Is contraception against the will of God

[cris]

2nd Tim,

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread, either.  From my understanding, in Christianity there's only black and white, no grey.  A completely different story in the world though, there's black, white and grey.

In reference to having several wives and it not being considered a sin, that was the culture and wasn't considered sin.  Jesus Christ changed that.  He said God allowed multiple wives and divorce because of the hardness of their hearts but it had not always been that way.  The NT or rather Jesus Christ said, no more.

Be fruitful and multiply is a command to married people.  When someone says they believe contraception is acting responsibly because---------------well, I'm not so sure about that.  Where's our faith that the Lord will provide for those children?  Where's our faith that He won't allow more children than we can care for?  The Christian life is a disciplined life------------in all areas.  When did bible change the command to be fruitful and multiply?  Rhetorical question!  Jesus changed the marriage and divorce laws but not the be fruitful and multiply one.

Personally, I think God would have made us to be infertile most of the time if He had created the sexual act for mostly pleasure.  Just my opinion.

In case you might think I'm holier than thou, I'm not.  I'm guilty.

If one practices NFP, it's not contraception.  It's acting responsibly but allowing ourselves to be open to life, if God so chooses that for us.  I've always heard everyone say that children are a gift from God.  It's just about the only gift we try to prevent God from giving us, all the while justifying it.

You said you thought it was up to God to lead each of us into truth through prayer and seeking.  I agree, but question why that same Holy Spirit leads to different truths.  One claims they've prayed and sought the H.S. on the contraception issue and believe God is telling them it isn't a sin.  Another prays and seeks guidance on the same issue and believes God is telling them contraception is a sin.  Hmmm.  Same Holy Spirit----different truths.  God help us!!!

Grace and peace,
cris

[2nd Timothy]

Cris, I will take some time with this, but at the moment I see much more reasoning going into these discussions than scripture.   Sound Doctrine is usually well outlined by multiple passages all agreeing with each other.   I find some of the doctrine being constructed to look good on the surface, but lacking much scriptural depth, and that is what has bothered me from the beginning of this discussion.   The lack of scripture to support either view.

I would encourage others who may have more study time on the topic to assist us here as well.    

For now let me chew of what we have and do some study before I comment further.   Fair enough?

Grace and Peace!

[auntieneeker]

Hi everyone, newbie here!

Did you know that the Pill, Norplant and depo-provera can be abortifacient some of the time?  One of their functions is to prevent ovulation, but another is to alter the lining of the uterus to prevent the implating of the new life, should conception take place.  ESPECIALLY the low-dose and progestin only pills (mini-pill).  The IUD is abortifacient 100% of the time.

If you believe that life begins at conception/fertilization, then the argument should be clear for these types of contraception.

Besides, the pill can be detrimental to a woman's health, including links to cervical, skin, and breast cancer.

Something to consider.

Blessings,
Monique

[Bronzesnake]

Hi everyone, newbie here!

Did you know that the Pill, Norplant and depo-provera can be abortifacient some of the time?  One of their functions is to prevent ovulation, but another is to alter the lining of the uterus to prevent the implating of the new life, should conception take place.  ESPECIALLY the low-dose and progestin only pills (mini-pill).  The IUD is abortifacient 100% of the time.

If you believe that life begins at conception/fertilization, then the argument should be clear for these types of contraception.

Besides, the pill can be detrimental to a woman's health, including links to cervical, skin, and breast cancer.

Something to consider.

Blessings,
Monique

I did not realize that. Thanks for the information, and welcome to C.U.

[cris]

Cris, I will take some time with this, but at the moment I see much more reasoning going into these discussions than scripture.   Sound Doctrine is usually well outlined by multiple passages all agreeing with each other.   I find some of the doctrine being constructed to look good on the surface, but lacking much scriptural depth, and that is what has bothered me from the beginning of this discussion.   The lack of scripture to support either view.

I would encourage others who may have more study time on the topic to assist us here as well.    

For now let me chew of what we have and do some study before I comment further.   Fair enough?

Grace and Peace!

Of course, fair enough!

cris

[beechy]

I'm always perplexed as to how verses about marriage, the directive to Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply", the story of Onan, and the idea that children are blessings has come to be interpreted to mean that we each need to have as many children as we can.

I think that children most certainly are blessings from God, and I agree that we need to trust God in our lives -- but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to understand and act responsibly within the world He has created. If I were to break my arm, I wouldn't sit in my living room and pray for God to heal it without heading to the emergency room to have it set. I don't think going to a doctor is a sin -- does God not want us to help ourselves and learn how we can do that in the world He has created? Your bone will grow itself back together (quite a miracle!) if you set the ends together. As long as we give credit to God, rather than the doctors who are simply working within the biological framework God created, I think we're probably ok.

Similarly, God's biology requires that a new life will be formed if an egg is penetrated by a sperm. If God didn't want us to be able to have some say in the creation of our own children, why wouldn't He just make women pregnant as He saw fit, whenever He determined that a man and his wife should have a child? Rather, he wisely gave us some measure of control over the decision to bring a new life into the world by requiring a willful act to put sperm and egg together. That's not to say that the minute we want children we can have them without God's help -- not all attempts at pregnancy are successful. That end of things is, indeed, in God's hands.

I absolutely see children as blessings. Which is why I would like to have them in a number that I feel I can responsibly parent, and at a time when I am able to provide for them. I'm not saying my life has to be perfect before I start a family, but since I have some control over the matter I would like to be emotionally ready and not have so many kids that it will compromise the time that each of them deserves. I want to be able to shower my little blessings with all the love and attention they deserve, and I think I'll be able to do that better with 3 kids than I would with 13. But that's just me. Maybe you'd rather have 13 kids. Go for it! Thankfully, God in his infinite wisdom has provided that the egg/sperm requisite for pregnancy involves a deliberate act on the part of those involved, so you can to some degree have an influence on the timing and frequency of your pregnancies.

