Fear, motivates the Secret Rapture theory ?

[Silver Surfer]

I'm beginning to think that fear, is the one single most contributing factor, behind the Rapture theory.

Christ warned people 4 times about the 2nd coming of Christ, (Matthew 24.....'Be Not Deceived')...and yet the Christian world acts as though they never read a single word he said.

No one can base their theory of the secret rapture on what the Bible teaches, because....it is not there !

There is no secret return of Jesus Christ......there is no 7 year Tribulation period, either.

[Shammu]

There is no secret return of Jesus Christ......there is no 7 year Tribulation period, either.

I am quoting this so you can't change your post later.

I think you need to study your Bible. With this statement, you have just admitted you are trying to cause trouble.
The Bible says it, I believe it.

[Silver Surfer]

There is no secret return of Jesus Christ......there is no 7 year Tribulation period, either.

I am quoting this so you can't change your post later.

I think you need to study your Bible. With this statement, you have just admitted you are trying to cause trouble.
The Bible says it, I believe it.

Acts 1:9   And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.  
  1:10   And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;  
  1:11   Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven".
 
QUESTION: Did they see him go up into the cloud ?
   The Bible verse says.....that they saw him go....and the verses says that Jesus will return the same way....visibly.


Now,
 1 Thessalonians  4:16   For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  
  4:17   Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

QUESTION: Does it seem to you that Jesus comes again secretly, from these verses ?


Again:
  24:30   And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  
  24:31   And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.  

QUESTION: 'ALL' ....the tribes of the earth shall mourn?
   Who doesn't see Christ returning from these Bible verses ?

 Yes, I am causing trouble ....for Satan, who promotes false doctrines, throughout the Christian world.

I will not stand by idly, while Satan promotes his ideas.

[Shammu]

Many Christians are afraid to talk about the rapture of the Church.  Deep down they feel an excitement about the prospect of being snatched away in the twinkling of an eye to be with the Lord and Savior they love, worship, and have given their lives to.  However, they fear being labeled or criticized for a hope that many through the ages have had; a hope that God fully intended for us to have.  God warned us against ignoring the hope that end-times prophecy gives us in I Thessalonians 5:16 when he said "Do not put out the Spirit's fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt.  Test everything.  Hold on to the good.  Avoid every kind of evil."

There is a reason Christ warned his end-times followers 13 times in the New Testament to not be deceived, and to watch and be ready.  He wanted us to be excited about His glorious appearing.

Satan, on the other hand, does not want us to be excited.  He is the master deceiver and wants us to believe his deception rather than the signs of Christ's return given to us by Jesus himself.  He will send many to deceive us and to rob us of the joy of living every day in anticipation of Christ's return.

For those who believe that the Bible is the truth and is the very word of God, it's easy to believe in and rejoice in the prophecies that tell of the rapture of God's Church.  The Bible tells us of others who have been taken up into heaven in very much the same way that we will be at the time of the rapture.

One of the best supporting verses from the Bible for the rapture of the Church is found in Revelation 3:10.
"Because you have kept my command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth."

This verse is a promise made by Christ to one of His seven churches, the church of Philadelphia.  The hour of trial Jesus speaks of in this verse is the period of time that our Lord calls the "great tribulation, Matthew 24:21 such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be".

There are many verses in the Bible that describe the rapture.  Christians in the first century church were so driven by the coming of their Lord and savior in the end-times that they shared their faith everywhere.  Paul wrote to the Thessalonian church in I Thessalonians 1:6-10
And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe.  For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place.  Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything.  For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and  true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

This belief in being taken up to meet Christ is the essence of hope.  A hope that Satan will fight and challenge with all of his might.

We also read the following in I Thessalonians 4:16-18
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ will rise first.  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up int he air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.  Therefore encourage each other with these words."

The Lord will shout a loud command as he descends from heaven, and we will hear the voice of the archangel, perhaps to lead Israel during the seven years of tribulation as he did in the Old Testament.  It should be an encouragement to all of us in these times of lust, greed, corruption, self-centeredness and resistance to all things that are of God.

I Corinthians 15:51-53 "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall all be changed.  For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."  
The Greek word here is harpadso, meaning "snatched up" to be with Christ.  When Christ comes to set up his earthly kingdom at the end of the tribulation, he will come with power and the holy angels to bind Satan, and to deal with the earthly Kings who are gathered at Jerusalem to oppose Him.  When He comes for his Church at the time of the rapture, He will leave his Father's house and come in the clouds to call the dead in Christ and then the living church to "come up hither," where they will join with each other in the clouds to live with Him in His Father's house.  Belief in this kind of resurrection was common among the Jews of that day.  Martha believed Jesus when he challenged her to understand the coming resurrection of the dead.  She responded to Jesus, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection in the last days."

