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16  Theology / Debate / Acts 2:38 REMISSION on: March 26, 2012, 04:49:41 AM
Acts 2:38 (King James Version)


 Then Peter said unto them,



Repent,

and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ

for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.




Previously, I felt it necessary to put the discussion of Acts 2:38 vs Matt 28:19 on a back burner so that we could focus on the difference between Salvation, and being Born Again!



Now, I feel it is necessary to keep the discussion of Acts 2:38 vs Matt 28:19 on a back burner so that we could focus on the difference between Forgiveness and Remission!





Acts 2:38 (New Living Translation, Second Edition)


) Peter replied,



“Each of you must repent of your sins, turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to show that you have received forgiveness for your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Several of the newer translations render the word as Forgiveness rather than Remission!






Greek Strong's Number: 859

Greek Word: ἄφεσις

Transliteration: aphesis

Phonetic Pronunciation:af'-es-is

Root: from <G863>

Cross Reference: TDNT - 1:50 9,88

Part of Speech: n f

Vine's Words: Deliver, Deliverance, Deliverer, Forgive, Forgave, Forgiveness, Liberty, Remission, Remit

 
Usage Notes:
 

English Words used in KJV:

remission 9
forgiveness 6
deliverance 1
liberty 1
[Total Count: 17]

 

from <G863> (aphiemi); freedom; (figurative) pardon :- deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.


Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.



In the Greek, Forgiveness and Remission  both have a common root, but in the English, their meanings are quite different!

Extracted fron American Heritage Dictionary and Thesarus

for·give (f…r-gΉv“, fτr-) v. for·gave (-g³v“), for·giv·en (-gΉv“…n), for·giv·ing, for·gives. --tr. 1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon. 2. To renounce anger or resentment against. 3. To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example). --intr. To accord forgiveness. --for·giv“a·ble adj. --for·giv“a·bly adv. --for·giv“er n.



1. (v.) To free from a charge or imputation of guilt:
   • absolve
    • acquit
    • cleanse
    • clear
    • exculpate
    • excuse
    • exonerate
    • pardon
    • purge (law)
    • vindicate
    • convict (antonym)



re·mit (rΉ-mΉt“) v. re·mit·ted, re·mit·ting, re·mits. --tr. 1. To transmit (money) in payment. 2.a. To refrain from exacting (a tax or penalty, for example); cancel. b. To pardon; forgive. 3. To restore to a former condition or position. 4. Law. a. To refer (a case) to another court for further consideration or action. b. To refer (a matter) to a committee or an authority for decision. 5. To allow to slacken. 6. To desist from; give up. 7. To put off; postpone. --intr. 1. To transmit money. 2. To diminish; abate. --re·mit (rΉ-mΉt“, r¶“mΉt) n. 1. The act of remitting, especially the referral of a case to another court. 2. A matter remitted for further consideration. --re·mit“ment n. --re·mit“ta·ble adj. --re·mit“ter n.

1. (v.) To reduce in tension, pressure, or rigidity:
    • slacken
    • let go
    • ease up
    • let up
    • loosen
    • mitigate
    • moderate
    • relax
    • slack
    • slack up on
    • go limp
    • soften
    • loose
    • ease off
    • tighten (antonym)
2. (v.) To put off until a later time:
    • postpone
    • defer
    • stonewall
    • adjourn
    • delay
    • hold off
    • hold over
    • hold up on
    • lay over
    • prorogue
    • put
    • put off
    • put on hold
    • put on ice (colloquial)
    • put over
    • respite
    • shelve
    • stay
    • table (US)




re·mis·sion (rΉ-mΉsh“…n) n. 1.a. The act of remitting. b. A condition or period in which something is remitted. 2. A lessening of intensity or degree; abatement. 3.a. Medicine. Abatement or subsiding of the symptoms of a disease. b. The period during which the symptoms of a disease abate or subside. 4.a. Release, as from a debt, a penalty, or an obligation. b. Forgiveness; pardon.

1. (n.) The act or an instance of forgiving:
    • forgiveness
    • absolution
    • clemency
    • mercy
    • amnesty
    • condonation
    • excuse
    • indulgence
    • overlooking
    • pardon
    • shrift (archaic)
    • unforgiveness (antonym)
    • condemnation (antonym)
2. (n.) A giving up of a possession, claim, or right:
    • relinquishment
    • abdication
    • abandonment
    • abjuration
    • cession
    • forgoing
    • renunciation
    • resignation
    • surrender
    • waiver
3. (n.) Temporary immunity from penalties:
    • reprieve
    • extension
    • freeze
    • grace
    • stay
    • suspension
4. (n.) The condition of being temporarily inactive:
    • dormancy
    • abeyance
    • intermission
    • latency
    • quiescence
    • suspension
    • idleness
    • activity (antonym)
    • movement (antonym)







17  Theology / Debate / Re: Acts 2:38 SALVATION on: March 26, 2012, 03:07:19 AM
In reply # 2,  I made the following comments,


Born Again?