The Bible says be fruitful and multiply. This directive was made to Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:28 when they were the only two people on Earth. Doesn't it seem reasonable that what God was saying there was along the lines of: God loves human beings and wants them to procreate in order to that the species of His creation may flourish and enjoy this great big Earth He created for them to live in? I don't think He meant that each and every one of us needs to do our part to personally try to "fill" the Earth by popping out as many kids as we possibly can until the Earth can't hold any more. Why in the world would we read it that way?

As a species, I think we've filled the Earth pretty well. Human beings now inhabit every continent on the planet, with cities, towns, villages, tribes and clans setting up camp in every climate imaginable.

Even the Catholic church, which is against contraception, but advocates "Natural Family Planning" because it holds that a couple should practice "responsible parenthood", and that leaving pregnancies "to chance" when, for example, a couple is struggling to provide for existing children is not an act of faith, but rather an improper "test" of God. Here's a good article for a summary of the Catholic viewpoint: http://www.christopherwest.com/article4.asp.

As for the story of Onan, he was expressly instructed to have sex his brother's wife for the purpose of having children for his brother. Gen 38:8. He purposefully decided that he didn't want to get his sister-in-law pregnant because he didn't want to give kids to his brother. So he acted in a way so as to make people think he was doing what he was told, while clandestinely thwarting the directive. Gen 38:9. God punished him for acting the way he did. Gen 38:10. It seems clear to me that Onan was being punished for blatent disobedience exercised in the spirit of prideful selfishness.  Don't you think God would have been similarly displeased if Onan had, for example, deliberately engaged in Natural Family Planning in order to deliberately try to avoid impregnating his sister-in-law? (I don't think NFP is any different from contraception ... )

I say, have your children and love them with all your heart and soul because they are indeed blessings. If you want to have sex for the sole purpose of having children and want to have as many as come to you by these means, that's great (and brave!) If you want two or three kids, that's great too. God bless.

[tonytony]

Nothing in the book to say birth control and wearing protection to avoid diseases is sin. I been brought up with this man made doctrine or tradition that's only from the devil. That's why you really need to know your leadership your under  otherwise your not fullfilling 1 Thessalonians 5:12 which is sin as much as lieing, stealing or adultery is. If they intentional in error with the book then obeying Galations 1:8-9 is a must. If they unintentional in error with the book then 2 Corinthians 11:2-3 cuts them some slack to follow their ministry and support them.

[cris]

For anyone interested:


No Abortions - No Exceptions

[Mathurin]

I agree with the person above who said that birth control pills of all types are abortion.  Abortion was specifically stated in the Didache(also known as the teaching of the twelve apostles, ca.  100-150 A.D.) as being a sin.  So, birth control and abortion have been considered immoral by all of Christianity since the apostles until 1930 when at the Anglican conference it was decided that Protestants had a new and better interpretation that allowed  for contraception.  Both Birth control and abortion are very old, not modern at all, and when abortion was mentioned in ancient texts many times it was used in the context of being a birth control agent and both were condemned.  Barrier methods such as condoms are a less grave offense in that they do not ever destroy life but are truly "contraceptive".   However, they do fall into the realm of the Onan story from Genesis.  I will note in opposition to the poster above that Onan was not acting on an order given from God but from his father.  The real question here should not be if contraception is wrong, but why after 1930 only the Protestants, and not the rest of Christendom, decided that they would reverse their position on birth control.  Was all of Christianity wrong until 1930?   Oh, and if anything, it has become easier to raise and afford children now, especially here in the richest society ever.

[nChrist]

titleist and others,

One thread has already been locked dealing with multiple wives. I have just deleted several posts by titleist trying again to switch the topic of this thread into multiple wives.

THIS IS A WARNING TITLEIST. -  NO!!

This is a Christian Family Forum with children as young as 8. This topic will not be discussed here - PERIOD! If you are determined to discuss multiple wives, go to a wife swapping forum or a Mormon forum. Don't try this again here.

Moderator

[Mathurin]

Oh, man!  I missed it!  I bet those were pretty funny posts.

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I should have been more clear in my last post. There is a reference in this thread to marriage and divorce, and marriage again. The attempted hijack of this thread was to multiple wives at the same time.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

[LedByTheLamb]

"The bible says nothing about contraception"....BECAUSE THERE WAS NONE!!!!
My main problem with contraception is that it does not stop the egg from being fertalized by sperm (conception...which is LIFE)  all it does is stop the fertilized egg from implanting in the womb.  Might as well be taking the abortion pill in my opinion.     I do agree that the Lord gives you what you can handle and that you have to trust Him on that.  Do I always do that..no.  Does anyone always fully trust him?  I had a tubal done, and I regret it to this day, but we had 3 children which WE felt was enough for our family, and our son has a bleeding disorder called Hemophilia that runs in my family and we didnt want to risk having another child with the genetic disorder...as its very expensive for medical treatment and hard to get a hemophiliac insured.  But I do wish I had just stopped, put my faith in GOD on it...if I had more children then God wanted me to, if they had hemophilia...well God will help me to handle it.  
I firmly believe that, these days, contraception is pretty much telling unmarried people to go ahead and have sex and not worry about pregnancy being a consequence...seems like a tool of the devil to me.  
Dawn