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282908 Posts in 27488 Topics by 3790 Members
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1  Theology / Debate / Re: Can sins be Remitted ?? on: December 14, 2010, 08:15:01 AM
...the so-called Great Commission of Matt 28:19 .
I suppose it's okay to call it the "Great Commission," so long as we realize that the GREATER Commission is found in Second Corinthians 5:20 :

            Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2  Theology / Debate / Darkened sun/moon to blood occurs TWICE??? on: December 13, 2010, 07:31:58 PM
An adjunct to the belief in a rapture prior to the beginning of Daniel's seventieth week is the teaching that the seventieth week is synonymous with the Day of the Lord. This leads to the inescapable conclusion that the darkening of the sun and the turning of the moon to blood must occur twice.

Prophecies of the first occurrence start in Isaiah and continue through Joel and Acts:

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isaiah 13:9,10

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel 2:31

Peter quotes Joel:

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Acts 2:20

The second occurrence is prophesied in Revelation:

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Revelation 6:12

This second occurrence is also referenced in the Olivet Discourse:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:29

Joel makes it very clear that an occurrence precedes the seventieth week (the Day of the Lord), while the Matthew and Revelation passages indicate a second occurrence after the appearance of  Antichrist and the associated tribulation.

Is this understanding correct?
3  Theology / Debate / Re: What is Acts 15:11 saying ?? on: December 13, 2010, 11:06:28 AM
...Salvation has always been by God's Grace through faith in Him.
What kind of faith? Faith in His death, burial, and resurrection? The Mormons believe that. Even the JWs come close. Faith that He's the Son of God? Faith in His virgin birth? Faith that He even existed?

It's the form of faith which has changed dispensationally. Under the law, a Jew or Jewish proselyte was justified as he identified himself with the nation of Israel as the nation anticipated the appearance of the Messiah and the establishment of His earthly kingdom. (John 4:22b)

Now, there is neither Jew nor Greek. Justification occurs when the individual places his faith entirely in the crosswork.
4  Theology / Debate / Re: How was Paul saved ??? on: December 13, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
I think that you're treading far into hyper-dispensationalism.
Sorry. You'll have to be more specific.

No man has ever been Saved by the Law or works in any dispensation.
Agreed.
Salvation has always been by the Grace of God in all dispensations.
Agreed.
Faith in God in all dispensations has been accounted to men as righteousness.
Agreed, but the form of that faith has changed. Under the law, a Jew or Jewish proselyte was justified as he identified himself with the nation of Israel as the nation anticipated the appearance of the Messiah and the establishment of His earthly kingdom. (John 4:22b)

Now, there is neither Jew nor Greek. Justification occurs when the individual places his faith entirely in the crosswork.


5  Theology / Debate / Re: How was Paul saved ??? on: December 13, 2010, 12:15:31 AM
After muddying the waters with the new question about the 144,000, I'll answer the original question.

Since Paul introduced the Grace Gospel (and referred to it as "his" Gospel), he must have been saved by the Kingdom Gospel. In other words, he immediately recognized Christ as the Messiah.

It is equally obvious, however, that he considered his future home to be in Heaven, as do those who receive the Grace Gospel.
6  Theology / Debate / Re: Who has to repent ? on: December 12, 2010, 10:36:25 PM
At one time, 2 Gospels were being preached (Galatians 2:7). Paul was prepared to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Peter and the others in an effort to cause the Jews and the Jewish proselytes to recognize that Christ is the Messiah. We see this from his presentation of the Kingdom Gospel in the verses from Acts 17. But, there came a time (Acts 18:6) when Paul no longer attempted to turn the Jews to repentance, but, instead, went to the Gentiles with the Grace Gospel that God had granted him the privilege to be the first to present. Paul was not ashamed of his presentations of the Kingdom Gospel, however, and faithfully recounted them in Acts 26.
7  Theology / Debate / Re: How was Paul saved ??? on: December 12, 2010, 09:57:16 PM
At the other end of the "parenthesis," a similar question can be posed: Will the 144,000 be saved by the presentation of Paul's Gospel or by the Kingdom Gospel? They'll be heading into the Millennium, but they'll be coming out of the dispensation of Grace.