When the rapture does occur, billions of people will be left behind full of surprise and shock at the disappearances of their loved ones, friends, and acquaintances. I believe that you, silversurfer will be one of these people.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Who knows what explanation the Antichrist will use to explain away the disappearances of millions of believers.  But, one thing is for certain, with the main obstacle to his plan for the world removed, the way will be clear for the Antichrist to implement his evil plan for the world as is prophesied in the Bible.  With the followers of Christ gone, few would stand in the way of a world religion that deifies man, and a world government that criminalizes belief in God.

[Shammu]

II Thessalonians 2:3, 6-7  "Let no one in any way deceive you for it (the Day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.  And you know what restrains him now, so that in this time he may be revealed.  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way."

 
In our world today, many are turning to a new age faith that vilifies belief in salvation through Christ, and changes the Word of God to fit an inclusive, creedless, self-gratifying religion that requires nothing and promises everything, including godhood.  A belief that releases us from any responsibility, accountability or consequences in life, is becoming more popular in our humanist society and will gain in popularity as the end times progress.

The forces of the Antichrist are restrained on Earth until the Holy Spirit which dwells within God's Church is removed by the rapture.  With Christ's followers removed from the scene, the Antichrist will be released to usher in the world's new age religion with all of its evils.

However, as this depressing time descends upon us, we can rejoice.  God promised us that he would deliver his Church from the persecutions of the Antichrist and the wrath of God that will follow his rise to power.  The rapture is the fulfillment of that promise.

I Thessalonians 5:4,9-10 "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.  For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him."

Christ will return for those who have died and those who are still living and deliver us from the wrath and tribulation that will be suffered by those who follow the Antichrist.

Romans 5:9 "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."

I Thessalonians 1:10 "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come."

God will come for his Church suddenly at a time when we least expect it.  For this reason, He instructs us to be ready, always prepared, and on guard for his coming.  As those around us turn their backs on God, worshipping themselves, other gods, or false prophets instead, we should be looking up.  We should have our spiritual lives in order, so that we might escape what is to come.  Especially as we are now witnessing the beginnings of birth pains, God reminds us that we need to be in prayer constantly so that we will not be led down the other path and miss His coming.

Luke 21:34-36  "Be on guard, that your heart may not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day come on you suddenly like a trap; for it will come upon the face of the earth.  But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

God felt it was so important for us to be alert and watchful for his coming that he reminded us several times to be ready.

Matthew 24:42  "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming."

Matthew 24:44  "For the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Matthew 24:36  "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

Matthew 25:13  "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour."

It is to our benefit that God didn't tell us the hour of His coming.  It encourages us to live righteously as Christ may return any time, and it encourages believers to work diligently for the souls of friends, family and the lost of this world.  It reminds us that we have much work to do and may not have much time to do it.  If there was ever a time to be an example, share your faith, and make sure that everyone you know has heard the name Jesus, it is now.

After the rapture of the Church, the tribulation will fall upon the Earth.  For those of us who received Christ and were prepared for His coming, we can shout for Joy.  The Lord has prepared a place for us and we will be with him always.

Isaiah 26:19-21  "Your dead will live; their corpses will rise.  You who lie in the dust awake and shout for joy.  For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.  Come, my people, enter into your rooms, And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while, Until indignation runs its course.  For behold, the Lord is about to come out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; and the earth will reveal her bloodshed, and will no longer cover her slain."

Many Christians will read about the rapture of the Church which will occur before the tribulation and respond with "It's too good to be true!" or "I don’t deserve to be saved from the wrath to come."  We often overlook, however, that trials and tribulations are a standard part of everyday life in a fallen world.  But our Lord specifically informed us that the tribulation is a special judgment of God.  It is for our sake that these days will be shortened for us.  This escape from wrath is not based on merit, but on what the Bible says.  God deals with us on a basis of grace when we accept him as our savior, and this basis extends itself to the tribulation.  We should celebrate the saving grace of Christ.  Let the joy that fills your soul at the mention of His return show in your life.  Let it be an example that draws others in.  Then tell everyone you know the reason for the hope that is within you so that they too may look to the future with excitement, hope and confidence, and you will see them in your Fathers house at that great time of reunion and rejoicing.

