Bible fundamentalism yay or nay?

[DARRELX]

There have been some issues raised about liberalism Christians, we all have met them, they question things like did Christ really walk on water and if he did maybe there was a sandbar just under his feet, absurd notions like that.
I think that everybody should make their view on the Bible clear,
Do you believe that the Bible is fully the word off God ( As I do) and be taken as such(not discounting the fact that some background knowledge off the area, or situation can help us understand some parts properly) or do you believe that it is an out dated writing and is just an interesting read at best or whatever?
When I know where everybody stands than it will help me in my approach to you in debate as I think it will help everybody.
I am a Conservative Christian Bible fundamentalist and you can quote me on that.
What are you?

[felix102]

God be with you. Yes, we can come to the truth through this. Maybe you have in mind what I have in mind.

The bible is the word of God. I believe this fully. I know what you are talking about. It is true that these people do not have much faith in things that defy current science. This is utterly foolish for they are relying on man's wisdom. As we know, science's foundation is never solid; it is always changing and normally progressing. This fact alone makes any person foolish to believe that science is absolute. But we know that this is foolishness because "man's wisdom is foolishness to God." There is a problem I see however. There is no conservative or liberal perspective; there is only one: the Truth. May this be revealed...

What do you make of the following...
Mana was food given to Israel by God. It rained from the sky.

Man has found that there is a type of seed from a tree that when eaten, tastes sweet like honey. Maybe this was the mana that the Israelites ate. And how the mana could have fallen from the sky was that there was a wind that carried the seeds from the trees into the air.



Jonah was found 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of a fish.

There have been reports of man being swallowed by fish and getting out alive. One instance was a man who fell overboard and was swallowed by a whale. The captain of the ship ordered a cannon to be fired at the whale. When the whale was hit it vomited out the man. So it is possible for man to be in a fish's belly and come out alive.

Jesus said, "No miraculous sign will be given to this wicked generation but the sign of Jonah"

[felix102]

Matthew 17:27
“Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him. “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

Let's look at the underlined part and ask yourself was it really a fish or is this figurative?

[cris]

Matthew 17:27
“Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him. “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

Let's look at the underlined part and ask yourself was it really a fish or is this figurative?

Every Jew who was 20 years old was required to pay a temple tax of two drachmas each year helping to support the temple.  This was a religious tax and not a state tax. Jesus explained that not only was He (the King) exempt from this tax, but His disciples were also.  Peter overlooked this fact even though he knew Jesus was a law abiding citizen.  Jesus told them that the "King" does not tax His own family.  Therefore, as King, God would not require Jesus or His desciples to pay the temple tax.  Jesus didn't pay the temple tax because it was an obligation but instead He paid it because Peter incorrectly assumed Jesus owed it.  To keep from offending the temple tax collectors, Jesus performed a miracle to provide the money for the tax.  Through this miracle the tax collectors could be shown that Jesus was no ordinary man, and perhaps they would seek to learn more about Him.

 

[felix102]

Matthew 17:27
“Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him. “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

Let's look at the underlined part and ask yourself was it really a fish or is this figurative?

Every Jew who was 20 years old was required to pay a temple tax of two drachmas each year helping to support the temple.  This was a religious tax and not a state tax. Jesus explained that not only was He (the King) exempt from this tax, but His disciples were also.  Peter overlooked this fact even though he knew Jesus was a law abiding citizen.  Jesus told them that the "King" does not tax His own family.  Therefore, as King, God would not require Jesus or His desciples to pay the temple tax.  Jesus didn't pay the temple tax because it was an obligation but instead He paid it because Peter incorrectly assumed Jesus owed it.  To keep from offending the temple tax collectors, Jesus performed a miracle to provide the money for the tax.  Through this miracle the tax collectors could be shown that Jesus was no ordinary man, and perhaps they would seek to learn more about Him.

 

thanks for replying.

I would like to know though, how you know this is true:

"Jesus performed a miracle to provide the money for the tax.  Through this miracle the tax collectors could be shown that Jesus was no ordinary man, and perhaps they would seek to learn more about Him."