One of the most common errors in the Church

is to equate the term Salvation

with being Born Again! [/b]
[/color]
 


Salvation is an essential prelude to that experience, but it is improper to use the two terms interchangeably! You may be Delivered, Healed, Rescued, Preserved, or made Whole, without experiencing the events we call: Conversion, Transformation, Regeneration, or the Renewal of our Minds! Within the Church there are a multitude of empty vessels that have been cleansed, repaired, and made ready for use, but they are still empty vessels! They will be of little use to God until they become filled with His Spirit!





In reply #3  nChrist responds,





 Re: Acts 2:38 SALVATION
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 05:58:00 AM »   



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John 3:3-7 KJV  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.  4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?  5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.  6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.  7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:18-23 KJV  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;  19  But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:  20  Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,  21  Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.  22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:  23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


So thank you Brother Tom for your response,



So, WHAT"S YOUR POINT?  What are you really trying to say?



The "BALL" is in your Court!



Please Respond?



Your Brother in Christ



Hugh MANN





James 1:18 (King James Version)


Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.




1 Peter 1:3-5 (King James Version)


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

18  Theology / Debate / Re: Acts 2:38 SALVATION on: March 25, 2012, 02:02:00 AM
Healing

In addition to being our Deliverer, Jesus is also our Healer! Jesus did a Total Work! Jesus did a finished Work! Prior to going to the Cross, Jesus was scourged with a Cat of Nine Tails! This was nine whips on one handle. Woven into each of the nine leather lashes were bits of broken bone, and jagged metal! Each of these lashes had a lead weight woven into it's tip, and when it struck, it was traveling at near supersonic speeds! When it struck, it would literally peel the hide off of a man! The customary scourging was 39 strokes! This was the equivalent of 351 strokes with a single whip!


1 Peter 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree,

that we, being dead to sins,

should live unto righteousness:

by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

As with our previous discussion on deliverance, this word for healing is not one of the five root words that are translated as saved, but again it is synonymous with some, but not all of the meanings of Save! This provision for our Healing was prophesied hundreds of years before it became a reality!


Isaiah 53:5

"... and with his stripes we are healed."


 

Sickness and Death entered into this world as a by-product of Sin! On the Cross, Jesus became a "Garbage Can" upon whom all of the sins of the Human Race was dumped! Jesus did more than just bare all of our sins, He took care of all of the by-products of sin at the same time! This included all of the Shame and Degradation, all of the Sickness and Disease, and all of the Cares of this life as well! Man is body, soul, and spirit, and Jesus made total provisions for the total person!

 

In many instances,

a spiritual, or psychological condition

will manifest itself as a physical affliction!

 

Just like dandelions, you can cut the flowers forever, but until you dig out the root, the flowers will keep coming back! For many physical afflictions, an inner healing is necessary first!

 


Being made Whole in body, soul, and spirit

is part of out Born Again Birthright!


 

Jesus paid the price for all of our physical afflictions, as well for our sins! If we do not claim the fullness of our inheritance, it is not his fault, but ours!

 

Health

In addition to making provision for our Healings, God has given us his Laws as a way to stay healthy! The Mosaic Law spells out in detail those animals that were considered to be unclean, and forbidden for consumption. Whether or not, we as Christians, are bound to observe a Kosher Diet, or whether or not we are Spiritually defiled by eating any of these unclean foods is not the issue, rather it becomes a matter of exercising good judgement and common sense to avoid foods that are high in cholesterol, or animals that are scavengers, or carrion eaters!


 

Preserved

Another concept included in the term Salvation is that of being Preserved. A pickle is a preserved cucumber. The pickle will last indefinitely, while the Cucumber will begin to perish shortly after it is removed from the vine!


 

Born Again?

 

One of the most common errors in the Church

is to equate the term Salvation

with being Born Again!

 

Salvation is an essential prelude to that experience, but it is improper to use the two terms interchangeably! You may be Delivered, Healed, Rescued, Preserved, or made Whole, without experiencing the events we call: Conversion, Transformation, Regeneration, or the Renewal of our Minds! Within the Church there are a multitude of empty vessels that have been cleansed, repaired, and made ready for use, but they are still empty vessels! They will be of little use to God until they become filled with His Spirit!

