homosexuality

[2nd Timothy]

Hi KristiAnn,

Not sure if your comments were concerning my last post or not, but my intent was not to pass judgment on anyone.  I was simply stating what Gods word has to say about the subject.  His word is the final authority on expected Christian living.  I agree that God loves us all dearly as it says...

Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

As I said before, Gods agenda is sin because it seperates us from Him.  Without us conforming to Christ and allowing him to grant us repentance of sin (no matter what the sin) we cannot commune with Him.   Is this passing judgement on anyone, or this simply stating the truth of Gods word which we will all be judged by when we stand before Him as Supreme judge?    

BTW, no harsh tones here, I agree that Love is required in these discussions, but so is truth which is sometimes harsh, especially when we resist it.

Grace and Peace!

[Kristi Ann]

Hello Tim,

I wasn't replying to your post.  I replied the the whole thread.


Blessings,  \o/

KristiAnn

[Allinall]

I heard a guy who works in prison ministries once preach a message about the progress of sin, and when God may stop contending with that nation:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.  For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.  (1)For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.  Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
(2)Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

(3)For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.  (4)And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.  They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.  (5)Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Romans 1:18-32

He presented it as somewhat of a downward spiral:

1)  They don't honor God as God.  In our nations past, we have done much to dishonor Him, from removing prayer in school, to attempting today to remove His name from our pledges, and His Word from our legal institutions, to denying His power in creation by adopting a scientifically theoretic solution to Him.  "Claiming to be wise, they became fools."  Is this not true of our society today?  If so, then consider...

2)  God gave them up to the impure lusts of their hearts.  In our past, and more so in our present, pornography, sex, drugs, alcoholism and the like have slowly crept in.  Now, it's everywhere.  What was once considered pornography is now considered an acceptable advertisement suitable for a billboard.  What once was considered a drug, is now being questioned as a viable medicinal drug.  And it goes on.  I don't have to tell you.  You can see it.  What once was considered taboo in our nation is now considered the norm.  It doesn't take a genius to see that many in our nation have been "given up to their lusts."  If so, then...

3)  God gave them up to their dishonorable passions.  This speaks undeniably of homosexuality.  Their are those who deny it, but are simply chosing to believe what they want rather than what God says here.  And why are they given this route?  Because God gave them up.  If you had a question about whether or not God has given many in our nation up to their sinful lusts, then looking at the Gay Marriage movement should put that to rest.  What's more?  When the women are involved, it's climaxing to the end course.  How so?  Historically, one of the major symptoms in a society's decline is not just homosexuality, but when the women are drawn into it as well.  Just look at Rome.  Do you see it?  If so...

4)  Since they don't acknowledge God, He not only lets them think impure thoughts, He lets them act on them.  Just look at our nation today.  We kill babies and call it "a choice."  We support the immoral lifestyle of our youth and call it teaching "safe sex."  We support homosexuals and call it "alternative lifestyles."  We support the union of homosexuals and call it "Gay Marriage."  We do each of these things.  What once was a thought is now an action and a pressing desire for more action.  Just look at a newspaper and see the murder, slander, hate and the like.  It should make the hairs on our necks rise when we consider what Paul has said here in this passage.  Do you see it?  If so...

5)  They know God will destroy them, but they do, and support those who do as well.  Hmmmmm...hard one to see here, isn't it?  We have politicians debating right now as to whether or not we will, as a nation, support them.  Praise ALMIGHTY GOD that we have a President standing up to this and attempting to lead us in the right direction.  Do you see it?  If so...

THEN VOTE!!![/b][/u]

Just a thought...

[Kristi Ann]

"Christian's are Not Perfect, Just Forgiven!" Lets all remember this Please!

[2nd Timothy]

I heard a guy who works in prison ministries once preach a message about the progress of sin, and when God may stop contending with that nation:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.  For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.  (1)For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.  Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
(2)Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

(3)For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.  (4)And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.  They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.  (5)Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Romans 1:18-32

He presented it as somewhat of a downward spiral:

1)  They don't honor God as God.  In our nations past, we have done much to dishonor Him, from removing prayer in school, to attempting today to remove His name from our pledges, and His Word from our legal institutions, to denying His power in creation by adopting a scientifically theoretic solution to Him.  "Claiming to be wise, they became fools."  Is this not true of our society today?  If so, then consider...

2)  God gave them up to the impure lusts of their hearts.  In our past, and more so in our present, pornography, sex, drugs, alcoholism and the like have slowly crept in.  Now, it's everywhere.  What was once considered pornography is now considered an acceptable advertisement suitable for a billboard.  What once was considered a drug, is now being questioned as a viable medicinal drug.  And it goes on.  I don't have to tell you.  You can see it.  What once was considered taboo in our nation is now considered the norm.  It doesn't take a genius to see that many in our nation have been "given up to their lusts."  If so, then...

3)  God gave them up to their dishonorable passions.  This speaks undeniably of homosexuality.  Their are those who deny it, but are simply chosing to believe what they want rather than what God says here.  And why are they given this route?  Because God gave them up.  If you had a question about whether or not God has given many in our nation up to their sinful lusts, then looking at the Gay Marriage movement should put that to rest.  What's more?  When the women are involved, it's climaxing to the end course.  How so?  Historically, one of the major symptoms in a society's decline is not just homosexuality, but when the women are drawn into it as well.  Just look at Rome.  Do you see it?  If so...

