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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
279480 Posts in 26887 Topics by 3790 Members
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31  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 18, 2011, 01:31:00 PM
 Hi Brother Jerry , so where were Dispensations created "  by man "  , and you wrote that and what do explain Eph 3:1-9 or maybe the Holy Spirit messe3d up by inserting 1 Cor 9:`7  where The  Holy Spirit says that  A   Dispensation  of the Gospel is committed unto me .

 Or , explain Col 1:25  " according to the DISPENSATION  of God that was given to me for you , to  FULFILL  the word of God .

 I would like to hear your answer !   dan p
32  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 15, 2011, 07:27:31 PM
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 Hi Rhys , and you are saying what of the  OP Huh
33  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 15, 2011, 01:19:09 PM
it is still all one plan. Salvation through Christ.

 Hi David James and without the shedding of blood , Heb 9:22  , there is no forgiveness of sins , but the Law ,  New  Covenant and Grace are different !

 And God has earthly people and Heavenly people .
34  Theology / Debate / How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 14, 2011, 02:17:07 PM
Hi to all and many believers say that there is only  ONE  GOSPEL and one message from Genesis through Revelation and that salvation has  ALWAYS  been by grace and I say ,  NO .

 #1 , Since Acts 9 , beginning with Paul and for the last 2000 years Jews and Gentiles are saved by Grace and  placed into the Body o9f Christ  Eph 2:8  and 1 Cor 12:13 .

 #2 ,The Jews are saved at the  END  of the  Tribulation and they are the  ONE  who are "  born again "  in Isa 66:8 ,  " shall  the earth be made to bring forth in one day ??   OR  shall a Nation be  BORN  at once  Huh    Or  Ezk 36:25-31  and  Heb 8:10  and in Rev 1:6  , the Nation of Israel will be Kings and Priests unto to God and His Father , and this is not the Body of Christ .

 #3 , Then the Gentiles  will be saved during the Millennium by being Grafted , Rom 11:17- 25 .

 So , I see from the following 3 different  PLANS  for 3 different people and there salvation and Covenant and Acts 2 believers need to go back to their drawing boards .

35  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 13, 2011, 04:43:49 PM
[quote author=Brother Jerry li


Let's start simple.
Let's start with your original point 1Your point apparently is that when Jesus said "this is my body" He was not referring to the Body of Christ, am I correct?
Ok if I am correct then we can continue, if not then you obviously need to explain further.  But let's assume I am correct in that.
So from here you need to explain why you said 'no' to that question.  You will need to explain what the Body of Christ is, and explain that when Christ said 'this is my body" what was He actually referring too.  Then you will need to conclude why the two are not the same.

And I would recommend using more than one sentence at a time. and pull out some verses to help explain it as well.

 Hi Brother Jerry and my last computer took a dump and finally am able to be back .

 My opening post I feel were simple and all you have to do is rebut with scripture .

 And you are correct that Matt 26 is not talking about the Body of Christ but the Passover which we , under grace are not required to keep .

36  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 10, 2011, 06:08:31 PM
No I have not because you have brought none to the table.  Your sentence does not even make sense.
ewwwww....You mean Christ never mentioned the Body of Christ?  But He did mention His body during the last supper for one....a gesture which Paul equates the body of Christ too, in 1 Corinthians 10:16.  It is Paul that explains that the body of Christ is all believers.  It is Paul who builds the imagery of partaking of the body of Christ for believers who were not around Jesus at the last supper, to be partakers of the same gesture.  Because Jesus did not mention the "Body of Christ" does not mean it did not exist until Paul said so.  If that were the case then the computer you are typing at does not exist either.  Much of what is to come was not spoken of directly by Jesus, I guess the book of Revelations is irrelevant as well?
And this is confined to the Jews how?


please answer this...who did Christ shed His blood for?  was it strictly for the Jews or was it for everyone, Jew and Gentile alike?
I would say everyone.  So when Jesus was speaking in Matthew 26:28 where He said "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." Then Gentile as well as Jew received the blood and the covenant.
And again Paul states later in 1 Corinthians 11:25 as he paraphrases Jesus that "This cup is THE new covenant in My blood", notice that Paul says "THE" which indicates that there is only one, not several.  And later Paul in 2 Corinthians 3:6 that we are servants of a new covenant.  It is the same new covenant that Jesus spoke of as well.  Paul also explains in Hebrews 9 that a covenant does not go into effect unless there is blood.  If there were two covenants, one for Jews and one for Gentiles, then Jesus would have had to die twice, and we both know that did not happen. 

