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Author Topic: Supposed Contradictions in the Bible  (Read 4342 times)
Soldier4Christ
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« on: April 04, 2006, 02:20:35 PM »

Supposed Contradiction # 1:

   1. Gen. 1:11 has the trees made on day 3 before man;
      Gen. 2:8 has the trees made on day 6 after man.
   2. Gen. 1:20 has birds made out of the water on day 5;
      Gen. 2:19 has birds made out of the ground (after man) on day 6.
   3. Gen. 1:24, 25 has the animals made on day 6 before man;
      Gen. 2:19 has the animals made on day 6 after man

Explanation of supposed contradiction:

   1. Chapter 1 tells the entire story in the order it happened.
   2. Gen. 2:4-6 gives a quick summary of the first five days of creation.
   3. Gen. 2:7-25 is describing only the events that took place on day 6 in the Garden of Eden.

The trees described in Genesis 2:8 are only in the Garden (the rest of the world is already full of trees from day 3). The purpose of this second creation of trees may have been to let Adam see that God did have power to create, that He was not just taking credit for the existing world. Notice that the second creation of trees was still on day 6 and was only those trees that are "pleasant to the sight and good for food."

The birds created out of the ground on day 6 are only one of each "kind" so that Adam can name them and select a wife. The rest of the world is full of birds from day 5.

Genesis 2:19 is describing only the animals created in the Garden, after man. The purpose of this second batch of animals being created was so that Adam could name them (Gen. 2:19) and select a wife (Gen. 2:20). Adam, not finding a suitable one (God knew he wouldn't), God made Eve (Gen. 2:21-22).

There are no contradictions between these two chapters. Chapter 2 only describes in more detail the events in the Garden of Eden on day 6. If ancient man had written the Bible (as some scoffers say), he would never have made it say that the light was made before the sun! Many ancient cultures worshiped the sun as the source of life. God is light. God made the light before He made the sun so we could see that He (not the sun) is the source of life.

Supposed contradiction # 2:

How many chariot horses did Solomon have, 40,000 (I Kings 4:26) or 4,000 (II Chron. 9:25)?

   1. I Kings 4:26 "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."
   2. II Chron. 9:25 "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen;"

Explanation of supposed contradiction:

Read the verses carefully and you will see that there is no contradiction. They had chariot teams with ten horses and ten men per chariot in case you got a flat tire! If he had "four thousand stalls for horses and chariots" he would need fourty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots. Many modern versions of the Bible try to "fix" what they thought was a mistake and actually created an error.

Supposed contradiction # 3:

How many men did David kill, 700 (II Sam. 10:18) or 7,000 (I Chron 19:18)?

   1. II Sam. 10:18 "And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians,"
   2. I Chron. 19:18 "But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots,"

Explanation of supposed contradiction:

Since they had ten men per chariot both verses are fine.

Supposed contradiction # 4:

How many died in the plague?

   1. Numbers 25:9 "And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand." [24,000]
   2. I Cor. 10:8 "Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand." [23,000]

Explanation of supposed contradiction:

Obviously 1,000 died the next day! There is no contradiction.

Supposed contradiction # 5:

How much gold did Solomon get from Ophir, 450 talents or 420?

   1. I Kings 9:26-28 "And king Solomon made a navy of ships in Eziongeber, which is beside Eloth, on the shore of the Red sea, in the land of Edom. And Hiram sent in the navy his servants, shipmen that had knowledge of the sea, with the servants of Solomon. And they came to Ophir, and fetched from thence gold, four hundred and twenty talents, and brought it to king Solomon."
   2. 2 Chronicles 8:17-18 "Then went Solomon to Eziongeber, and to Eloth, at the sea side in the land of Edom. And Huram sent him by the hands of his servants ships, and servants that had knowledge of the sea; and they went with the servants of Solomon to Ophir, and took thence four hundred and fifty talents of gold, and brought them to king Solomon."

Explanation of supposed contradiction:

This is talking about two different trips! We can see from other verses that obviously many trips to Ophir were made! "For the king had at sea a navy of Tharshish with the navy of Hiram: once in three years came the navy of Tharshish, bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks." 1 Kings 10:22 "Even three thousand talents of gold, of the gold of Ophir, and seven thousand talents of refined silver, to overlay the walls of the houses withal:" 1 Chronicles 29:4

cont'd next post

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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2006, 02:22:18 PM »

Page Two

Supposed contradiction # 6:

Isn't "Easter" an error in Acts 12:4? Shouldn't pascha be "passover" like every other version has?

   1. Acts 12:1-4 1Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) 4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

The word 'Easter' is the correct word and the KJV is the only version I have seen that gets it right. Read Ex. 12 and Num. 28:16-17 and it will be clear that the Passover came before the days of unleavened bread.

In fact, by translating "pascha" as "passover" in Acts 12:4 modern bibles have inserted an ERROR that displays not only their lack of knowledge of Greek in context, but even more their lack of knowledge of ENGLISH!

You see, the man who INVENTS a particular word is the world's foremost authority on that word. In this case, the word "passover" was INVENTED by William Tyndale. Thus, William Tyndale knew the CORRECT definition of "passover" since he INVENTED the word "passover" in the first place.

Singular to relate, William Tyndale did NOT use the word HE INVENTED - "passover" - in Acts 12:4. Why? Why did William Tyndale not use the word HE INVENTED in Acts 12:4? Because, as Dr. Thomas Holland demonstrated, the days of unleavened bread come AFTER Passover. That's ONE reason Tyndale did not employ the word HE INVENTED in Acts 12:4. The second reason, of course, is because Herod was looking forward to the pagan feast of Ishtar, from which the word "Easter" is derived, and so Tyndale, who INVENTED the word "passover" did NOT use the word "passover" in Acts 12:4 in HIS OWN TRANSLATION.

