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Who Is Your Apostle?
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Topic: Who Is Your Apostle? (Read 38445 times)
Ambassador4Christ
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Are You GOING TO HEAVEN?
Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #60 on:
December 06, 2003, 04:11:51 PM »
What do you think?
Is Paul all he claimed to be? The bible indicates that he is. Paul writes in his defense the following : 1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
What do you learn from Paul? 1. We have a completed revelation of God to man. 2. We understand that eternal life is a free gift not of works of any kind. 3. We learn that Israel IS set aside. 4. We learn that the Body Of Christ is God's agency today. 5. We learn not to live our lives based on the circumstances around us. 6. We learn to rightly divide the word of truth. 7. We learn total and complete forgiveness. 8. We learn the true value of the cross. 9. We learn of the pretribulational rapture of the church. 10. We learn that the law is a curse not a blessing. 11. We learn that the religion of the world is a religion of works. 12. We learn that if anyone, without exception, teaches any other gospel than the gospel of grace, they are under the curse of God.
So.. what do think?
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Sower
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Romans 8:31-39
Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #61 on:
December 06, 2003, 05:20:35 PM »
Quote from: Ambassador4Christ on December 06, 2003, 03:46:46 PM
Pauls Gospel is my Gospel, and none of you can find this Gospel in the Old Testament of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John
That is both an amazing and a disturbing statement. There is only ONE GOSPEL and that is the same from Genesis to Revelation. The OT is the NT enfolded, while the NT is the OT unfolded. To teach a dichotomy between the OT and the NT is to teach error.
The Gospel was preached to Adam (Gen. 2:15 see Gal. 4:4-5), to Abraham (Gen.22:18 see Galatians 3:16), and to all the prophets. It was even preached to the nation of Israel in the wilderness: "...all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea... and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them; and that Rock was Christ...But with whom was He grieved forty years?... so we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief...
FOR UNTO US WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED, AS WELL AS UNTO THEM
, but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it (1 Cor. 10:1-4; Heb, 3:17-4:2).
Paul is telling us in Hebrews quite plainly that the same Gospel that is recorded in the NT was preached to Israel in the OT, and salvation has always been by grace through faith in the blood of Christ and His finished work of atonement. While the animal sacrifices pre-figured the Lamb of God, they did require faith, and it was BY FAITH that "Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous [by imputation]" (Heb.11:4).
There is only ONE GOSPEL, just as there is only "one Body, ...one Spirit... one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all" (Eph. 4:4-5). To divide the Gospel is to contradict God and His unity.
Certainly Paul was given the fullest revelation of the Church and its relation to Christ, but the Gospel was always and will always be the same -- "For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH, and that not of yourselves; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:9).
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Ambassador4Christ
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Are You GOING TO HEAVEN?
Did Paul Ever Preach A Kingdom Gospel? - Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #62 on:
December 07, 2003, 09:50:46 AM »
Did Paul Ever Preach A Kingdom Gospel? (PART 1 of 2)
Doug Dodd s.b.g. – Berean Bible Church – Edgewater, Florida
The Church That Preaches What The Bible Teaches
Preaching The Grace Of God - From The King James Bible - Dispensationally Delivered
Introduction
Due to the transitional nature of dispensational overlapping it can sometimes be difficult to tell where one age ends and another begins. This is especially true of the book of Acts. The book of Acts is very well named because it is a dynamic book where things are changing rapidly and often without a great deal of detail. The book of Acts can be roughly divided between the diminishing of the nation of Israel as God's agent for salvation and the grafting in of the Gentiles.
In other words Israel is set aside in the book of Acts and the Gentiles receive "favored nation status". Gentile salvation would now come through the church the body of Christ and not through Israel.
However this transition did not happen overnight but covered as much as fourteen years.
When Paul is converted he begins going "to the Jew first" to "provoke" them to "emulation and jealousy". This Jew first provocation ministry is sometimes seen as Paul preaching the "gospel of the Kingdom" to Israel and the "gospel of grace" to the Gentiles. We will see in this study that Paul never preached any other message than the gospel of the grace of God to Jew and Gentile.
_______________
Paul and the Kingdom Gospel
Before we begin we better give a few brief (very brief for me) definitions.