 

Conclusion

In the final analysis it is important to remember that God loves all of us! He wants each of us to rise to our highest potential, and claim the fullness of our Holy Heritage! As we interact with one another, it is important not to condemn others because they have not yet attained unto the same level of Spiritual Maturity, and understanding, as we have! The flip side of this is that we should not disregard the possibility that others have risen to a higher level than we have, and are operating in Spiritual Realms that we know little, or nothing about!


 

It would be wrong to condemn a child, simply for being a child, however, children are expected to eventually grow up! If a person has reached an age of physical maturity, but is still wearing diapers, and speaking gibberish, would be a sure indication that something is wrong!

 


Spiritual Maturity is not measured by how long ago a person made their Profession of Faith, but rather by how much of God’s Word they have assimilated, and begun to act upon! It would be wrong for a child to desire to remain a child all of it’s days! It would be equally wrong for those who are have been placed in leadership positions to hinder the Spiritual Growth and development of those people over whose souls they are charged to give watch!

 


It would be equally wrong

to recognize such a situation

and remain silent about it!


 

Each of us should reach out our hand in Love, to assist others in their Spiritual Growth and Maturity! If by chance, someone reaches out their hand to us, we should have the courtesy to investigate the situation, and determine for ourselves,


"Is the Grass really Greener,

on the other side of the fence?"


 

As I have mentioned earlier,

The Lord did not call me

to Shut Up the Kingdom of God to any man!

 

Rather,

He sent me to open those Gates

as wide as possible,

so that whosoever will,

may enter in!

Conclusion

We have previously discussed that the Name of Jesus in the Hebrew is Yeshu'a, which translates directly into English as Joshua! The Literal interpretation of this name means, The Lord My Savior, or the Salvation of God!


 

Matthew 1:21

And she shall bring forth a son,

and thou shalt call his name JESUS:

for he shall save his people from their sins.


 

Jesus is very properly named! For indeed he delivers, or rescues us from our sins! He is our way of escape! Even though we have "Super Refined" the term Salvation to that of Deliverance, we must not lose sight of the other meanings of the word in the Greek Language!


 

Jesus is our Savior, Deliverer, Rescuer, Preserver, Healer, and the One who makes us Whole! Moreover, there are many other words in the Greek Language, that are synonymous with these alternate definitions, and are used in the Scriptures that positively identify Jesus in each of these roles!


 

The Bottom Line,

"When you say Jesus,

you have said it all!"


 

19  Theology / Debate / Re: Acts 2:38 SALVATION on: March 25, 2012, 01:51:48 AM
Salvation


A Rose is a Rose is a Rose!


 

A Rose by Any Other Name

Would Still Smell Just as Sweet!
[/b][/size][/size]

 

You can't make a Silk Purse

out of a Sow's Ear!

 

Many of the divisions within the Church are centered on the requirements for Salvation! This is due, in part, because of the meaning of the word! Many Opinions on the subject have been expressed, and many Doctrines have been formulated based upon man's understanding of the word Salvation as it used in their Native Translations, without giving heed to the meaning of the word as it was delivered in the Original Language texts! Because of this, many people are using the word Save, or Salvation to express concepts that are not entirely accurate! Even though the whole world referred to a cow as a frog, cows would still be cows, and frogs would still be frogs!


 

As we seek to Rightly Divide the Word of Truth, we must remember that one word in the Hebrew, or Greek Languages, may have several different interpretations, any, or all of which may apply! The reverse is also true! One word in English, may have several different renderings in Hebrew or Greek!



As we consider all that God has for us, many events may seem to happen simultaneously, or in such rapid succession that they seem simultaneous! This is one of the reasons that the word for salvation is so misused!

 

Too often people will try to make the Scriptures conform to their own personal experience, (or lack thereof), rather than making their personal experience conform to the Scriptures! Some people will try to lump a multitude of events under one label!


 

Each person's experience is unique! God has allowed some flexibility because of this. One person may experience these events in a different order of succession from someone else! I believe that it is vitally important that every believer receive all that God has for them!


 

If we attempt to lump all these events into one container, and call that container Salvation, someone might not receive all that God has for them, yet be deceived into believing that they had! We should not seek to oversimplify, nor overcomplicate the Gospel! However to avoid Doctrinal Errors, it is essential that we call each event by it's proper name, and only by it's proper name! It is not my place to sit in judgement over another person's Salvation experience! They were there when it happened, they know exactly what happened to them, however they might not have experienced all that God has made available, and be lulled into a false sense of security, by someone else's attempt to oversimplify the Gospel!


