Does This Matter?

[Allinall]

I am talking about Bible versions.  I have had a run in with a few unofficial members of the KJV Only cult, and am asking the average Christian here, does it matter what version of the Holy Bible you use?  My Preacher and 99.9% of the congregation of my Church does not mind at all that I use the NAB.  

Which Bible Is The Right Bible?

The most popular bible on the market right now is the New International Version also known as the N.I.V. but is it the right bible for you? At BBC we believe, practice and teach the King James Bible is God’s word without error. We cannot say that about the NIV. Let me show you…

This is the KJV reading of Col.1:14

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

This is the NIV reading for the same verse.

"in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

Here is the KJV reading for Acts 8:37

"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Here is the same reading for the same verse.

(blank)

The space above is blank because the NIV doesn’t have Acts 8:37. This is only 2 of over 5,000 differences between the NIV and the King James Bible. The differences are "textual not translational" in nature. This simply means the text from which the NIV was taken is different than the text of the KJB. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t trust a Bible that leaves out the blood of Christ and omits entire verses. Would you? You may contact us for more information on "manuscript evidence".

By Pastor Doug Dodd s.b.g.

<))><

Unfortunately, it doesn't leave out the blood of Christ, as the blood of Christ is found in the Bible as a whole, and the necessity for that blood is found in the Bible as a whole.  The problem with holding to this philosophy is that doctrines are based upon one verse, and rise and fall upon one verse.  Fortunately, God doesn't rely upon one verse to teach us what we need to know.  He backs it up throughout His Word.  

[Evangelist]

Fortunately, God doesn't rely upon one verse to teach us what we need to know.  He backs it up throughout His Word.

ATA!!!!!!!!!!!_{a triple amen}

[ravenloche]

Greetings brotheren:

Has anyone noticed that the same questions keep poping up
in the church realm over the years?

I first heard this question back when I came to the L-rd in
1976.  It has continued to arise from time to time, and is
always answered with the same verses, arguments, and varied
hurt feelings.

Let me ask a question, if I may, in response.

Is the person reading the bible, no matter what the version, a
born again christian? If so, then is not our L-rd and savior
capable of leading and guiding that person into ALL truth?
Rom 8:1 there is therefore no condemnation to those who are
in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the
spirit.
rom 8:14 for as  many as are led by the spirit of G-d , they
are the sons of G-d.
James 1:5 if any man lack wisdom, let him ask of G-d who
giveth to all men liberally....

I own 9 different versions of the bible. I use all of them at one
point or another in my studies, but by the same token I only
preach, and teach out of the KJV.

I think we need to learn a lesson from Paul's teaching...to lay
aside our minor differences, and press on for the mark of the
prize of the High Calling in Christ Jesus. It is time to get out of
the milk, and seek the meat(deep things) of the word.

The thing that our father will ask us when we stand before
the throne is not what version of the word did you use, but
rather: "do you know my son Jesus"

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

  ravenloche  

[Brother Love]

Greetings brotheren:

Has anyone noticed that the same questions keep poping up
in the church realm over the years?

I first heard this question back when I came to the L-rd in
1976.  It has continued to arise from time to time, and is
always answered with the same verses, arguments, and varied
hurt feelings.

Let me ask a question, if I may, in response.

Is the person reading the bible, no matter what the version, a
born again christian? If so, then is not our L-rd and savior
capable of leading and guiding that person into ALL truth?
Rom 8:1 there is therefore no condemnation to those who are
in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the
spirit.
rom 8:14 for as  many as are led by the spirit of G-d , they
are the sons of G-d.
James 1:5 if any man lack wisdom, let him ask of G-d who
giveth to all men liberally....

I own 9 different versions of the bible. I use all of them at one
point or another in my studies, but by the same token I only
preach, and teach out of the KJV.

I think we need to learn a lesson from Paul's teaching...to lay
aside our minor differences, and press on for the mark of the
prize of the High Calling in Christ Jesus. It is time to get out of
the milk, and seek the meat(deep things) of the word.

The thing that our father will ask us when we stand before
the throne is not what version of the word did you use, but
rather: "do you know my son Jesus"

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

  ravenloche  

You get one Thumb Down

<))><

[ravenloche]

You get one Thumb Down  Posted by: Brother Love

would you be ever so kind as to expound upon the reasoning
behind your statement above? Some of us poor old country
pastor find it difficult to understand why purely expounding
upon the Word is given a  "thumb down"

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

raqvenloche

[Evangelist]

The thing that our father will ask us when we stand before
the throne is not what version of the word did you use, but
rather: "do you know my son Jesus"

From one country preacher to another......Amen.....say it again....preach on, brother.