Definition: Gospel of the kingdom = The message preached first by John Baptist, then the Lord Jesus Christ, then the 12 apostles. The basic details of this gospel include:
Water baptism for entrance into the kingdom
Repentance i.e. change their thinking about who the Lord Jesus Christ was
A future, literal, visible, earthly, Davidic Kingdom with Christ sitting on the his throne in Jerusalem.
The fulfillment of the promises made unto the patriarchal fathers
This is a works oriented, short account, Mosaic law system
References: Mark 1:4-5; John 1:31, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19-26, Gen 15:5 &ff., Mat 19:28 & ff., Mat 25:31-34, Luke 1:32… etc., etc,. etc..
Definition: Gospel of the grace of God = The message given to the apostle Paul the apostle to the Gentiles in the dispensation of the grace of God, kept secret until revealed by the risen Lord Jesus Christ.
The basic details of this gospel include:
Salvation apart from Israel
Salvation apart from the law of Moses
Salvation apart from works of any kind
Water baptism is not a part of the message of grace
Justification is …
Based in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ
In his death, burial and resurrection
Immediate
Free
Secure
REFERENCES: 1 Cor.1:17, Eph. 2:8,9, Romans 11, Romans 4:5, Romans 3, Eph.1:13-14 etc., etc,. etc..
The point we intend to defend here is Paul never preached the gospel of the kingdom as is contended by some.
Now the study …
--------------------------------
Paul gets saved in Acts 9
In Acts 9:20-22 Paul preaches "immediately" in the synagogues - but what does he teach?
Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Acts 9:22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
He teaches…
Christ is the Son of God - This is information that any Old Testament Christ rejecting Jew would need to hear before he could be given any gospel… we will see more of this in chapter 13 when we get there. This is not information exclusive to the kingdom gospel.
He confounds the jews - How? By proving Christ is the son of God. Again this in NOT kingdom exclusive information but information that any Old Testament Christ rejecting Jew would need to hear before he could be given any gospel - kingdom or grace.
Proving that this is very christ - Same comments as above.
Paul goes to Jerusalem next
Acts 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. 27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. 28 And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. 29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.
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Sower
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Romans 8:31-39
Re:Did Paul Ever Preach A Kingdom Gospel? - Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #63 on:
December 07, 2003, 04:12:12 PM »
Quote from: Ambassador4Christ on December 07, 2003, 09:50:46 AM
Did Paul Ever Preach A Kingdom Gospel? (PART 1 of 2)
As I have stated before and will continue to state, there is only ONE GOSPEL. Let's look at Scripture to see if the allegations stated below are ALL true:
The basic details of this gospel include:
Salvation apart from Israel -- FALSE
Salvation apart from the law of Moses -- ALWAYS TRUE
Salvation apart from works of any kind -- ALWAYS TRUE
Water baptism is not a part of the message of grace -- FALSE
Justification is …
Based in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ -- TRUE
In his death, burial and resurrection -- TRUE
Immediate -- TRUE
Free -- TRUE
Secure-- TRUE ETERNALLY"
So let's look at what is not true:
1.
"Salvation [is]apart from Israel"
Salvation never was "in Israel" but always "in the LORD". However if we teach that spiritual Israel (called "the remant" by Paul in Romans 11:5) is somehow different from the Church, then let us take note of what Paul says to Gentile believers in Rome (Rom 11, the entire chapter, but focusing on verses 2,5,17 and 24):God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew...Even so then AT THIS PRESENT TIME also there is A REMNANT according to the election of grace... And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou [Gentile believer] being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in AMONG THEM, and WITH THEM, partakest of the root [Christ] and fatness of the olive tree [the Holy spirit], BOAST NOT AGAINST THE BRANCHES, But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee... for if thou [Gentile believer] wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these [saved Jews] which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree [all the redeemed of Israel]?"
Again, Paul reminds us in Ephesians 4:11-22 that we who are Gentile believers have been brought into "the commonwealth of [spiritual] Israel" and "the covenants of promises" and that we are not to make a distinction between saved Jews and saved Gentiles. So salvation in NOT APART FROM ISRAEL, but redeemed Israel and redeemed Gentiles are all one before God -- "the household of God".
