Adam was not deceived...

[smartinez1984]

I'm confused about something (again... )

I was reading the book of 1 Timothy last night and came across the verses:

For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression (1 Timothy 2:13,14).

What troubles me is the fact that Adam WAS deceived, albeit by Eve, but deceived nonetheless. Wasn't he?

-Samson

[orthodox1234]

When you read that passage take it into context he was probable mentioning sin and how it first came into the world Eve was the first to be deceived and Adam next but because Adam represented all of humanity sin was attributed to Adam. It was probably referring to who was first deceived because its probably talking about sin.

[Katherine]

The context is that because Eve was deceived and Adam just followed her, we shouldn't allow women (who are so easily deceived proven by the example of Eve) to lead men (astray) in the church.

[Ralph]

  Smartinez: I believe Paul's statement that
adam was not deceived means that Adam knew full well what was at stake when he took the fruit. Eve was beguiled by satan and ignorant of what was at stake. We fell in Adam rather than Eve because Adam (not Eve) was our federal head, a term of legal import which is in force because it is an expression of God's attrribute of justice. Therefore, we fell from God because of Adam's sin BUT BUT! BUT! The Lord Jesus Christ is the second Adam, the second federal head
(He is the head of the church, remember), As Adam was in the world with those in him, his children, so Christ came into the world, having in Himself those "Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world." For that reason, Christ is termed the
"Everlasting Father" in Isaiah chapter nine. Unlike Adam, however, Christ worked righteousness for those in Him-called
His seed in Isaiah 53-and brought life to ALL THOSE CHOSEN IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. For all those imn him, Adam brought death. Foe all those in Him, Christ brought life. As surely as his children died in Adam, even so,ALL in Christ live because of His righteousness.
Remember Jesus saying to John the Baptist, "suffer it to be so now, for thus it becomes US (caps mine) to fulfill all righteousness"? Well, Smartinez, that righteousness which He
fulfilled is the same righteousness inwhich those who are "accepted in the beloved" shall stand before Him for judgment on that great day. In Him we are accepted. Let us therefore cast ALL or hope on Him alone. As the Bible says, He will sustain us. We know already that the righteousness which we have in Him is sufficient, because on the basis of it, Christ has been raised from death, and received into the heavens. Praise ye the Lord!

[Saved_4ever]

Yes that's right Adam knew full well what would happen so he was not decieved.  Only correction at the moment is Jeus is not the second Adam but the Last Adam.

[Petro]

Adam was not deceived because God gave him this commandment;

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Gen 2:17


So if Adfam was not deceived, then he trangressed the commandment knowingly and willingly.

The result is stated in Romans 5;

12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (refering to Jesus) was made a life giving spirit.  1 Cor 15:45


Petro

[smartinez1984]

Wasn't that same commandment given to Eve? She knew about it:

Genesis-
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

Then she, TOO, transgressed willingly, didn't she? They were either both deceived (Eve by the serpent, Adam by Eve) or they both transgressed knowingly and willingly, no?

Paul seems to indicate a lesser role for the female based on the fact that Adam was not deceived but he was, wasn't he? If not, then neither was Eve, was she?

I'm sincerely trying to figure this one out...

-Samson

[Petro]

posted by smatinez as reply #6, Was Not Adam decieved?

Wasn't that same commandment given to Eve? She knew about it:

The nscripture is silent, in that there is nothingm said about God, explicitly giving her the same command.  If the scriopture is true, concerning Adam being her head ( 1 Cor 11:3)

Genesis-
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

It appears to me Adam, never conveyed to her, exactly what God had commanded him not to do, concerning the fruit of  the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.  his is a common thing, husbands fail to lead their wives and families, in spiritual matters.

Then she, TOO, transgressed willingly, didn't she? They were either both deceived (Eve by the serpent, Adam by Eve) or they both transgressed knowingly and willingly, no?

If she was deceived, and the scripture seems to confirm this, then her sin is one of ignorance.

Paul seems to indicate a lesser role for the female based on the fact that Adam was not deceived but he was, wasn't he? If not, then neither was Eve, was she?

I'm sincerely trying to figure this one out...

-Samson

Adam was judged also, for "hearkening unto the voice of his wife, instead of God's. It was a willing disobedience to the command of God.

The woman was judged at Gen 3:16, after claiming to have been beguiled by the serpent.

So, it isn't Paul who "indicated a lesser role" for the woman, he simply makes the point, the man was not decived while the woman was.

Petro

[ollie]

Adam was not deceived because God gave him this commandment;

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Gen 2:17


So if Adfam was not deceived, then he trangressed the commandment knowingly and willingly.

The result is stated in Romans 5;

12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (refering to Jesus) was made a life giving spirit.  1 Cor 15:45


Petro

Very true.

There was no deception, but transgression. Adam knew full well what God had commanded and the consequences but he chose to disobey. And sin entered the world.

The verse quoted says Eve was the one deceived, Then she transgressed.
The deception:?
 