 

There are five different root words in the Greek language that are translated into English as Save, Saved, Saving, or Salvation! In addition there is one other word that is translated as "except," which is not relevant to this conversation!


 

The following definitions have been extracted from Strong's Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, which is part of his Exhaustive Concordance!


4982.  sozo, sode´-zo; from a primary sw`" sos (contr. for obs. savo" saos, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (lit. or fig.):— heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

 

4990.  soter, so-tare´; from 4982; a deliverer, i.e. God or Christ:— saviour.

4991.  soteria, so-tay-ree´-ah; fem. of a der. of 4990 as (prop. abstr.) noun; rescue or safety (phys. or mor.):— deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

4992. soterion, so-tay´-ree-on; neut. of the same as 4991 as (prop. concr.) noun; defender or (by impl.) defence:— salvation.

 

1295.  diasozo, dee-as-odze´-o; from 1223 and 4982; to save thoroughly, i.e. (by impl. or anal.) to cure, preserve, rescue, etc.:— bring safe, escape (safe), heal, make perfectly whole, save.

 

These five words say a lot,

yet they still leave a lot unsaid!

 

Let's consider first what they do say!
[/b]


 

Deliverance

Compare Acts 2:21 & Romans 10:13 with Joel 2:32. Both Peter And Paul quoted this Prophesy from Joel, yet we see differences in the translations from Hebrew to English, and from Greek to English!


 

4422. malat, maw-lat’; a prim. root; prop. to be smooth, i.e. (by impl.) to escape (as if by slipperiness); caus. to release or rescue; spec. to bring forth young, emit sparks:— deliver (self), escape, lay, leap out, let alone, let go, preserve, save, × speedily, × surely.


 

As we recognize that both Peter, and Paul quoted the same verse from Joel, we can Super-Refine the "Intent" of the of the word "Saved" at least as it is used in the Context of those passages cited!


 

By eliminating all of the Hebrew and Greek Definitions, which are not shared jointly, we can safely surmise that the Primary Intent of the word "saved," as it is used in the context of those specific passages is limited to Deliverance, Escape, Rescue, or being Preserved! However, this does not negate the other alternative definitions of Salvation!


 

As we consider the concept of deliverance, we can use the example of the delivery boy who delivers a Pizza from the store, to our home! It is easy enough to visualize the two phases of Deliverance! What we are delivered from, and what we are delivered unto!


 

Colossians 1:13

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,

and hath translated us

into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[/b][/size][/size]
 

This application of the word delivered is not the same as any of the five words that are translated as the various forms of save. This application is specifically limited to Escape, or Rescue, as it's interpretation of delivered! This application of delivered is synonymous with some, but not all of the meanings of Save! As we consider the two phases of Deliverance, we first must realize where we have escaped, or been rescued from, and then where we have been delivered or translated unto!

 

As we look at the example set by the Nation of Israel, God used Moses to deliver Israel's descendants out of Egyptian Bondage! Once they had crossed through the Red Sea, they were safe, they were free, they were no longer slaves to the Egyptians! Sadly, with the exception of Joshua and Caleb, that entire generation perished in the wilderness, because of their unbelief! They would not enter into their Promised Land when given the opportunity! As Moses delivered them out of Egypt, it was Joshua who delivered the Next Generation into the Promised Land!

 

It is interesting to note that Jesus and Joshua shared the same Hebrew Name!

That Name is Yeshu'a!


 

Much of the Church is like Israel in the Wilderness, they have been delivered out of the Power of Satanic Bondage, but they have not yet entered into their Promised Land! Just because we are no longer under the taskmaster's whip, and are partakers of the Heavenly Manna, is no reason to be lulled into a false sense of security!


 

We may have taken a step in the right direction, but until we cross over Jordan, we will not inherit the Kingdom of God, which is our Promised Land!


 

( Author's note, Crossing over Jordan in not a reference to going to Heaven when we are Graveyard Dead, rather it is a reference to entering into a New Dimension of Spiritual Living, as we go beyond Deliverance, and step into the realm of the New Birth)!


 

Within some Churches today, the term deliverance is equated with Exorcism, which is the casting out of evil or unclean spirits! As Jesus drove the Merchants and Moneychangers from the Temple, even so, the Temples of our Bodies must be cleansed from every Satanic influence! The cleansing of our body, soul, and spirit are an essential part of Deliverance, but the process is far from complete!


