THE ONE TRUE CHURCH

[ollie]

The English word "church",is an unfortunate "coined word". Much doctrinal confusion has resulted from it's scriptural mis-interpretation. The original Greek word for "church", is Ecclesia, i.e. the combining of the two Greek words Kaleo--meaning "to call", and Ek--meaning "out from". Simply stated; the word Ecclesia,refers to "ANY ASSEMBLY OF CALLED OUT ONES", be they "religious",or otherwise. It's meaning,can only be determined by it"s in-context usage. For example; in Acts 19:32,39,41, we find that "an assembly of unsaved Ephesian towns-people" are called "an ecclesia"--i.e. "a church",so to speak.

What is The One True Church?

Eph 1:22,23 "AND HATH PUT ALL T?HINGS UNDER HIS (Christ's) FEET; AND GAVE HIM TO BE THE HEAD OVER ALL THINGS; TO THE CHURCH,WHICH IS HIS BODY". The One True Church,is therefore not composed of any one of the well over 1,2OO visible,earthly, man made churches, in view today, but is a heaven based, invisible Divine Living Organism, called "THE CHURCH,WHICH IS HIS (Spiritual) BODY".

So those, such as should be saved, that the Lord added to the ecclesia in Acts 2:47 were not added to Christ's ecclesia?

Because that ecclesia didn't come until Paul in Acts:9?

Then what Lord in Acts 2 added, such as should be saved, to what ecclesia in Acts 2:47?

WOW! Such division of God's word seems sinful.

[Brother Love]

Quote Ollie: WOW! Such division of God's word seems sinful.

Yes Ollie to you I am sure it is.

Brother Love

<))><

[Evangelist]

Michael:
Thanks for the replies. Since they are rather long, and to keep the thread from being too unwieldy, I'll respond one item at a time as I have the opportunity to read.

The very first item quickly caught my eye, so here we go:

Quote:
Considering that a recent encyclical reiterated the RCC position that salvation cannot be found outside of the RCC, I doubt you would accord me the same honor, and therein lies the crux of disagreement.
I would like to see a quote from this encyclical you claim says something that can be interpreted as a reiteration that salvation cannot be found outside of the RCC.  I ask this because I know that the Catholic Church does not teach this.  As evidence I offer the following quote from the Official Catechism of the Catholic Church which proves that the Church teaches that others, besides those in the Catholic Church, can be saved.
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."
I suspect you are completely misinterpreting the statement in the encyclical.  I would like to encourage you that if you want to convince people that you are not interested in bashing them you should be sure you are not misrepresenting their position before you attack it.

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (there is no salvation outside the Church)

"Urged on by our faith, we are obliged to believe and hold that there is one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. And we firmly believe and profess that outside of her there is no salvation nor remission of sins"
Pope Boniface VIII in his Bull, Unam Sanctam in 1302

Pope Eugene IV, Papal Bull Cantate Domino proclaimed the "infallible dogma of no salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church"

3866.......Among those things which the Church has always proclaimed and never leaves off proclaiming is contained the infallible proposition by which we are taught that "outside the Church there is no salvation."
excerpt of letter from Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston, 1948

Vatican II appeared to redefine the millennium long edicts of the RCC to include "some" outside of the RCC, but:

In the fall of 2000 Rome issued the Dominus Jesus edict: On September 5th 2000, the Roman Catholic document "DOMINUS IESUS" was issued by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.  Carrying the full authority of an official Vatican decree, it declares the Roman Catholic Church to be the only "instrument for the salvation of all humanity. "DI has been "ratified and confirmed" by "The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II."

1215, Fourth Lateran Council, exclusive salvation defined by Pope Innocent III
1302, Unam Sanctum, Pope boniface VII
1441, Cantate Domino, Pope Eugene IV
Pius IX and St. Pius X confirmed, plus:


"...but this we do dare say, that, if one dies a Protestant, and the presemption, if he remains an adhering Protestant up to the last moment, is that he does so die, he is most assuredly damned, that is, forever deprived of heaven and will never see God as He is."
Orestes A Brownson, 1803-1876
In Hoc Signo Vinces (IHSV.com), the official Catholic website, ©2000.

From the "controversies" section, IHSV.com

Are Only Catholics Saved?
For many people, this is an extremely difficult issue. This section of our site is dedicated to defending and spreading this Divinely revealed dogma.
The doctrine of exclusive salvation is THE key doctrine of the Catholic Church. The Church's sole purpose on earth is the salvation of souls; once this role is stripped away she becomes utterly useless. This is what has happened in our day. According to the liberals and Modernists, the Church is no longer the sole means of salvation; now, people can be saved without being members of the Church, so long as they are nice people. This is utter heresy, and it is this heresy that is the root cause of all the problems we see in the Church today. It is our privilege to stand by the Church's teaching on this subject, and defend it with every weapon available.