In summary, had modern translators bothered to learn ENGLISH etymology, they would have discovered that the INVENTOR of the word "passover" declined to use the word HE INVENTED in this verse, because the INVENTOR of the word "passover" did not want to MISTRANSLATE the passage, as modern bibles have done.
An article which appeared in The Trinitarian Bible Society Quarterly Record states:
"When Tyndale applied his talents to the translation of the New Testament from Greek into English, he was not satisfied with the use of a completely foreign word, and decided to take into account the fact that the season of the passover was known generally to English people as 'easter' ... Tyndale has ester or easter fourteen times, ester-lambe eleven times, esterfest once, and paschall lambe three times. When he began his translation of the Pentateuch, he was again faced with the problem in Exodus 12:11 and twenty-one other places, and no doubt recognizing the easter in this context would be an anachronism he coined a new word, passover and used it consistently in all twenty-two places. It is, therefore, to Tyndale that our language is indebted for this meaningful and appropriate word."

Some points to ponder about Easter:

   1. The Passover was at night on the 14th day of April.
   2. The seven days of unleavened bread always followed the Passover.
   3. The pagan festival of Astart or Ishtar (Easter) was always held late in April to celebrate the earth regenerating itself after winter. That is why rabbits (Playboy) and eggs, symbols of fertility are used.
   4. The feast days are never called the Passover anywhere in scripture.
   5. Peter was arrested during the days of unleavened bread after Passover.
   6. Herod wanted to kill him during his own pagan festival of Easter coming up in a few days.

KJV is the only version to get it right.

Supposed contradiction # 7:

Did David pay 600 shekels in gold or 50 shekels in silver for the land?

   1. 2 Samuel 24:24 "And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing. So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver."
   2. 1 Chronicles 21:25 "So David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight."

There is no contradiction. 50 shekels of silver was paltry (reference Exodus 21:32) to pay for a site that was later to become the temple mount. However, it might be an appropriate figure to pay for a yoke of oxen. I Chronicles seems to indicate that the initial discussion was about the property. Ornan then offered David the oxen too. David paid 600 shekels in gold for the land and 50 shekels in silver for the oxen.

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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2006, 02:24:23 PM »

ANSWERED CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE

If this is the best that Zathras can do, he should go pick up a hundred year old book on higher criticism. At least those arguments against inspiration had some depth. This is too easy!

   1. Genesis 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
   2. Genesis 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

So what? God is light and He will be the light of heaven long after the sun is gone (Revelation 21:23). Obviously He could have created a stream of light before He made the sun. Dr. Russell Humphrey's has suggested an intriguing explanation of the light God initiated on the first day. It is detailed in his theory of White Hole cosmology 01.

   1. Genesis 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
   2. Genesis 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

Genesis 2:8-9 does not describe the creation of trees but the creation of the garden of Eden for Adam to live in. In it God planted many trees, among them the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life.

   1. Genesis 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
   2. Genesis 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

Genesis 2:19 does not describe the creation of birds (which came out of the seas). Rather, God made one more of each kind of creature from the ground directly before Adam, so that he could name them. It was a second creative act, this one later in the day and only in the garden, that familiarized Adam with all of the kinds of animals he was to rule over.

   1. Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
   2. Genesis 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

See above.

   1. Genesis 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
   2. Leviticus 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth, which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)

Baloney. Can't Zathras distinguish between being ceremonially unclean and sinning? I make my son wash his hands after playing in the sandbox. Does that make him disobedient to play there? A woman with an issue of blood was also said to be unclean, just a couple of chapters later. Does that make her sinful?

   1. Genesis 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
   2. Genesis 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation. (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)

God was pleased to give man a free will. He is not pleased when man uses that to rebel.

   1. Genesis 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
   2. Exodus 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.

Moses wrote (actually collected 10 eye witness accounts and edited) Genesis and used the name for God that was revealed to him.

   1. Genesis 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
   2. Genesis 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.

cont'd next post

« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 02:27:28 PM by Pastor Roger » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2006, 02:25:34 PM »

Page Two

There is physical death (the separation of the soul from the body) and spiritual death (the separation of the soul from God). In a physical sense, Adam BEGAN to die that day. In a spiritual sense, which God consistently uses thereafter (see Ephesians 2:1 and John 8:51) Adam died immediately; that is, his sin separated him from his Creator the instant he ate the fruit.

   1. Genesis 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
   2. Hebrews 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.

Your interpretation of Genesis 2 is totally screwed up. Their sin was disobedience (doing evil) not wanting to know something.

   1. Genesis 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
   2. 2Chronicles 19:7, Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.

God DOES treat all alike. Those that offer improper sacrifices (like Cain) are rejected. If Abel had offered a bloodless sacrifice, he would have been rejected too.

   1. Genesis 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
   2. Proverbs 15:3, Jeremiah 16:17, 23:24-25, Hebrews 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

God gave Cain a chance to come clean. I ASK my boy if he took a cookie that I watched him snitch for the same reason.

   1. Genesis 4:15, Deuteronomy 32:4, Isaiah 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
   2. Exodus 15:3, Isaiah 42:13, Hebrews 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
   3. Exodus 20:5, 34:14, Deuteronomy 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
   4. Leviticus 26:7-8, Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16-17, Joshua 10:40, Judges 14:19, Ezekiel 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
   5. Numbers 25:3-4, Deuteronomy 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, Psalms 7:11, 78:49, Jeremiah 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, Zephaniah 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
   6. 2Samuel 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
   7. Ezekiel 6:12, Nahum 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
   8. 2Corinthians 13:11, 14, 1John 4:8, 16 God is love.
   9. Galatians 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

God hates sin and evil and God loves goodness. So what is the problem? His holiness means He must execute a just penalty for sin. God's love provides a means of forgiveness in Christ for all who will avail themselves. There is no contradiction here.

   1. Genesis 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
   2. Jeremiah 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.

God took on a form to speak with Cain (much like Moses at the burning bush or Abraham at his tent). Cain walked away from his encounter with God.

   1. Genesis 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
   2. Genesis 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
   3. Numbers 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.

Some of Adam's descendants were giants. Some of Noah's descendants were giants. Some giants have lived in recent history. So what?

   1. Genesis 6:6. Exodus 32:14, Numbers 14:20, 1Samuel 15:35, 2Samuel 24:16 God does change his mind.
   2. Numbers 23:19-20, Isaiah 15:29, James 1:17 God does not change his mind.

cont'd next post

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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2006, 02:29:20 PM »

Page Three

God never changes. His actions towards us change as WE change (much as the sun changes when I put on my shades).