[DARRELX]

"Silver, a Fundamental, Conservative Christian who trusts every word of God"
I don't doubt it-lol!
They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and so these liberalist may have the utmost off good intentions but sadly they fear man more than God or do not have the faith to see the all-powerful ever-present god off heaven and earth.
A very Liberalist church nearby has a large message board on it, once it said YOU CAN BE TOO HEAVENLY MINDED TO BE ANY EARTHLY GOOD, the Audacity off these people (They allow gay couples to take communion with much pride I might add) These people are much too earthly minded to be any heavenly good.
The Bible begins with, In the beginning god created the heavens and the earth if you can believe that then you will know that nothing is to hard for the Lord. I do not need natural explanations Felix, I just stand in aw off Gods power off which you will witness one day.
So Felix are you a Liberal Christian?
And I believe that God has the power to manipulate the world in which he created, when God says that you will get a coin in the first fist you catch then what fool would doubt him?
With the miracle off Jonah Jesus was obviously talking about his death and resurrection which is surely a sign to this generation now and is the only one that saves.
God Bless.
Anyone ells?


 

[felix102]

A brief but brilliant analysis of Liberal Christianity:

Liberal Christians have a non-literal view of scripture. They believe since the Old Testament Law was fulfilled in Jesus, there is no longer a need for the O.T. and it’s ancient wisdom, and consequently it is nullified.  So in other words, they believe that God’s word about a certain subject from the O.T. doesn’t apply to the same subject today because we live in an age of grace. They also believe that you cannot use any verse from the New Testament to apply to anything other than the original context in which it was written.

Conservative Christians, such as myself, are content to answer religious questions by appealing to the absolute authority of Scripture. Liberal Christians, on the other hand, find such an approach to be flawed. They see the Bible as a witness to revelation, or ‘generally’ inspired, rather than completely inspired in all its parts. Indeed, liberal Christians are quick to point out that the falleness and imperfection of its human authors gives the Bible an imperfect quality and authority.  Sad but so very true, and this is why I find Liberal Christianity thoroughly disgusting .

Liberals view Scripture through a critical lens, and are not afraid to challenge traditional assumptions and interpretations. They rely heavily on higher criticism of the Bible, which looks into the origin and composition of the biblical texts. Modern philosophical, biological, and cosmological theories also shape the way liberals interpret Scripture. Traditional Christian doctrines, such as the Virgin Birth, the Atonement, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and the Resurrection, are sometimes given new interpretations by Liberals.

For many Liberal Christians, social justice is a central concern, and the transformation of society, rather than that of the individual, is more typically stressed. Equality for racial minorities, women, homosexuals, and the economically disadvantaged is seen as an essential part of the Gospel message. A concern for the environment, and other typically liberal social issues, also find a great deal of support among Liberal Christians.

Liberal Christians support inclusivity in church membership, with no rules excluding people on account of their supposed living of a "sinful lifestyle" or being "unrepentant sinners" -- recognizing that we all have sins to which we ourselves are blind.  A Liberal Christian would have no problem in sharing the Lord’s Supper with an unbeliever.

Liberal Christians, while not denying Conservative efforts to do the right thing, tend to look on all issues from a perspective of compassion, mercy, and affirmation of human dignity, as opposed to a focus on sinfulness and moral integrity.  In other words, they dance around the subject that a person is a sinner and needs forgiveness before the Lord will actually bless them.  They say, “turn to God, turn to God!!!” without telling them that they need to get saved!!

Be blessed

Silver, a Fundamental, Conservative Christian who trusts every word of God

That was very good Silver. The Scriptures are God-breathed. Absolutely every word is important.

I must give a warning though. Do not let a perspective (namely liberal or fundamental view) overshadow the Truth. I know you must be asking...how can a fundamental view overshadow the Truth as it takes the word of God as it is. I tell you, both these stances are stances of the mind not the Spirit.

2 cor 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty.


Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Now what is the soul? and why would the word of God divide the soul and spirit?

[felix102]

"Silver, a Fundamental, Conservative Christian who trusts every word of God"
I don't doubt it-lol!
They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and so these liberalist may have the utmost off good intentions but sadly they fear man more than God or do not have the faith to see the all-powerful ever-present god off heaven and earth.
A very Liberalist church nearby has a large message board on it, once it said YOU CAN BE TOO HEAVENLY MINDED TO BE ANY EARTHLY GOOD, the Audacity off these people (They allow gay couples to take communion with much pride I might add) These people are much too earthly minded to be any heavenly good.
The Bible begins with, In the beginning god created the heavens and the earth if you can believe that then you will know that nothing is to hard for the Lord. I do not need natural explanations Felix, I just stand in aw off Gods power off which you will witness one day.
So Felix are you a Liberal Christian?
And I believe that God has the power to manipulate the world in which he created, when God says that you will get a coin in the first fist you catch then what fool would doubt him?
With the miracle off Jonah Jesus was obviously talking about his death and resurrection which is surely a sign to this generation now and is the only one that saves.
God Bless.
Anyone ells?