 

Jesus taught that the unclean spirit, when it is cast out, will walk through dry places seeking rest! When it finds no rest elsewhere, it will return to whoever it came out of, and finding the house all cleansed and decorated, it will reenter, and bring several even worse than itself! In this manner, the latter end is worse than the beginning! Anytime a vacuum is created, something will seek to fill up that Vacuum! In order to prevent the reentry of the evil spirits, it is necessary to fill up that Void!

 

To fill that void, we need the Laws of God written on the Tables of our Heart, His Word hidden in our Hearts, and His Spirit seated upon the Mercy Seat, which is beyond the Veil, within the Realm of our Innermost Being!

Any time the devils come knocking,

Let the Spirit of Christ answer the Door!

[/b]

 

20  Theology / Debate / Acts 2:38 SALVATION on: March 25, 2012, 01:30:33 AM
On March 11, 2006 the Colonel posted

 
 Acts 2:38 Baptism in Jesus Name
« on: March 11, 2006, 05:45:58 PM »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a simple question and that is, in the book of Acts the only mode or formula used for baptism was in the Name of Jesus Christ, my question is why is  not this the formula used throughout christianiity today?


A short while later Soldier4Christ responded,

God Bless in Jesus Name



 

 Re: Acts 2:38 Baptism in Jesus Name
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2006, 06:25:17 PM »  



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As in most such things men tend to go their own way.





In my opinion, this is the best answer given!

 

As I survey the rest of the replies posted, I am amazed at the lengths that some people will go to try and twist the intent of Acts 2:38 just because it does not fit conveniently into their own Creed or Personal Theology!

 

Of those who posted replies in this thread the first thing that I would ask each of you,

 

Has any one of you actually been Baptized in the Name of Jesus?

 

If Not, How then can you speak with Authority on this subject?
[/size][/size][/color]

 

 

Some might respond that they Speak with the Authority of the Written Word as the Holy Spirit Illuminates their Understanding!

 

This would be an excellent answer except that everybody else can also make the same claim!


 

Nobody seems to be on the same sheet of music and it is obvious that the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself!

 

While trying to remain humble, let me state that I have been Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ, therefore, I can speak with the Authority based upon 35 years of personal experience!

 

It is my intention to reopen this thread and shed some additional light on this very controversial subject!

 

 However, before I can do that, I feel the necessity to clear up a language problem!

 

The term Saved, Salvation, Savior, etc, is highly abused!  Most professing believers don't know the meaning of the word in Hebrew and Greek and to further complicate the situation, they will then try to formulate their Doctrines of SOTEROLOGY based upon their own limited experience, or even worse, their total lack of experience!

 Your Brother In Christ

Hugh Mann

 

21  Theology / Debate / Re: Who has to repent ? on: March 17, 2012, 11:07:20 PM
Acts 11:13-18 (King James Version)


And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Hello Dan P

 

Acts 11:18  is just another in a long list of Scriptures showing the need for Gentiles (including yourself) to Repent!

 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version)


. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;

and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works,

lest any man should boast. [/b]



Now I am about to share something which might cause you to rethink your Twisted Theology!


 

You are not SAVED BY GRACE!

 

Rather

 

IT IS BY GRACE THAT YOU ARE SAVED!

 

[center]YOU ARE SAVED BY A SAVIOR

AND HIS NAME IS

THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!

[/center]
 


SO HARKEN UNTO HIS WORDS!
[/b][/b][/b]
 

 

Luke 13:2-5 (King James Version)


3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.



JESUS THOUGHT IT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO SAY IT TWICE!

 

Matthew 7:21-23 (King James Version)


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

HE THAT HATH EARS TO HEAR,

LET HIM HEAR!

 


Brother Hugh MANN

 

By the way,

Sulphur, (Brimstone) burns in excess of 450 degrees F.

 

HAVE a NICE DAY!

22  Theology / Debate / WHY COME TO CHURCH? on: March 17, 2012, 03:28:23 PM
Why Come to Church?

==============


Why are the Saints commanded thusly?



Hebrews 10:25

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,

as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another:

and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


 

Is it to hear the Reading of the Written Word?


They can read it for themselves at Home!
[/b]

 

Is it to hear the Preaching of the Word?


They can turn on their Televisions and hear that

24 hours a day?


 

Is it to hear the Exposition of the Word?


They can go to any Christian Bookstore,

and buy the same Reference Volumes the preacher has!

 

Is it to Praise and Worship the Lord?


you can do that anywhere!

 

Is it to Pray?


You can do that anywhere except in a Public School!


 

What is the one thing about being gathered together, that you cannot do just as well, alone at home? And the answer is,


"Be Gathered Together!"


