"What is Christmas to you?”

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to HopeAndFaith,

AMEN SISTER!

I enjoyed your post. You are completely correct that God knows our hearts in what we do every day, including 12-25. Regarding the short in the wallet problem, I think that a fairly large percentage of us suffer from that problem.  

For that reason, a lot of our church activities involve pot-luck gatherings where we eat together, enjoy the company, and have fellowship.

Please let me give you a second welcome to Christians Unite. You are a welcome addition to the family here. I look forward to reading your posts.

In Christ,
Tom

 

[Tibby]

Psalms119-  I never doubted the fact there are pagan origins. It isn’t when we Celebrate that matters, it is WHAT we celebrate. Why do people who know this always assume we who disagree don’t? You asked me 2 questions:

"If Christmass was truly a God honoring holiday, would the wicked have anything to do with it?”

Nope. Which is why there is nothing Wicked about it. History is not for us to fear, but to learn from and correct. We have learned that these days where used to celebrate gods, and corrected the issue.
 
"If it is truly the birthdate of the Savior of the World would those who despise Him want to acknowlege this day?"

Because presents are involved and we get off work and school despite our religious affiliation. When you tack on things like money, and presents, and vacation, people start lining up to join in the fun. It isn’t who Celebrates it that matters, it is what WE celebrate. Those who despise him are celebrating something else, I am celebrating God.

Unless you are attacking the use of light, I don’t see the relevance of  the Tertullian quote to this.

Spurgeon said some good things. But there are a few Problems with it:

1. And his is a personal thing, but it might be important to point out at this time that I see no problem with the mass. I think you know that, but I’ll just add this in.

2. The Bible doesn’t say a think about Christmas, correct. Hey, it doesn’t say a thing about Mass being bad, either! What do ya know? Hey, I just did a search, the internet isn’t anywhere in the bible. The fact something isn’t mentioned in the bible doesn’t make it wrong.

3. Superstition? How is Christmas Superstition? It is a celebration. Christ Clearly had no problem with people celebrating him. Everyone knows all about Christmas not being the date. Everyone knows that the predominate theory is it was in the Spring, we know, we know. It isn’t when we Celebrate that matters, it is WHAT we celebrate. Leave date-setting to the Eschatologists and Creationists.

 I had said it before, and I will say it again, This is the day that the lord has made. Tomorrow will be the day that the lord has made, and you know what? December 25 is the day that the lord has made. The Pagans did not make the day the celebrate, God made the day. Saturn didn’t made the Day, God did. I for one will no longer stand idly by and let the Pagans take one more December 25 for their own. December 25 is the Day that the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it. And I will NOT be scared off by some ancient Pagan tradition!

If we keep our focus on the Saviour and what His birth, life, death and resurrection mean to each one of us and to this universe, it matters not whether the origin of "Christ-mass" was pagan. God regardeth the heart, so make Christmas a day of worship of the triune Godhead.

I'm going ot ditto that, as well.

[HopeAndFaith]

  Thanks Tom, i think i am going to really like here!

December 25 is the day that the lord has made. The Pagans did not make the day the celebrate, God made the day. Saturn didn’t made the Day, God did. I for one will no longer stand idly by and let the Pagans take one more December 25 for their own. December 25 is the Day that the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it. And I will NOT be scared off by some ancient Pagan tradition!

*stands up and claps!* you go ahead with your bad- err, i mean good self! My mom would love that!

[Symphony]

Christmas to me is the gospel.  The "good news".  Growing up, for me it was always "good news".

I think for little children the world over, while Christmas is still permitted, it is exactly that, "good news", to them.  The bright lights, the festivities.  the eggnog(yum).  The presents.

Christmas represents for me generosity, old wounds healed, peace, a time to make up.  That's what for Christians Christmas is, the birth of "forgiveness", in the form of a real, live baby boy.  

But Christmas to me isn't a time, or a season.

For that reason, I probably withdraw from too much of the seasonal affair.  

But if given the chance, I will use the Christmas season to advance His Kingdom, Lord willing, in some way.

Anyone feeling sorry for themselves during this season or any other should feel ashamed of themselves.  

[Whitehorse]

To me, Christmas is silence.

It's the need to get away from the party for a while, and go be alone with my God. It isn't the one day to forget the distractions and focus on Christ; rather, it is the annual day that I'm reminded to focus on Him everyday.

