I Believe Most Of “Christianity” Today Is Lost

[Evangelist]

To me, it's sounds as if it's a part of the predestination theology, some were born to die and go to hell, and some were born chosen to go to heaven.  I really hope I'm wrong.  

Grace and peace,
cris

Almost, but not quite. These people were written about in the older times, they were known of by the prophets, and certainly were known of by God from the beginning....it's more foreknowledge than fore-ordination, or caused.

The greek for "before of old ordained" is
prographo palai prographo. Prographo is shown below:
1) to write before (of time)
a) of old set forth or designated before hand (in the scriptures of the OT)

2) to depict or portray openly
a) to write before the eyes of all who can read
b) to depict, portray, paint, before the eyes

So you can see it's not what you hoped it wasn't.  

[Jemidon2004]

Very well said felix102...you are correct in that there is the whole Body of Christ and the local church. i just got finished listening to a sermon by Adrian Rogers on Mature Christians...he said "There is a difference between growing old and growing mature...Some christians stay in the Immaturity phase WAY too long" How true is that...lol.

Joshua

[Jemidon2004]

I'm gonna post something D.L. Moody said about today's Churches and entertainment...just figured i'd post it here

D.L. Moody:
Then, another thing, I think, that grieves the Spirit, is the miserable policy of introducing questionable entertainments. There are lotteries, for instance, that we have in many churches. If a man wants to gamble, he doesn't have to go to some gambling den; he can stay in the church. And there are fairs - bazaars, as they call them - where they have rafflings and grab-bags. And if he wants to see a drama, he don't need to go to the theater, for many of our churches are turned into theaters; he may stay right in the church and witness the acting. I believe all these things grieve the Spirit of God. I believe when we bring the Church down to the level of the world to reach the world, we are losing all the while and grieving the Spirit of God.

      But some say, if we take that standard and lift it up high, it will drive away a great many members from our churches. I believe it, and I think the quicker they are gone the better. The world has come into the Church like a flood, and how often you find an ungodly choir employed to do the singing for the whole congregation; the idea that we need an ungodly man to sing praises to God! It was not long ago I heard of a church where they had an unconverted choir, and the minister saw something about the choir that he didn't like, and he spoke to the chorister, but the chorister replied: "You attend to your end of the church, and I will attend to mine." You can not expect the Spirit of God to work in a church in such a state as that.

 

[Evangelist]

ATA, Joshua.

We need to remember (and some need to learn) about how Peter preached on the day of Pentecost, and it's result.

"......it pricked them in their hearts..."

When we speak the truth (the Word), the Holy Spirit does the pricking, and it's only when HE does it that the result is genuine...one way or the other.

[Jemidon2004]

What is ATA? I enjoy looking at Peter's first sermon. He allowed the Holy Spirit to work through him. Him, a fisherman, a meager Jew...led 3000 people to Christ!! Peter gave the example of one who humbled himself before the Cross of Christ and diminshed himself so that Christ would be seen through his words. I think every Pastor needs to do this...if they don't then there is no substance behind their words. I'm glad you pointed the "it pricked them in their hearts" I just posted that earlier this very day...lol. Check out my reply in the other thread:

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=6765

you'll see the verses from Pentacost came to mind...lol. I'm very aware of what yyou're talking about! One body, one mind, one Spirit. God Bless

Joshua

[Evangelist]

What is ATA? I enjoy looking at Peter's first sermon. He allowed the Holy Spirit to work through him. Him, a fisherman, a meager Jew...led 3000 people to Christ!! Peter gave the example of one who humbled himself before the Cross of Christ and diminshed himself so that Christ would be seen through his words. I think every Pastor needs to do this...if they don't then there is no substance behind their words. I'm glad you pointed the "it pricked them in their hearts" I just posted that earlier this very day...lol. Check out my reply in the other thread:

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=6765

you'll see the verses from Pentacost came to mind...lol. I'm very aware of what yyou're talking about! One body, one mind, one Spirit. God Bless

Joshua

A Triple Amen

[Evangelist]

Reading through here made me remember an editorial I wrote several years ago....thought it might be a *little* appropriate to the thread.

Has Your Chewing Gum Lost Its Flavor?

As I was reading the article in this issue from George Barna, there were several things that he said that rang an immediate bell of agreement with me. While they are hard to be said, they are things that MUST be said...for if they are not, then I fear that the Body of Christ, HIS Church, in this country is in imminent danger of being treated like He warned the Laodiceans that He would do.

