What Must We Do To Be Saved?

[Soldier4Christ]

It is an evil theology. It is exclusionary. An "I am better than thou because God chose me" belief.

[cris]

It is an evil theology. It is exclusionary. An "I am better than thou because God chose me" belief.

Thanks for that PR.  You're the first person, besides me, that ever said they thought that, too.  Exclusionary, oh yeah, that's my thought exactly.  God is NO respecter of persons.  How does that fit in with their 5 PT theology?

[Soldier4Christ]

It is an evil theology. It is exclusionary. An "I am better than thou because God chose me" belief.

Thanks for that PR.  You're the first person, besides me, that ever said they thought that, too.  Exclusionary, oh yeah, that's my thought exactly.  God is NO respecter of persons.  How does that fit in with their 5 PT theology?

It doesn't. They also overlook the fact that Jesus died for all that will accept Him as their Saviour. Yes I do believe that God knows wich one will and which ones won't accept Him even before the foundations of the earth. This does not mean that He excluded anyone. It is the individual that excludes themselves.

[JudgeNot]

Pastor Roger said

They also overlook the fact that Jesus died for all...

Pastor Roger – you are absolutely, undeniably correct.  ALL means ALL!

ALL have a choice to make.  

The choice is clear.  And I ain't talkin' abortion!

Oh - excuuuuuuuuuuuse me!  'Abortion' (killing the most innocent of humans) is now refered to as "a woman's reproductive freedom"  That term from the hate-filled and hate-spreaders, makes me puke - literally.  (Forgive me - I went off on a tangent, there.)

uhmmm....  Jesus MUST BE a personal choice.  God made it that way.  God knows what He is doing...

JN

[nChrist]

Amen Brothers and Sisters!

YES!!! - Jesus Christ died for ALL, and all can believe in HIM and ask HIM to be LORD over their lives.

Some confuse "predestination" with what our Creator knew before the foundation of the world, including the number of hairs on our heads. Almighty God's foreknowledge of ALL in eternity past does not mean that JESUS only died for a few on the Cross or that any believer would be denied the Love and Salvation of JESUS.

It's a rotten shame that this simple truth confuses so many. Some who really need JESUS might feel that they are on some sort of reject list for Salvation because of what they have done in the past or some other thought that is advanced by this false doctrine.

It's really simple to make one category for folks who will be lost:

Those who refuse and reject JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour over their lives.

It really doesn't matter that Almighty God obviously did and does know who will and who won't believe in JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour. We are simply part of HIS Creation, and we should never doubt that the CREATOR of all knows all, and nothing was hidden from HIM from eternity past and eternity future. The same is true regarding our lives, our thoughts, our deeds, our motives, and what we mistakenly believe to be secret about us. Absolutely nothing is secret from the CREATOR!

Some like to take these foreknowledge facts and twist them into something they ARE NOT. Almighty God does not force us to accept or reject Salvation, and HE didn't make us robots. HIS foreknowledge of us is simply that of all ALL POWERFUL AND ALL KNOWING ALMIGHTY GOD!

If you are lost and reading this, PLEASE! take the time to read this and understand that you ARE NOT without hope. HEAR God's Word and listen carefully about what JESUS CHRIST did for you on the Cross. It doesn't matter what you've done in the past. Jesus Christ died on the Cross for you, and HE wants to forgive your sins. JESUS already loves you, and HE wants you to return HIS love. HIS blood on the CROSS is payment for your sins, however bad they are, and HE wants to live in your heart forever. JESUS has loved you from the start, regardless of the bad things you have done in your life. If you believe in JESUS and confess your sins, HE will be faithful and just to forgive your sins. If you want HIM and ask HIM, HE will become the LORD over your life, and you will be delivered from the punishment that we all deserve. In fact, HE will come to live in your heart, and you will never be alone again for eternity.

If you are lost and reading this, please feel free to ask questions. There are many sweet Christians here who would love for you to know more about our Precious Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Forget about us being self-righteous, because we are not! ALL of our righteousness is in JESUS CHRIST alone, and none of us deserve HIS love. I'm praying that you don't wait another minute.