It's silence. Bowing down before His throne, what can I say? What do you say to your all-powerful Creator, with so much power, but because of His only Son, He says...nothing? Nothing about the things that would make me say plenty if I were in His shoes.

And He knows I know, and so we commune together. I ask His thoughts, and hear nothing; a peaceful reminder that I will receive my answers in time, and there is no discomfort over this today. When have I ever needed His counsel and not received it? And so begins the introspection to find the answer. But I will do this later.

For now, hours are spent with His breathing His will into my soul with silence, and my returning it to Him through prayer.

Christmas is about the knowledge that focusing on Christ is what we do in our souls. It's a commitment to seek Him when the visible signs are gone, the tree is down, and we are once more in the midst of those who do not know Him.

Christmas is a somber reminder that if God has forgiven us, so must we forgive others. It is a requirement for our own forgiveness. Christmas is a chance to practice what I know about this. A reminder that God requires nothing less than our very souls.

And there's tremendous joy in what this powerful God has done for temporal breaths of wind like us. Christmas is the mix of raw power and insurmountable love.

Christmas is a festivity of silence.

[Ambassador4Christ]

Men have given many gifts to each other down through
the ages, but in James 1:17 we read that "every good gift
and every perfect gift is from above," and comes to us from
God. The greatest of these gifts is our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ and the redemption He has purchased for us.
In speaking to the sinner-woman at Sychar’s well, our Lord
drew a picture, contrasting the barrenness of her own life
with the refreshing joy of salvation, saying:

"If thou knewest THE GIFT OF GOD, and who it is that saith to thee, Give Me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of Him, and He would have given thee living water... Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again, but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst..." (John 4:10-14).

By nature we are all sinners, but by the grace of God we
all may be saved.

"For the wages of sin is death, but THE GIFT OF GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).

"For by grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is THE GIFT OF GOD: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).

Thus St. Paul speaks of "the gift of the grace of God" (Eph.
3:7) and constantly emphasizes the fact that salvation is a
free gift.

But a gift is not possessed until it is accepted. Thus the
Apostle, in Rom. 5:17, refers to those who "RECEIVE abun-
dance of grace and of the gift of righteousness."

Those who receive Christ and the salvation He has
wrought for them, find it natural to exclaim with Paul-
"THANKS BE UNTO GOD FOR HIS UNSPEAKABLE
GIFT!" (II Cor. 9:15).


Merry Christmas

19 more days

[ollie]

So what does Christmass mean to me? I believe it's a stench in the nostrils of a Holy God -- Psalm119

You people sicken me. Getting hung up on such pointless issues. Christmas is what you make it. I say SHAME ON YOU for making it a pagan holiday -- Tibby

Greetings to all my brothers and sisters on this Forum. I have been away from this board for many months, and I do regret not being able to communicate with you all.  There were many reasons for my absence. However, the Lord was always in control and He has sustained us and encouraged us. I am sure He has abundantly blessed each one of you day by day, and is continuing to do so.

Regarding the observance of Christmas, there is no question that December 25 was not the date of the birth of our Lord and Saviour, and that it was undoubtedly a pagan festival. When the church of Rome ushered paganism into it's doctrine and practice, Christmas, Easter and many other pagan festivals were given a "Christian" veneer.

At the same time, genuine believers do remember and honour the Lord on this day with genuine worship and praise. So how should we regard Christmas?

Regarding Christmas (or any other "holy" day) the Word of God is quite plain and instructive:

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.  Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it... But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ... So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, THAT NO MAN PUT A STUMBLINGBLOCK OR AN OCCASION TO FALL IN HIS BROTHER'S WAY" (Romans 14:5-13, see the entire chapter, since it is very instructive regarding all such issues).

If we keep our focus on the Saviour and what His birth, life, death and resurrection mean to each one of us and to this universe, it matters not whether the origin of "Christ-mass" was pagan. God regardeth the heart, so make Christmas a day of worship of the triune Godhead.

Grace and peace be to you all through our Lord Jesus Christ

Sower

"If we keep our focus on the Saviour and what His birth, life, death and resurrection mean to each one of us and to this universe, it matters not whether the origin of "Christ-mass" was pagan. God regardeth the heart, so make Christmas a day of worship of the triune Godhead."


