Election 2004!

[Andrew Fritz]

Hmmm....

The whole point of my post is that as Americans and as a Democracy people think differently and are allowed to have opinions.

Am I wrong for voting for Kerry? No

Is anyone else wrong for voting for Bush? No

Both liberals and conservatives want to make this a better country, because we all love this country. We just have different ideas of how to make it better. There's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinions or ideas.

Viva La Vie Boheme!

 

You have made a very interesting comment. It is true that both political parties (for the most part) want to make America better. And you're right, they both have very different methods for reaching those goals.

But I would challenge you to reconsider the methods and philosophies driving liberal minded candidates. Because you must understand how dangerous they are. Most liberals would love to be in control; they think they could "fix" America, and solves almost every problem with their ideas. But what they don't see is how their methods don't work. History has proven over and over again, socialism doesn't work, capitalism does; big government doesn't work, small government does. But they continue on without any regard to the lessons of the past.

The easiest way to illustrate this is too look at other countries where liberals have almost free reign. Has liberalism, socialism, and big government fixed their problems? Not at all. America by far is the best country where liberty and God given rights are being preserved. And consequently, it's one of the only countries where conservative philosophies still have the upper-hand. So instead of unknowingly destroying this country's liberties and freedoms, I think the liberals should head over to just about any other countries where the utopia of their dreams and ideas for america all already in working order. And the truth of the matter is they themselves would not like to live in these countries. But they sadly don't realize that the totalitarianism in these places is a direct affect of liberal methods of government. They go hand in hand. Again, look at history.

[Kalthzar]

When has socialism been implemented properly?

[Andrew Fritz]

When has socialism been implemented properly?

What do you mean?

[nChrist]

Hello Andrew Fritz,

I'm just now reading your first and second post. WELCOME!!! to Christians Unite.

I also just came from the link you listed that encourages Christians to vote. I've always believed strongly that Christians should vote. In fact, I believe it is a Christian duty to vote.

We live in a country with government by the people and for the people. Remaining silent about our leadership, in effect, is exactly what the devil wants us to do. I've always wondered why so many Christians remain silent while the devil is slowly taking over our country. I've thought that some may not feel like any of the candidates are Godly enough to be worthy of a vote. I understand that, but I don't agree with it. It is a matter of great importance to our future and the future of our children, including the freedom to worship God. It should be a matter of prayer by every Christian, asking God who will best serve God's interest and will. It can't be a matter of waiting for a perfect candidate before voting. There will never be any perfect candidates.

If we watch, listen, and pray, God will give us guidance about who will best serve. I would ask every Christian to do just this:

Watch

Listen

Pray

Vote

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Andrew Fritz]

Hello Andrew Fritz,

I'm just now reading your first and second post. WELCOME!!! to Christians Unite.

I also just came from the link you listed that encourages Christians to vote. I've always believed strongly that Christians should vote. In fact, I believe it is a Christian duty to vote.

If we watch, listen, and pray, God will give us guidance about who will best serve. I would ask every Christian to do just this:

Watch

Listen

Pray

Vote


Love In Christ,
Tom

Thank you for the friendly welcome. What you went on to say goes right into my heart. I've been deeply concerned about Christians voting. I run into some of them who don't vote, and others who waste there vote on non-viable candidates; it's frustrating that I can't make them understand how important voting is, and how our country is really at stake.

In fact, that website you visited is one that I published just about over a week ago. I am currently in a major campaign to get the information on that website to thousands of Christians within the next couple days before the election. I noticed that you also have a website. If you would, please consider helping the effort by posting a link to the site on your homepage. If that's something you'd like to to do, there are some really nice pre-made buttons and banners provided here on the site:

http://www.christiansneedtovote.com/links.htm

[nChrist]

Andrew Fitz,

Brother, please let me know if you plan to leave the site up past the Presidential Election. I firmly believe that Christians should vote in all elections, not just national elections.