I would humbly suggest to you, Michael, that before making any more statements such as your last two lines in the above quote, that you might insure that you yourself are not misrepresenting either a position, or another person. As you will eventually learn, I am neither in the habit or attitude of just throwing something out without believing that I have (a) understood it, and (b) researching it. Misrepresentation and twisting of anothers position is not only morally untenable, but makes for easily refuted argumentation.

[Evangelist]

Here in this one statement lies the error of your interpretation.  Note that it says in outside the Church, not outside the Catholic Church.  The Catholic Church is the physically identifiable entity of the Church on earth, but as the quote from the Catechism shows the Church extends outside that physical entity, as there are members of it within other denominations.  When you grasp this subtle difference and then look carefully at the quotes oyu provide you will see that the Catholic Church does not claim what you say it does.

Let's try a little logic.

In a previous post, you said:

But guess what I did not declare the Church I attend to be the "oone true Church" - Jesus did in the very first verse where the word appears.
Mat 16:18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The church Michael Legna attends is a Roman Catholic Church.
Michael Legna says that Jesus has declared that church to be the "one true Church".
Therefore, Michael Legna's church (the Roman Catholic Church) is the one true church.

Either the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church or it isn't (law of non-contradiction).
Either Michael Legna accepts what Jesus says as true, or what the Catholic Church catechism says is true.
By the law of non-contradiction, you cannot accept both.

Which is it?

Again all true and never the mention of the Catholic Church representing the entirety of that one Chruch so it leaves room for salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

see above.

I will have to look this one up as his Papal bull is not considered an excathedra statement so I suspect you have the quote wrong.  Could you please provide the page or section or paragraph number within the bull where you got this quote.

According to Fr. Matthew O'Herlihy (DDiv, PhD.,) who taught my Comparative Theology courses in the late 50's, Papal Bulls ARE ex-cathedra statements, and binding upon the entirety of the RCC.  I believe you are perfectly capable of finding the bull yourself....aren't you?

Again we see the subtle nuance of the wording being careeful not to say outside the Catholic Church.  The Catholic Church of course teaches that there is not salvation outside the Church of Christ, it just does not teach (as you claim it does and the Catechism claims it doesn't) that the Church does not extend beyond the physical entity of the Catholic Church.

see above.

Here we see you being careful not to quote the entirety of the message asking us to accept that it refers to the Catholic Church when that is clearly not part of the quote.

No quote provided.

No quote provided

No quote provided
 
No quote provided
Were these just filler to make the post look more impressive?

Your tackiness is unbecoming. Does it make you feel better?
 

Again this does not say that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church it says that if one continues to hold the Protestant position that the Catholic Church is not the ture Church on earth that one is not saved.  There is whole range of degrees on this position one can take and not be a Protestant, just as the Orthodox.

The ugly spectre of logic:
The protestant position is that the RCC is not the true church.
The RCC position is that it is the one true church (according to Jesus).
Therefore, all protestants are not saved.

The RCC position is that it is the one true church (according to Jesus).
Anyone not a part of the RCC is not part of the one true church.
Therefore all who are not a part of the RCC are not saved. (even if they are Orthodox).

The law of non-contradiction again rules.

Again read the statement - it never says that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church only that there is no salvation outside the Church.

see above

I am sure of my representation of the Catholic Church as I was able to support it with a quote from the official teachings of the Catholic Church as contained in the Catechism.  A quote you simply ignored while I have explained everyone of yours which you misinterpreted (except admittedly the one from a papal bull which I will have to research if it truly exists).

Ignored? Not quite...just put it in comparison to over 1000 years of RCC position, and found it inconsistent. Now, in your last sentence are you "subtly and with infinite nuance"  suggesting that I made up the existence of such a bull?

I look forward to learning that about you, but tell me when you ran across the paragraph from the Catechism I quoted in your research how did you understand it and why did it not give you pause to reinterpret the other quotes you thought you understood?

As the RCC likes to suppose, tradition trumps. Since the tradition of the RCC is as presented over a period of roughly 700 years, the latest catechism is merely a bump in the usually rocky road of RCC dogma...and inconsistent, as previously explained.

Remember even the best intended research sometimes goes astray as we have seen in this case for you.

Rather than respond to another tacky piece of innuendo, I would prefer to direct you to the following site
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html
which will give you a basic introduction to the fallacies of argumentation. Take a few months to digest it, then come back.....we just might make a serious (and capable) apologist of you yet.  