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 2:1 ASV  And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,
Ephesians 2:2 ASV  wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
Ephesians 2:3 ASV  among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:--
Ephesians 2:4 ASV  but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Ephesians 2:5 ASV  even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),
Ephesians 2:6 ASV  and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 2:7 ASV  that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 2:8 ASV  for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 ASV  not of works, that no man should glory.
Ephesians 2:10 ASV  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

[bluelake]

SelahJoy,

There is a movement today that is teaching this message. Some take it so far as to say that all will go to heaven for this reason.

The Bible is quite clear in its message of the Gospel and what we must do to be saved.

Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  

Luk 13:5  I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

1Jo 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I've heard of that teaching but I don't think that is the stand this preacher takes.  He is RC Schroll (spelling?).  Perhaps his overall message is that of the sovereignty of God, His works, not ours, that saves.  I would agree with that.

However, the Bible has passages both Old Testament and New in which people are exhorted to do something, be it confess by mouth, or sell all their stuff, or walk away from something and follow Jesus...

My point is that each person must make choices.  That doesn't mean that he deserves it anymore than the one who declines it.  For example, the two thieves on the cross.  They both deserved eternal separation from God,  but one accepted the free gift of God and the other one didn't.

I know it is difficult for works-based Christians to weed out the works mentality (I was raised in a works based religion with assigned days, and various rituals to observe regularly, and worst of all, if you sinned two minutes ago, you are now damned to hell--until ten minutes from now when you repent...which gets you salvation until you sin the next time...at which point you better repent real fast or you'll go to hell until you repent again...

That kind of theology is not Biblical.  I believe a closer-to-God's-heart way of rightly dividing His word is to understand that He desires all to come to Him.  He knows all will not.  Those who attain eternal relationship with God have a heart transplant.  They do something; they confess Jesus as God, Lord of all creation.  They hunger to know Him better which leads them to learn from the ancient writings we call the Bible.

When I heard RCS preach, I got a sense of awe and humility before the soveriegn God.  I appreciate that realization and want to meditate upon His word and receive all that God wants me to  know.

RCS pointed out that God chose Jacob, not Esau.  To me, that is an example of many other "why" and "why not" questions that we could ask our Lord.  But to me, this is more an example of the sovereignty of God in relation to one becoming this and another becoming that.  After all, we can't all be Esther or Joseph.  We can't all be called like Samson or Moses were, but we are all called to be His elected saved ones.  I believe even Pharoah could have been saved, if he had chosen it.  However, once he hardened his heart a number of times, God turned him over to his evil, carnal thinking.

Theology sure can get thick, can't it?  I prefer to remember my testimony.  I came to accept Jesus as God and left my future up to Him.  Because of the way I was raised, I figured if He felt heaven would be a better place without me, that was His perogotive.  However, I asked Him to let me get to be as close to Him as possible that day, which has turned into today, and right now.  Several years into my relationship with the Lord, a sister was praying for me and she felt Psalm 23 was for me.  She expounded upon it.  Later that same week, someone else prayed for me and she used the same text and said much the same thing!  I was touched, and the words, "...will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" stood out to me.  Tears fell down.  I didn't realize it up to that point, but apparently I had not known the assurance that He wanted me to live with Him forever in heaven.  But at that time, I for the first time, had a testimony of the fact that He invited me to the best family reunion ever!  I was overwhelmed, and happy to accept his invitation!

I don't know the literal theology that fits, but that's my testimony.  Now, I pray for others to know Him too.  By the way, THAT, I believe, is the most powerful testimony of Christianity in the world!  That Jesus can take humans who are innately selfish and make them look outward at others.  Further, that He can take offended souls and convince them to refuse to be offended, but to love others--even their enemies!  What an awesome religion!  

Thanks for reading, and if you know stuff that I should, I am so open to you, whether you are PR or whoeveryouare, please write to me.  Thank you,
selahjoy*

If you are talking about R.C. Sproul, he is a true Christian. in his books he quotes the same scriptures given here by Pastor Rogers.
What exactly are you saying that Dr. Sproul teaches?
Maybe we are not talking about the same person.