Excellent. I am not a Liberal Christian. I have a desire to know God's truth. Whatever you want to call that.

if you can believe that then you will know that nothing is to hard for the Lord.

Amen. This is true. The Lord is the creator of ALL things. These are the laws of nature and physics (laws governing the universe) and everything within it.

I do not need natural explanations Felix, I just stand in aw off Gods power off which you will witness one day.

I know you do not need natural explanations however nature is what God created right? And if we understand that then we will understand how God did it. Not necessary but very revealing and joyful when we know it.

I have seen many miracles. Many things happen in my life that to an outsider would JUST say, "Oh, well that's natural...it happens all the time" whereas I say "Oh thank you Lord! For you know my needs and you have provided!". I know and God knows that I know his power and might.

And I believe that God has the power to manipulate the world in which he created

exactly

when God says that you will get a coin in the first fist you catch then what fool would doubt him?

Jesus said he would speak in parables. There are many hidden things of whom those "who have ears let him hear". I have no doubt of God. Let me challenge you with this verse:

Matthew 4:19
And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."

With the miracle off Jonah Jesus was obviously talking about his death and resurrection which is surely a sign to this generation now and is the only one that saves.

Obviously? Though it may seem. Let me again challenge your thinking:


matt 12:38-40
But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;

   
for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Yes, it seems as such because of the transition. "For Just". But what if it is not. Read these verses as seperate entities and think about the following...

What is the miracle that we see that saves us? Is it really Jesus's time spent in the heart of earth? In hades?
There is a greater miracle still. The turning of the hearts of people to the Lord. Is this not what we see today? A person who is saved, we see the miracle in them from how they have changed. The light of God shines in them. This is a great sign.

Let's look at Jonah. What was so miraculous during that time? The people turned from their evil ways... "But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence" (jonah 3:

Can this not be a sign for an evil and adulterous generation? Pharisees and Saducess seeing that heathens and gentiles turning to the Lord?

Can this be so?

[DARRELX]

I dont know exactly where your coming from but if people believe in the death and resurrection off Christ, understands what it means in regards to them they can be saved.
Thats the only way hearts can be turned, is that what you are trying to say, if so I agree, or are you talking in parables-lol

God Bless

[felix102]

I dont know exactly where your coming from but if people believe in the death and resurrection off Christ, understands what it means in regards to them they can be saved.
Thats the only way hearts can be turned, is that what you are trying to say, if so I agree, or are you talking in parables-lol

God Bless

hmm, I wouldnt say I'm speaking in parables  ...just asking questions to jog your mind and utlimately your Spirit: your inner most being.

Anyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved. Those who believe in Him are saved. When they do that, they have turned their hearts to God because they have obeyed God's will: "My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life (john 6:40)" We look away from our sins and the things of the world, and look to our Lord Jesus.

I was just talking about a problem between Liberal and Fundamental Christians. For the most part they are just labels but I have to say that the only way to find Truth is not through some perspective of the mind but it is by the Spirit of Truth...
Jesus told us, "I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever- the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be IN you." (jOHN14:17)

"But when he, the Spirit of Truth, comes, he will guide you into ALL truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." (john 16:13)

So how can I know this Spirit of Truth? It is not something I can see. The body can sense a body. A mind can sense a mind. But only a spirit can sense the Spirit. You spirit is your inner most being. To invite in the Spirit you have to have the desire deep down inside. When you turn your heart to the Lord and desire to be filled by Him, you will receive Him.

I dont want to get into the semantics of what Liberalism and Fundamentalism mean but there really is only one thing. The Truth. "For you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"



"ASK and it will be given to you; SEEK and you will find; KNOCK and the door will be opened to you." (matt 7:7)

There are many things that God wants to give you. There are many things that the Holy Spirit wants to show you. And there is a kingdom that Jesus Christ wants you to come into.

