people of Nineveh repented and Jonah was angry. The story ends with God sharing with Jonah why he had compassion on Nineveh. Check out the story of Jonah in the Bible.
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Jonah
http://www.amvcentral.com/jonah/

[Pilgrim]

In the Image of Christ
Colossians 3:8-11

“The Power of God?”

        “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."  1Cor.1:17-24

                Nowadays it is common to hear people talk about the power of God. Many people testify of how the power of God has healed them of some sickness or blessed them with financial wealth, or caused them to speak in tongues. Today many so-called faith healers boldly proclaim that they have been anointed with power from on high. They display so-called healings and other signs and (lying) wonders to make people believe they’ve been anointed by God’s mighty power. Many of them claim that Jesus manifests Himself bodily in their presence and instructs them of His will. It is amazing the stunts that these charlatans come up with to deceive people into believing that they are anointed with the power of God. In fact, like showmen or entertainers, they keep trying to outdo each other in their rise to fame and power. One man blows his breath at people and they fall over backwards as if knocked out by some power or force. They call this stunt being slain in the Spirit, which by the way, is something you never see in the Scriptures. Is this man really anointed with the power of God, or does he just have a case of really bad breath? Another man claims it was a 900-foot tall Jesus that spoke with him, apparently the manifestation of a normal size Jesus was too common and unspectacular. It doesn’t take long nowadays for a new signs and wonders fad to come along and take the spotlight and center stage, and as time goes on they are getting stranger and stranger.

        Dear friends, the power of God is not a circus sideshow as it is so commonly portrayed today. It is not signs and wonders as many of today’s swindlers want you to believe. The true power of God is displayed in the preaching of the cross and seeing lost souls saved from the wrath of God and inheriting eternal life, as the above texts points out. I’m amazed when I watch some of the signs and wonders performers today; their focus is on health, wealth and the signs and wonders that they claim God does through them, and yet you hardly ever see them focus on the gospel. They have huge audiences coming to them seeking a sign, or healing, or to watch them perform their tricks. It has become a form of “Christian entertainment.” Jesus Himself warned against such things in the book of Matthew:

        “Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of  the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”    (Matt. 12:38-40).

        Jesus said it was an evil and adulterous generation, not a righteous and godly one that sought after signs. What’s so amazing in this verse is that the only sign that Jesus was going to give them was the sign of Jonas who was in the belly of a great fish for three days and nights, which was a figure of the Lord’s burial in the heart of the earth. Jesus was pointing them to His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection by this figure. The only sign Jesus was going to give them was the gospel. Our passage from 1 Cor. 1 above says that the Jews require a sign and that the cross was a stumbling block for them. How sad it is that these people missed out on the gospel that could save their souls because their focus was on signs and wonders instead of Jesus Christ and the cross.

        Those who are seeking after signs thinking that the signs are the power of God are deceiving themselves. The Bible warns about a man that will deceive most of the world by his power, signs and lying wonders, in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2:

        “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved”    (2 Thess. 2:8-10).

        This man will be the antichrist, and he will use signs and wonders to deceive the people of the world. Those who think that signs and wonders are the way God manifest His power will easily be deceived by the antichrist who is possessed by Satan himself. In fact, the antichrist will proclaim himself to be God, and most of the world will worship him as such. It’s no wonder then that Jesus said it was an evil and adulterous generation that sought after a sign.

        Remember, the true display of God’s power is the preaching of the gospel which has the power to save those who believe. The apostle Paul knew the true power of God and made it clear in 1 Cor. 1:17-24. He wrote the same thing to the Romans:

        “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek”    (Rom. 1:16).

        Dear friend, the only way to experience the true power of God in your life is by repenting of your sins and believing the gospel. Even if these so-called faith healers could make you healthy and wealthy someday, you are still going to die and meet your Creator, who will judge you (Heb. 9:27).  If you have repented of your old sinful ways of life and believed the preaching of the cross of Jesus, you will inherit eternal life. If the cross is a stumbling block to you and your life has never been transformed by the saving power of the cross of Jesus Christ, you will be damned and experience the second death, which is to be thrown into the lake of fire, where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth for all eternity (Rev. 20:11-15).  Allow me to give you some sound advice, call on the Name of the Lord Jesus while there’s still time to be saved (Rom. 10:9-13). Don’t put it off another day, by then it might be to late (2 Cor. 6:2).

Visit our web site for more articles and information at  http://nlbchapel.org

Pilgrim

[Petro]

God arranged for a large fish to save Jonah by swallowing him.
===================================
Turn up your sound and go here:

Jonah
http://www.amvcentral.com/jonah/

A4C,

I appreciate your posting a site for the story of Jonah, however, you have added words to the biblical account of Jonah, the words to save Jonah, are simply not in scripture.

Note;

Jonah 2
17  Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Unfortunately the use of metaphors, this is the reason why many christians, get derailed when reading scripture.

Now Noah was in the arch, and I suppose someone could make the argument he and his family were in the belly of the arch, but in Noah's case the arch was a type of christ, in Jonah's clearly, the fish was not.

Confusion reigns when men add words to Gods word, and I say people are already confused enough, there is no reason to confuse them, any more than they are already.

Thanks for your input, but the fish did not save Jonah,it swallowed him, and besides Jonah clearly testifies;

Salvation is of the LORD (Jonah 2:9)


Blessings,
Petro