DO PEOPLE KEEP THE RIGHT TO FREE WILL, EVEN WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING IN THE

[Heidi]

Of course i sin! There was only ONE sinless man whoever lived. that passage you quoted said; "The one who PRACTICES righteousness is righteous, the one who PRACTICES sin is of the devil..." I do not PRACTICE sin. I seek God's forgiveness whenever i see may sin and ask God who is faithful and just to forgive me. Notice a little further down where it says; "For this purpose the Son of God is revelad; to DESTROY the works of the devil..." It is only GOD'S FORGIVENESS that can take away my sin. In 1 John it also said; "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." Pauls also said; "For the good that I want to do i cannot carry out." As we ask an receive forgiveness, God REPLACES our sins with his forgiveness until one day, all that's left in us is his spirit of forgiveness, love, and mercy." NO Christian ENDORSES or CONDONES sin but seeks forgiveness for it. Therefore, no Christians PRACTICES sin.

[sojourner]

Heidi,

Again; "No one can come the me unless the Father who sen me draws him." Since you don't understand how God draws us and how HE CAHNGES our hearts, you will then think that it's YOU YOURSELF who comes to God.

Same-o, Same-o Heidi,

You interpret me to make it fit so your view stands.
First, the paraphrased verse you use, you had better recheck again. If you really want to use this text for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and it is only the indwelling Spirit that calls, thus all are believers because you have previously stated that you know that the Spirit dwells only in the believer.  Thus by sheer logic you are supporting a universalist view. All men literally are saved, period.

The text makes it possible for the Holy Spirit to work in the world. That is the universe. See Acts 2:16-21. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel 2. We, that is the universe was redeemed so that the Holy Spirit could be poured out on mankind, not believers or would be believers. It is this work, external, through the word, that convicts you to make a decision. THAT DECISION IS ALL YOU. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything else. There is absolutely nothing to boast about, because if Christ had not died and been risen, the Spirit could not call me, and I would have been uable to answer his call. That makes it all Him and not me in the least that got me to the decision. However, THE DECISION IS MINE TO MAKE, CHANGE, TO REJECT, TO QUENCH THE SPIRIT.

Now, once upon conversion, repentance, baptism, regeneration, the Holy Spirit is given to you internally, {indwelt) Now, Heidi, He works with you. He does not do for you. It could not even happen that way. I know you don't believe in man having a will, but that is also unscriptural, or that he looses his will and becomes a pawn of either the devil or the Holy Spirit.
It is totally illogical, let alone unscriptural, to think that either one is making the decisions. One may be in command, one more so than the other, but that is your choice of how you deal with those forces. If not, then we have an actual war  inside of you between the Holy Spirit and the devil, and as Micheal has already pointed out, the Holy Spirit has lost some of these battles if you look at it this way.  
You can believe this, that is your choice. But if you want to stick to the scriptural view and the gospel as once given, believed and taught by the Apostles, then your view is in error. You have yet to show that I might be in error in total or even partially.

The big point being, I do actually understand how we are called and how we are changed. However, you have not shown  anything which might indicate you know anything of what you speak and show it to be scriptural and have some reality to it.
It is and has been Heidism up to this point.

[Heidi]

Do you know who rules false prophets, sojourner? Jesus said the Counselor is the spirit of truth. So how then can false prophets have the Holy Spirit in them? It's impossible. Deceit comes from  the devil. As Jesus said, "not all who call me 'Lord' Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven." Many, many, proclaimed believers are NOT coming from the Holy Spirit. Only the ones who KNOW Christ because he is living in THEM, are his true sheep. Jesus said; "Now this is eternal life; that you KNOW the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent." Period. But the many people who say; "Lord, we cast out demons, prophesied, and performed many miracles in your name." But jesus said; "But when the owner of the house closes the door, he will say; "I never KNEW you. Get away from me, you evildoers!"

Oh so YOU make it possible for the Holy Spirit to do good works, instead the the Holy Spirit making it possible for YOU to do good works! You have changed Jesus's words; "I can do nothing without my father" to "my Father can do nothing without ME!" Talk about twisting and boasting! Again, Sojourner, until you receive the Holy Spirit inside of you, you will have no spiritual discernment and can only twist Jesus's words. I'll pray that you receive it.

[sojourner]

Heidi,

Do you know who rules false prophets, sojourner? Jesus said the Counselor is the spirit of truth. So how then can false prophets have the Holy Spirit in them? It's impossible. Deceit comes from  the devil.