First, Barna said "Christianity is not having anywhere near the impact in our society that it could if those who are its adherents were to practice the fundamental principles of the faith on a 24-7 basis."

We certainly don't need to look far, or even deeply, to see the absolute truth of those words. On even the most basic levels of our society, we can see the degradation and elimination of essential aspects of our humanity. No one's word means anything anymore. Where once upon a time, contracts and deals were made with a shake of the hand, and the honor of the individuals making the deals was paramount, it is no longer unusual to see people saying anything to anyone for no purpose other than to make a buck, or gain an advantage. And the words are said with no intention of holding up their end of the bargain. Our society has essentially become a society of liars.

In business, it has become "de rigeur" to see how well the books can be cooked, or how much wool can be pulled over the investors/stockholders eyes, and "warranties" or guarantees have become useless pieces of paper with no value. It does no good whatsoever to say to yourself, "well, that's the other guy...they can't be Christian". Look again...the people who are doing this are not just the CEO's of Enron, they are the owners of your corner businesses, your neighbors, your fellow pew sitters. You know them. And, truth be said, if you look carefully in the mirror... The Barna research continues with "Specifically, Barna indicated that both churches and the Christian faith are perceived to have little influence in America because there is limited evidence that people's lives are any different as a result of their faith."

Read that again. "...there is LIMITED EVIDENCE that people's lives are any different as a result of their faith." Didn't the Apostle Paul write about Christians being "new", that "the old has passed away"? What does that say about the Church? It says that those who CLAIM to belong to Christ DO NOT live the life that He has told us to live. Jesus said "let your yea be yea, and your nay be nay", or put another way....tell the truth, and honor what you say you will do.

Christians are supposed to be people of faith. Didn¹t God say "without faith, it is impossible to please Him?" Didn't He also say that we "live by faith, and not by sight?" Then where is that expression of faith? Faith is not something that is just spoken, or said, and then forgotten. It is something that is lived, it is something that is done...it is LIFE itself! In Hebrews 11 we read the words "Now, faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things unseen". The Christian has faith that they are saved, and hope they will go to heaven. But do we give that faith, that hope, SUBSTANCE in our daily lives? Do we live as if we really did hope? And do we stand ready to "give account of the hope that lies within us?" Christians have a mental image of heaven, even though we can¹t see it. Do we present EVIDENCE in the way we live that we truly are not citizens of this earth, but of a HEAVENLY REALM? Is the evidence of our daily lives what it is supposed to be to make that evidence real and tangible in the life of someone else who has no hope?

Indeed, the Church in America today is exactly like the Church of Laodicea....fat, self-satisfied, replete and glutted with self-serving interests, unthankful to the Lord God who has provided them with so much, unthankful to each other, and interested in nothing more than having a good social, an outstanding meal, and a tear-jerking, knee-slapping singing. Oh...and don't forget the value of the buildings and grounds, the number of "ministries" that we offer, and the "solidity" of our bank accounts. We must be good stewards!

Barna says the path back to righteousness is not easy - "it takes a serious commitment of time and mental energy".

Well....duh! Being a Christian DOES take a serious commitment....one in the heart, one of truth, one of love and gratitude, and a DETERMINATION to be what Jesus commanded us to be...the salt and light of the earth.

It's time to wake up, Church. Before it's too late.

"If the salt has lost it's savor, what is it good for?"

[Bronzesnake]

 Here's an interesting perspective related question.

 Should pastors only preach to the saved?

 I think that comment by Moody is akin to the pharisees chastizing Jesus for being in the presence of sinners.

Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them.  As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. "Follow me,"Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.
While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?"

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Bronzesnake

[Evangelist]

Here's an interesting perspective related question.

 Should pastors only preach to the saved?

 I think that comment by Moody is akin to the pharisees chastizing Jesus for being in the presence of sinners.

Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them.  As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. "Follow me,"Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.
While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?"

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Bronzesnake

Hehe...opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, Bronze.

Ephesians 4...."and He gave some Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers........until we ALL come into.......stature of the FULLNESS of Christ"

Apostles: those who are grounded solidly enough in God's doctrine as to be able to perceive, point out, and correct those who deviate from sound doctrine.

Prophets: those who are specifically called to examine the ills of society and the church in light of Gods Word and to call loudly and pointedly for examination, repentence, and return to sound doctrine and way of life.

Evangelists: those who are tasked with and gifted to clearly announce the Gospel to those who are NOT saved.

