Salvation Contradictions?

[Soldier4Christ]

But if I was saved, why did God draw me? Perhaps he drew me just so the preacher could reassure me?

It could have been for the reassurance it also may have been because the Lord felt you weren't walking closely enough with him and had you under conviction for that.

Also, what would have caused me to feel uneasy after I had just went to the altar? Was it Satan?

I can only venture to guess but I would say that was probably the case.

[Supercryptid]

It could have been for the reassurance it also may have been because the Lord felt you weren't walking closely enough with him and had you under conviction for that.

That's certainly possible. I can think of certain things that I was doing then that I shouldn't have been doing.

Thanks for all of this.

[nChrist]

Even before that particular day of being drawn to the alter, I thought that I was, in fact, a Christian. Even before the drawing I had confessed my sins, and I believe I felt the Holy Ghost from time to time. Now if I wasn't saved before I went to the alter, why would I have felt the Holy Ghost (I'm pretty sure I did)? If I was saved before I went to the alter, then why would God have drawn me at all? When I went to the alter, my preacher said that he believed that I was already saved, and that the Devil may try to confuse me into thinking I'm not saved. But if I was saved, why did God draw me? Perhaps he drew me just so the preacher could reassure me? That is the one and only time I can ever remember feeling that drawing. It was something powerful. Also, what would have caused me to feel uneasy after I had just went to the altar? Was it Satan?

Hello Supercryptid,

I think that the answer to your question is probably YES. The devil wants all Christians to doubt, mainly because the devil wants Christians to live defeated and unproductive. 100% Assurance of Salvation causes a Christian to grow strong in the LORD and positively effect everyone around them. This is exactly the opposite of what the devil wants. There are no human words to describe the peace, joy, strength, and VICTORY that is possible in JESUS. We don't depend on our strength, rather we depend on the STRENGTH OF JESUS. We grow and become stronger in CHRIST when we yield to His Will, study the Bible, pray, and make JESUS the focus of our lives. Our confidence is in JESUS, not ourselves. The devil doesn't like any of this, and he will do anything he can to stop it. DOUBT is the easiest and most frequent tool for the devil to use.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 10:23-25 NASB  Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

[colonel]

Dear Friend in Jesus;

the understanding here lies in the New Testemant Church, and the layout of the Bible.

the four Gospels are the life and ministry of Jesus

the Book of Acts is the growing of the new Church

the Epistles are letters to churches that already have saints

so in the NT the place to look would be in the Book of Acts and see how they preached and how they received salvation.

[Allinall]

This is a very interesting thread.  I believe that the answer to your initial question is simply: By Grace Through Faith.  Salvation has always been by God's grace and through our faith.  It's His grace that grants us opportunity.  It's His grace that "calls" us to His throne and shows us our need, His provision, and even the faith we need to repent and believe Him.  Uniquely, it's not believing in God.  The demons also believe and tremble!  It's about believing God!  If we believe that He sent His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to live the perfect life and die the perfect sacrifice on our behalf, to be buried and risen again on the third day - then we have saving grace.

We don't believe without hearing.  We don't hear without His own people telling us of God's grace.  We come to know of our need when God extends His grace for us to see our need.  We come to know Him when we take Him for His word and believe. 

"FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH"

[Chaplain Bob]

When I look at the scripture, I seem to find different things said about salvation. For instance, look at these verses:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." ~John 3:16

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." ~John 3:18

These verses seem to suggest that the only requirement for salvation is belief in Jesus. It offers no other specific conditions. Then I take a look at verses like these:

The only requirement for salvation is to repent (turn around from your old ways) and choose to follow God.  We are then saved by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.[/b]

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ~John 6:44

"Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." ~John 6:65

These verses seem to suggest that a person cannot be saved simply by believing in Jesus. It offers the condition that a person must be drawn by God in order to achieve salvation.

What can we make of this? Is it simply a belief in Jesus that saves, or is it required that we are drawn by God first, then we can be saved through this belief?

These verses are simply explaining how we are drawn to make the decision I mentioned above.