   1. Genesis 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark.
   2. Genesis 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark.

Zathras really stretches this time. If seven of *some* are taken, than two of *each* kind ARE taken. There is no contradiction. A contradiction would require that two of some kind NOT be taken!

   1. Genesis 7:1 Noah was righteous.
   2. Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3 Job was righteous.
   3. Luke 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
   4. James 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
   5. 1John 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians).
   6. Romans 3:10, 3:23, 1John 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous.

This is at least a reasonable objection...oft-refuted, but reasonable. God is totally, completely spotlessly righteous. He alone is perfectly holy. When men are described as "righteous," it is always in a comparative way (ie Job 2:3 "there is none like him on the earth"). Men can only become guiltless before the bar of the Almighty by being pardoned through the blood of Christ.

   1. Genesis 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark.
   2. Genesis 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?).

Come on! It is reiterating the event with a specific dating scheme in Noah's life.

   1. Genesis 11:7-9 God sows discord.
   2. Proverbs 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord.

God did not sow discord (contention). He confused the languages. BTW, there are a lot of things that God does that He forbids man to do. So what? That is only reasonable.

   1. Genesis 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world.
   2. 1Corinthians 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion.

This is taken out of context. God is not the author of confusion IN THE CHURCH.

   1. Genesis 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah.
   2. Luke 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah.

Cainan was left out of Genesis. It is also possible that it was purposefully left out of this genealogy. While this would appear unusual, there are a few kings left out in Matthew 1:8. It also appears that in the Jewish tradition, the designation "son" was somewhat flexible. There are multiple instances in the scripture where a grandson is called a son or a son in law is called a son.

   1. Genesis 11:16 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
   2. Genesis 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
   3. Genesis 12:4, Acts 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.

cont'd next post

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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2006, 02:50:41 PM »

Page Four

This is a decent point since it appears contradictory on the surface. However, Terah could have STARTED bearing at age 70 (following the pattern of the genealogy in which the childless years are mentioned first) and Abram could have been born last when Terah was 130. This is not unreasonable since Abram himself bore children later than that. (Genesis 17:17 indicates he was ten years older than Sarah. Genesis 23:1 says Sarah died at 127. Genesis 25:1-2 tells us that Abraham was still bearing children with his subsequent wife several years later.) Furthermore, Abraham's brother got married, had Lot, and died ALL before Abram got married. So Abram's brother, Haran, would have been MUCH older.

   1. Genesis 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, Exodus 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, Numbers 12:7-8,14:14, Job 42:5, Amos 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
   2. Exodus 33:20, John 1:18, 1John 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.

The amazing thing is that these verses resolve your confusion themselves! No one has seen God in all his glory. In Exodus, God hid Moses from seeing his face. Isaiah, John, and others saw a vision of God. God takes on a form (like a burning bush to Moses or a whirlwind to Job) before conversing with man.

# Genesis 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
# Genesis 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.

Genesis 10 is a genealogy that covers centuries. It includes the period before Babel when there was one language (described in chapter 11) and continues well after Babel detailing the divisions of languages that resulted from Babel.

   1. Genesis 16:15, 21:1-3, Galatians 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
   2. Hebrews 11:17 Abraham had only one son.

The passage in Hebrews is being chopping off midthought to create a contradiction. "He that received the promise offered up his only begotten son of whom it was said..." God had promised Isaac. Abraham got Ishmael outside of God's will.

   1. Genesis 17:1, 35:11, 1Chronicles 29:11-12, Luke 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
   2. Judges 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.

cont'd next post

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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2006, 02:52:24 PM »

Page Five

What is this supposed to mean?
Comments from Jonathan Sampson:

Let's look at the verse inwhich the Scoffer claims the contradiction sits:
Judges 1:19 (kjv)
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
This is an observation that I made in reading this page. Notice the Word of God states "the LORD was with Judah," not "the LORD was fighting along side Judah against the inhabitants of the valley." While reading this page, I've seen that this particular Scoffer often takes things out of context and omits valuable information in his/her postings. This seems to be another case. I did not find in my Bible that the LORD was fighting along side Judah, but instead that the LORD was with Judah. All through scripture it is made clear that trials, tribulation, persecution and other things strengthen our relationship with God. We learn to depend on Him. God never promised that life would be easy, to my knowledge, He only promised he would never leave us. And He never has. I have experienced many trials in my life. I've "won some and lost some," but the LORD has never left me. He's with me through thick and thin (Hebrews 13:5), victory and defeat. I am sure this is the case with Judah as well. NO CONTRADICTION!

   1. Genesis 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting.
   2. Galatians 6:15 It is of no consequence.

You are comparing the longevity of a covenant with its potency (apples and oranges). Circumcision is an everlasting covenant. But it is of no value in taking away sin. It never saved anybody.

   1. Genesis 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession."
   2. Genesis 25:8, Acts 7:2-5, Hebrews 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled.

Abraham was in possession of plenty of Canaan when he died. But you miss the point of the verse. The promised was to be fulfilled in Abraham AND his seed. One of the most amazingly fulfilled prophecies is the rebirth of the nation of Israel in their ancestral homeland.

   1. Genesis 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
   2. Leviticus 20:17, Deuteronomy 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.

So what? Good people can do wrong things. Besides, the laws you cite were not given till long after Abraham had died. Ex post facto laws.

   1. Genesis 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on.
   2. Proverbs 15:3, Jeremiah 16:17, 23:24-25, Hebrews 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

God went down to check out Sodom to give Abraham a chance to intercede for it, and to demonstrate the wickedness of the Sodomites; not because he was unable to check it out from heaven.

   1. Genesis 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
   2. 2Peter 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."

Remember whenever "righteous" is used of man, it is comparative. Good people are not always perfect. If your ONLY flaw was getting drunk for a couple of nights, I would say that you were pretty righteous too.

   1. Genesis 22:1-12, Deuteronomy 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
   2. Judges 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
   3. 1Corinthians 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
   4. James 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.