Pastors/Teachers (the "and" lumps them together): those who are called and gifted to shepherd a group of Christians meeting together for the purpose of learning and growing, and to teach sound doctrine to the learners, to exhort them to growth and purpose; who have a special care and love for the "family", and who protects and cares...just as a mother hen gathers her young under her wings when danger lurks.

All of them have a calling to preach to the unsaved....but each has a special area of primary responsibility....and the gifting to accomplish that task.  Evangelists who try to pastor usually do a bad job, and vice-versa. Teachers who try to evangelize are usually a flop. and so on........

Jesus, now....He was(is) special. He could do them all.  

[Jemidon2004]

Pastors preach to the unsaved, and teach the saved...does that answer your question.

Don't get that confused with Preachers...who preach to the unsaved.

God Bless

Joshua

[MalkyEL]

A couple of questions  

Is the church supposed to preach to the unsaved at[sunday/saturday] gatherings?

What is the function of the church - to equip the saints or to keep them separated from the world?

shalom, nana

[felix102]

There is a universal Church which consists of all believers in Christ and a local church.

The universal Church is the body of Christ and that which is being built up. This is the bride of Christ.


Gen 2:21-22
"And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, He built up a woman, and brought her unto the man."


As Christ's side was pierced of where water and blood flowed (signifying life and redemption); there came His bride made of an unbreakable rib. And it is now being built up until the bride and bridegroom become one.

The post continued...

We are the Church. And we are being built up. What are we being built up into?

Gen 2:23-24
"The man said, 'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man."

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become ONE flesh."

We are being built up into Christ! Our destiny is to become like Christ. Jesus, the God-man possessing both humanity and divinity, came down for us so that we may possess divinity in our humanity.

gen 2:20
And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found a help meet for him.

There was not found a help meet for him... Who was this help meet? And who did it have to be? A woman. A woman who was made from a man. Out of all the species and their kind there was none suitable to be a counterpart for Adam. Only one the same as man was suitable. We do not see Humans marrying other species but Humans.

Likewise, Christ's bride will be just the same in nature and kind. Though we are have fallen short of the glory of God, we are constantly being transformed into Christ until one day we see Christ and become just as he is.

Brothers and Sisters, we belong to Lord Jesus; we are One with Him. We ARE the CHURCH. We are Christ's Body. We are Christ's bride.

[felix102]

Very well said felix102...you are correct in that there is the whole Body of Christ and the local church. i just got finished listening to a sermon by Adrian Rogers on Mature Christians...he said "There is a difference between growing old and growing mature...Some christians stay in the Immaturity phase WAY too long" How true is that...lol.

Joshua

Thanks brother. I just wanted to clarify the difference between  the Church, the Body of Christ (which is us), and the local church. That they are not the same things.


There definetely is a difference between growing old and maturing. lol. It does not matter how long you live BUT how long you live IN Christ. That is growing in Christ and maturing in Him. Simply focusing your entire being, heart, mind, and all your strength on Him and walking in Christ will make us grow. Our life is in Jesus. Keep walking with Jesus and keep eating Him. "To live is Christ!!"

Amen brother

[AVBunyan]

A couple of questions  

1. Is the church supposed to preach to the unsaved at[sunday/saturday] gatherings?

2. What is the function of the church - to equip the saints or to keep them separated from the world?

shalom, nana

1. Yes, I believe it is the duty of the bishop, pastor, minister, etc. to be sensitive and be prepared to get the gospel in for the following reasons:
a. He should be aware that even some the most faithful members may stlll be unregenerate.
b. There could be visitors
c. Even the truly saved need to hear again the good news for reflection and review

But...what has happened (especially in Baptist churches - I am a Baptist so I can pick on them here) is that their preaching services have centered on preaching only to the lost to the point where the saved get wore out and starved out by not hearing more of the resurrected Crhsit expounded.  Sad but true

2. EXCELLENT QUESTION AND I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD START A SEPARATE THREAD ON THIS QUESTION - my opinion.

God bless

[Evangelist]

I ran across this, and couldn't help but make a paraphrase in re today's church.

Parchments are dyed purple, gold is melted into lettering, manuscripts aire decked with jewels, while Christ lies at the door naked and dying. -- Jerome, Epistle xxii.32

Sunday programs are adorned with bright colors and pictures, faux gold ink is used on the tithe envelopes, hymnals are emblazoned with the name of the church and who gave it, while Christ stands and knock on the door to be allowed in...........and no one opens the door.