God bless,
bluelake

[bettyboop]

I have had some dealings with those who believe in predestination,election and Universal Salvation.Some of their beliefs are intertwined.Some believe that the elect are the only ones that will go to Heaven,and nothing can change that.They believe that since we don't know who those elect are,we need to live a righteous life.That isn't based on Scripture.
  The Universalists believe in predestination,at least some do,but that everyone will eventually be saved.The elect are chosen to avoid punishment after the rapture.They don't believe that a person can fall from grace,since it is predestined for all the world to be saved.
  All of those beliefs are based on interpretation of the Scriptures.Although the Bible speaks of the elect,it does not say that the elect are safe from falling.
2 Timothy 10 :"Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory".
  If all are to be saved,and there will be no eternal punishment,as the Bible claims,then not only is the Bible wrong,but Jesus died for nothing.We are told that we must believe in Christ and repent of our sins.Those who don't do that will not get to see Heaven.

[foundthelight]

Let us ignore the works based theologies such as what the Roman Catholic (RC) Church preaches.

That leaves us the two positions that have been presented in this thread on salvation.

The one is that The Lord's death on the cross was sufficient for all who will take the step of believing in him.  Note that this requires action on our part.  That we must make that decision and God is waiting for us with open arms.  It is all about our "Free Will".  We can accept or reject as we choose.  

This is a variation of what is called "Arminian" theology.  

As was pointed out earlier, we cannot take that step without hearing the Gospel;

Rom 10:14  But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

The other position is called "Reformed" theology.  In Reformed theology the question is asked how do we come to have faith?  Is our faith due to our Free Will decision or is it due to God's action?

Paul said;

Eph 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Is this gift of God that Paul speaks of God's grace or is it the gift of faith?

Let us look at what the Lord had to say;

Joh 6:44  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:47  Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Joh 6:64  But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)
Joh 6:65  And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

Who does the Father grant this belief to?

Paul said;

(Rom 8:28)  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

(Rom 8:29)  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

(Rom 8:30)  And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Eph 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9  not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them

The Reformed position is that if the decision to come to Christ is of our "free will" and not of God's will, then that decision is a Work of man in which they can boast.  "I chose Christ"  "I am saved because I stood before the church and said that I chose Christ."  These are, in the Reformed view, boasts.

The Reformed view is that we come to faith because of and by God's decision before time, His call and His gift of grace, not by some decision of our own.

And again we cannot respond to God's call without hearing the Gospel;

Rom 10:14  But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15  And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"


I praise God for the Good News!

[foundthelight]

The first view is, of course, correct. We are "predestinted" in that God does know a priori who will accept His Grace, and who won't. (Jeremiah 1:7). We still have the Free Will to chose or not on our own, but like Job, God knows how we will fare in the tribulations of this world.

God's desire is that ALL should be saved. That is part of our commision to preach the Gospel, to bring the Light of the World to others.

Can you please explain your view with scripture and in light of the following verses?  

Joh 6:44  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

(Rom 8:29)  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

(Rom 8:30)  And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Thanks!

[nChrist]

Hello FoundTheLight,

First, I hope that I've welcomed you to Christians Unite. Just in case I haven't, WELCOME!!

I would have a very simple and general reply to your question, but I would be interested in the ideas of many others with your question.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

This is really a beautiful and very simple thought when you think about it. HEARING becomes a loving and personal invitation from GOD. It is this invitation that draws the lost to Christ, and every Christian remembers this invitation as one of the high points of their life. It's an interesting thought that JESUS is also known as THE WORD. THE WORD is GOD and belongs to GOD, and we all know that THE WORD is more powerful than any two-edged sword. One could continue with the simple thoughts and say with certainly that GOD sends and transmits HIS WORD through willing servants. SO, it would be accurate to say that everything is initiated and begins with GOD.

Almighty God knew the exact moment you would hear THE WORD that drew you to CHRIST in eternity past, before the foundation of the world. HE also knew whether you would accept or reject HIS WORD. HIS foreknowledge was and is everything. Again, this does not hint or suggest that any person was programmed as a robot to reject CHRIST. Countless portions of precious Scripture clearly state that JESUS died for all, and none will be rejected. JESUS does not force anyone to reject HIM. If rejection is involved, it is the rejection of JESUS by the individual person, NOT the rejection of the person by JESUS.

