"What is Christmas to you?”

[Ambassador4Christ]

"What is Christmas to you?”

[Psalm 119]

December 25th is a holiday that began thousands of years before the birth of Christ.It was steeped around the worship of the Sun (not SON). The pagans believed that the sun was re-born at this time of year. The greenery was placed all around to keep evil spirits away and bring "good luck", and the gift exchange was in honor of the goddess Strenia.  Around 336 A.D. the Catholic Church adopted these pagan practices, and repackaged the holiday and called it Christmas. Meaning Christ's Mass/ an abominable Catholic practice. Most biblical scholars will agree that Jesus was not born in December, due to the inclement weather at this time of year. The shepherds would not have been out in the fields with their flocks.

The first 300 plus years after the death of Christ,the Church of Jesus Christ did not acknowlege His birth ( for no where in the Bible does it say to do such a thing). We are to acknowledge His death.Over the centuries there have been Christians who would not participate in the Catholic; Christ-mass.The Puritans were such a people. They forbade the practice of it when they first settled in Massachussetts.There is a remnant of Christians today who refuse to particpate in this holiday known as Christ-mass.

So what does Christmass mean to me? I believe it's a stench in the nostrils of a Holy God.

"For the customs of the peoples are futile, for one cuts a tree from the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the ax. They decorate it with nails and hammers, so that it will not topple. They are upright, like a palm tree, and they cannot speak." Jer. 10:3-5

Psalm 119

[Tibby]

Christmas is no for Pagan then speaking English. English is MORE so Pagan. The Characters we write with, they words we use, all from pagan Languages.

Jer. 10:3-5 is about idols. Not my translate, the truth. They clearly shape the tree into a statue or a figure of some sort. Call me when you find someone worshiping their Christmas tree.

You people sicken me. Getting hung up on such pointless issues. Christmas is what you make it. I say SHAME ON YOU for making it a pagan holiday. I shall celebrate the Birth of Christ. It doesn’t matter what false god’s festival was held, I don’t know about the god your worship, but my God is bigger then that.

[Psalm 119]

Tibby,

If you would take a few moments, go to Google, type in "pagan Christmas", there is tons of information on the pagan origins of Christmas.

You know what is so interesting one can ask most any Pastor about the origins of Christmass and they will tell you they know all about the roots of the holiday, but they give you the BIG BUT.....answer.

Make no mistake about Christmas, it did not originate from Christian roots, then get paganized. Christians took a pagan holiday and have attempted to Christianize it. Jesus said, you will know a tree by it's fruit.

Let me ask you this question:"If Christmass was truly a God honoring holiday, would the wicked have anything to do with it?" "If it is truly the birthdate of the Savior of the World would those who despise Him want to acknowlege this day?"

Tertullian(A.D, 150-230), an early Christian apologist, in his "Treatise of Idolatry" wrote the following:

"Let those who have no light in themselves light candles.
"Let those whom hell fire is hanging fix to their doors laurels doomed presently to burn.
You are the light of the world, you are a tree ever green.
If you have renounced temples, make not your own house a temple.

Here is a link from statements made by Charles Spurgeon (a world famous preacher/evangelist from the 1800's) in regards to Christmas.

http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/resource/spurgeon.htm

These things I share are from someone who loves the Lord Jesus and His Word. Not from a Jehovah's Witness or another cult.

Psalm 119

[Sower]

So what does Christmass mean to me? I believe it's a stench in the nostrils of a Holy God -- Psalm119

You people sicken me. Getting hung up on such pointless issues. Christmas is what you make it. I say SHAME ON YOU for making it a pagan holiday -- Tibby

Greetings to all my brothers and sisters on this Forum. I have been away from this board for many months, and I do regret not being able to communicate with you all.  There were many reasons for my absence. However, the Lord was always in control and He has sustained us and encouraged us. I am sure He has abundantly blessed each one of you day by day, and is continuing to do so.