[DARRELX]

Yeah and Jesus said thy word is truth and the psalmist said that the law is spiritual.
The holy spirit reveals himself through the truth off Gods word not through feeling if thats what you are into? Remember the devil is a spirit to and he can also quote scripture he did it when he tried to tempt Christ, the audacity of him.
Spiritual growth comes from knowledge in his word, the Holy Scriptures and not just knowledge but obedience, that is true spiritual growth, you can have your experiences I wasnt born again yesterday!

[felix102]

Yeah and Jesus said thy word is truth and the psalmist said that the law is spiritual.
The holy spirit reveals himself through the truth off Gods word not through feeling if thats what you are into? Remember the devil is a spirit to and he can also quote scripture he did it when he tried to tempt Christ, the audacity of him.
Spiritual growth comes from knowledge in his word, the Holy Scriptures and not just knowledge but obedience, that is true spiritual growth, you can have your experiences I wasnt born again yesterday!

You have not answered one question I have presented. Why not answer them?

Read all my posts again, especially the scriptures. You should know the bible very well as you are quite studious in your reading. But this is a mystery to you still. This I do have a hidden message...

You have heard of God, but you have not seen him nor tried to seek his face.  

"You hypocrites! You draw near to Me with your mouth, and you honor Me with your lips, but your hearts are far from Me."

"For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."



"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and in truth"

Do you know how to do this? You don't. I have told you how but you have not understood.

[DARRELX]

I have read and understand fully where you are coming from if you are a Pentecostal /charismatic am I right? And or are you talking about heart knowledge over head knowledge? Or are you talking about being baptized in the Holy spirit?
So how can I know this Spirit of Truth? You say
My last post was the answer to your question it just wasnt the answer that you wanted but if you want I can go through a very lengthy exposition off the verses you mentioned (if you want me to though I feel like it would be water on a ducks back-lol) but not now it is 12:29 AM here and me need beauty sleep.
Semi-Calvinist-Conservative-fundamentalist-Me signing off for now!
See you next time god willing.

[felix102]

Brother, I dont mean to belittle you. Here is everything...

Look at Job. What can we learn from that story?
Job was a man of his integrity. He was a good man. But he did not have God in him. Job and his friends were still under the notion that if you do good God will take care of you and if you do bad well...look at Job, he was being punished. But Job didnt do any evil!

Thus, we see a very very long argument between Job and his friends. Both using their own MINDS to rationalize why Job was suffering as such. As long as they were using their minds they're arguments kept going. Their arguments take up a good amount of the bible! Haha, I know what you have in mind will be a long argument between the two of us if we keep arguing with our minds.

What they didnt know was God. When God came to talk with Job, Job finally said
"My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes."

But NOW MY EYES HAVE SEEN YOU...and now I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.

What did Job have to repent for? Why did Job have anything to despise himself for? Wasnt there no one on earth like him?

Job did not know God though he was a righteous man. But after he saw God did he understand these things.

Jesus said, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God"

What happens when we see God? We become like Christ. This is Christ's desire for us. Why did God make us in his image in the first place? We were made in his image so we could reflect his glory. But now we seek God's face so that we may go from glory to glory. You know this verse that is being spoken about.

Now I ask how can we become like Christ? What process is this. How are we transformed and conformed? You know that the company you keep will affect your character. If you spend time with someone greater than you, you will eventually become like him. Thus, the bible says

2 Corinthians 13:14
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

It is the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. Walking in the Spirit. You know about these things but ask God what it means. You can rationalize all you want to make it make sense in the worldly sense but this is not of the world. This is only a mystery because it is not known to the world. However, it is known to us who belong to God.

You have heard of God for a long time but now it is time that He fill you. It is one thing to know about God, it is another thing to turn your heart to him. Christ wants to live in you and make his home with you. Why was Jesus (Jehovah saves) not called Emmanuel(God with us) before? Have you thought about this?

This is why. Jesus came to save the world. After his death and resurrection he became a life-giving spirit. He is now with us! Emmanuel, God is with us! He lives in us.

Let is purify our hearts and turn our hearts to God. We need to "follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart." (2 tim 2:22)


I don't know the groups pentacostal or charimatic. I know the common faith of which the Apostle Paul speaks of (titus 1:4).

[DARRELX]

So what are you trying to say, that you want me to be baptised in the Holy Spirit?
Do I need to fall over or shake rattle and roll-lol