Don't mean to hijack the thread. Just thought this might serve to emphasize the reality of the problem.
8  Theology / Debate / Re: Why do we have to confess sins ?? on: December 12, 2010, 07:57:14 PM
No, I don't think that Brother Jerry has done that at all.
I evidently didn't make myself clear. The Scripture is:

Col 2:13 , And you , being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh  , hath He quickened together with Him , having  FORGIVEN  YOU  ALL  TRESPASSES .

Brother Jerry's response was:

...one that realizes when they have done wrong and desire to be forgiven for that offense

If words have meanings, that is an obvious contradiction. If God has told you that He has forgiven your sins, but you say, "No, God. I don't believe that. I must confess my sins in order for You to forgive them," you have placed your human understanding above everything, including the very Word of God.
9  Theology / Debate / Re: Why do we have to confess sins ?? on: December 12, 2010, 01:52:30 PM
Hi Dan.

   A heart that has confessed to Jesus and has turned towards Jesus will be one that realizes when they have done wrong and desire to be forgiven for that offense....or to confess.


But, haven't you directly contradicted God's Word, as quoted by Dan?

If all trespasses have been forgiven, any desire to be forgiven again is a direct repudiation of God's clear teaching. A believer should simply accept the fact that his sins have been forgiven. Period.

The doctrine of repentance is reserved for those of the dispensation of Law.


10  Theology / Debate / Re: The "GRACE" Movement (Hot Potato!) on: December 12, 2010, 01:43:10 AM
Yes, church labels can be misleading, but, they can also serve as a convenient shortcut. For instance, if I say that my church background is mainly GARBC (which it is), you know immediately that Romans 16:17 was one of the first verses I memorized. Some labels are deliberately formed to confuse and denigrate. For instance, I strongly suspect that the term "universal reconciliation" originated in the Reformed camp, since reconciliation is obviously "universal" (Second Corinthians 5:19), though certainly not in the sense by which the term "universal reconciliation" is applied. And, if there's a form of dispensationalism which doesn't exactly agree with yours, you can always throw in a derogatory adjective.

In recent years, I became discouraged (not exactly the right word, but "upset" seems too strong) with the confusion, among independent Baptist churches, of the crosswork, and its universal application, with God's work of justification, as it is applied to the individual through faith. I visited a Grace Movement church and was immediately forced to read again...carefully, this time...a number of passages which hadn't "sunk in." Specifically, I gained a fresh understanding of Paul's unique ministry "which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men" (Ephesians 3:5).

If there were, at the beginning of this dispensation, 2 different Gospels (Galatians 2:7), what has happened to one of them? And, since things that are different are not the same, how can it be expected that a message delivered before this dispensation is acceptable today. Supposing that Nicodemus left that meeting "born again," he would have yet been under the Law. After telling Nicodemus that he must be born again, our Lord went on to say "salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22).

At that time, Jews received eternal life (were justified) as they identified themselves with the prophetic plan for the nation of Israel, culminating in the earthly reign of the Messiah. Yes, many recognized, after the resurrection, "...that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures and that He was buried and that He rose again, according to the Scriptures." (First Corinthians 15:3,4). Yes, this had been prophesied. But, Paul was the one granted the privilege to reveal the Gospel for this dispensation. Now, it is no longer necessary to be born a Jew or become a Jewish proselyte. There is now neither Jew nor Greek. Eternal life is now available to all through faith in the finished crosswork. That is a message which can not be found in any of the "Four Gospels."

We now have only one Gospel and it is not the Gospel of the circumcision. This would mean that the church of this dispensation could not have begun in Acts 2, for Peter was still preaching the Kingdom Gospel. Indeed, it could not begin until Acts 9, when Paul was converted.

Yes, this means I'm no longer a Baptist, for there is but one baptism in this dispensation, and it has nothing to do with water.

If there is a weakness in the Grace Movement, it's found in the almost total disregard of world events. They seem to connect any interest in politics or the like as a desire to return to the Law and the associated prophecy. In other words, the eschatological teaching is very weak.   
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