Again in Hebrews 12:22-24 we are told that all believers are "come unto Mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT [OT saints], and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel". Paul is primarily addressing Jewish believers in Hebrews, yet this epistle is to every believer in every age. We are all ONE, and Abel, Noah and Abraham will not be in a separate compartment while Jews and Gentiles since the resurrection of Christ are in another. In fact, in Hebrews 11 [the "faith chapter"] Paul brings everything into perspective by concluding: " And these all [OT saints] having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing for us, THAT THEY WITHOUT US SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT (vv.39-40).
2.
"Water baptism is NOT a part of the message of grace"
This is nothing but FALSE DOCTRINE,and contradicts the teaching of the Lord Himself. While the water of baptism cannot save us, water baptism by immersion is commanded by the Lord and is a MUST for every believer, not as a rite of entry into a local assembly, but as an act of obedience and public witness to his or her conversion. In fact, according to Mark 16:16, SALVATION AND WATER BAPTISM ARE INSEPARABLE:
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Faher, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt 28:19).
"...Go ye into all the world, and PREACH THE GOSPEL to every creature. He that BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mk. 16:15-16)
"Then Peter said unto them [Jews], Repent AND BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38).
"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch [Gentile] said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?... and they went down BOTH INTO THE WATER both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him" (Acts 8:35-39).
"And immediately there fell from his [Saul's] eyes as it had been scales; and he received sight forthwith, and arose, AND WAS BAPTIZED" (Acts 9:18).
"And they [Paul and Silas] said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house... and he [the jailor] took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes, AND WAS BAPTIZED, HE AND ALL HIS, STRAIGTWAY" (Acts 16:31-33).
Paul gives us the fullest teaching on water baptism in Romans chapter 6, so to allege that "water baptism is NOT a part of the message of grace" is to teach false doctrine.
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ollie
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Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #64 on:
December 07, 2003, 05:55:54 PM »
Neither Jew nor Greek, but one in Christ Jesus with the promise of eternal life through faith in Christ Jesus given by the grace of God.
A4C, How did you ever arrive at such false conclusions as the ones you preach and teach in this thread?
In the words of Paul to the churches of Galatia:
Galatians1:8.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
In the words of Peter, to them that have obtained like precious faith, ( not Jews, not gentiles, but them having obtained like precious faith ), concerning Paul's epistles:
2 Peter 3:15.
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
«
Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 06:42:26 PM by ollie
»
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Allinall
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Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #65 on:
December 07, 2003, 11:14:48 PM »
Thank you Sower for your comments on this matter! Very scriptural brother, and I am in agreement.
A4C,
I think you may need to go back to the scriptures more, and to Doug Dodd a bit less.
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Brother Love
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Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #66 on:
December 08, 2003, 07:31:06 AM »
Ambassador, I can see they cannot understand, maybe you should put this on hold. I wll send you a message.
Brother Love
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nChrist
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May God Lead And Guide Us All
Water Baptism
«
Reply #67 on:
December 08, 2003, 07:51:06 AM »
Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Sower,
Many would completely disagree with you about water baptism, including me. I have no intention to argue or debate the matter with you, nor do I desire to break fellowship with you because of the disagreement. This argument and debate is all over the board. I understand and respect your opinion.
I'll simply give you a brief idea about where I stand and why.
Water baptism is a ceremonial Jewish ritual done by man, a shadow of things to come.
There is one baptism, and it is NOT done my man, rather by the Holy Ghost. This was spoken of many times and fulfilled when the Holy Spirit was revealed to mankind. Men do baptism dozens of different ways, and none of them are the one baptism. The one baptism is by the Holy Ghost, NOT man.
Brother, we'll simply have to agree to disagree. You've got the last word, as I don't desire to argue.
Love In Christ,
Tom
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Petro
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Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #68 on:
December 08, 2003, 10:56:46 AM »
Unless John the Baptist was not telling the truth in Jhn 1:33, there would be reason not to believe his testimony, concerning what God told him.
Jhn 1:
33 And I knew him not: but
He that sent me to baptize with water,
the same
said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him
, the same is
He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Any water baptism performed by any man, could hardly be claimed to be fulfillment of John's words.