" Genesis 3:4.  And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
 5.  For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
 6.  And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

[ollie]

posted by smatinez as reply #6, Was Not Adam decieved?

Wasn't that same commandment given to Eve? She knew about it:

The nscripture is silent, in that there is nothingm said about God, explicitly giving her the same command.  If the scriopture is true, concerning Adam being her head ( 1 Cor 11:3)

Genesis-
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

It appears to me Adam, never conveyed to her, exactly what God had commanded him not to do, concerning the fruit of  the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.  his is a common thing, husbands fail to lead their wives and families, in spiritual matters.

Then she, TOO, transgressed willingly, didn't she? They were either both deceived (Eve by the serpent, Adam by Eve) or they both transgressed knowingly and willingly, no?

If she was deceived, and the scripture seems to confirm this, then her sin is one of ignorance.

Paul seems to indicate a lesser role for the female based on the fact that Adam was not deceived but he was, wasn't he? If not, then neither was Eve, was she?

I'm sincerely trying to figure this one out...

-Samson

Adam was judged also, for "hearkening unto the voice of his wife, instead of God's. It was a willing disobedience to the command of God.

The woman was judged at Gen 3:16, after claiming to have been beguiled by the serpent.

So, it isn't Paul who "indicated a lesser role" for the woman, he simply makes the point, the man was not decived while the woman was.

Petro

Genesis 3:1.  Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
 2.  And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
 3.  But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

[faithful one]

James 1:14-15            But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.(express the intensity with which desire lures an individual) Then,when desire has conceived,(suggests the image of a persons will bending toward and finally seizing the evil)it gives birth to sin,and sin,when full grown(suggests bringing a goal to completion...that sin has reached its maturity)brings forth death.

[Petro]

Adam was not deceived because God gave him this commandment;

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Gen 2:17


So if Adfam was not deceived, then he trangressed the commandment knowingly and willingly.

The result is stated in Romans 5;

12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (refering to Jesus) was made a life giving spirit.  1 Cor 15:45


Petro

Very true.

There was no deception, but transgression. Adam knew full well what God had commanded and the consequences but he chose to disobey. And sin entered the world.

ollie,

Right, but don't forget;

....sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Jesus died for all who are dead in sin and tresspass, it is written;

..............if one died for all, then were all dead: 2 Cor 5:14; there are no special deals, where some are not dead
who die, and are saved anyway.

ALL WHOM THE SAVIOR DIED FOR WERE DEAD IN SIN AND TRESSPASS this includes Adam and Eve..

Blessings,
Petro

[Petro]

Gen 3
3.  But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

There are many instances where men and women, attribute things said by God.

Which contradict the very teaching of God himself, and;

hen there are those who give much weight to theses erroneous quotes;

This is the case herein.

Jesus said:

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The commandment not to eat of the fruit was given to Adam, the scripture is silent concerning the addition to the commandment of "neither shall you touch it" addedd by Eve as to what God said,

God asked Adam, imediately after Adam confessed;

I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. (vs 10)

Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?  (vs 11)

It is clear from the passage, that the transgression of the command was in the act of eating not touching;

The serpent spoke to the heart of the matter, using the womans confused response, by stating;

Ye shall not surely die:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (vs 4-5)

Now note her response to the serpents words;

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Touching the fruit, was not commanded at all, she did not hestitate to touch it, from what this passage of scripture tells us, she saw, took and did eat.

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

God never spoke the words Eve says he did, this is why the scriptures say she was deceived.

For this reason women are to remain silent and learn in silence with all subjection, a woman is not to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

It is written a women is to keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Cor 15:34-35)

I don't pretend to understand all of this, but it is enough for me, that it is written for my own admonishment.

What is evident and crystal clear, is that death did not occur because of "the touching of the fruit" but "the eating of it".

Blessings,

Petro

[Petro]

To make it perfectly clear, the act of eating the fruit, was rebellion against God, and this is the root of  all sin of it is called disobedience.

God commands every man everywhere to repent.

Only those who desire to repent, are  drawen (taught) by God,  and ever come to repentance, and receive the faith required to be saved.

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:30-31)

Samuel the prophet said to King Saul;

Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.  (1 Sam 15:22-23)

Even if God would have commanded not to touch the fruit, they both touched it, and would have been in transgression, but we know that the external appesarance, is not what corrupts a person, but the thoughts and evil come from within.

To quote Jesus;

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
(Mat 15:17-19)


It begins and ends as, faithful one has stated according to James 1:14-5.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[Mr. 5020]

Yes that's right Adam knew full well what would happen so he was not decieved.  Only correction at the moment is Jeus is not the second Adam but the Last Adam.

It's my first post so I'll try to tread lightly...test the waters, if you will.  Since the Bible is full of "types," as they are called, you have to take them into consideration.  Jesus Christ is called "the last Adam."  Jesus gave His life for His bride, the Church.  If Adam was not deceived (which he wasn't, if you believe the Bible literally), you can follow the type by theorizing that Adam gave his life for Eve, after she was deceived, thus lost her own life.