 [/b]

 

Jesus Said in Matthew 18:20


For where two or three are gathered together

in my name,

there am I in the midst of them.


 

You can have a thousand people jammed into a tiny room, and none of them be "gathered together!"



There is something more required

than just being in the same physical location!


Acts 2:1

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come,

they were all with one accord in one place.

Acts 2:44,46

And all that believed were together,

and had all things common;

And they, continuing daily

with one accord in the temple,


Acts 4:32

And the multitude of them that believed

were of one heart and of one soul:
[/b]
 

1 Corinthians 1:10

Now I beseech you, brethren,

by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,

that ye all speak the same thing,

and that there be no divisions among you;

but that ye be perfectly joined together

in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

1 Peter 3:8-9

Finally, be ye all of one mind,

having compassion one of another,

love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing:

but contrariwise blessing;

knowing that ye are thereunto called,

that ye should inherit a blessing.


John 17:21

That they all may be one;

as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee,

that they also may be one in us:

that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;

that they may be one, even as we are one:

I in them, and thou in me,

that they may be made perfect in one;

and that the world may know that thou hast sent me,

and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
[/b]
 

This is the Secret of Revival, this is the Power of Pentecost! It is when the Saints of God, assemble themselves together as one Body, Linking themselves into a "Hive Mentality," that things begin to happen!


 

When we achieve this "Collective Unity," When all have only one Heart and Soul between them, this is when they are of "one accord!" This is when they truly become one with each other!

This is when the Head of the Body can become ONE with the Body of the Body!
 

It is then that Jesus will manifest Himself within the Body, and the Members of the Body will begin to spiritually minister to each other's needs!

 

"This Is What Having Church Is All About!"


 

Jesus does not call his Ministers to become a one man show! It seems that the only time that the Local Churches are on the "same sheet of music" is when they are singing the same Hymn!


 

If you cannot gather together in "collective unity"

truly becoming One with one another,

then you might as well stay home and watch Television!
[/b]

 

This is part of what attaining unto

"The measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,"

Is All About!
[/b]

 

When we begin to fully understand what First Corinthians Chapter 12 is all about, we begin to realize that some Manifestation of the Spirit, is given to every member of the Body of Christ! These Spiritual Gifts are given to individuals, but they belong to the entire Church, and are for the benefit of the entire Church.


 

Ephesians 4:16

From whom the whole body fitly joined together

and compacted by that which every joint supplieth,

according to the effectual working in the measure of every part,

maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


 

Ephesians 4:16 NIV

From Him the whole body,

joined and held together by every supporting ligament,

grows and builds itself up in love,

as each part does it work!


 

It is the purpose of the Fivefold Ministry, to help each of us discover what our Spiritual Gift is, then train us how to use that Gift! When the Body assembles itself together, it is so that every member of the Body, can minister in love, to every other member of the Body!


 

This Is What Having Church Is All About!


 

 Your Brother in Christ

Hugh



[/b]
23  Theology / Debate / Are the Pentecostal Signs Being Restored? on: March 17, 2012, 03:04:17 PM
 Re: Are the Pentecostal Signs Being Restored?
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2009, 03:28:47 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: I Love Jesus on May 22, 2009, 02:36:03 AM
 
Mt. 18:19 "Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask it will be done for them by the Father in heaven.
                for where two or more are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

                    In other words all we have to do is agree with another person that what we are asking for is good and in accordance
with what Jesus taught us.
        It doesn't really matter if we"re going to heaven or hell.
       And it goes without saying the Father's name will still be glorified.

               


Wrong! One needs a basic start in trying to understand the Bible, knowing who the speaker is, knowing the intended audience, understanding the historical setting, understanding the purpose, etc., etc., etc. Taking a Bible Verse out of context and trying to form a doctrine results in a gross misunderstanding of the Holy Bible, especially if one forming that doctrine is lost or is a baby Christian with little or no knowledge of the Holy Bible. These false doctrines also hurt the Lord's Work because they aren't true and don't work. As an example, you aren't an Apostle directly appointed by God, and God has NOT given you any supernatural powers. The office of Apostle was closed by God almost 2,000 years ago, and that's the time that you're trying to talk about.

The Holy Bible also talks about people being able to drink poison and bit by deadly snakes without being hurt. DON'T TRY IT! You aren't one of the people God was talking to, nor will you be.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 2:16 ASV  in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
 

**************************


Tom,
 
Since the last reply to this thread was back in 2009,  I thought it best to start a new thread!
 
I agree that I LOVE JESUS was wrong, (even among the NAME IT AND CLAIM IT CROWD, his conclusions are a bit extreme)!
 