While water baptism, can be seen as a commandment to his apostles by the Lord, it does not replace the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Even circumcision performed with human hands is not in view in the OT, but circumcision of the heart, done without human hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: (Col2:11)
And the only Baptism that matters is the one spoken of by Paul at;
Col 2
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Now, someone can make the claim, this happens, when one is submerged in the water of the baptismal pool at church, but this is not supported by scripture, because the emphasis is not in the act of baptism, but in believing;
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(Mk 16:16)
Many are baptized and
DO NOT BELIEVE GOD's TESTIMONY CONCERNING HIS SON
It stands to reason if;
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,....
(Eph 4:4-5)
The physical act of water baptism, is not IT.............
Blessings,
Petro
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Last Edit: December 08, 2003, 11:03:45 AM by Petro
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Petro
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Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #69 on:
December 08, 2003, 11:33:41 AM »
I have removed my previous post, in answer to ollies post #57, since I saw a major problem, that when considered more carefully in the lite of the passage of 1 Cor 15:5-9, my post was merely reduced to an opinion, which is error.
I had always viewed 1 Cor 15:5, as the eleven counting Matthias tom fill out the twelve.
But as I lay in bed last night prior to dozing off, meditating on the events of the day, and going over the scriptures which excited me, I realize, that verse 5, could not have included Matthias, because the matter of replacing Judas had not even been considered as of yet, and clearly Paul at verse 5 is speaking of the chronology of the Lord's appearance to the disciples after his resurrection, ending with verse 8.
I am presently considering the passage carefully, and see that I need to reconcile scripture with scripture concerning this matter.
Perhaps a thread inviting the sharing of scriptures on who the twelth apostle in 1 Cor 15:5 is, would help clarify this matter.
If it not Matthias, it could only be Judas..
Any comments??
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3wells
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Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #70 on:
December 08, 2003, 01:18:17 PM »
Quote from: Petro on December 08, 2003, 11:33:41 AM
I have removed my previous post, in answer to ollies post #57, since I saw a major problem, that when considered more carefully in the lite of the passage of 1 Cor 15:5-9, my post was merely reduced to an opinion, which is error.
I had always viewed 1 Cor 15:5, as the eleven counting Matthias tom fill out the twelve.
But as I lay in bed last night prior to dozing off, meditating on the events of the day, and going over the scriptures which excited me, I realize, that verse 5, could not have included Matthias, because the matter of replacing Judas had not even been considered as of yet, and clearly Paul at verse 5 is speaking of the chronology of the Lord's appearance to the disciples after his resurrection, ending with verse 8.
I am presently considering the passage carefully, and see that I need to reconcile scripture with scripture concerning this matter.
Perhaps a thread inviting the sharing of scriptures on who the twelth apostle in 1 Cor 15:5 is, would help clarify this matter.
If it not Matthias, it could only be Judas..
Any comments??
Hi Petro,
I have seen this question posed somewhere else, I think with the suggestion that Jesus appeared to Judas some time before Judas took his life... don't know if I'm crazy about that idea.
Another possibility I suppose could be that "The Twelve" was used more in the sense of a title than a count of those present. For example, the members of the Swedish Acadamy (you know, the mob that gives out the Nobel prize), are called "The Eighteen". This title remains the same even when one of the members is missing, kicks the bucket, or whatever...
In the NIV the word "twelve" in this verse is capitalized, although there is no footnote explaining why.
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ollie
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Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #71 on:
December 08, 2003, 06:20:06 PM »
Quote from: Petro on December 08, 2003, 11:33:41 AM
I have removed my previous post, in answer to ollies post #57, since I saw a major problem, that when considered more carefully in the lite of the passage of 1 Cor 15:5-9, my post was merely reduced to an opinion, which is error.
I had always viewed 1 Cor 15:5, as the eleven counting Matthias tom fill out the twelve.
But as I lay in bed last night prior to dozing off, meditating on the events of the day, and going over the scriptures which excited me, I realize, that verse 5, could not have included Matthias, because the matter of replacing Judas had not even been considered as of yet, and clearly Paul at verse 5 is speaking of the chronology of the Lord's appearance to the disciples after his resurrection, ending with verse 8.
I am presently considering the passage carefully, and see that I need to reconcile scripture with scripture concerning this matter.
Perhaps a thread inviting the sharing of scriptures on who the twelth apostle in 1 Cor 15:5 is, would help clarify this matter.
If it not Matthias, it could only be Judas..
Any comments??