[Evangelist]

We'll keep this short and sweet, Michael, since I find no real value in our interchange.

You say:

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
So now with this new research in front of you - which way do you, in your great wisdom, decide the Catholic Church (which you see as inconsistent) falls?  No salvation outside the Catholic Church or does the Catholic Church teach that just about anyone can be saved?

On the presumption that this statement, as a dictum from the pontiff and the RCC, is one in which you agree (otherwise I don't believe you would have posted it), I find that you (and the RCC) have, in one fell swoop, declared that Jesus is a liar (NO ONE cometh to the Father but BY ME), have declared His shed blood to be inefficacious (without the shedding of blood there is NO REMISSION OF SIN), and placed yourself (via the RCC) squarely outside the realm of Christian orthodoxy.

Keep your sophmoric websites I have a vast background at the graduate level in logic, both predicate and mathematical, such that I do not have to rely on one law over and over again applying it improperly at that as you do.

 

Glad you recognized the level of the website...it was chosen to fit your level. And IF you had a "vast background at the graduate level" in logic, you would have been able to prove the BOOLEAN syllogisms as invalid...but you cannot, since they are valid as formed.  Additionally, the premises can be proven (by your previous statements) to be adequately rendered in syllogistic form, thus they are true.

Finally, since your primary argumentation is based upon something that falls into the category of non-contradiction, it is so named....repeatedly. Care for more variety? How about :
Argumentum ad Verecundiam (your appeals to the catechism)
Argumentum ad Hominem (via your barely concealed snidisms)

and several others.

Anathema Maranatha.

[michael_legna]

No, claiming to be infallible at anytime is an effort to usurp the honor and glory and power of God   and put it into the hands of man.  It's wrong.  

Actually the Pope doesn't claim to be infallible to usurp the honor and glory and power of God.  The Pope admits that he is infallible only because of the power of God, and the decisions he reaches when guided by the Holy Spirit (as promised by Christ in scripture) are for the glory of God through the success of His Church.

Mat 16:19  And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The Bible are the stories about GOD'S power.  Not about the power of Man.  So far, we've seen the Pope raise no dead folks.  

In the entire history of the Catholic church the Popes have not been able to raise the dead.  WE do have a certain promise in the Bible that says where the Gospel is preached we will have the power of healing--as in crippled people walking on legs that are new.  No Popes have done that so in essence, the Bible proves, through the power of God, that they have not been correct.

You are not very familiar with history if you make such a claim - as miraculous healings and even raising people from the dead have been accomplished hundreds of times by members of the Catholic Church and even some Popes.  But that is only one gift and we should not focus on it alone.

If you can't do that, then you're not preaching the Gospel.  You might have bits and peices but you don't have it right.  If you had it right, then you could heal.  I think we need to make a massive effort to RE-TRANSLATE God's Word and see where we're getting it wrong.  I want to see real healing.  I haven't seen it.  

Now you have pushed the gifts idea too far as we see in scripture that there are many diverse gifts.  Not all heal, some are teachers, some speak in tongues.  

1Co 12:28-31  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.   Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles  Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?   But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

In fact healing the physical body is not even one of the better gifts.  Being an Apostle (which the Pope is) is the best gift and yet even that (like faith alone) is nothing without love.

1Co 13:13  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

None of my arguements are saying that anyone doctrine is right or wrong.  Or anyone interpretation of scripture is right or wrong.  All I'm saying is when we get it right the Power of God will show us that we're right.  Not fancy arguments!!!

You can believe that if you want but there is no evidence for that in scripture.

[michael_legna]

 But claiming infallibility DOES usurp God's power, honor, and glory.  People aren't trying to get to to God by talking to God, people are trying to get to God by listening to the Pope.    They say, "Let's see what the Pope has to say about the subject." Then whatever the Pope says, that's what they do.

If God is the one responsible for the Popes infallibility, that is if God is the one protecting the Church from error as Christ promised He would.  Then by listening to the Pope when he speaks ex cathedra you are listening to God as He speaks through the Pope.

If you start saying, "well, if the Pope contradicts scripture . . . .   "  Well, then my answer to that is, "He HAS!"  

Your saying the Pope has contradicted scripture is a long way from actually proving it.  Many have tried and all have failed to prove such a ridiculous claim.

Michael, I'm not saying that anything I'm saying is going to get you to see things MY WAY.  But the entire foundation of the infallibility of the Pope when he's under the direction of the Holy Spirit is based on a scripture that has been taken out of context.  Jesus promised that His united body of believers that Jesus unites by and through His spirit WILL NOT FAIL.  