What your post are doing is serving Satan, silversurfer. That or you may be a confused person. Never the less you need to study the Bible better, then you have been.

Go in peace with God.
DW

[nChrist]

DreamWeaver,

AMEN BROTHER!!!

There is nothing secret about the RAPTURE. It was made public by Daniel in the Old Testament and confirmed in many other precious portions of Scripture. In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul reveals much more, including much that was not known by men of other ages. Specifically, Paul revealed a mystery about a church not made with human hands, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. Paul certainly didn't hint of any fear about the RAPTURE, just the opposite. The RAPTURE is a time of great JOY, not fear.

HOWEVER, the children of darkness WILL most definitely have reason to fear. The destruction will be beyond imagination.

Great posts Brother!

Love In Christ,
Tom

[musicllover]

Dreamweaver,
                  WOW ......you've read the bible haven't you?  
I couldn't have said it better myself......excellent repost.
musicllover

[No Gray Areas]

Amen Dream weaver.

[Silver Surfer]

One of the best supporting verses from the Bible for the rapture of the Church is found in Revelation 3:10.
"Because you have kept my command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth."

Jesus said: "I pray, not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil", (John 17:15).
Jesus told his followers, "In the world you shall have tribulation", (John 16:33).
Paul told his early Christian converts...."..we must thru many tribulations enter the Kingdom of God", (Acts 14:22).

This verse is a promise made by Christ to one of His seven churches, the church of Philadelphia.  The hour of trial Jesus speaks of in this verse is the period of time that our Lord calls the "great tribulation, Matthew 24:21 such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be".

And Christians ..are going thru it as Jesus said in John 17:15.

There are many verses in the Bible that describe the rapture.  Christians in the first century church were so driven by the coming of their Lord and savior in the end-times that they shared their faith everywhere.  Paul wrote to the Thessalonian church in I Thessalonians 1:6-10
And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe.  For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place.  Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything.  For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and  true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Again....John 17:15..."I pray, not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, that that thou shouldest keep them from the evil".

This belief in being taken up to meet Christ is the essence of hope.  A hope that Satan will fight and challenge with all of his might.

That's why Satan invented the 'Secret Rapture' theory....to make people believe that they might have a 2nd chance.

We also read the following in I Thessalonians 4:16-18
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ will rise first.  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up int he air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.  Therefore encourage each other with these words."

'dead raised first'....This being the 1st resurrection...which occurs 'after' the Mark of the Beast scenerio,(Revelation 20:4,5).

The Lord will shout a loud command as he descends from heaven, and we will hear the voice of the archangel, perhaps to lead Israel during the seven years of tribulation as he did in the Old Testament.  It should be an encouragement to all of us in these times of lust, greed, corruption, self-centeredness and resistance to all things that are of God.

remembering that the dead in Christ rise first....on the 'LAST DAY' (of the world), (John 6:40,44,54......John 11:24)

I Corinthians 15:51-53 "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall all be changed.  For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

And the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of his coming, (2 Thessaloninans 2:.
 

 Martha believed Jesus when he challenged her to understand the coming resurrection of the dead.  She responded to Jesus, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection in the last day."

The last day...of the world, (John 6:40,44,54).

When the rapture does occur, billions of people will be left behind full of surprise and shock at the disappearances of their loved ones, friends, and acquaintances.

Wrong....."As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the day of the coming of the son of man", (Matthew 24:37-42).
One group wassaved...the other group was destroyed.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Who knows what explanation the Antichrist will use to explain away the disappearances of millions of believers.  But, one thing is for certain, with the main obstacle to his plan for the world removed, the way will be clear for the Antichrist to implement his evil plan for the world as is prophesied in the Bible.  With the followers of Christ gone, few would stand in the way of a world religion that deifies man, and a world government that criminalizes belief in God.

[2nd Timothy]

Jesus said: "I pray, not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil", (John 17:15).
Jesus told his followers, "In the world you shall have tribulation", (John 16:33).


Many people use these verses to argue that the Church must go through tribulation.  If you read farther down in Jesus prayer he says....

Joh 17:24  Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, that they may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me, for You have loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Note:  Joh 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, so that where I am, you may be also.

They had work to do before they would go to the fathers house, just like Jesus did.  So this verse does not refute a rapture.

Act 14:22  confirming the souls of the disciples, calling on them to continue in the faith and that through much tribulation we must enter into the kingdom of God.