[Sower]

I am talking about Bible versions.  I have had a run in with a few unofficial members of the KJV Only cult, and am asking the average Christian here, does it matter what version of the Holy Bible you use?  My Preacher and 99.9% of the congregation of my Church does not mind at all that I use the NAB.  

Yes it does matter, and no, those who uphold the KJV are not a cult but simply committed to holding fast the faithful Word.  In other words, modern bible versions are unfaithful to the true Hebrew and Greek texts, and have also made doctrinal changes through alterations throughout the Scriptures. I will not go into details, since you should search this matter out for yourself, and there's plenty of information out there.

The real "cultists" are those who will support the unfounded theories of Westcott and Hort through rain or shine, even when presented with the facts. In the end, it is no longer a matter of facts [which are deliberately ignored anyway] but of faith -- "The just shall live by faith" and those who maintain the authority of the Authorized Version believe that God not only preserved His word, but protected it through the meticulous care of the King James translators, who were all outstanding scholars in their own right -- probably more highly qualified than any modern scholars, and faithful to boot.

Even the Geneva Bible, which is a faithful Reformation Bible, and which was predominant before the KJV among English-speaking Christians, eventually gave place to the KJV.

For over 400 years God has blessed this faithful translation, and even after all the attacks heaped on the Textus Receptus and the KJV, this translation stands supreme as evidence of God's hand upon it.

Just because your church has no qualms bout using the NAB does not mean that the KJV is inferior. It simply means that your congregation has never been shown the truth behind modern translations. Even the NAB and the NKJV are seriously flawed. That's why the Trinitarian Bible Society publishes nothing but the KJV and corresponding translations in other languages. Contact them for more information.

[Sower]

For those interested in knowing why the Trinitarian Bible Scoiety takes such a strong position on the KJV, please go to the following link, which has lots of other sound teaching also.


http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/kjvdefenderstrinitarian.htm

[Allinall]

Greetings brotheren:

Has anyone noticed that the same questions keep poping up
in the church realm over the years?

I first heard this question back when I came to the L-rd in
1976.  It has continued to arise from time to time, and is
always answered with the same verses, arguments, and varied
hurt feelings.

Let me ask a question, if I may, in response.

Is the person reading the bible, no matter what the version, a
born again christian? If so, then is not our L-rd and savior
capable of leading and guiding that person into ALL truth?
Rom 8:1 there is therefore no condemnation to those who are
in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the
spirit.
rom 8:14 for as  many as are led by the spirit of G-d , they
are the sons of G-d.
James 1:5 if any man lack wisdom, let him ask of G-d who
giveth to all men liberally....

I own 9 different versions of the bible. I use all of them at one
point or another in my studies, but by the same token I only
preach, and teach out of the KJV.

I think we need to learn a lesson from Paul's teaching...to lay
aside our minor differences, and press on for the mark of the
prize of the High Calling in Christ Jesus. It is time to get out of
the milk, and seek the meat(deep things) of the word.

The thing that our father will ask us when we stand before
the throne is not what version of the word did you use, but
rather: "do you know my son Jesus"

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

  ravenloche  

Amen!

[BFWard]

I thank you all for your advise once again.  Follow up question:

What makes you think the compilers of the KJV were any more accurate in 1611 using the TR than the other scholars, using even older manuscripts for their translations?

[Allinall]

Hi BFWard: welcome to the forums.

I can only give you my opinion.

To a certain extent, the version or translation used is moderately important, simply because there are a number of versions that have been put out that drastically alter the meanings of some words from the original texts and understandings. A few of them have even gone so far as to delete certain passages.

Even within the KJV bunch, there is argument over which particular edition is used, or which TR (Textus Receptus) was the basis for translation.

Keep this always in mind, since none of the many versions phrase it differently. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will "lead you into all truth". John later writes that "you have an unction (speaking of the Holy Spirit)", and that "you have no need that any many should teach you". These passages certainly indicate that when we approach the Word of God with a heart set toward learning from Him, He will teach and show to us what He wants. If there is a question about a certain phrase, or word, He is more than capable of producing a check in our hearts and minds about it, with a little whispered "check that out".

Personally, I like the language of the KJV...it's much less gutteral than some of the newer versions, but I also know that some of the words have been "mis-translated" to a certain degree. Simply, in the 1600's, the translators operated from a knowledge of classical Greek, but it was not until the 1900's that it became clear that the originals were written in Koine, or Common Greek....and there is a difference between the two in some important areas.

I have a Parallel, which gives four translations side-by-side, plus a Greek-English Interlinear based on the Stephanus TR. Sometimes it's helpful.