4)  Since they don't acknowledge God, He not only lets them think impure thoughts, He lets them act on them.  Just look at our nation today.  We kill babies and call it "a choice."  We support the immoral lifestyle of our youth and call it teaching "safe sex."  We support homosexuals and call it "alternative lifestyles."  We support the union of homosexuals and call it "Gay Marriage."  We do each of these things.  What once was a thought is now an action and a pressing desire for more action.  Just look at a newspaper and see the murder, slander, hate and the like.  It should make the hairs on our necks rise when we consider what Paul has said here in this passage.  Do you see it?  If so...

5)  They know God will destroy them, but they do, and support those who do as well.  Hmmmmm...hard one to see here, isn't it?  We have politicians debating right now as to whether or not we will, as a nation, support them.  Praise ALMIGHTY GOD that we have a President standing up to this and attempting to lead us in the right direction.  Do you see it?  If so...

THEN VOTE!!![/b][/u]

Just a thought...

Sobering when put this way.  Thanks Brother!

Grace and Peace!

[Allinall]

You're welcome Brother!

[ollie]

We are all born sinners,

1st Corinthians 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

If you care for my interpretation of this text, ONCE you are washed by the blood of the lamb, sanctified so to speak, Justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ--YOU CAN NO LONGER HOLD THESE TITLES.  You ARE Christ's

So, there IS no such thing as a homosexual preist BECAUSE God takes that title away and covers you with His Title.  You are God's.  You belong to God and He has taken away the shame and any names people might call you.

You can therefore say, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but those names no longer apply to me!""

So, even if you don't find that scripture where you think it says that folks are born homosexuals, we do know we are born sinners, but when we are washed in the blood of the lamb, we are no longer to be called sinners.

And that's the way I see it.

Peace

Sin is transgression of the law. How does an unborn baby transgress the law before it is born in order to be born a sinner? It seems a contradiction.

Ollie

[Mxyzptlk]

"Christian's are Not Perfect, Just Forgiven!" Lets all remember this Please!

Good to keep in mind, but even so, there is a line that exists between falling into sin and asking forgiveness, and knowingly, openly, and willfully becoming involved in unrepentant sin.  There are those who try to blur the liines of distinction to make them seem not so bad to human thinking, and thus justify behavior that is not pleasing to God.  

To my thinking, standing on the one side of the line, in need of forgiveness for sin and realizing and asking for forgiveness, may be termed Christian, but being on the other side of that liine may not be.  This willfullness of behavior and attitude is what Paul addressed when he wrote:

"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to  sound teaching" (1 Tim. 1:8-10).

He makes similar remarks in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."

As long as by your quote of this common bumper sticker theology, you are not suggesting any kind of "I'm OK, you're OK" approach to understanding this issue, then I agree it's an appropriate statement.  But there are those who use the same kinds of phrases to suggest we just sweep it all under the carpet and make no call on it.  I for one can't go that route, because:

• Paul calls it "contrary to sound teaching," and "unrighteous"
• He says if we accept these practices as okay, we are "deceived"
• He says the end result is, no inheritance of the Kingdom of God.

My question is, if it is contrary to sound Christian teaching, if it leads away from the Kingdom of God, and if believing differently is a deception, then would the statement of "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" even apply, since it seems, generally speaking, that the two seem incompatible?

R.M.

[Kristi Ann]

Dear  Mxyzptlk,

Welcome to Christian's Unite!


There is also this in the B-I-B-L-E!!!

Matthew 7:1-5

1   JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.

2   For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3   And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4   Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5   Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
   


And Love is defined this way!


1 Corinthians 13


1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;

5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;

6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;

7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man (or woman), I put away childish things.

12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
 
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.



Remember Love those that hate you, use you, step on you, Leave you.


Love is very hard to define sometimes;

We cannot touch it, grab it, nor find it, or how can I buy it (sorry it's Not for sale!), we cannot look for love, we cannot keep it, sometimes we lose it!!!


Blessings,  \o/

[Mxyzptlk]

Amen to the Word, and blessings to you also.

But I'm afraid I don't see posting a theological opinion, based on what God has said clearly in His Word, as "judging."  

As I recall, I ended with a question.

And on the subject of love:

If the Bible clearly says that something is sinful;

if it also says that same sin, persisted in, will keep them from heaven;

How on God's green earth can it be considered "loving" to simply pretend as though it is not there, and turn one's head the other way and say nothing?

I find it ironic that at the same time many people cry out against "judging" when anyone expresses biblical opinions, they turn right around and label opinions that are counter to their own as "gay-bashing," which is for the most part a judgment call in itself, and one that is generally overused.

[sincereheart]

Amen to the Word, and blessings to you also.

But I'm afraid I don't see posting a theological opinion, based on what God has said clearly in His Word, as "judging."  

As I recall, I ended with a question.

And on the subject of love:

If the Bible clearly says that something is sinful;

if it also says that same sin, persisted in, will keep them from heaven;

How on God's green earth can it be considered "loving" to simply pretend as though it is not there, and turn one's head the other way and say nothing?

I find it ironic that at the same time many people cry out against "judging" when anyone expresses biblical opinions, they turn right around and label opinions that are counter to their own as "gay-bashing," which is for the most part a judgment call in itself, and one that is generally overused.

Well stated!

 

"Grace is about being forgiven, but it's not an excuse to keep on sinning!
It's about freedom FROM sin, but not freedom TO sin!"