Regarding the observance of Christmas, there is no question that December 25 was not the date of the birth of our Lord and Saviour, and that it was undoubtedly a pagan festival. When the church of Rome ushered paganism into it's doctrine and practice, Christmas, Easter and many other pagan festivals were given a "Christian" veneer.

At the same time, genuine believers do remember and honour the Lord on this day with genuine worship and praise. So how should we regard Christmas?

Regarding Christmas (or any other "holy" day) the Word of God is quite plain and instructive:

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.  Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it... But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ... So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, THAT NO MAN PUT A STUMBLINGBLOCK OR AN OCCASION TO FALL IN HIS BROTHER'S WAY" (Romans 14:5-13, see the entire chapter, since it is very instructive regarding all such issues).

If we keep our focus on the Saviour and what His birth, life, death and resurrection mean to each one of us and to this universe, it matters not whether the origin of "Christ-mass" was pagan. God regardeth the heart, so make Christmas a day of worship of the triune Godhead.

Grace and peace be to you all through our Lord Jesus Christ

Sower

[Allinall]

Amen Brother Sower, amen.    

P.S. Welcome back!

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Sower,

A SECOND AMEN BROTHER!

We are indeed glad to have you back. We missed you.

As for my family, we will be praising and worshiping Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour before the 25th, on the 25th, and after the 25th. In fact, all 365 days of every year belong to HIM, and we could really care less what men call particular days. If we have a Christmas tree, it will be HIS Christmas tree.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Brother Love]

My answer may surprise, and even disappoint, some of you, but here goes.  Christmas to me is just another National Holiday, and I celebrate it as a National Holiday, just as I do the 4th of July.  
 
    I place no more spiritual emphasis upon it than I do other days.  God creates every day.  Consequently, each day is holy and special.  I place the same level of holy emphasis upon the 26th of December as I do the 25th.  We dont know the exact date Jesus was born, and we certainly have no instructions to celebrate His birthday.  I celebrate His birth and life every day, not just on certain days.
 
    Now, having said all of that, I can see some good coming from the activities associated with the Christmas Holiday.  Many of this seasons ornaments such as the Christmas carols point people in the direction of the One who gave His life that others might be rescued from the clutches of Satan and this evil world.

Brother Love

[Allinall]

What is Christmas to me?

It's not a historically correct birthday of Jesus.  It's not, in many cases, even a celebration of that day.  But what is Christmas to me?  I'll answer that with another question I've asked before in a message I preached on this very thing.  What is Christmas?

When I consider this question, I can't help but be drawn back to the lives of three men in the Old Testament: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  What stands out about these three men more than anything to me, is that God made each of them promises - and He kept them.

Take Abraham for example.  Here's a fellow that worshipped the moon, and was most likely even a priest in that cult.  God, by no merit of Abraham's whatsoever, calls him out of Ur of the Chaldees, doesn't tell him where He's calling him too, only that He will show this land to him when he gets there.  But He does tell him why:

And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Genesis 12:2-3

All of this, and Abraham goes.  We have issues with believing God will meet our financial needs, and this fellow up and leaves everything, believing he should obey, but not yet believing the God he was obeying (Genesis 15:6)!

What's more, when he does finally believe (a belief that was counted unto him as righteousness), it's only after 15 or so years of silence, waiting for the first son by which this promise would be fulfilled.  That's right!  He had no son by which this promise was to be fulfilled!  Add on top of that, Abraham was 100 years old, and his wife was 90!  The odds were stacked in his favor for disbelieving, yet he believed - and was rewarded with the birth of Isaac!  God gave him the son through which His promises would be fulfilled.  God kept His word to Abraham.

Then take Isaac.  God makes the same promise to him as He made to his father Abraham:

I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Genesis 26:4-5

Isaac had learned a life of belief from his father, who was called "the friend of God."  But he had to put his belief in God's promise to him as well.  Afterall, it wasn't until he was 60 that Esau and Jacob were born.  But he too struggled, and he too believed God.  And again, God gave him the son through which His promise would be kept, the younger son Jacob.  God kept His word to Isaac as well as Abraham.