There is unlimited POWER and AUTHORITY in the name of JESUS, but the seven sons of Sceva learned the hard way that there are interlocks in place to prevent unauthorized usage of the NAME!  see Acts 19:13-16
 
I also agree with what you have said about RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH,
 
Wrong! One needs a basic start in trying to understand the Bible, knowing who the speaker is, knowing the intended audience, understanding the historical setting, understanding the purpose, etc., etc., etc. Taking a Bible Verse out of context and trying to form a doctrine results in a gross misunderstanding of the Holy Bible, especially if one forming that doctrine is lost or is a baby Christian with little or no knowledge of the Holy Bible. These false doctrines also hurt the Lord's Work because they aren't true and don't work.
 
 Then you continued,
 
As an example, you aren't an Apostle directly appointed by God, and God has NOT given you any supernatural powers.
 
How could you possibly know that?Huh??
In this case, it might be a safe bet, however, this statement is not based on any possible knowledge of  the person calling theirself  I LOVE JESUS or of what God has appointed him to be, rather, this statement is based upon your own beliefs and interpretations as a CESSATIONIST, and also as an ULTRADISPENSATIONALIST. which is just another word for BULLINGERISM!
 
The office of Apostle was closed by God almost 2,000 years ago, and that's the time that you're trying to talk about.


Mt. 18:19 "Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask it will be done for them by the Father in heaven.
                for where two or more are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."


Your line of reasoning seems to be, "This statement was made only to His DISCIPLES, (who would soon become APOSTLES), but since there are no more APOSTLES, this PROMISE made by JESUS does not apply to the CHURCH today!
 
Your line of reasoning also seems to be,  "This statement was made during the Dispensation of the LAW, but it speaks of the Dispensation of the KINGDOM, (Pentecost to Paul), but the Church is now in the Dispensation of GRACE (MYSTERY), so again this PROMISE made by JESUS does not apply to the CHURCH today!
 
 Then you closed with the following,
 
The Holy Bible also talks about people being able to drink poison and bit by deadly snakes without being hurt. DON'T TRY IT! You aren't one of the people God was talking to, nor will you be.

 
Discussion,

Christians are notorious for reading someone elses' mail and then trying to claim the promises made to someone else, at a different time, under a different set of circumstances!

 Malachi 3:8-12,  Philippians 4:19  Matthew 6:25-34 are some classic examples of this!

However,

Your rejection of I LOVE JESUS' interpretation is for the wrong reasons, and essentially you are  THROWING OUT  THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER! Matthew 18:19 is valid even today and has nothing to do with Apostleship and Dispensations! It has everything to do with what happens when the the Body of Christ assembles itself together,  And  It has everything to do with understanding the difference between the Perfect Will of God and the Permissive Will of God!
 
 I will continue this later,

Your Brother in Christ

Hugh
24  Fellowship / Witnessing / Give Your Heart To Jesus! on: March 09, 2012, 11:42:32 PM
Give Your Heart To Jesus

 

Back during the mid 70's my parents moved from Mobile Alabama, to North Highlands California, (Near Sacramento). and not long afterward my mother began to teach Sunday School in the local Bapt6ist Church!

 
 During her tenure as a Sunday School Teacher she was well loved and respected by all of her students!  That is, all but one of her students!

 
 It seems that there was one little girl (of pre-school age). who had come for a few weeks and now was not coming any more!  A Thursday evening visitation team was sent to investigate why, and it seems that the little girl was terrified of my mother, believing that my mother wanted to cut her heart out!   Probing a little further it was discovered that my Mother's exact words had been "Give Your Heart To Jesus!"

 

 The Visitation Team then explained that it was not the organ that pumps blood that my Mother was referring to, then continued to explain about letting Jesus Come Into Your Heart!  To make a long story short, the little girl understood the explanation, and realizing that she had nothing to fear, promised to start coming to Sunday School again!



A few days later the Pastor came by and explained all that had happened!  My Mother was totally embarrassed, but the Pastor in a loving way explained that she was no longer living in the Heart of the Bible Belt, and that most of the local population had little or no reliigeous training and would not know when to distinguish between what was literal, and what was figurative!

 

He then assured Mom that she had nothing to be ashamed of, but in the future she should be a little more cautious about her choice of words!

 

 I tell this story simply to emphasize the point that as we interact with the World, or with each other, we should keep it Scriptural, and we should keep it simple!





 Romans 14:16 (King James Version)


Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[/b]



Your Brother in Christ



Hugh MANN
25  Theology / Apologetics / Re: Who Can Forgive Sins on: March 06, 2012, 10:31:11 PM
Hello Brother nChrist,



Thank you for your response, even if you choose to disagree with me!



