Disciplining 8/9 year olds

[LMarsh]

My good friend and neighbor is going through a real hard time with her 8 year old daughter.  This isn't the first time this issue has come up with her and her daughter.  Her daughter is the youngest of three and is very strong willed.

Well, there always seems to be confrontations in the morning before school.... Her daughter's temper flares up and she screams and cries.  Her mother tries to reason with her then loses her temper herself.  She has tried being calm, washing her mouth out with soap (which was this morning).....and they ended up struggling and then her daughter bit her tongue and was yelling at her...look what you made me do!
One of the things the daughter always does is say....I'm going to tell daddy!
Anyways...I was hoping someone has some disciplining ideas.  I've given her all the ideas I had. But none seem to have worked.  They are a Christian family so any biblical verses would help as well.  
I asked permission from her to post and maybe get some other ideas.
Thanks and God Bless,
LMarsh

[2nd Timothy]

Hello LMarsh, welcome to the forum!

From what little detail you have given here, it sounds as though maybe, both parents are not on the same page as far as discipline goes?   If the girl is always threatning to go to daddy, maybe she feels as though daddy is a bit more relaxed about her behaviour?   Of course I don't know if this is the case, but from my own experience, its clear that both parents need to be on the same page in regards to expected behaviour and the consequences that follow for unacceptable behaviour.   Children are smarter in this regard than most parents give them credit for.  Me and my wife sit down and discuss these things frequently in order to keep oneness on the issues.   Does this make sense?

As for discipline, I believe it all boils down to actions/consequences.   Both good and bad.  In our family, inapropriate behaviour will bring about bad consequences ranging anywhere from timeouts, groundings, loosing certain privaledges, etc.   Spankings are usually left for cases of extremely bad behaviour, and I must say things hardly ever reach that point.   Just as important (I think) is rewarding good behaviour with extra privaldges like, a trip to basken robins to get some ice-cream, an extra dollar for their allowance, something special they have been wanting.   Whatever is decided on for discipline, the idea is to teach the child that their actions/choices bring about consequences good or bad.  After all this is what life is all about.  We make choices in our lives all the times that have effect.  If the choices are good ones, the results usually benefit us.  It they are bad choices we suffer because of it.  

For all this to work, both parents need to be a solid front and hold up the same standards before the child.  And of course, as parents, the examples we set in our daily lives do not go un-noticed.    The ole, "Do as I say not as I do" phrase wont fly.  Children are smarter than that and will notice.  Parents should use these situations as they come up in their own lives to show kids how their own actions have cause and effect....good and bad.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a magic button we can push and change unwanted behaviour.   Children have their own wills, and desires just like we do as adults.  Its our job to teach them that the choices made from their desires and wills do have consequences, and everyone wants to make choices that have good results!

As with all things, don't forget prayer.   My daily prayer includes asking for guidance as a father.   Its a scarry thing being a parent.  The responisbility is enormous when one thinks about the eneral souls we are helping to shape.   Ask God for help and guidance.

I hope this helps in some small way.  I will keep your friend in prayer concerning this.

Grace and Peace!

[sincereheart]

My good friend and neighbor is going through a real hard time with her 8 year old daughter.  This isn't the first time this issue has come up with her and her daughter.  Her daughter is the youngest of three and is very strong willed.

Well, there always seems to be confrontations in the morning before school.... Her daughter's temper flares up and she screams and cries.  Her mother tries to reason with her then loses her temper herself.  She has tried being calm, washing her mouth out with soap (which was this morning).....and they ended up struggling and then her daughter bit her tongue and was yelling at her...look what you made me do!
One of the things the daughter always does is say....I'm going to tell daddy!
Anyways...I was hoping someone has some disciplining ideas.  I've given her all the ideas I had. But none seem to have worked.  They are a Christian family so any biblical verses would help as well.  
I asked permission from her to post and maybe get some other ideas.
Thanks and God Bless,
LMarsh

My first thoughts are centered around the timing of the before school problems:
1. Are there problems at school that makes the child not want to go? Whether it's peer pressure, teacher/student personality differences, any other problems; real or imagined...
2. Is the child getting enough sleep- going to bed early enough? Or are they getting up early enough to have time to get ready without rushing?

[LMarsh]

Hi and thanks for the responses.

It doesn't just happen before school.  But when issues like which shoes or such come up in the morning....there is a problem.  I know my friend is actually going to counselling for her anger problem.  Her daughter seems to be mimicing the same  issues as her mother.  

I think my friend just has run out of options and doesn't seem to know what to do next discipline wise.
I believe she's done the time out...taking away priveleges, rewarding good behaviour....showing a united front.
I will mention to her about gettting enough sleep and getting up early enough so your not rushing around.