I have been considering adding more links to my site. If you are planning to continue the site, I will definitely pray about adding your link and quite a few others that are heavily Christian oriented.

Please - consider a listing with Christians Unite and many free services to Christian Web Masters. Just click the Christian Web Master services on  the left side of every forum page. Christians Unite serves thousands of Christian Web Masters.

Here's the requirements for free services to Christian Web Masters:
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« on: April 23, 2004, 05:03:39 AM »      

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Love In Christ,
Tom

[Kalthzar]

Ahh sorry just looked up the definition of socialism, its different from communim, so i suppose i meant "when has communism been implemented properly?", but thats not a proper response to your post.

[Andrew Fritz]

Andrew Fitz,

Brother, please let me know if you plan to leave the site up past the Presidential Election. I firmly believe that Christians should vote in all elections, not just national elections.

I have been considering adding more links to my site. If you are planning to continue the site, I will definitely pray about adding your link and quite a few others that are heavily Christian oriented.

Please - consider a listing with Christians Unite and many free services to Christian Web Masters. Just click the Christian Web Master services on  the left side of every forum page. Christians Unite serves thousands of Christian Web Masters.
_______________________________

ALSO - Please consider the free classifieds on the main portion of Christians Unite. It reaches many thousands of Christians daily.

Love In Christ,
Tom

The website in it's current form was written and geared towards a last minute "get out the christian vote" effort. But I am considering putting up some other form of the website after the election. I haven't decided for sure whether to do that or not, and if so, what to put on the site. The mistake I made this year was not getting the site up until just two weeks before the election. I would have liked to have done it a couple months before the election if I had gotten the idea earlier. I just think the website has a much more powerful impact in an election year, when voting is right around the corner. So I'm not sure if it would be effective during times when the information is not as real and relevant to people.

I have been in contact with Christians Unite prior to posting in the forum. In fact, that's the reason I discovered this website. I will be looking into those suggestions you gave me. Thank you.

[ZakDar]

Whew! At the risk of wading into this political cesspool....LOL!!

I'm not American, but we do get to vote in Canda also. It's a bit different as pieces of the country are sliced up into geographical regions. There are reps from most (if not all) political parties with members running in each of these geographical slices (ridings). These ridings represent one "seat" in government, and the party with the majority of seats forms the next government.

In my particular riding in the last election last year, there were 4 candidates. Each presented their views, to which I studied, (with some help).

Some were for same sex marriage, some were not. Some were for legalized dope, some were not. However, one thing they ALL supported was abortion. Therefore, I was left with no alternative but to submit a protest vote, which is nothing more than an empty ballot.

I don't really care about who won, who lost, or what the consequences are/will be. All I know is that I DID vote God's will because there's no way on this earth I will vote for murder.

[Allinall]

Allinall,

AMEN BROTHER!!  You really said it all. I will pray daily for our leaders, regardless of who is elected.

Brother, have fun on the men's retreat. I hope that God blesses all who attend.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Thanks Brother!

The retreat was great!  It was on the syptoms, consequences and solution to pride.  All the way through the messages the only solution I could think of was seeing God as He is.  When we do that, we can't help but see ourselves through His eyes.  When it came down to the solution, the pastor spoke from Isaiah 6, and on how the only way to deal with pride successfully is to see Who God is, and let that reflect on who we truly are.  He also pointed out a myriad of aspects I hadn't thought of that clarified and solidified that concept in my heart.  It was a true blessing.

That, the steaks and the Axis and Allies game...

[Allinall]

I'm not sure if it's some other complaint, but I think this thread is causing me actual physical harm.