Now I don't mean to expose my preacher's business in a bad light, but he did tell us (the church) a story that is relevant to this issue. He said that before he was truly saved, he came to Jesus and asked for salvation. According to him, Jesus said no! Apparently, he was not yet drawn by God, or the Holy Spirit. Why would Jesus have rejected him? It might have been because he wasn't willing to completely surrender to God, but I can't remember the real reason (if he even told it to us).

There is no Scriptural support for the idea that Jesus would reject anyone who comes to Him.

He says that Jesus has to accept us before we are saved. Now I have been drawn by the Spirit, I did go to the alter, and I did confess my sins and ask for forgiveness. Even after all of this, how do I know that Jesus has accepted me? After I left church that day, it still felt like something was wrong. I don't know what exactly. Was it because Jesus didn't accept me? I don't feel the peace that I have heard others speak of. I sometimes feel like I'm going crazy because I constantly wonder whether I have been thinking a particular bad thought long enough for it to be considered a sin. I end up asking for forgiveness for everything 24/7. It's very stressful.

You know Jesus accepted you because the Bible says Jesus has accepted you if you've made the decision in your heart to follow God.  Your salvation is a fact not a feeling.

[Evangelist]

One scripture that I didn't see that *I think* explains it all.

Rev. 3:20.

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock..."

Which is simply that Jesus (as God) reveals Himself in truth to you...but doesn't demand entrance.  He told Peter that Pete's understanding of who He really was (the Son of God, the Christ) was NOT revealed to him by flesh and blood, but by the Father in heaven. 

"...if ANY man hears me (understands this revelation of truth), and INVITES me in (responds to the truth in acknowledgement), then I will come in to him (enter his dwelling.....heart), and will sup with him, and he with Me..."

Your originally posted scriptures, as has been said, do NOT pose a contradiction when viewed in light of ALL of what Jesus said.

God draws man by revealing the truth....John 17..."howbeit when He, the spirit of truth is come, He shall convince (reveal the truth) men of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come..."

No man can understand the truth without this revelation and conviction....but when it is revealed, and the person is convicted, then they respond...either by keeping the door closed, or by opening it....and when it is opened, it becomes a door that no man (or anything else, for that matter) can shut.

[nChrist]

Amen Evangelist!

Brother Hank, I enjoyed your post, as usual. In reading this thread, I'm thinking about many Christians who continually live in doubt of their Salvation. It is my firm belief that God wants us to KNOW that we are saved so that we can grow, become strong in JESUS, and be confident witnesses wanting and ready for GOD to use us. We all know this would be the last thing that the devil wants.

I know that the devil uses exhortations for Christian living and Christian testimony to confuse many Christians. Good works and sin are also used by the devil to confuse Christians to make them doubt their Salvation and leave them WEAK and DEFEATED. The devil knows that all Christians have certain weaknesses that can be exploited, and he does just that. On the other side of the coin is a strong Christian who realizes that he or she is not perfect, does sin and stumble from time to time, and does feel unworthy to be used by GOD. The difference for this strong Christian is prayer for forgiveness, asking for another measure of God's Grace, asking God for strength and guidance, and humbly telling God, "LORD, I want to do Your Will - help me to be fit for your use."

So, it's really not whether a Christian loses Salvation or not, rather a matter of whether a Christian is strong and wanting to do the Will of the LORD. Salvation isn't lost, but varying levels of JOY in JESUS during this short life are rejected by the weak and defeated Christian. "That our joy might be more full" is only one reason why a Christian should strive for a pleasing testimony before men and good works that serve our LORD. We don't do these things for Salvation because that was a gift from GOD and paid for by JESUS on the Cross. We do these things because we love GOD with all of our heart, and we want to show our appreciation to JESUS CHRIST in whatever way  that GOD leads us.

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 104:33-34 NASB  I will sing to the LORD as long as I live; I will sing praise to my God while I have my being.  Let my meditation be pleasing to Him; As for me, I shall be glad in the LORD.

[Allinall]

One scripture that I didn't see that *I think* explains it all.

Rev. 3:20.

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock..."