Note Hebrews 11:17. A better translation of the Greek "peirazo" is "tried" (or proved, tested). God examines us much like a master teacher...to demonstrate our faith (or lack thereof) and to mature us. James uses it in this sense earlier in the chapter (James 1:2-3). There is a very different Greek used in verse 13. "Peirasmos" means "a solicitation to do evil." It is based on our lusts or on Satanic seductions.

   1. Genesis 27:28 "May God give you ... an abundance of grain and new wine."
   2. Deuteronomy 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine.
   3. Psalms 104:5 God gives us wine to gladden the heart.
   4. Jeremiah 13:12 "... every bottle shall be filled with wine."
   5. John 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus' first miracle was turning water to wine.
   6. Romans 14:21 It is good to refrain from drinking wine.

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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2006, 02:53:44 PM »

Page Six

Once again you create a contradiction by screwing up the sentence. The point is not that there is anything wrong with eating certain meats or drinking wine. The problem is doing things needlessly that offend a Christian brother.

   1. Genesis 35:10 God says Jacob is to be called Jacob no longer; henceforth his name is Israel.
   2. Genesis 46:2 At a later time, God himself uses the name Jacob.

The Oriental tradition of changing names was to signify a watershed in someone's life. It was an official change. The point is NOT that God forbids everybody from calling him Jacob (in fact he is called Jacob just 4 verses later); rather the idea is that he would no longer be KNOWN as "deceiver" (Jacob) but as "God's fighter" (Israel).

   1. Genesis 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz.
   2. Genesis 36:15-16 Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz.
   3. 1Chronicles 1:35-36 Teman, Omar, Zephi, Gatam, Kenaz, Timna, and Amalek.

Take the time to read the passage carefully and you might just answer your own question. Genesis 36:12 adds Amalek (born by a concubine) to the list started in verse 11. You just plain miss Gatam and Amalek in Genesis 36:16. Later in the passage (perhaps adopted as a son) Timnah is added as a duke (Genesis 36:40). Therefore Genesis 36 matches Chronicles perfectly.

   1. Genesis 49:2-28 The fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel are: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin.
   2. Revelation 7:4-8 (Leaves out the tribe of Dan, but adds Manasseh.)

This is not a contradiction. It is a change. Some have postulated this change was because of the idolatry that was started in Dan, which eventually caused Israel to be judged and to go into bondage.

   1. Genesis 50:13 Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah bought from Ephron the Hittite.
   2. Acts 7:15-16 He was buried in the sepulchre at Shechem, bought from the sons of Hamor.

The sepulchre was a cave. (Note Genesis 23:6-9 where the original story is told.) Machpelah is the region that became Shechem. Again from the original story, we see that Abraham bought it from the sons of Hamor, specifically from Ephron who lived among them and had the field with the sepulchre. When Jacob returned to his ancestral homeland (Genesis 33:17-19) he found that children of Hamor had conquered and inhabited the region. He repurchased the field from Shechem's dad, Hamor.

   1. Exodus 3:1 Jethro was the father-in-law of Moses.
   2. Numbers 10:29, Judges 4:11 (KJV) Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses.

Many OT figures had two names. This was particularly common in the ancient traditions when one was leaving one clan to join another nation (Joseph in Egypt, Daniel in Babylon, etc.). Jethro was a Midianite. Likely he was given a Hebrew name when he joined the Israelites.

   1. Exodus 3:20-22, Deuteronomy 20:13-17 God instructs the Israelites to despoil the Egyptians, to plunder their enemies.
   2. Exodus 20:15, 17, Leviticus 19:13 God prohibits stealing, defrauding, or robbing a neighbor.

First, the rules of warfare are, and have always been distinct from the rules in society (shooting down an enemy plane is morally different from shooting my wife amidst an argument). Secondly, God made these laws for man, not for himself. He can take (or command to be taken) whatever He wants, anytime He wants. He is God.

[since this same objection is repeated below ad nauseum, I will only say "dittos" from now on]

   1. Exodus 4:11 God decides who will be dumb, deaf, blind, etc.
   2. 2Corinthians 13:11, 14, 1John 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.

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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2006, 02:56:39 PM »

Page Seven

Sickness, disease, suffering, and death are a result of sin and man's rebellion against God. God in justice judged the world. God in love provides a means of salvation so that we can live in bliss with Him. Perhaps YOU do not think that this is "loving" enough for you. But you are not a HOLY God who has been offended by sin.

   1. Exodus 9:3-6 God destroys all the cattle (including horses) belonging to the Egyptians.
   2. Exodus 9:9-11 The people and the cattle are afflicted with boils.
   3. Exodus 12:12, 29 All the first-born of the cattle of the Egyptians are destroyed.
   4. Exodus 14:9 After having all their cattle destroyed, then afflicted with boils, and then their first-born cattle destroyed, the Egyptians pursue Moses on horseback.

You first premise is wrong. The murrain was on the cattle and the horses (Exodus 9:3). No doubt many of them died. However, verse six states that all the cattle died. It does not include the horses, asses, camels etc.

   1. Exodus 12:13 The Israelites have to mark their houses with blood in order for God to see which houses they occupy and "pass over" them.
   2. Proverbs 15:3, Jeremiah 16:17, 23:24-25, Hebrews 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from God.

God does not say He needed the blood to SEE WHICH house was occupied by Israelites. He promised that WHEN He saw the blood, he would pass by that house (including, no doubt, some believing Egyptians).

   1. Exodus 12:37, Numbers 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as more than 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of about 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt.
   2. 1Kings 20:15 All the Israelites, including children, number only 7000 at a later time.

This is height of absurdity. First of all, the nation of Israel was split into two kingdoms at the time of I Kings 20. Secondly, the context is that king Ahab was besieged in Samaria (capital of the northern kingdom), and therefore could only count everybody in the city. Thirdly, he was counting ALL the children of Israel available for battle (verse 14).

   1. Exodus 15:3, 17:16, Numbers 25:4, 32:14, Isaiah 42:13 God is a man of war--he is fierce and angry.
   2. Romans 15:33, 2Corinthians 13:11, 14, 1John 4:8, 16 God is a god of love and peace.