Then consider Jacob.  Here's a guy who is by his very name a cheat.  He cheated Esau out of his birthright and his blessing, both of which were granted to him by God to begin with!  He didn't believe God.  Instead he fled from Esau at the bequest of his parents, and made a bargain with God:

...If God will be with me and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat and clothing to wear, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God, and this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God's house. And of all that you give me I will give a full tenth to you.

Genesis 28:20-22

If God will bless and keep me then He will be my God.  What pride!  What arrogance!  What utter disbelief!  And yet, what does God do for Jacob?  He prospers him, blesses him and brings him again to the land his children would one day inherit.  And along the way, Jacob meets a man that he wrestles with the night through, knowing that it was the Lord.  In truth, he knew it was God, and wanted a blessing.  I also tend to think that for the first time in his life Jacob realized God, and when he got a hold of Him, he wasn't about to let go.  God blessed him, changed his name, and made him the same promise He'd made his fathers prior:

And God said to him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply. A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, and kings shall come from your own body.  The land that I gave to Abraham and Isaac I will give to you, and I will give the land to your offspring after you."

Genesis 35:11-12

Jacob, now called Israel, had come full circle.  He believed God, and God promised him a nation and a land.  God gave him 10 sons through which His promise would be fulfilled.  God kept His word to Jacob.  But what I find most interesting about each of these promises, is that none of these men lived to see those promises come to fruition!  Yet each of them believed.

TO BE CONTINUED...

[Allinall]

...CONTINUED

So you say, "Nice history lesson, but what does this have to do with Christmas?"  And again I ask, what is Christmas?

As I think of the promises God made and kept each of these men, I'm reminded of a promise that God made to a woman in the garden, many, many years before Abraham was even thought of in human terms:

I will put enmity between you and the woman,
   and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
   and you shall bruise his heel."

Genesis 3:15

God promised a Redeemer would be born of Eve.  When Eve first gave birth, she was overjoyed thinking that that child was the One God had promised - yet she too died in her belief, not seeing the promise fulfilled.  

Until a man named Abraham was called.  God promised him a nation would be born from him - and gave him a son.  God promised that son, Isaac, a nation would be born of him - and gave him twin sons.  God promised the younger son, Jacob a nation would come from him - and gave him 10 sons.  One of those sons was destined for glory, while the other 9 despised him.  They sold Joseph into slavery in Egypt.  Through trial and hardship, Joseph rose to be second only to Pharoah, rescued the land and his family from a deadly famine, restored the bond of that family, and added to his father's children with two of his own.  There in Egypt they stayed, grew into 12 mighty tribes, were enslaved, delivered and brought back into the very land God had promised to give the descendants of Abraham as the nation of Israel.  In later years, from one tribe, Judah, came a king.  From the line of the king, came a Branch - the very fulfillment of God's promise to Eve in the Garden of Eden millennia prior, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

What is Christmas?  It's a promise kept.  The Redeemer had come.  He lived a sinless life, died a criminal's death for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day - and makes yet another promise.  A promise, that if we believe God, that this Son paid the price for our sins on that cross, was buried, and risen again on the third day, taking our sins away and granting us life eternal, and accept that gift in repentance by faith then our guilt is removed, and our eternity is secured.  A promise of salvation from our sins.  Many stagger at such a promise.  But when I think of Christmas, I have to wonder why.  What is Christmas?  It's a promise kept.  What is salvation?  It's a promise made by a God, with a very, very long history of keeping His word.

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Love and Allinall,

AMEN BROTHERS!

Most people get more days off from work during this time frame. It may not be true of all Christians, but the ones I know usually use the extra days off for special Church services, Christian fellowship with friends and family, and a host of other activities with Christ at the core.

My church and another church will join together with our young people and singers to do several performances of a Christmas Cantata. It involves people from 5 to 85 years old, Scripture reading, Christmas Carols, Hymns, and a script about the birth of Jesus with people of all ages playing the parts. This kind of fun is about as clean, Biblical, and honoring to God as you can get. I especially enjoy the involvement of the children. They have supervised practice and teaching numerous times before the Cantata, and I'm positive they learn a lot about Jesus as a primary benefit. Regardless of how strict a Christian might be, I doubt they would be able to find anything wrong with this and other events we have at church during this time of the year.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Brother Love]

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Love and Allinall,

AMEN BROTHERS!