Which is simply that Jesus (as God) reveals Himself in truth to you...but doesn't demand entrance.  He told Peter that Pete's understanding of who He really was (the Son of God, the Christ) was NOT revealed to him by flesh and blood, but by the Father in heaven. 

"...if ANY man hears me (understands this revelation of truth), and INVITES me in (responds to the truth in acknowledgement), then I will come in to him (enter his dwelling.....heart), and will sup with him, and he with Me..."

Your originally posted scriptures, as has been said, do NOT pose a contradiction when viewed in light of ALL of what Jesus said.

God draws man by revealing the truth....John 17..."howbeit when He, the spirit of truth is come, He shall convince (reveal the truth) men of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come..."

No man can understand the truth without this revelation and conviction....but when it is revealed, and the person is convicted, then they respond...either by keeping the door closed, or by opening it....and when it is opened, it becomes a door that no man (or anything else, for that matter) can shut.

Brother!  AMEN!!

[Shammu]

One scripture that I didn't see that *I think* explains it all.
Rev. 3:20.

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock..."

Which is simply that Jesus (as God) reveals Himself in truth to you...but doesn't demand entrance.  He told Peter that Pete's understanding of who He really was (the Son of God, the Christ) was NOT revealed to him by flesh and blood, but by the Father in heaven. 

"...if ANY man hears me (understands this revelation of truth), and INVITES me in (responds to the truth in acknowledgement), then I will come in to him (enter his dwelling.....heart), and will sup with him, and he with Me..."

Your originally posted scriptures, as has been said, do NOT pose a contradiction when viewed in light of ALL of what Jesus said.

God draws man by revealing the truth....John 17..."howbeit when He, the spirit of truth is come, He shall convince (reveal the truth) men of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come..."

No man can understand the truth without this revelation and conviction....but when it is revealed, and the person is convicted, then they respond...either by keeping the door closed, or by opening it....and when it is opened, it becomes a door that no man (or anything else, for that matter) can shut.

AMEN brother AMEN!!

[Chaplain Bob]

When I look at the scripture, I seem to find different things said about salvation. For instance, look at these verses:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." ~John 3:16

In this verse "believe" means "put your trust in" or "cling to" not believe something about Jesus.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." ~John 3:18

These are the people who reject God's plan of salvation after being presented with the Gospel

These verses seem to suggest that the only requirement for salvation is belief in Jesus. It offers no other specific conditions. Then I take a look at verses like these:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ~John 6:44

It is the Spirit of God who draws people to accept salvation whether they have heard the Gospel or discovered God through His creation

"Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." ~John 6:65

Ultimately it is God who causes our hearts to turn to Him when we hear the Gospel of see Him in His creation.

These verses seem to suggest that a person cannot be saved simply by believing in Jesus. It offers the condition that a person must be drawn by God in order to achieve salvation.

What can we make of this? Is it simply a belief in Jesus that saves, or is it required that we are drawn by God first, then we can be saved through this belief?

Not drawn by God FIRST - drawn by God AFTER we hear the Gospel or see Him in His creation

Now I don't mean to expose my preacher's business in a bad light, but he did tell us (the church) a story that is relevant to this issue. He said that before he was truly saved, he came to Jesus and asked for salvation. According to him, Jesus said no!  He was mistaken.  Back to John 3:16   Apparently, he was not yet drawn by God, or the Holy Spirit. Why would Jesus have rejected him? It might have been because he wasn't willing to completely surrender to God, but I can't remember the real reason (if he even told it to us).

He says that Jesus has to accept us before we are saved. Now I have been drawn by the Spirit, I did go to the alter, and I did confess my sins and ask for forgiveness. Even after all of this, how do I know that Jesus has accepted me?  Because the Bible says He has.   After I left church that day, it still felt like something was wrong. I don't know what exactly. Was it because Jesus didn't accept me? I don't feel the peace that I have heard others speak of. I sometimes feel like I'm going crazy because I constantly wonder whether I have been thinking a particular bad thought long enough for it to be considered a sin. I end up asking for forgiveness for everything 24/7. It's very stressful.

Relax.  You're saved if you have repented (turned from your old ways) and chosen to follow God.  The blood of Jesus paid for your sins past, present and future. 