God is characterized by both. So was Ronald Reagan. So what?

   1. Exodus 20:1-17 God gave the law directly to Moses (without using an intermediary).
   2. Galatians 3:19 The law was ordained through angels by a mediator (an intermediary).

Just because Exodus 20 does not mention angels does not mean they played no role. Nowhere does it say he did not use an intermediary. (Note that the ten commandments in stone were said to be literally etched by God's finger.)

   1. Exodus 20:4 God prohibits the making of any graven images whatsoever.
   2. Exodus 25:18 God enjoins the making of two graven images.

Yet again you stop mid-sentence, wrest it out of context, and manufacture a contradiction. Read before and after in Exodus 20. God was not forbidding someone from whittling or doing sculpture work! He is talking about making up a god, then engraving it, and then worshipping it.

   1. Exodus 20:5, 34:7, Numbers 14:18, Deuteronomy 5:9, Isaiah 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent's sins.
   2. Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.

You are confusing at least three different concepts. When a NATION had become so corrupt that God was going to completely wipe it out (Isaiah 14) obviously all, young and old, would suffer this judgment. Under the law of Moses, God (not society) would punish a HOUSEHOLD to the third and fourth generation for the parent's sins. Perhaps this was a result of the way households were structured and the collective way decisions were carried out. Ezekiel 18:1-3 indicates that the SOCIETAL RULE was to be changed so that children would not die for the parent's sin. This is not a contradiction. It is an attempt to change something that should not have been going on in Israeli society (Deuteronomy 24:16).

   1. Exodus 20:8-11, 31:15-17, 35:1-3 No work is to be done on the Sabbath, not even lighting a fire. The commandment is permanent, and death is required for infractions.
   2. Mark 2:27-28 Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (after his disciples were criticized for breaking the Sabbath).
   3. Romans 14:5, Colossians 2:14-16 Paul says the Sabbath commandment was temporary, and to decide for yourself regarding its observance.

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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2006, 02:58:16 PM »

Page Eight

The disciples did not do work. They violated the Pharisees guidelines. Christ fulfilled the law, and the ceremonial portions stopped being in effect at his death. This is the change Paul references in Galatians 3:24-25. It is not a contradiction.

   1. Exodus 20:12, Deuteronomy 5:16, Matthew 15:4, 19:19, Mark 7:10, 10:19, Luke 18:20 Honor your father and your mother is one of the ten commandments. It is reinforced by Jesus.
   2. Matthew 10:35-37, Luke 12:51-53, 14:26 Jesus says that he has come to divide families; that a man's foes will be those of his own household; that you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even your own life to be a disciple.
   3. Matthew 23:9 Jesus says to call no man on earth your father.

You can still honor someone that you hate. So there is no contradiction even if one ignorantly believes Christ is saying we are to dislike our parents. However, the English word hate poorly captures the comparative nature of what Christ said. When considered next to our love for God, our love for our parents (and even ourselves) should dim to nothing in comparison.

   1. Exodus 20:14 God prohibits adultery.
   2. Hosea 1:2 God instructs Hosea to "take a wife of harlotry."

Hosea did not commit adultery (his wife had, but not him). Where is the contradiction?

   1. Exodus 21:23-25, Leviticus 24:20, Deuteronomy 19:21 A life for a life, an eye for an eye, etc.
   2. Matthew 5:38-44, Luke 6:27-29 Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies.

Please! How can Christ be more clear? He plainly is changing the law to initiate the age of grace in which we now live. READ the whole passage.

   1. Exodus 34:6, Deuteronomy 7:9-10, Titus 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
   2. Numbers 14:30 God breaks his promise.

God made a promise to bring the nation of Israel into Canaan. He took them up to the edge and (with a couple of exceptions) they rebelled and decided not to go in. Therefore God fulfilled his promise in the next generation. God never promised that EVERY individual that left Egypt would get to Canaan. Many died for various reasons in the wilderness. Even Moses did not make it in.

   1. Exodus 34:6, Deuteronomy 7:9-10, Titus 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
   2. 1Kings 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.

God PERMITS evil spirits and evil men to do much harm. That does not mean he is untruthful or condones their actions.

   1. Exodus 34:6, Deuteronomy 7:9-10, Titus 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
   2. 2Thessalonians 2:11-12 God deludes people, making them believe what is false, so as to be able to condemn them. (Note: some versions use the word persuade here. The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

Since when have you become concerned about context? God's patience is long, but it has limits. After several miracles in which Pharoah hardened his heart, God hardened Pharoah's heart so that he COULD not repent (Exodus 10:1-2). The context clearly indicates that these people had ample opportunity to repent; yet they had chosen the lie of Satan (vs 9) over the truth of God (vs 10 and vs 12). Therefore, in vs 11 God gives them over to a life of delusion. This is not God lying to them or deceiving them. It is God permanently sealing the fate that THEY decided upon.

   1. Exodus 34:6-7, Joshua 24:19, 1Chronicles 16:34 God is faithful, holy and good.
   2. Isaiah 45:6-7, Lamentations 3:8, Amos 3:6 God is responsible for evil.

There are two senses in which evil is used in the KJV. One involves a moral failure on the part of someone. The other is a misfortune that befalls someone. God causes the second to happen, but not the first. Some have argued that God did wrong to even create the potential of evil. However, it is not possible to make light shine without there being darkness. Similarly, it is not possible for God to have created "good" without the potential for "evil." To do otherwise would have been to create an amoral robotic machinery with no will.

   1. Exodus 34:6-7, Hebrews 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven.
   2. Jeremiah 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven.

You once again confuse multiple issues. God judges sin. As Exodus 34 states, the consequences do not stop just because the sin is forgiven (see also II Samuel 12:13-14). God knows everything and never forgets as way we do. Yet, once sins are forgiven, He chooses to never again bring it up to be used against the sinner.