Much tribulation.  Daily life struggles, persecutions etc.  Not tribulation such as the world has never seen nor ever will.   IF that were the case, how is it that those who have already died will not see that time of tribulation but also enter the kingdom of heaven?  Doesn't hold water.

That's why Satan invented the 'Secret Rapture' theory....to make people believe that they might have a 2nd chance.

'dead raised first'....This being the 1st resurrection...which occurs 'after' the Mark of the Beast scenerio,(Revelation 20:4,5

Mat 27:52  and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep arose,
Mat 27:53  and coming out of the tomb after His resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Another...

Rev 11:11  And after three days and a half, a spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet. And great fear fell on those seeing them.
Rev 11:12  And they heard a great voice from Heaven saying to them, Come up here. And they went up to Heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.


So since we have first(s) ressurections going on Rev 20:4-5 completes the first fruits, not begins it.

As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the day of the coming of the son of man", (Matthew 24:37-42).

Speaking of the attitude of mans heart (eating, drinking, marrying etc.)

There are a host of other scriptures that point to a pre-trib rapture.   It may or may not happen that way, but pre-trib deffinately answers the most difficult questions concerning the rapture.

Grace and Peace!

[Silver Surfer]

Jesus said: "I pray, not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil", (John 17:15).
Jesus told his followers, "In the world you shall have tribulation", (John 16:33).


Many people use these verses to argue that the Church must go through tribulation.  If you read farther down in Jesus prayer he says....

Joh 17:24  Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, that they may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me, for You have loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Note:  Joh 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, so that where I am, you may be also.

They had work to do before they would go to the fathers house, just like Jesus did.  So this verse does not refute a rapture.

Act 14:22  confirming the souls of the disciples, calling on them to continue in the faith and that through much tribulation we must enter into the kingdom of God.

Much tribulation.  Daily life struggles, persecutions etc.  Not tribulation such as the world has never seen nor ever will.

OK, some people might respond by saying: Yes, but those verses are talking about tribulation....not 'the' tribulation.
Really ?
If the majority of Bible texts (tribulation) refer to what the believers go thru...why would God's word suddenly shift by teaching that, 'the' tribulation is something believers will not go thru ?
Notice what it says in Revelation 20:4,5.....
"..and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus Christ and the word of God ...."are they Christians ?

[2nd Timothy]

If the majority of Bible texts (tribulation) refer to what the believers go thru...why would God's word suddenly shift by teaching that, 'the' tribulation is something believers will not go thru ?
Notice what it says in Revelation 20:4,5.....
"..and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus Christ and the word of God ...."are they Christians ?

You will also notice there is no mention of the living.  The rapture is promise to the living.....not just the dead.   The purpose of Revelation is the revealing of Christ to the world.  Don't be surprised if many will not come to repentance when they realise what is happening.

Grace and Peace!

[2nd Timothy]

As a matter of fact, Rev 20 seemingly makes post rapture impossible

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There are two groups mentioned here.  They who sat on thrones, already given judgment duties, and souls.  How do we have living before the dead, when we know the dead rise first?

Grace and Peace!

[nChrist]

2nd Timothy,

AMEN BROTHER!

I think that I see where Silver Surfer is going with this, but it won't work. Christians do suffer tribulation, trials, and assaults by the devil in this short life. BUT, there is a huge difference. THE RESTRAINER WILL BE REMOVED FOR THE GREAT TRIBULATION! Any casual student of the Holy Bible will easily recognize THE RESTRAINER AS THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD!

The devil will be loosed in the GREAT TRIBULATION, and the anti-Christ will reign in a portion of the GREAT TRIBULATION. There will still be witnesses during the 7 year Tribulation Period, and people will be Saved. A host of the Saved will be beheaded for their beliefs, hunted, and have their Faith tried and tested - quite a contrast from the Gospel of God's Grace. They will have to reject the mark of the beast and proclaim their faith in Jesus Christ unto death to be Saved. Further, that proclamation unto death will spare them from the eternal wrath to come.

At this point in time, Christians certainly have trials, but we don't have GREAT TRIBULATION because of the RESTRAINER - THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[2nd Timothy]

BEP, I have looked this over several times, and the evidence always leads me to a pre-trib scenario.   Not that I couldn't be wrong, but pre-trib fits like a glove when we let scripture speak for itself.  The other views require too much monkeying with scripture to make it all work together.

Whatever the case, I don't think the wait will be too much longer no matter what view one holds.  I think we are so close things will have to go into standby for the end to wait.   As Jesus said it would be like birth pangs....well, seems to me the water has broken as of late.  

Grace and Peace!