[Kelly4Jesus]

BlessedX2 said: Hi, I just wanted to say that I believe the drawing happens first... I think that if God does not draw us to himself then we would never  believe in Jesus!  If you have come to Jesus for salvation the God has drawen you!

Amen!!!! We all have free will, but God is always there, ready and waiting. I truly believe He led me to Kansas, away from Massachusetts, so I could be saved. Had I not moved here, and found a nondenominational church that taught me to read the Bible in the truth it was written, I would not be saved now. I would be in the same dark hole I was in back home for so many years.

Many people CLAIM to be saved, because they believe in Jesus. Yet, they do not follow in His ways or His teachings. To be saved is something that you must take seriously. It is more than just a declaration. Your old self dies and is reborn COMPLETELY in Jesus. Yes, we will stumble but, with our faith Jesus is right there to pick us right back up so we can come closer to Him, IN Him.

God Bless,
Kelly

[linssue55]

When I look at the scripture, I seem to find different things said about salvation. For instance, look at these verses:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." ~John 3:16

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." ~John 3:18

These verses seem to suggest that the only requirement for salvation is belief in Jesus. It offers no other specific conditions. Then I take a look at verses like these:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ~John 6:44

"Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." ~John 6:65

These verses seem to suggest that a person cannot be saved simply by believing in Jesus. It offers the condition that a person must be drawn by God in order to achieve salvation.

What can we make of this? Is it simply a belief in Jesus that saves, or is it required that we are drawn by God first, then we can be saved through this belief?

Now I don't mean to expose my preacher's business in a bad light, but he did tell us (the church) a story that is relevant to this issue. He said that before he was truly saved, he came to Jesus and asked for salvation. According to him, Jesus said no! Apparently, he was not yet drawn by God, or the Holy Spirit. Why would Jesus have rejected him? It might have been because he wasn't willing to completely surrender to God, but I can't remember the real reason (if he even told it to us).

He says that Jesus has to accept us before we are saved. Now I have been drawn by the Spirit, I did go to the alter, and I did confess my sins and ask for forgiveness. Even after all of this, how do I know that Jesus has accepted me? After I left church that day, it still felt like something was wrong. I don't know what exactly. Was it because Jesus didn't accept me? I don't feel the peace that I have heard others speak of. I sometimes feel like I'm going crazy because I constantly wonder whether I have been thinking a particular bad thought long enough for it to be considered a sin. I end up asking for forgiveness for everything 24/7. It's very stressful.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved."  If you believe that Jesus died for your sins, and have accepted Him as the savior?......, you are saved.  It IS just that simple  This verse is a promise, and the Lord does not welch on His promises.  You are saved, don't EVER doubt it.  For when you have doubt you are not believing in that promise (but you are still saved...OSAS) and not trusting in the Lord.  If there is ANYONE that you could COMPLETLY, WITHOUT DOUBT, TRUST in.....this person is the Lord.  The longer you doubt this.......the more you are not fullfilling the God's plan for your life to learn and apply the bible doctrine, and grow, you can't grow if you are "STUCK" where you are now.  Completely trust in the Lord, and move on and grow in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


John 6:36-40
"But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

 
Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, (MAN with their false doctrines) shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[friendship bunch]

  Jesus accepted every person on the cross.  He was nailed to the cross for the whole world to see his love.  He is only waiting on us to receive him.  I think that being saved has more to do than just believing. James 2:19 says You believe that there is one God.  Good!  Even the demons believe that- and shudder.)  So you have to do more than just believe.   Then eariler on in the passage James 2:14 says (What good is it, my brother, if a man clains to have faith, but has no deeds?  Can sich faith save him?)  I would suggest reading James 2:14-26.  I think it might help you some. 

[Soldier4Christ]

I think that being saved has more to do than just believing.

There is a difference in believing in Him and believing on Him. In James 2:19 it is not speaking of the devils believing on Him but rather believing that He exists and is in fact one God.

Joh 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1Jo 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Works are not a requirement for Salvation but rather are a result of Salvation. We that are saved do good works because we love Jesus and want to please Him not because it is required for salvation.

Gal 3:26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.