To boil things down to the most simple form, there is only one unpardonable sin: rejection of JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour. Every Christian knows that ONLY the Blood of JESUS on the Cross makes this possible. JESUS was and is the LIGHT of the WORLD. JESUS came into the world to save all sinners, not just some, but many rejected HIM.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Titus 2:11-14 NASB  For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

2 Peter 3:9 NASB  The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Romans 10:16-17 NASB  However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

John 3:16-18 NASB  "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB  For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

[foundthelight]

Hello FoundTheLight,

First, I hope that I've welcomed you to Christians Unite. Just in case I haven't, WELCOME!!

I would have a very simple and general reply to your question, but I would be interested in the ideas of many others with your question.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

This is really a beautiful and very simple thought when you think about it. HEARING becomes a loving and personal invitation from GOD. It is this invitation that draws the lost to Christ, and every Christian remembers this invitation as one of the high points of their life. It's an interesting thought that JESUS is also known as THE WORD. THE WORD is GOD and belongs to GOD, and we all know that THE WORD is more powerful than any two-edged sword. One could continue with the simple thoughts and say with certainly that GOD sends and transmits HIS WORD through willing servants. SO, it would be accurate to say that everything is initiated and begins with GOD.

Almighty God knew the exact moment you would hear THE WORD that drew you to CHRIST in eternity past, before the foundation of the world. HE also knew whether you would accept or reject HIS WORD. HIS foreknowledge was and is everything. Again, this does not hint or suggest that any person was programmed as a robot to reject CHRIST. Countless portions of precious Scripture clearly state that JESUS died for all, and none will be rejected. JESUS does not force anyone to reject HIM. If rejection is involved, it is the rejection of JESUS by the individual person, NOT the rejection of the person by JESUS.

To boil things down to the most simple form, there is only one unpardonable sin: rejection of JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour. Every Christian knows that ONLY the Blood of JESUS on the Cross makes this possible. JESUS was and is the LIGHT of the WORLD. JESUS came into the world to save all sinners, not just some, but many rejected HIM.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Titus 2:11-14 NASB  For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

2 Peter 3:9 NASB  The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Romans 10:16-17 NASB  However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

John 3:16-18 NASB  "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB  For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Tom,

I thank you for your kind welcome to the board.  I pray that any discussions we have will lead to greater glory for God our Father.

I do not normally come to a board and respond as I have so early in my membership.  However, things have been said about Reformed theology which I cannot sit by and ignore.  I say this not out of anger, but rather, out of the understanding that many false and scurrilous things have been taught by those who have not studied the teachings of the reformers and that those things have been passed down from generation to generation as truth.  

I pray that, if my understanding is incorrect, the Holy Spirit will use this forum to show me my error.  The converse also applies.

There are a few things in your latest post that I would address.

1. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

You are correct in that we must hear the Gospel in order to come to faith.  That is why Satan is so active in our society to remove the word of God from our daily lives and substitute the things we see in our movies and on TV.

Rom 10:14-15
(14)  But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
(15)  And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"


2.   HEARING becomes a loving and personal invitation from GOD. It is this invitation that draws the lost to Christ, and every Christian remembers this invitation as one of the high points of their life.

You are correct in saying this.  The question is; how are we, as sinners, able to respond to this invitation?  As Paul says;

Rom 3:9-20
(9)  What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
(10)  as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
(11)  no one understands; no one seeks for God.
(12)  All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
(13)  "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips."
(14)  "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
(15)  "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
(16)  in their paths are ruin and misery,
(17)  and the way of peace they have not known.",
(18)  "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
(19)  Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.
(20)  For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.


If, as Paul says; "no one understands; no one seeks God", how can we in our "Free Will" make that decision to ask Christ into our lives as Lord and Savior?  What is it that makes understand our sin and reach out in repentance and faith?  

Again we turn to Paul;

Eph 2:4-5
(4)  But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
(5)  even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--

Eph 2:8
(  For by grace you have been saved through faith.  And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

We are saved through grace by faith.

"And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God"

This gift of Grace, this gift of faith, is given to us through the calling of the Holy Spirit.  