I know what you're going to say but why, oh,why is Bush on God's side, or more moral or whatever you seem to think he is. To be honest, I'm sure you're right about some points on Kerry, but I really don't think this is a sensible way to do politics.
Meh, I'm not sure this is making sense. I'm not very good at eloquently putting my point across, and neither am i going to make any of you think about things either. Oh well

Actually, I said that God was on Bush's side.  And yes, I was speaking with a great deal of liberty.  No, I don't believe that God holds George W in a higher esteem than He does Kerry.  Rather, I believe, as the verse I posted stated, that God sets up leaders and takes them down.  I believe W to be a leader given by the grace of God.  I fear Kerry will be a leader given by the judgment of God.

I know.  That made it all as clear as mud...

As for the sensibilities it affords me in politics, I'll simplify it to the extreme.  I vote for who and what I feel is right.  Not who or what I feel I like.

That help any?

[nChrist]

Allinall,

Brother, I'm glad your group had fun on the retreat. It sounds like you had a precious time in His Word. The subject matter is important to all of us, specifically because our attitude can bring us closer to Jesus and increase our fellowship with His children.

I'll be glad when this election is over, but I read about thousands of lawyers lined up for a brawl. Who knows when it will be over? I think this is a time to pray for our country, that what Godly traditions and freedoms we have left will be preserved.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[FayeC]

Welcome back La Vie B!  Now, just to set the record straight...

...if you believe in growing babies to kill for their stem cells...vote for Kerry.

...if you believe that it's best to save the mother's life, with, or without her approval, by crushing the skull of her baby while it is being born...vote Kerry.

...if you believe that Adam and Steve have every right to be a married couple in the eyes of God and in the law of this land...vote Kerry.

...if you have a moral bone in your body...don't vote Kerry.  Vote Bush.


   WB!!!!

What difference does it make that Bush believes in the same moral values that we christian conservatives believe in?!.....The question is; Has he done anything to restore moral values to our country?  Have ANY of the "conservative" Presidents we've elected done that?   Have they appointed christian conservative judges who would overturn abortion, etc?  

I don't know about you, but I've been waiting for forty-two years for one of those "conservative" Presidents whom we've elected to restore prayer to our nation's schools, but it hasn't happened yet, and it never will.

Same thing with legal "abortions", which have been on the books for some 30 years now.....NO PRESIDENT, regardless his personal conviction, is going to go against the laws of our land, and attempt to overthrow those laws....not even your beloved George Bush.....He's already proven that!, and so have the others before him.

On the other hand, John Kerry is no better...but AT LEAST he has enough decency to admit to us that he's not going to attempt to change those laws which are already on the books, whereas Bush does not.

The problem is; you, like all my fellow christian conservatives, are looking for a "political" savior to get us out of the immoral quagmire which America is in, and sad to say, you're not going to find one.



   

[nChrist]

FayeC Said:

Same thing with legal "abortions", which have been on the books for some 30 years now.....NO PRESIDENT, regardless his personal conviction, is going to go against the laws of our land, and attempt to overthrow those laws....not even your beloved George Bush.....He's already proven that!, and so have the others before him.

FayeC,

I guess that you don't read the news. George Bush tried and he's still trying. In fact, he almost got something done, and the momentum is growing. George Bush has done 100 times more to end abortion than all other presidents combined since Roe vs. Wade.

On the other side of the coin, Kerry states he will never appoint a judge who will touch Roe vs. Wade. In reality, Bush has morals and Kerry doesn't. However, it takes considerable support in the House and Senate to get major and controversial things like that done. By the way, Bush did come close, but Kerry promises the opposite of trying to do anything about abortion. Kerry promises to protect it for future generations. So, let's get real.

The only morals Kerry has is play acting at the last minute because he now knows that he needs some Christians to vote for him. The acting was extremely poor. I wouldn't vote for Kerry for dog catcher, much less President of the United States. I'm sorry to be so shy about Kerry. If I keep working on it, I might develop a solid opinion by the time to vote.  

[Kristi Ann]

Yikes all,

Pray for this Vote 2004!!


I already voted in Oregon and mailed a week ago.  So Please Pray for the Presdential Prayer Team!!!


Blessings,  \o/