The second issue is the difference between the way sin was treated under the law. It was never wiped out and required annual sacrifices as a memorial of this limitation. Sin was merely covered temporarily by the sacrifice of blood, awaiting the coming perfect sacrifice that would wash away all sin. Jeremiah speaks prophetically of this time. (Read the beginning of the chapter.) It was fulfilled in Christ. This difference is highlighted as Hebrews 10:3 is contrasted with Hebrews 10:17.

   1. Leviticus 3:17 God himself prohibits forever the eating of blood and fat.
   2. Matthew 15:11, Colossians 2:20-22 Jesus and Paul say that such rules don't matter?they are only human injunctions.

Neither Jesus or Paul discuss eating fat or blood. Christ was making the point that you do not get sinful inside by eating with dirty hands. Sin starts in the mind and works out. Paul was combating legalists and Judaizers that delighted in an ascetic lifestyle, adding a lot of unnecessary man-made laws as a means of being more righteous.

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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2006, 03:00:10 PM »

Page Nine

   1.  Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 22:39 Love your neighbor [as much as] yourself.
   2. 1Corinthians 10:24 Put your neighbor ahead of yourself.

One is a heart attitude (love) and the other is the practical follow through of it (self-sacrifice). Both go hand-in-hand.

   1. Leviticus 21:10 The chief priest is not to rend his clothes.
   2. Matthew 26:65, Mark 14:63 He does so during the trial of Jesus.

Bad chief priest! So what? (He did far worse than that in seeking to kill Christ.)

   1. Leviticus 25:37, Psalms 15:1, 5 It is wrong to lend money at interest.
   2. Matthew 25:27, Luke 19:23-27 It is wrong to lend money without interest.

In the ceremonial law instituted in the economy of Israel, God made interest on loans illegal. In telling the parable of this austere lord, Christ never indicates whether charging interest is right or wrong. However, the era of the ceremonial law ended (and with it the prohibition on charging interest) after Christ.

   1. Numbers 11:33 God inflicts sickness.
   2. Job 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness.

So what?
Comments from Jonathan Sampson:

Let's look at the two verses more carefully:
Numbers 11:33 (kjv)
And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague.

Job 2:7 (kjv)
So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
This "contradiction" is a clear and precise example of how desperate Scoffers are to make the Word of God look like anything less than Divinely-inspired material. Any rational person would clearly understand that both of these passages are relating to specific instances by both entities. God has indeed smote some people throughout history, and Satan has also smote some people. It's important to state that neither of the two passages claim that ALL SICKNESS is from God, nor does it state that ALL SICKNESS is from Satan. NO CONTRADICTION!

   1. Numbers 15:24-28 Sacrifices can, in at least some case, take away sin.
   2. Hebrews 10:11 They never take away sin.

See above. In the OT, forgiven sins were merely *covered* by a blood sacrifice in anticipation of being taken away when Christ died.

   1. Numbers 25:9 24,000 died in the plague.
   2. 1Corinthians 10:8 23,000 died in the plague.

Read the passages! 23,000 died in ONE DAY. 24,000 died in the entire plague. So 1,000 died later, no contradiction.

   1. Numbers 30:2 God enjoins the making of vows (oaths).
   2. Matthew 5:33-37 Jesus forbids doing so, saying that they arise from evil (or the Devil).

Once again, Christ fulfilled and changed the OT law. He is very clear that He is making a change. There is no contradiction.

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« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2006, 03:01:17 PM »

ANSWERED CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE

   1. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 A false prophet is one whose words do not come true. Death is required.
   2. Ezekiel 14:9 A prophet who is deceived, is deceived by God himself. Death is still required.

You misunderstand Ezekiel 14 just like you did II Thessalonians 2:11. Regardless, there is no contradiction here. A contradiction would require God letting him off.

   1. Deuteronomy 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
   2. Isaiah 56:4-5 Some castrates will receive special rewards.

So what? A guy with a machine gun is not allowed into the White House. Some guys with machine guns got purple hearts from the president.

   1. Deuteronomy 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
   2. Matthew 19:12 Men are encouraged to consider making themselves castrates for the sake of the Kingdom of God.

You mischaracterize Matthew 19. But regardless, there is no contradiction.

   1. Deuteronomy 24:1-5 A man can divorce his wife simply because she displeases him and both he and his wife can remarry.
   2. Mark 10:2-12 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.

Christ changed the law and was very clear that He was initiating a change. A change is not a contradiction.

   1. Deuteronomy 30:11-20 It is possible to keep the law.
   2. Romans 3:20-23 It is not possible to keep the law.

Deuteronomy makes the point that the law is clear and plain so that we can understand and no excuse not to keep it. It never says a man will be able to go through his whole life perfectly and never break a single commandment. Paul's point is that no man has done that. Indeed, that is why sacrifices are an integral part of the law.

   1. Joshua 11:20 God shows no mercy to some.
   2. Luke 6:36, James 5:11 God is merciful.

To the contrary, God had mercy on the Amorites for many years (Genesis 15:16) till their iniquities reached a point that God determined to wipe them out (Joshua 11).

   1. Judges 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him.
   2. Judges 5:25-27 Sisera was standing.

It does not say that he was standing when she killed him. It only says that after she hit him in the head (v25) he bowed, fell down, tried to rise again and fell again. Sounds like death throes to me.

   1. Joshua 10:38-40 Joshua himself captured Debir.
   2. Judges 1:11-15 It was Othniel, who thereby obtained the hand of Caleb's daughter, Achsah.

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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2006, 03:02:37 PM »

Page Two

Does Zathras even try to understand the passage? Are these mistakes purposefully misunderstood or just massive incompetence? Joshua made a pass through the land with his whole army, wiping out all of the strongholds and destroying their cities. However, some of the cities were rebuilt by the inhabitants and needed to be reconquered. This second conquest of a weakened Debir could be performed by a small band led by Othniel. Judges starts off by saying that this event occurred AFTER Joshua died. The parallel passage is Joshua 15:16, not Joshua 10:38-40. READ the scriptures!

   1. 1Samuel 8:2-22 Samuel informs God as to what he has heard from others.
   2. Proverbs 15:3, Jeremiah 16:17, 23:24-25, Hebrews 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees and hears everything.

So what? God delights to hear from us just like I delight to have my little boy come running up to me, exclaiming about something that I already know.