As Jesus said;

Joh 6:44
(44)  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

As Paul affirmed, although the words of God Himself do not need confirmation;

Rom 8:13-14
(13)  For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
(14)  For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Rom 8:29-30
(29)  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
(30)  And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

The Word of God plainly says that we are dead in our sin and cannot respond to the preaching of the Gospel unless we are called by the Holy Spirit.  

To say that we can respond without the call of the Holy Spirit is to say that we can be saved through our own strength and works, which is a lie.

Yours in Christ,

Willis

[nChrist]

Hello FoundTheLight,

I don't know if you are agreeing and putting things in different terms or disagreeing. The Romans 3 portion of Scripture becomes plain when you put it into context. The very general statements Paul made about the Law and sin are obviously answered by God's Grace and Gift for those who accept that Grace and Gift - JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour.

Paul makes many statements about those who remain mired in the Law and rejected JESUS. However, the focus of Paul's ministry is the cure - The CROSS and JESUS.

I haven't studied the Reformers or other groups - I study the Bible. JESUS died for ALL, but only those who accept HIM with faith will be saved. I hope you don't think that I hinted at Universal Salvation, as I would believe that to be a false doctrine. Only those who accept JESUS as LORD over their lives will be saved.

Before we accepted JESUS, we all shared the same condition, and that condition is specifically defined by Paul in numerous portions of Scripture. Depravity would be a good word for that condition, but JESUS is the cure. There is no irony that JESUS and the CROSS were the core and primary purpose for Paul's ministry. The CROSS also defined the difference between Law and Grace. In fact, Paul makes it plain that the CROSS was the most precious and important event of history for ALL mankind. GOD's Love, Grace, and GIFT does offer a rescue from the curse of sin and death for ALL who will receive it.

If you are saying that JESUS didn't die for ALL men, I would disagree completely. If you are saying that JESUS will reject some who are wanting HIM as LORD, I would disagree completely. Rejection is by a man's choice, NOT by God's Choice. Anything else would be false doctrine and against the teachings of the Holy Bible. The CROSS was for ALL, but only those who believe and have faith in JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour will be saved.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 4:20-21 NASB  yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

[foundthelight]

Tom,

I will state this as plainly as I can without the scripture references.

The Bible is the Inspired Word of God

The Psalmist and Paul said that we are incapable of choosing God on our own.

Jesus said that we cannot come come to Him unless the Father sends or draws us.

We cannot be saved without having our ears and hearts opened by the Father through the Holy Spirit, for this is what Jesus plainly meant when He said that the Father has to draw us.

Then, and only then, when we hear the Gospel we will respond to it and reach out for the promise of salvation.

This means that it is not through our own action of Will that we accept Christ, but rather through the opening of our ears by the Holy Spirit that we receive the free gift of Grace.

[nChrist]

Tom,

I will state this as plainly as I can without the scripture references.

The Bible is the Inspired Word of God

The Psalmist and Paul said that we are incapable of choosing God on our own.

Jesus said that we cannot come come to Him unless the Father sends or draws us.

We cannot be saved without having our ears and hearts opened by the Father through the Holy Spirit, for this is what Jesus plainly meant when He said that the Father has to draw us.

Then, and only then, when we hear the Gospel we will respond to it and reach out for the promise of salvation.

This means that it is not through our own action of Will that we accept Christ, but rather through the opening of our ears by the Holy Spirit that we receive the free gift of Grace.

Hello FoundTheLight,

 ???

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

That is the drawing/calling of God and the Holy Spirit.

I've already stated that everything begins with God. That should be obvious to all Christians.

Our decision is NOT forced - we either accept or reject.

The Holy Bible makes it clear that God wishes NONE would perish in their sins without JESUS. Almighty God could whisper and force every man to accept JESUS, but HE obviously doesn't. We either accept or reject God's Grace, Love, and GIFT.

If you are in disagreement, I don't understand what you are disagreeing with.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Psalms 18:30-31 NASB  As for God, His way is blameless; The word of the LORD is tried; He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him. For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi FoundTheLight,

Are you saying that God does not call all to His saving grace? The Bible is quite clear that God does call all and wants all to accept Him through Jesus Christ.

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

All men are called to Gods saving grace. It is but for us to accept His love for us or to reject it.