Happy reading!!

I've reposted this post by Evangelist because it addresses this issue so well.  Folks, I've seen lives destroyed by this issue.  And I'm not talking about those who follow other versions.  I've sat in Theology classes where the topic of every class somehow revolved around the veracity of the KJV.  I've seen Greek teachers teach one thing (the inaccuracy of transliteration) correctly, only to change that (baptise is an accurate transliteration of baptizo) teaching to support their translational preferrence.  I've witnessed good men of God, desiring to do the ministries that God called them to (perfecting the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ), exchange that desire for a hunger to attack the versions issue in the name of the KJV.  I've seen these men throw the NIV to the floor in services designed to perfect, teach, and edify the believer, and call it trash.  I've seen "churches" split.  I've seen bitterness swell to the point of being visible to all, and men's former testimonies being tarnished even in the eyes of those who hold the same translational philosophies.  All this, from the KJV side.

Not being one to leave anyone out, I've seen the other side insult the KJVonlyers.  I've heard them refer to them as illiterates, who can't spell koine let alone read it.  I've seen them claim superior training, knowledge, and understanding.  I've heard them mock their brothers in Christ for their convictions.  All this, from the other side.

At the heart of it all lies pride.  Those who refuse to accept change, whether biblical or no, stand strong in their pride of being right for Jesus.  Subsequently excusing every behavior that proceeds from that heart as righteous indignation.  Even accepting violence in the body as a means of expressing such indignation.  It's ok...afterall.

Those who aren't willing to deal biblically with the weaker brother mock them, call them names, walk out on them during conversations, separate, and blame them for the problem to begin with.  Subsequently excusing every behavior that proceeds from that heart as knowledge of the truth.  It's ok, afterall, to argue with a fool...isn't it?  (Not calling anyone here a fool, nor those who hold to the KJV only philosophy as fools.  Trying to point out a biblical truth)

Hence I reposted Evangelist's original post.  Good stuff, that works well in this circumstance.  God is either in control or He's not.  I for one believe He is.  And if He is, then He is the One conforming us into the image of His Son...not us, not our philosophies, not our convictions and not our sinful applications of perceived truth garnered from the fleshly desire to be right.

Great post again there Evangelist!  

[Sower]

I thank you all for your advise once again.  Follow up question:

What makes you think the compilers of the KJV were any more accurate in 1611 using the TR than the other scholars, using even older manuscripts for their translations?

Did you read about why the Trinitarian Bible Society took it's stand on the KJV? That would have answered your question.  Furthermore, they have published numerous well-researched papers explaining in detail the problems with modern versions. You can request copies and study these for yourself. You will then have the answer.

As to "older manuscripts", that is where the deception begins. Normally, older would be closer to the originals and therefore better. But in this case older means those which were the most corrupt, therefore left unused, and one of them [Aleph]was found in a wastebasket ready to be burned!  Why would monks throw a manuscript in a wastebasket unless they considered it worthless? So Codex B and it's allies were the most corrupt manuscripts to be discovered, yet, through a process of "smoke and mirrors" eleveated above all the others.

[MalkyEL]

Thought I would jump in and swim in the pool  

Perhaps the most important factor in choosing a version or translation of choice, needs to be honest research into the base text used.

From my understanding, there are two sources - Alexandrian [Egyptian] of which there were 3 manuscripts found - one of which was thrown in the trash and retrieved.  It is from these manuscripts that the Deity of Jesus is left questionable.

The other source are the Byzantine [Antioch] of which there are approx 5000.  Although there are some differences between them, the Deity of Jesus stands solid.  imho, I would prefer to base my preference on these manuscripts.

The KJV is based on the Byzantine TR [Textus receptus/recieved texts].  So I would definitely favor translations that are also based on the Byzantine.

The problem with some of the new translations like the NIV, NKJV [not based on the KJV] for instance, is that they use the Alexandrian scripts and mixed with the Byzantine, with an agenda to leave room for denial of Jesus Deity, and to water down some of the texts which take a hard line for specific sins.  Missing verses and phrases like what are left out of the NIV dull it, and make it less than what God intended.  As He said in Rev 22:

18 For I testify together with everyone hearing the Words of the prophecy of this Book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add upon him the plagues having been written in this Book.
19 And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and of the things having been written in this Book.


I realize that this is a simplistic view.  I am not a scholar nor a linguistic.  I just learn what I can and apply it to find the best sword I can find.

As a good friend of mine once said:  "Once again, I was taught early on in the natural world that a good choice of weaponry is most important. Some are now entering the spiritual battlefield carrying a dull, rusty, soup spoon - while I choose to carry a Two-Edged Sword which was forged form the Masoretic Text and the Byzantine Texts.  Life is about choices."