   1. 1Samuel 9:15-17 The Lord tells Samuel that Saul has been chosen to lead the Israelites and will save them from the Philistines.
   2. 1Samuel 15:35 The Lord is sorry that he has chosen Saul.
   3. 1Samuel 31:4-7 Saul commits suicide and the Israelites are overrun by the Philistines.

First of all, God does not say Saul will save them from the Philistines; only that he was chosen to do the job. I Samuel 14:47-48 and subsequent chapters indicate that for a considerable time he was successful in performing this role. Ultimately, however, he fails to obey God and falls himself to the Philistines. Is this supposed to be God's fault?

   1. 1Samuel 15:7-8, 20 The Amalekites are utterly destroyed.
   2. 1Samuel 27:8-9 They are utterly destroyed (again?).
   3. 1Samuel 30:1, 17-18 They raid Ziklag and David smites them (again?).

Firstly, I Samuel 15:9 indicates they were selective about their destruction, in disobedience to God's command. Secondly, when a nation is "utterly destroyed" it does not mean that EVERY person of that nationality (some of whom might not have even been in the area at the time) was killed. Undoubtedly there were some few who escaped or were traveling elsewhere that over the years returned and rebuilt their tribal homeland. In the first campaign they occupy a large kingdom of many cities. In the second instance they are individual cities that are weak enough to be conquered by David's outlaw band.

   1. 1Samuel 16:10-11, 17:12 Jesse had seven sons plus David, or eight total.
   2. 1Chronicles 2:13-15 He had seven total.

These were times of ongoing warfare and Jesse's sons were right in the middle of it. Is it any surprise that he lost one by the time the genealogies were recorded in Chronicles?

   1. 1Samuel 16:19-23 Saul knew David well before the latter's encounter with Goliath.
   2. 1Samuel 17:55-58 Saul did not know David at the time of his encounter with Goliath and had to ask about David's identity.

Saul saw David before the battle (I Samuel 17:38). Verses 55-58 do not say Saul did not know David. It says Saul asked WHOSE SON David was. Likely he had forgotten Jesse?s name (even though he had sent a couple of messages to Jesse in the earlier passage).

   1. 1Samuel 17:50 David killed Goliath with a slingshot.
   2. 1Samuel 17:51 David killed Goliath (again?) with a sword.

Any Sunday School kid could straighten you out on this one. Goliath fell face down and David had to make sure he was dead by cutting off his head. It is called "finishing him off."
Comments from Jonathan Sampson:

David was doing as he said in 17:46. Simply doing as he had promised Goliath.
1Samuel 17:46 (kjv) David speaking to Goliath:
This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.

   1. 1Samuel 17:50 David killed Goliath.
   2. 2Samuel 21:19 Elhanan killed Goliath. (Note: Some translations insert the words "the brother of" before Elhanan. These are an addition to the earliest manuscripts in an apparent attempt to rectify this inconsistency.) [Good reason to stick with the KJV!]

Since when have you become concerned about the original manuscripts? Clearly the giant of II Samuel 21:19 is a different person since the timeframes are totally different and since the second is called "the Gittite." Perhaps these four were sons of Goliath (seems to be implied in vs 22) and one of them was named after his dad.

   1. 1Samuel 21:1-6 Ahimalech was high priest when David ate the bread.
   2. Mark 2:26 Abiathar was high priest at the time.

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« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2006, 03:03:50 PM »

Page Three

Abiathar was the high priest. His dad, Ahimelech, is not called the high priest in I Samuel 21. At that time, he is merely described as a priest. (He may have been the ex-high priest in an arrangement like Caiphas and Annas at the time of Christ.)

   1. 1Samuel 28:6 Saul inquired of the Lord, but received no answer.
   2. 1Chronicles 10:13-14 Saul died for not inquiring of the Lord.

Saul is a perfect illustration of Proverbs 1:24-26. The I Chronicles passage says Saul died for several things, including a pattern of not inquiring of the Lord. He did not change his ways until it was too late and God's judgment was already at the door.

   1. 1Samuel 31:4-6 Saul killed himself by falling on his sword.
   2. 2Samuel 2:2-10 Saul, at his own request, was slain by an Amalekite.
   3. 2Samuel 21:12 Saul was killed by the Philistines on Gilboa.
   4. 1Chronicles 10:13-14 Saul was slain by God.

God directed the death of Saul, as we detailed above. God used the Philistines to carry out his judgment. There is no contradiction to say "Saul was slain by the Philistines" since he committed suicide just as they were closing in to wipe him out. I believe you erred in one of your reference. Perhaps you meant II Samuel 1:2-10? Here the Amalekite lied through his teeth in hopes of a reward.

   1. 2Samuel 6:23 Michal was childless.
   2. 2Samuel 21:8 (KJV) She had five sons.

Poor KJV translation. It was Michal's sister.
Comments from Jonathan Sampson:

I disagree on the claim that this is a poor translation by the KJV. There is no contradiction here. Michal and Merab (Michal's older sister) were both a part in this, obviously. Merab (the wife of Adriel according to I Samuel 18:19) more than likely had the children with Adriel, and Michal (who was in love with David according to I Samuel 18:20, and later married David according to I Samuel 18:27) "brought up" (IISamuel 21:Cool the boys just as the KJV says. My aunt brought up my younger sister, although she was born by my birth mother.

   1. 2Samuel 24:1 The Lord inspired David to take the census.
   2. 1Chronicles 21:1 Satan inspired the census.

Again, poor KJV translation in II Samuel 24:1. God permitted it, but Satan inspired it.

   1. 2Samuel 24:9 The census count was: Israel 800,000 and Judah 500,000.
   2. 1Chronicles 21:5 The census count was: Israel 1,100,000 and Judah 470,000.

It could be that there were a few different numbers floating around wonder since I Chronicles 21:6 indicates that Joab purposely did a sloppy job and miscounted whole tribes since he found the king's command abominable. But the discrepancy can be resolved if we consider what was included and excluded in each count. Note that the 800,000 of Israel probably did not include the standing army of 288,000 described in I Chronicles 27:1-15 or the 12,000 specifically attached to the capital (II Chronicles 1:14). Conversely, the 470,000 count likely did not include the 30,000 in Judah's standing army (II Samuel 6:1).