Now you are taking the verses out of context.  Yes it is the body that will not fail but the power to bind and loose was given only to the Apostles (Matt 18:18) and it was first given to Peter (Matt 16:19) to strengthen the others (Luke 22:32) as leader (John 21:16-17).

Please consider, Your Freedom in Christ is at stake if you say I'm incorrect in this.  In Your freedom in Christ, you are free to stay in slavery to rules of man but please don't put other folks in chains just because you find it nice and cozy to not have to do your own thinking.

What rules of men do you think I am slave to by being part of the Catholic Church?  I am not under any rules that do not come right from scripture, rules I would follow regardless of the denomination I choose; because my interpretation of scripture makes it clear that Christ instructed us to do them.

I am free in Christ, but free in the sense to understand that God desires mercy not sacrifice (Mt 9:13), that the letter of the law is death but the spirit is life(2 Cor 3:6), that Christ came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it (Mt 5:17), that we fulfill the law through love (Rom 13:.

[Warrior For Christ]

How many "churches",i.e. how many "religious bodies" is God building?

Eph 4:5 "THERE IS (ONE) BODY--", i.e. There is only "ONE" True Church.

[Warrior For Christ]

 Is this "ONE BODY", i.e. "ONE CHURCH", to be one of earthly, corporate unity? Or solely that of a heavenly,spiritual unity?

 Solely that of a heavenly,spiritual unity,e.g.Eph 4:3 "ENDEAVOURING TO KEEP THE (heavenly) UNITY OF THE SPIRIT,IN THE BOND OF PEACE"--as follows: Eph 2:6 "AND HATH (now,positionally) RAISED US UP TOGETHER,AND MADE US SIT TOGETHER,IN HEAVENLY PLACES,IN CHRIST JESUS:Col 1:13 "WHO HATH DELIVERED US FROM THE POWER OF DARKNESS,AND HATH (now,positionally) TRANSLATED US INTO THE (heavenly) KINGDOM OF HIS DEAR SON". Eph 1:3 "--WHO HATH (already) BLESSED US WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN HEAVENLY PLACES,IN CHRIST".Note: Positionally speaking,the saved are (already) saved,sainted,and seated in the heavenlies,(in) Christ's One Body. One need seek no other "church body".

[Warrior For Christ]

HE purchased it with His blood (Acts 20:28).

HE is the Head (Eph. 1:22-23; Col. 1:18).

HE nourishes and cherishes it (Eph. 5:29).

HE dwells in it (Eph. 3:17; Col. 1:18).

HE adds only saved to it (1 Cor. 12:13).

HE places the members in it (1 Cor. 12:18).

HE designates the qualifications of its leaders (Titus 1:5-11; 1 Tim. 3:1-15).

HE instructs its members to be of one mind and speak the same thing (1 Cor. 1:10).

HE instructs its members to have no divisions among them (1 Cor. 1:10, 3:1-4).

HE instructs its members to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace (Eph. 4:3).

HE instructs its members to not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers (2 Cor. 6:14-17).

HE thouroughly furnishes it unto all good works by the scriptures (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

HE is coming again to catch only His church away (1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-58).

Then, he Who has provided all of the above and more, commands His church to do all they do in His name, thus giving thanks to God and the Father that He might righly receive the glory (Col. 3:17).

[BUTCHA]

Is this "ONE BODY", i.e. "ONE CHURCH", to be one of earthly, corporate unity? Or solely that of a heavenly,spiritual unity?

 Solely that of a heavenly,spiritual unity,e.g.Eph 4:3 "ENDEAVOURING TO KEEP THE (heavenly) UNITY OF THE SPIRIT,IN THE BOND OF PEACE"--as follows: Eph 2:6 "AND HATH (now,positionally) RAISED US UP TOGETHER,AND MADE US SIT TOGETHER,IN HEAVENLY PLACES,IN CHRIST JESUS:Col 1:13 "WHO HATH DELIVERED US FROM THE POWER OF DARKNESS,AND HATH (now,positionally) TRANSLATED US INTO THE (heavenly) KINGDOM OF HIS DEAR SON". Eph 1:3 "--WHO HATH (already) BLESSED US WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN HEAVENLY PLACES,IN CHRIST".Note: Positionally speaking,the saved are (already) saved,sainted,and seated in the heavenlies,(in) Christ's One Body. One need seek no other "church body".

i agree, but do you think its a bad thing to go to a church to worship , pray , share with your brothers , and refill your spirit .  ( church in the sense of a physical building )

[Warrior For Christ]

michael_legna,

If you can't discern a false gospel and a false church, then you can't discern the true gospel and the true church. If you cannot discern a false gospel and a false church, then you are in very serious spiritual trouble...