That is one of the things which make our Country GREAT!  Anyone can express their OPINION  without having to worry about the GESTAPO beating down their door!



However, since you offered no Scriptures in justification of your response, I an forced to classify your response as nothing but a PERSONAL OPINION, and you know what they say about Opinions,



"OPINIONS are like BELLY BUTTONS,

EVERYBODY HAS ONE!"
[/b][/size][/size]


Quote nChrist



I don't have the time or desire to argue this with you.





My Response



God Forbid that a small difference of opinion should escalate into a full scale argument!



The Body of Christ is never edified when professing believers take the Sword of the Spirit and slice each other to ribbons!



We can Earnestly Contend for the Faith

without becoming CONTENTIOUS!



We can discuss our Differences in Doctrine

without being DOGMATIC!



With any difference of opinion,

LOGIC and REASON should prevail,

as we seek to Rightly Divide the Word of Truth!



PERSONAL OPINIONS are of little Value!




Is this not why this, and other Forums exist?







nChrist,



Since you have neither the time, nor the desire to argue this matter, I would suggest that you go back and review the responsibilities of being a King and a Priest unto God!  In the meantime, I hold fast to the integrity of what I have previously posted and will defend it with any who are willing to DISCUSS, (not Argue) the matter!



once again,  Thank You for Your Response!



Your Brother in Christ



Hugh MANN

26  Theology / Apologetics / Who Can Forgive Sins on: March 06, 2012, 07:37:35 AM

Note!

This is intended as a reply to a rebuttal made by JUDGE NOT to a posting made by JABEZ  "Was Jesus God?"

I'm new to this site and didn't see any way to respond in a more direct manner!


It seems strange responding to a rebuttal that was posted Jan 12, 2004, but with such a flagrant disregard for the TRUTH, I cannot in good conscience, sit back and remain silent!  As JUDGE  NOT seeks to prove the Divinity of Christ he states,

 

Another example – only God can forgive sins.  Jesus forgives sins.  Thus, again, Jesus is God.
[/b]
 

Sadly, this line of reasoning has more holes in it than a fishnet, for it is built upon the false assumption that only God can forgive sins,  therefore any conclusions built upon this false assumption will not be valid!

 

who can forgive sins but God only?


 The Bible does not say this, or even imply it!

 

HuhHuhHuh But what about Mark 2:7

 

Mark 2:7 (King James Version)


Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies?

who can forgive sins but God only?

[/b]


 
If we would look at this in it's proper context,  in verse 6 we learn that it was certain Scribes who reasoned this within their hearts!  Jesus perceived these thoughts and responded appropriately, proving that He,  as the Son of man, hath power on earth to forgive sins!  See verse 10

 

 Consider Also,



Matthew 6:12 (King James Version)


 
And forgive us our debts,

as we forgive our debtors.

see also Luke 11:4



Of all that is contained within the "Lord's Prayer"  the only portion that the Lord places added emphasis on is


Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)


For if ye forgive men their trespasses,

your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses,

neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
[/b]
[/b][/b]





Matthew 18:35 (King James Version)
 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


Mark 11:25 (King James Version)
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.


Mark 11:26 (King James Version)
 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


Luke 17:4 (King James Version)
 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.



Matthew 16:19 (King James Version)


 
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

 and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


John 20:20-23 (King James Version)


 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


The remission or retention of sins are but specific applications of Binding and Loosing and it is something that is given to every member of the Body of Christ, and not just to a few Apostles, Bishops, and other types of Clergy Persons!


Conclusion,



I firmly believe in the Divinity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but to try and prove this this based on a faulty line of reasoning does not edify the Body of Christ or advance the Kingdom of God!



Your Brother in Christ



Hugh MANN

27  Welcome / About You! / About Me???????????? on: March 05, 2012, 07:29:48 PM
Without being overly modest, let me say,

It is Not about Me,
It's ALL About Jesus!

I am just His humble servant!

I am 68 years old, a retired soldier, have held Ministerial Credentials in the past, but never bothered to renew them!  It is not the same thing as a drivers license!

I was raised as a Baptist but never really "SAVED" until I had my own personal Pentecostal Experience!

If I have any axes to grind, or personal agendas, it would be,

False Prophets, and Blind Leaders of the Blind who exploit God's People and lead them astray, and secondly, complacent Christians who are living far below their entitlements as the Children of God!

I look forward to interacting with all of you,

Your Brother in Christ

Hugh MANN








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