Perhaps Paul was including Matthias as one of the twelve in 1 Corinthians 15:5 because he was an apostle when Paul wrote the epistle to Corinth and Matthias had witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This being one of the qualifications for replacing Judas as an apostle.
So with Judas gone and Matthias in Paul included him in his epistle and said twelve had witnessed the event as the eleven plus Matthias had witnessed the resurrection.
It could not be Judas could it? Did he not hang himself before Christ was resurrected? I don't think Paul was including Judas as one of the twelve at this point in time, but Matthias.
Just some thoughts on it.
Acts1: 20. For it is written in the book of Psalms,
Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22.
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and
Matthias.
24. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25.
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell,
that he might go to his own place.
26. And they gave forth their lots;
and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
I Corinthians 15:3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5. And that
he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
The twelve at the time of Paul"s writng were the eleven and Matthias. The eleven and Matthias had seen Christ after the resurrection.
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Petro
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Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
«
Reply #72 on:
December 08, 2003, 06:54:17 PM »
Quote from: ollie on December 08, 2003, 06:20:06 PM
Quote from: Petro on December 08, 2003, 11:33:41 AM
I have removed my previous post, in answer to ollies post #57, since I saw a major problem, that when considered more carefully in the lite of the passage of 1 Cor 15:5-9, my post was merely reduced to an opinion, which is error.
I had always viewed 1 Cor 15:5, as the eleven counting Matthias tom fill out the twelve.
But as I lay in bed last night prior to dozing off, meditating on the events of the day, and going over the scriptures which excited me, I realize, that verse 5, could not have included Matthias, because the matter of replacing Judas had not even been considered as of yet, and clearly Paul at verse 5 is speaking of the chronology of the Lord's appearance to the disciples after his resurrection, ending with verse 8.
I am presently considering the passage carefully, and see that I need to reconcile scripture with scripture concerning this matter.
Perhaps a thread inviting the sharing of scriptures on who the twelth apostle in 1 Cor 15:5 is, would help clarify this matter.
If it not Matthias, it could only be Judas..
Any comments??
Perhaps Paul was including Matthias as one of the twelve in 1 Corinthians 15:5 because he was an apostle when Paul wrote the epistle to Corinth and Matthias had witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This being one of the qualifications for replacing Judas as an apostle.
So with Judas gone and Matthias in Paul included him in his epistle and said twelve had witnessed the event as the eleven plus Matthias had witnessed the resurrection.
It could not be Judas could it? Did he not hang himself before Christ was resurrected? I don't think Paul was including Judas as one of the twelve at this point in time, but Matthias.
Just some thoughts on it.
Its plausible and this is the way I understood it, but what really struck me, and what I had'nt considered was the chronological sequence of His appearance at 1 Cor 15, first to
Cephas then the twelve
If you stretched it as you say, then he could very well been speaking of himself, but what clears this up is the next two verses, when Paul says'
6
After that
, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7
After that
, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
At the end of the first day He (Jesus) appeared to all of the disciples including the apostles, Thomas was the only one lacking at this meeting (John 20:18-24), also see Luke 24:13-51.
It wasn't until eight days later that he appeared to the them a second time, and this time Tomas was present. (Jhn 20:24-28)
Quote
Acts1: 20. For it is written in the book of Psalms,
Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22.
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and
Matthias.
24. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25.
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell,
that he might go to his own place.
26. And they gave forth their lots;
and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
1 Cor 15:5-8, in view here is before Acts 1:20-26...
By this time Judas was dead, I am sure of it, for this reason.
If Judas was present at the end of that first day when Jesus, appeared to them at Jerusalem, then it could very well be speaking of Judas, but, the apostles were there when Judas delivired up Jesus, it is doubtful Judas would have returned to the disciples or apostles after his deed. (lk 24:31)
He threw the coins into the temple and repented himself and
tried to return the money to the chief priests, because they condemned an innocent man. (Mat 27:3)
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and
went out and hanged himself.
This is very interesting.....
Quote
The twelve at the time of Paul"s writng were the eleven and Matthias. The eleven and Matthias had seen Christ after the resurrection.
Yes, but what is the preplexing verse, which confirms Thomas was missing on that first meeting at the end of the first day, is Luke 24:33, look at the verse closely;
33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem,
and found the eleven
gathered together, and them that were with them,
It should have read,
and found the ten
....