I don't know.  My kids just seem to have this inate FEAR of me and my consequences.  But I'd hate to tell her to instill fear into her daughter.    Though that is one of the first things I did in becoming a Christian.  Feared God.

I have heard of some rather unusual ways to deal with temper issues.  Such as throwing a glass of water in they're face. (haven't tried that one)...though it worked for another friend and her three year old.

Thanks for your time and input.
God Bless,
LMarsh

[2nd Timothy]

Hi and thanks for the responses.

It doesn't just happen before school.  But when issues like which shoes or such come up in the morning....there is a problem.  I know my friend is actually going to counselling for her anger problem.  Her daughter seems to be mimicing the same  issues as her mother.  

I think my friend just has run out of options and doesn't seem to know what to do next discipline wise.
I believe she's done the time out...taking away priveleges, rewarding good behaviour....showing a united front.
I will mention to her about gettting enough sleep and getting up early enough so your not rushing around.

I don't know.  My kids just seem to have this inate FEAR of me and my consequences.  But I'd hate to tell her to instill fear into her daughter.    Though that is one of the first things I did in becoming a Christian.  Feared God.

I have heard of some rather unusual ways to deal with temper issues.  Such as throwing a glass of water in they're face. (haven't tried that one)...though it worked for another friend and her three year old.

Thanks for your time and input.
God Bless,
LMarsh

LMarsh,

I kind of gathered there may have been some anger issues from the first post.  Very good that your friend is seeking counselling for this.   I am no expert, but I am willing to say this is probably the crux of the problem.  Discipline must be done in Love.

Eph 6:4  And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Col 3:21  Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

These things must be done in Love and in a nurturing way.   Washing the mouth out with soap, or throwing water in their face IMO falls into the category of provoking wrath, and seems to be coming from frustration and anger rather than Love.   I don't wish to sound harsh, but thats just my take on it.  And believe me, I understand how easy it is to get angry at my children.   Many times, I will put off discipline till I can do it when I am not angry.  This may sound funny, but I have even taken a walk around the house a time or two on a few instances just to get my composure first  

When you can discipline in Love, children will understand that their actions or bad choices brought it upon themselves.  When you do it in anger children will see it as YOUR anger that is brining it about and retaliate in kind.  I think that is what is happening here.

One more thing.  Like I said before, theres no magic button or method that is fullproof.  The key is consistancy.  Timeouts and taking away privaledges do work wonders, if done on a consistant basis (in love!).   Don't give up if it doesn't work after a time or two.  She needs to be consistant with the line that is drawn in the sand.  This is the only way that her daughter will begin to understand what is right and wrong.  If the line is constantly moving and changing, and the consequences are unknown then she is going to push and push and push trying to find where the line is.   I'm sure these things will come up in counselling.  Does the counselling involve chid rearing, or just anger managment?  If not I would highly encourag her and her husband to see a christian counseller to help with these issues.  Sometimes in the heat of things its hard to be a parent and we could all use a little help from a spirit filled leader such as a pastor or counseller.  This way they can get into all the details going on with both the parents and the child, and offer good advise from a Godly perspective.

I'll be keeping your friend and her daughter in prayer.

Grace and Peace!

[Corpus]

Before she and her husband can discipline with any credibility, they'll have to model the behavior they expect. Though it's good the mom is seeking counseling, if she can't control her temper NOW, then nothing will change in her daughter. If the father doesn't immediately adopt a more united front with the mom NOW, then nothing will change with the daughter.

Counseling is good, provided it has an end goal and perhaps timetable associated with it. Too many counselors and patients simply assume counseling is an on-going experience they'll have to undergo indefinitely. While this might be true for more extreme cases. More often it simply becomes a sort of dependency unto itself with no measurable point of having 'arrived.' If the mom's obtaining no measurable results with the counselor, then it's time to seek another counselor. If the father is avoiding being a father, then perhaps he too needs counseling, but more likely just a good kick in the rear.

[LMarsh]

Thank you so much for the great responses.  I printed them and will show them or read them to her today.
I really don't know what kind of disciplinarian the husband is but a very valid point!

I believe all of your comments will be so helpful to her!
God Bless you...I'm so thankful for your caring responses,
LMarsh

[Faithwalk]

Hi,

I hope you don't mind me responding.  As a mother of a 11 year old and a 7 year old I can defintely relate to what is happening.  When they misbehave like that I normally ask them two question, 'Do you love God? who are you obeying when you behave like that, Jesus or Satan?'  It usually works because they KNOW what God expects of them.

As Corpus said earlier it is very essential that BOTH parents model the type of behaviour they expect -- including saying 'I am sorry'.