There are some good new versions based on the Byzantine Texts that are "new" for today.  Young's and Jay P Green's.
Young's is done in the same type of English that the KJV is.

Green's Literal is done in modern English and is a word for word translation. He also did a Modern King James Version which is similar to the KJV following verse by verse, simply making it easier to read, without the early English thees and thous and correcting some of the wordage.

Literal online link:  litvonline.com
MKJV  online link:  mkjvonline.com

It would be worth your time to check them out - they are comparable to the KJV.  Green also has a set of Interlinear Bibles - in which is his translation, Hebrew [OT - Masoretic] and Greek [NT - TR], including the KJV for comparison - it is a 4 volume set, but the NT can be purchased separately.

Shalom, MalkyEL  

[Shammu]

I am talking about Bible versions.

I myself use a Hebrew, Greek, and English Bible. The English part of the trio is in KJV. I have no problem understanding the wording.

[Brother Love]

Hi BFWard: welcome to the forums.

I can only give you my opinion.

To a certain extent, the version or translation used is moderately important, simply because there are a number of versions that have been put out that drastically alter the meanings of some words from the original texts and understandings. A few of them have even gone so far as to delete certain passages.

Even within the KJV bunch, there is argument over which particular edition is used, or which TR (Textus Receptus) was the basis for translation.

Keep this always in mind, since none of the many versions phrase it differently. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will "lead you into all truth". John later writes that "you have an unction (speaking of the Holy Spirit)", and that "you have no need that any many should teach you". These passages certainly indicate that when we approach the Word of God with a heart set toward learning from Him, He will teach and show to us what He wants. If there is a question about a certain phrase, or word, He is more than capable of producing a check in our hearts and minds about it, with a little whispered "check that out".

Personally, I like the language of the KJV...it's much less gutteral than some of the newer versions, but I also know that some of the words have been "mis-translated" to a certain degree. Simply, in the 1600's, the translators operated from a knowledge of classical Greek, but it was not until the 1900's that it became clear that the originals were written in Koine, or Common Greek....and there is a difference between the two in some important areas.

I have a Parallel, which gives four translations side-by-side, plus a Greek-English Interlinear based on the Stephanus TR. Sometimes it's helpful.

Happy reading!!

I've reposted this post by Evangelist because it addresses this issue so well.  Folks, I've seen lives destroyed by this issue.  And I'm not talking about those who follow other versions.  I've sat in Theology classes where the topic of every class somehow revolved around the veracity of the KJV.  I've seen Greek teachers teach one thing (the inaccuracy of transliteration) correctly, only to change that (baptise is an accurate transliteration of baptizo) teaching to support their translational preferrence.  I've witnessed good men of God, desiring to do the ministries that God called them to (perfecting the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ), exchange that desire for a hunger to attack the versions issue in the name of the KJV.  I've seen these men throw the NIV to the floor in services designed to perfect, teach, and edify the believer, and call it trash.  I've seen "churches" split.  I've seen bitterness swell to the point of being visible to all, and men's former testimonies being tarnished even in the eyes of those who hold the same translational philosophies.  All this, from the KJV side.

Not being one to leave anyone out, I've seen the other side insult the KJVonlyers.  I've heard them refer to them as illiterates, who can't spell koine let alone read it.  I've seen them claim superior training, knowledge, and understanding.  I've heard them mock their brothers in Christ for their convictions.  All this, from the other side.

At the heart of it all lies pride.  Those who refuse to accept change, whether biblical or no, stand strong in their pride of being right for Jesus.  Subsequently excusing every behavior that proceeds from that heart as righteous indignation.  Even accepting violence in the body as a means of expressing such indignation.  It's ok...afterall.

Those who aren't willing to deal biblically with the weaker brother mock them, call them names, walk out on them during conversations, separate, and blame them for the problem to begin with.  Subsequently excusing every behavior that proceeds from that heart as knowledge of the truth.  It's ok, afterall, to argue with a fool...isn't it?  (Not calling anyone here a fool, nor those who hold to the KJV only philosophy as fools.  Trying to point out a biblical truth)

Hence I reposted Evangelist's original post.  Good stuff, that works well in this circumstance.  God is either in control or He's not.  I for one believe He is.  And if He is, then He is the One conforming us into the image of His Son...not us, not our philosophies, not our convictions and not our sinful applications of perceived truth garnered from the fleshly desire to be right.

Great post again there Evangelist!  

You get "TWO" Thumbs Down.

<))><