Thomas was missing according to Jhn 20:19-24.
It is hard for me to believe that Judas would have been here at the first meeting when Jesus appeared unto them.
At this occurance Matthias, was one of the disciples, not yet an apostle counted as one of the twelve.
Blessings,
Petro
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Last Edit: December 08, 2003, 07:16:35 PM by Petro
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Ambassador4Christ
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Are You GOING TO HEAVEN?
Did Paul Ever Preach A Kingdom Gospel?
«
Reply #73 on:
December 08, 2003, 07:00:27 PM »
Did Paul Ever Preach A Kingdom Gospel? (PART 2 of 2)
He Teaches…
In the name of the Lord Jesus - We are still not on Kingdom only ground.
The first indication of the content of what Paul preaches in the synagogues.
VERSE: Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
COMMENT: Paul goes to Antioch in Pisida and into the synagogue.
VERSE: Acts 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. 17 The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. 18 And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. 19 And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. 20 And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. 21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
COMMENT: Paul, as Stephen did in Acts 7, recounts Israel's history for them - pointing out their pattern of unbelief.
VERSE: Acts 13:23 Of this man's seed (David's) hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
COMMENT: Paul now begins his argument of proving "the messiahship" of Jesus Christ. Again this is information that a Jew, during this period, must receive before he can be saved - under either gospel.
VERSE: Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
COMMENT: Paul appeals to John Baptist - a man most of Israel, religious or not, feared as a prophet. John Baptist points out the Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah.
VERSE: Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
COMMENT: Paul now appeals to kinship and Abraham (his faith) and the fear of God as an argument for a hearing - but still no kingdom gospel is given.
VERSE: Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. 29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
COMMENT: Paul recommends the word of God to them. Do not make the same mistake as your fathers. Jesus is VERY Christ.
VERSE: Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
COMMENT: 2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: - Paul's perspective of the resurrection is different than Peter's. Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Peter would say Christ was raised to sit on David's throne… But Paul does not take the kingdom route here… just wait and see.
VERSE: Acts 13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. :32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
COMMENT: Watch closely now… Paul has just quoted the same passage that Peter quotes in Acts 2 but Paul draws a different conclusion - a salvation by grace conclusion NOT a kingdom conclusion. Notice the verses to follow.
VERSE: Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
COMMENT: This is not a kingdom message… this is the message of GRACE! GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS AT CHRIST'S EXPENSE! Under the kingdom gospel Israel cannot have their sins forgiven until the Lord Jesus Christ returns to set up his kingdom… But Paul here is offering "the forgiveness of sins…" NOW according to the tense of the next verse!
VERSE: Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
COMMENT: Not only is Paul offering "real time" forgiveness but also liberty from the law of Moses!!! This is not kingdom ground!! This is grace ground.
VERSE: Acts 13:40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; 41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
COMMENT: You missed him when he spoke on Earth you Jews… do not miss him again as he speaks from heaven!
VERSE: Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
COMMENT: When the Jews were gone… Here we see the final steps towards the ending of the earthly ministry of Christ and the full weight of the gospel of the grace of God coming to full power. Paul later says… Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
VERSE: Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
COMMENT: Want to know what Paul preached to the Jews in the synagogues? He preached two issues.
The Lord Jesus Christ - whom you killed and God raised - is MESSIAH
Salvation by grace
Conclusion
It is not a safe practice to build doctrine based on the book of Acts alone because it is a transitional book. It is better to zoom out - so to speak - and view the big picture. Paul was - is - the apostle to the Gentiles. He preached the gospel of the grace of God. He did not preach the gospel of the kingdom. When Paul preached to the Jews he "proved" to them first of all that the Lord Jesus Christ was Messiah. He did not offer them the kingdom but did offer them real time salvation and freedom from the law. Paul did have a ministry of provocation to Israel but he never offered them the kingdom.
Did Paul ever preach a kingdom gospel - unequivocally NO. Paul preached grace in the dispensation of the grace of God.
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Ambassador4Christ
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Are You GOING TO HEAVEN?
Re:Who Is Your Apostle?
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Reply #74 on:
December 08, 2003, 07:02:22 PM »
One more time:
Did Paul ever preach a kingdom gospel - unequivocally NO. Paul preached grace in the dispensation of the grace of God.
Grace & Peace
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