   1. 2Samuel 24:10-17 David sinned in taking the census.
   2. 1Kings 15:5 David's only sin (ever) was in regard to another matter.

I Kings 15:5 does not say David sinned only once. It says he deliberately broke God's command (likely referencing the ten commandments) only that one time.

   1. 2Samuel 24:24 David paid 50 shekels of silver for the purchase of a property.
   2. 1Chronicles 21:22-25 He paid 600 shekels of gold.

On the surface this certainly appears to be contradictory. However, consider that 50 shekels of silver was paltry (reference Exodus 21:32) to pay for a site that was later to become the temple mount. However, it might be an appropriate figure to pay for a yoke of oxen. I Chronicles seems to indicate that the initial discussion was about the property. Ornan then offered David the oxen too. II Samuel 24:24 says he bought the property and the oxen for 50 shekels of silver. Perhaps it would be best rendered: David bought the property; and he also bought the oxen for an additional 50 shekels of silver.

   1. 1Kings 3:12 God made Solomon the wisest man that ever lived, yet ....
   2. 1Kings 11:1-13 Solomon loved many foreign women (against God's explicit prohibition) who turned him to other gods (for which he deserved death).

Having wisdom and deciding to use it to make the proper decision are two totally different things. It is like having money and knowing how to invest it well. One of the perennial themes of tragic drama is the character who knows better and makes the fatal mistake anyway.

   1. 1Kings 3:12, 4:29, 10:23-24, 2Chronicles 9:22-23 God made Solomon the wisest king and the wisest man that ever lived. There never has been nor will be another like him.
   2. Matthew 12:42, Luke 11:31 Jesus says: "... now one greater than Solomon is here."

Firstly, you are contrasting "wisdom" and "greatness" (apples and oranges). Secondly, there never was another man as wise as Solomon. Christ was God in the flesh and cannot be considered a mere man.

   1. 1Kings 4:26 Solomon had 40,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
   2. 2Chronicles 9:25 He had 4,000 horses (or stalls for horses).

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« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2006, 03:04:55 PM »

Page Four

Once again you fail to simply read scripture. Like anything else, this number changed over time. The passage in Kings takes place before the temple is built while the passage in Chronicles takes place many years later. The parallel passage to II Chronicles 9:25 is I Kings 10:26.
Comments from Dr. Hovind:

Many scoffers have cited I Kings 4:26 "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen" and II Chron. 9:25 "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen" as a contradiction. There is no contradiction. He had 40,000 stalls for horses yet only 4,000 stalls for the chariots. They had 10 men and 10 horses per chariot in case they got a "flat tire." See II Sam 10:18 "And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians," and I Chron. 119:18 "But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots," to show the same point. The men of 700 chariots would be 7000 men.

   1. 1Kings 5:16 Solomon had 3,300 supervisors.
   2. 2Chronicles 2:2 He had 3,600 supervisors.

The passage in I Kings specifically excludes the "chief officers" of which there were likely 300.

   1. 1Kings 7:15-22 The two pillars were 18 cubits high.
   2. 2Chronicles 3:15-17 They were 35 cubits high.

This would seem to be a pretty blatant mistake to make (getting the measurement wrong by twice). Let's consider the wording carefully. The I Kings passage says that "he cast two pillars of brass, of 18 cubits high APIECE..." The book of Kings further indicates at the time of the destruction of the temple (II Kings 25:16) that "the height of ONE pillar was 18 cubits..." the identical language is found in Jeremiah 52:20-21. II Chronicles uses slightly different language: "he made before the house TWO pillars of thirty and five cubits high..." Perhaps the author added them together to come up with a combined height. Since they were molten, formed from clay casts in the ground, perhaps they originally were formed and measured end to end (I Kings 7:46).

   1. 1Kings 7:26 Solomon's "molten sea" held 2000 "baths" (1 bath = about 8 gallons).
   2. 2Chronicles 4:5 It held 3000 "baths."

Both are correct. It "received and held" up to 3000 baths (Chronicles). Kings says it "contained" 2000 baths. Apparently they did not make a practice of filling it to the top, perhaps keeping it convenient for the washing.

   1. 1Kings 8:12, 2Chronicles 6:1, Psalms 18:11 God dwells in thick darkness.
   2. 1Timothy 6:16 God dwells in unapproachable light.

I dwell in New Hampshire AND in the United States AND in the world. Some of these places are more or less bright. God dwells in heaven in unapproachable light. Between the third heaven and earth is both a boundary of complete darkness so that no man would ever be able to see through it and the darkness of outer space. A good illustration of how God dwells in intense light within a protective sphere of darkness is Exodus 19:21, Exodus 20:21 and Exodus 24:15-18.

   1. 1Kings 8:13, Acts 7:47 Solomon, whom God made the wisest man ever, built his temple as an abode for God.
   2. Acts 7:48-49 God does not dwell in temples built by men.

But God did visit the temple in a special way. In the end, the temple was more a place for man to go to commune with God than a house in which God could live on this earth. However, if I knew that God would similarly visit a house that I built, I would happily spend the rest of my life building it for Him.

   1. 1Kings 9:28 420 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.
   2. 2Chronicles 8:18 450 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.

There were MANY trips to Ophir to get gold. I Chronicles 29:4 indicates that 3,000 talents of gold from Ophir were stored up just to prepare for the temple construction!

   1. 1Kings 15:14 Asa did not remove the high places.
   2. 2Chronicles 14:2-3 He did remove them.

The Chronicles passage describes his cleansing of the cities in Judah (see vs 5). In chapter 15 he proceeds to cleanse Benjamin and portions of Ephraim of its idolatrous high places as well (15:Cool. However, the chapter ends like the passage in I Kings. Verse 17 indicates that he did not cleanse the remainder of the land. Perhaps he even permitted some to reappear in Judah by the end of his reign. (They went up and down quite regularly in those days.)

   1. 1Kings 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa's reign.
   2. 2Chronicles 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign.

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