Why are you asking? Did I say the opposite. I don't recall, I kind of doubt it.

Oh so YOU make it possible for the Holy Spirit to do good works, instead the the Holy Spirit making it possible for YOU to do good works!

Again, I checked and I have not so stated. You will need to quote this as well. I think you are again paraphrasing something to suit your view, not really what I stated.
What was stated is that Christ's Work makes it possible for any human being to have communion with God. This makes it possible for the Holy Spirit to call all men to repentance and once an individual believes, is converted, regenerated, the Holy Spirit assist that individual in doing the works for which man was created.

For a change Heidi, why not try to quote or paraphase correctly without putting your interpretation on what someone stated and make it a lie. You are quite dishonest to say the least.

You are then a universalist? You did'nt clarify that statment I made regarding the logical implications of your view.
It amazes me also that I several days ago in other posts had asked you direct questions and they are never answered. Micheal has asked direct questions attempting to get clarifications and no response either.
If anyone shows fear it is you. You cannot stand behind your view. You have yet to prove it is anything but heidism.
Lots of accusations but no proof of them.

[WhatSayYou]

God gave man the law because his intention was that they show love for one another by adhering to the law.  But that didn't work, so he sent Jesus, who said obey my commandments and by obeying them you will have perfected the intention of the law which is unconditional love for thy neighbor and thy enemy. Through this perfection of love, he rewards us with eternal life and forgives us our sins on the day of judgment.  

The practice of repentance results in deep sorrow and confession of our sins and keeps our heart's intention pure.

[JudgeNot]

For God knows the heart's intention.  We cannot hide this from Him.

Amen.

[sojourner]

Whatsayyou,

Excellent posts. Amen.

[iconHis]

If we don't have free will, and or what free will entails:

Without free will we wouldn't have to be chastised, therefore no trials.

We would all be perfect because God would be forcing it to control us, and He can't have anything wrong with Him, He is perfect -  if we didn't have free will.

We wouldn't have "possible" rewards without free will.

We generally wouldn't have to be instructed on anything and given a choice to walk in love if we didn't have free will.

But most of all, God loves us and wants fellowship with us and gave us each a unique being that choses to live His will for a full life of joy in the Lord, or not to have a relationship and fellowship with Him.

I choose all that God wants for His will, and to live in the joy of the Lord!                  Love In Christ,  iconHis

[Allinall]

Heidi,

 

So Oillie, if Jesus had CHOSEN to disobey God, then God would have been wrong in giving Jesus the power to do His will, would He not? I guess that God is really fallible instead of infallible. His power had NOTHING tp do with Jesus's decisions. Jesus's HUMAN nature was simply stronger than God's power in Him.  I guess that makes Jesus wrong too when he said; "I can do nothing without my Father."  Wonders never cease.

Well then explain this.

God knew Job's heart and that he would never forsake the lord even if he was stripped of everything in the world he had.  His own wife told Him to go against God.  How could a God that loves you so much do this to you she said?  But God knew Job's heart and let the devil in to try to destroy him and his love for God.  Job exercised free will, and God forsaw the outcome of his decision, because he knew his heart. Then and in the future.  For God is all knowing.

You've used Job as your example many times.  However, the theme of the book of Job is God's sovereignty.  See, Job goes through all of this...because of his free will choice to obey God and not curse Him?  Because God forsaw Job's decision?  If so, then the book is about Job.  Problem is, it isn't.  

I love the way the book ends.  Job goes through all of these things, and yes, freely choses not to curse God and die.  Yet throughout the book he continuely asks to plead his case before God, so that if there was sin in his life, he'd know it.  When the book concludes, what does God say?  You'd think there'd be a "well done thou good and faithful servant, here's everything back two-fold."  But that's not what God said.  Rather, He takes 4 chapters to ask Job a few questions.  Namely, "Where were you when I..." questions.  He goes on about how He feeds the animals, helps them give birth; how He set the oceans and the tides and more.  Then He tells Job something very interesting.  He says "Let he who would contend with the Lord answer this."  He then goes on to illustrate His power not only in creation, but over it as well.

To me, at least, Job was taught a very valuable lesson.  He didn't need to be wrong to be under the persacution he was suffering.  Such treatment didn't need to be punishment.  Simply, God is still God.  He taught Job that He was Sovereign over all, regardless of what Job thought.  Job had a depth of understanding concerning that sovereignty far greater than we do before his trial.  He made Job, and could do with Job whatever He willed to do to Job.  Job learned it and grew from it.  When will we?