But for the Christian should not this be a 365/24/7 happening?
Not just on so called days appointed by a non biblical church government?

[Tibby]

So what does Christmass mean to me? I believe it's a stench in the nostrils of a Holy God -- Psalm119

You people sicken me. Getting hung up on such pointless issues. Christmas is what you make it. I say SHAME ON YOU for making it a pagan holiday -- Tibby

Greetings to all my brothers and sisters on this Forum. I have been away from this board for many months, and I do regret not being able to communicate with you all.  There were many reasons for my absence. However, the Lord was always in control and He has sustained us and encouraged us. I am sure He has abundantly blessed each one of you day by day, and is continuing to do so.

Regarding the observance of Christmas, there is no question that December 25 was not the date of the birth of our Lord and Saviour, and that it was undoubtedly a pagan festival. When the church of Rome ushered paganism into it's doctrine and practice, Christmas, Easter and many other pagan festivals were given a "Christian" veneer.

At the same time, genuine believers do remember and honour the Lord on this day with genuine worship and praise. So how should we regard Christmas?

Regarding Christmas (or any other "holy" day) the Word of God is quite plain and instructive:

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.  Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it... But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ... So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, THAT NO MAN PUT A STUMBLINGBLOCK OR AN OCCASION TO FALL IN HIS BROTHER'S WAY" (Romans 14:5-13, see the entire chapter, since it is very instructive regarding all such issues).

If we keep our focus on the Saviour and what His birth, life, death and resurrection mean to each one of us and to this universe, it matters not whether the origin of "Christ-mass" was pagan. God regardeth the heart, so make Christmas a day of worship of the triune Godhead.

Grace and peace be to you all through our Lord Jesus Christ

Sower

"If we keep our focus on the Saviour and what His birth, life, death and resurrection mean to each one of us and to this universe, it matters not whether the origin of "Christ-mass" was pagan. God regardeth the heart, so make Christmas a day of worship of the triune Godhead."


But for the Christian should not this be a 365/24/7 happening?
Not just on so called days appointed by a non biblical church government?

Of course! That goes without "non biblical" saying. However, there is so much to praise him for. He lives out side of the "non biblical" time, we, however, do not. When the "non biblical" church government (whatever means) declares a day a day of celebration, doesn't mean we should only worship him on these days. This isn't "non biblical" rocket science I am talking about here. It is a simple enough "non biblical" concept to grasp. This is a "non biblical" time to Celebrate Christ's Birth. Whether on this "non biblical" forum or in "non biblical" real life

Well that sure was fun

[nChrist]

Every day is Christmas!!

Merry Christmas!!

Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT!!

Love in Christ,
Tom

[Berean]

I believe more than any other time of the year the whole world is going berserk!  Really the hardest thing about "Christmas" for me is not so much what the world does (the world doesn't know any better), but what many Christians do.  The church we attend put up a Christmas tree that nearly touches the ceiling.  And that tree is only a few feet from the Lord's Supper Table.  (I am not trying to demean these people.  I love them and worship with them every Sunday).  But where in God's Word does it say to cut a tree, bring it into the church auditorium, decorate it and put it next to the Lord's Table?  What is worse is, what if that tree becomes a stumbling block for someone who is newly saved or isn't saved but might be thinking about it?  What does this have to do with Jesus?

The Bible Study group we attend is having a gift exchange.  It's $5.00 for a man's gift and $5.00 for a woman's gift.  And it might be that the person who receives a gift doesn't want it, can't eat it, or can't use it.  What does this have to do with Jesus?

Two Christmases that I remember the most were days that were spent doing for others.  One year, my husband and I loaded our van and took food that was collected by the church to a Christian children's home that was about seventy miles away. The home needed the food. They were happy we came.  Another year, my husband who was in pulpit ministry at the time and I went to the local nursing home and entertained the people who live there.  The people needed the company.  

Christmas isn't about 'what will I get'?  Christmas, if we even have to have Christmas, is about giving from our hearts to others.  

All the money that is spent on trees, decorations, gifts, gift wrap, ribbon, lights, etc., just think
--how many people who are hungry could be fed,
--how many homes could be found for the homeless,
--how many people could be helped in many other ways?  
I know I am getting carried away.  But Christmas is all give me, give me, give me.  