[Shylynne]

1Ki 8:27  But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Act 7:48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49  Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

2Co 2:14  Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

The one true church is you and me and whosoever will.

[C C]

   Actually, it's soooo funy you mention this, but I really felt the Lord press upon me that this binding in earth and in heaven has to do with forgiveness.  FORGIVENESS.  Please go back and read the scripture in it's context, otherwise I would quote it here.  but go back in the book and go back waayyyy as far as you can tolerate and read and read until you get to that very part.  You will notice that this is about forgiveness.  Michael, I certainly would want your sincere input.  Please don't rehash what someone already taught you or what you learned in school.  Because nobody taught me this and I didn't learn it in school.  Matter of fact the Bible that I'm reading has all sorts of notes on it that detract away from this meaning -- of it being about forgiveness.  Anyway, I'm sure there's no one that I worship with that will see it this way if they re-hash what they've learned.  The key thing is that I've been struggling with this idea that the gospel is preached to the dead by those that have passed on.  I can think of only two scripture references that have popped out that have confirmed this idea in my  mind.  I know that the Catholics believe in purgatory and that's why I wanted you to have a gander at this idea.  If the loosing in earth and in heaven is about forgiveness and a person has to go to the body of Christ to  get things loosed and bound--I'm not saying I'm able to comprehend eternity or how things work but if a group of people can get a person to really forgive, I'm not talking about forgiving in word, I'm talking about the forgiveness that heals the wounds and gives joy to the forgiver.  Then it would take the body of Christ to do that.  anyway, I guess my whole idea is that I never thought the Church would be the legislature.  As a matter of Fact when a man approached Christ to have him settle a dispute, Christ refused to do it.  As Christians following Christ we have to take note of what Christ did and did not do and then we can live out His love that way.  So, I'm pretty sure binding and loosening isn't about settling earthly disputes, and I think it's about forgiveness.  What do you think?  Actually, I'm pretty sure about this topic in my own heart, but I'm not sure enough about it to start and argument.   So, if it's just for arguements sake, then I don't want to argue.  I just want your pure an adulterated, thoughts on the topic.  If you're going to fork out someone else's thoughts or type out what you learned in school, don't bother, I've already heard it all.

Thanks, Mike!

[C C]

I love you for answering my question!!    When I was a child people used to break out this verse or that verse and make me do things that were wrong.    So, I never break out verses anymore.  I admit, I have big problems when folks zero in on this scripture or that without reading the part way ahead and the part way after.  I always go a chapter or two before and I don't stop at the end of the chapters because we know that the chapters were started just two hundred years ago or so.  When the texts were originially written, there were no divisions such as chapters.  I think it's starts with the way that Jesus handled this Tax Collector
Peter and His Master Pay Their Taxes
24 When they had come to Capernaum,[7] those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?"
25He said, "Yes."
And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26Peter said to Him, "From strangers."
Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free. 27Nevertheless, lest we offend them, go to the sea, cast in a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have opened its mouth, you will find a piece of money;[8] take that and give it to them for Me and you."

Who Is the Greatest?


Offenses and Forgiveness
(1) 1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

Children forgive easily


Jesus Warns of Offenses
(2) 6 "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes! 8"If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

People causing the little children to get all offended get a warning here.
The Parable of the Lost Sheep

(3) 10 "Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.[1] (I think that Jesus is actually looking at souls that are lost like they are children.)
It's not good to despise.

12"What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.


Dealing with a Sinning Brother
15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that "by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'[2] 17And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Did you take note about how Jesus dealt with the tax collector?  He gave himi what he wanted!!   18"Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19"Again I say[3] to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."


The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, "Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' 27Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
28"But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, "Pay me what you owe!' 29So his fellow servant fell down at his feet[4] and begged him, saying, "Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'[5] 30And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, "You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?' 34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35"So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."[6]

I definately think if a person looks at the WHOLE thing and sees how Jesus treated a tax collector and then he tell us to treat folks like heathens and tax collectors, did you notice that the only people that Jesus taught us to be harsh with are with religious leaders and teachers of the law.  It's because they know better.  Everyone else are like little children and we have to remember that they are our neighbor and we have to love them.  And any teacher of the law or preacher that can't love a person that disagrees with him shows that he isn't Christ's follower.  They know the good teachers by how the love each other.  We should focus on loving if we want our words to amount to anything.

In this context, do you agree that scripture may be about forgiveness??