Most people get more days off from work during this time frame. It may not be true of all Christians, but the ones I know usually use the extra days off for special Church services, Christian fellowship with friends and family, and a host of other activities with Christ at the core.

My church and another church will join together with our young people and singers to do several performances of a Christmas Cantata. It involves people from 5 to 85 years old, Scripture reading, Christmas Carols, Hymns, and a script about the birth of Jesus with people of all ages playing the parts. This kind of fun is about as clean, Biblical, and honoring to God as you can get. I especially enjoy the involvement of the children. They have supervised practice and teaching numerous times before the Cantata, and I'm positive they learn a lot about Jesus as a primary benefit. Regardless of how strict a Christian might be, I doubt they would be able to find anything wrong with this and other events we have at church during this time of the year.

Love In Christ,
Tom

And a Big AMEN!!! Back at you Bro

Brother Love

[Psalm 119]

Dear Brothers,

I have an honest question for all of you?  " I have heard many people say that this is the time to honor the Savior and His birth, a time to tell others about Christ; have any of you ever led someone to the Lord during this season?"

Psalm 119

[Symphony]

Hi, Psalm 119, glad to see you back.  

Psalm makes an excellent point.  We are to be instant in season and out of season.  And Paul warns in Galatians about the rigid and endless keeping of this day and that day.  I would say that includes christmas, birthdays or anything else.

Still, Christmas is a reminder by its very title.  In my small rural town, "Christmas" is being less and less permitted--even from your lips.  In fact, there are those here, I believe, who are vividly fulfilling Dr. Seuss's "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" without even realizing it!!  They don't want you to even "think" the ideas of forgiveness, making up, which to me are a part of Christmas.  Christmas for me is an opportunity to sometimes mend old wounds with others.

But still, we aren't to reserve that for just one season in the year, as Psalm and bep and others here would remind us.

I might give a nod to Christmas.  I'll still give a gift to the postman.  And maybe to a few others.  But probalby not much more than that.  In the family?  No.  They all do.  But I probably won't.  It becomes a rite, which is pagan.

Thank you, Jesus, for the year-round Christmas that we have in Him...

[HopeAndFaith]

Hello Everyone, as you can see i am new. I have known for a long time that The Catholic church adopted pagan celebtrations, to bring pagans in to the church and possibly covert them. as i understand it , the Catholic church thought it was  a good idea to do this, so it would ease their transition (as misguided as it is)  I understand this. I have to agree with those that say that it is our intentions, what is in our hearts that matters. God knows my heart, my beginning and end. So He knows that even tho i charish every day that He gives me, i also revere the day Jesus was born, because it is important to me. I know that there is no actual record of the exact day of His birth. But i choose to honor this day, like the day He died. As i watched a Christain video about Christmas last night with my 2 1/2 year old daughter and my husband, a thought dawned on me. He chose to come, to be born- knowing that He would have to not only suffer death for us, but knowing that He would have to suffer the indignities of having a diaper change, learning how to walk and talk. The Son of God!The fact that He chose to be born is an awesome thing to me. tho i can find no scripture saying that i should celebrate this day, it is my choice to honor Him in His birth as i do everyday, and especially His death. We do sing Happy Birthday (i hope that doesn't sound cheesey) to Jesus before we open presents, and take time to note that Jesus is the Reason for the season. My family views Christmas as a time to give to each other, not only material things, but love and honor and forgivness. This year , all of my family are a little short in the wallet, so we are giving the latter, lol. we try not to view it as a ritual, but as something we want to do. But please, let us use this forum to encourage each other, not to tear each other down. There are plenty of other places to do that. I joined last night because i truly wanted to find a place for Christians to fellowhip. I hope that this is the place. anyway, thanks for taking the time to read my views.
Hugs in Christ, Mary