I believe what Jesus said in Matthew 6:33--"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you."

and
Luke 6:38--"Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, they will pour into your lap.  For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."

and
Acts 4:32--"And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own; but all things were common property to them.
Acts 4:33--"And with great power the apostles were giving witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.
Acts 4:34--"For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would see them and bring the proceeds of the sales,
Acts 4:35--"and lay them at the apostles' feet; and they would be distributed to each, as any had need."
and
Acts 4:36--"And Joseph, a Levite of Cyprian birth, who was also called Barnabas by the apostles (which translated means, Son of Encouragement),
Acts 4:37--"and who owned a tract of land, sold it and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet."

This is Christianity.  Why do we even need "Christmas"?  Christians ought to be about doing the Lord's business; Jesus set the example when He was on the earth.  

In Christ,
Berean

[Tibby]

I believe more than any other time of the year the whole world is going berserk!  Really the hardest thing about "Christmas" for me is not so much what the world does (the world doesn't know any better), but what many Christians do.  The church we attend put up a Christmas tree that nearly touches the ceiling.  And that tree is only a few feet from the Lord's Supper Table.  (I am not trying to demean these people.  I love them and worship with them every Sunday).  But where in God's Word does it say to cut a tree, bring it into the church auditorium, decorate it and put it next to the Lord's Table?  What is worse is, what if that tree becomes a stumbling block for someone who is newly saved or isn't saved but might be thinking about it?  What does this have to do with Jesus?

But where does the bible talk about setting up a designated Lord’s Table? Sounds like more of that “non biblical” stuff Ollie was talking about!

lol j/k


Good stuff, though. Your right, a lot of Churches take this holy time way to far. Well, I lot of Church take the Decor to far anyways. You know, there was such a thing as reverence at one time.

[Whitehorse]

Celebration is not unbiblical or new. In the OT, God commanded Israel to celebrate with joy, with rich foods and drinks. At one point He commanded Israel (on this one particular day, not as a rule) not to cry over their sin because He wanted them to celebrate His generosity and mercy. The rest of the year is for mourning. This day was for rejoicing.

Giving gifts doesn't mean someone isn't focusing on Christ. Christmas isn't a day of fasting or staring at the ceiling repeating His name. To focus on CHrist means to live out what He taught us. It means to love, to have joy (which is a gift of the Holy Spirit) , and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

Here's an example from real life.

Person A sent person B a Christmas card. It was gold foil, it had a bell and angel on it, and the pre-printed message was to have a joyous holiday season. Person A wrote a Christ-centered message inside, and sent it with love.

Person B sent back a folded piece of paper with the drawn imprint of a baby's foot, and a nail on the inside. The perceived message was, it doesn't matter how beautiful the card is. What matters is what it says about Christ.

Person A's response was, "But I sent mine in Christian love. And I received in return a Christ-centered condemnation."

Don't get me wrong-I think Christ should be the center of everything we do, and the decorations should point to Him and it should be in our conversation.

But sometimes I think we worry more about the outward manifestations than we do the inner spirit. Focusing on Christ means loving Him to other people.

If a poor person feels pressured to spend too much for gifts on a credit card because of what we buy for him, we are no longer acting in love. But to enjoy the celebration: what a somber God we would have if He condemned us for adding joy and festivity to the celebration of His name.

It's when Christ truly *isn't* the focus that I think we need to worry.

[Symphony]

It's when Christ truly *isn't* the focus that I think we need to worry.


But what does THAT mean?  

For me it means minimizing outward activity--that is, all the festivities.

Still, I do *some* of it.  And I enjoy seeing others participating in it.  I enjoy Christmas music, Handel's Messiah.

I think your first post(Dec. 5) above comes closest, for me.  

[Symphony]

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't like Christmas at all.  

Seriously, I think it's all just a bunch of stupid, sugary sweet sentimentality, that gets people who don't have anyone to celebrate with all whooped up in their own misery.

I think Paul's warnings about his keeping of calendar days, in Galatians, is right on.

So I'm sounding like a Jehovah's Witness here.  But no, if others around me are doing it, fine.  If they invite me to participate, I'll participate.  

But I won't initiate or all that stuff.

Signed,

The Grinch.    (hehe)

   

[Whitehorse]

Spending the holidays alone is very difficult. I know-I've done it before, too. And I'm really sorry this is the case for you. I wish there was something I could do to make it easier-I really do.