 Hi Brother Jerry and you want to hold me accountable and you will not answer me , and everyone is reading Huh
37  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 10, 2011, 05:54:03 PM
I did and my point still stands.  Paul imitates Jesus, if we are to imitate Paul then we should imitate Jesus.  Paul is not trying to say he is any more "special" than anyone else.  Paul even explains that Christ should be the leader of every man, the head.  We should not follow Paul, but follow Jesus.
 Again you try and say a point and do not present anything.  You say it is a completely different translation and then do not say what it is supposed to be.  But here for you I will post it here.

1 Corinthians 1:12-17
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

now what you may be getting out of this is that since Paul says that Christ sent him to preach the Gospel that it must have started with Paul, but in order to state that you would have to say that Christ never told anyone else to preach the Gospel, which we know is wrong.  I mean these verses seem pretty clear to me and without any problems or complex translations.  You get somethging different from that?

 Hi Bother Jerry , and here is what you should explain and it is #14  , Is this baptism  WET  or  DRY ?? 

 Have verse for your explanation .

 And what is your exegesis of #17 ??

 On 2  Cor2:10 the Holy  Spirit writes through Paul  , To whom ye forgive  ANYTHING , I forgive also  , for IF I forgave any thing , to whom I forgave it , for your sakes forgave  I it  in  THE  PERSON  OF  CHRIST .

 The 12 Apostles could forgives sins in John 20:23 and Paul had as much authority !!

38  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 10, 2011, 02:00:51 PM

Your point there does not negate what Paul says in that sentence as well.  As he imitates Christ, and that Christ is the head of everyman.  We are to follow Christ, not Paul, we are to imitate Paul, who is imitating Christ.  Paul speaks of exactly what you are attempting to say in 1 Corinthians 1

1 Corinthians 1:12-13
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

We see again that Paul explains that he is only a messenger, there is nothing special about him, nothing new with him.  Christ was crucified for the everyone and his message is the same that was Christ, or Peter's, or James, or John's.  There is no special dispensation that started with Paul, he preaches strongly against that.

 Hi Brother Jerry and reread post #23 .
 1 Cor 1:12-17 is a completely different interpretation , and why not explain 1 Cor 1:12-17 Huh  you can do it !!!
39  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 10, 2011, 01:55:03 PM
Ok so now that you have laid these claims.  Back them up.

#1 The Gospels are for Israel - By this what do you mean, and where is your evidence to suggest this statement.

#2 There is only one new Covenant and that was given to Israel - Again expand on what you are speaking of here, and what is your evidence for this.

#3 Passover is Jewish and not for the Body of Christ - And what is the point of this statement anyways, specially in reference to Matthew 26.  Who is trying to say that the Passover is something that should be celebrated by anyone other than Jews?

So once again Dan you have made claims and done nothing to support your position.  There is no meat to these statements and nothing that anyone can measure and attempt to comprehend.  Again it is liken to saying "You are wrong" and not explaining why or how. 

 Hi Borother Jerry , and my Proof you have read and it is  CONTEXT >

 The Body of Christ is  never mentioned ,  UNTIL  Paul mentions it , period .

 The New Covenant was given to Israel in Heb 8:8-10 .


  Please answer this question for me to continue !!!
40  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 07, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
I concur Duval.

Dan you are ignoring THE most important part of that verse.  "Even as I imitate Christ"  Imitation is not following.  Following means one is leading while others follow, to imitate can put people on equal footing, one is simply imitating what the other is doing.  And that is what Paul preaches, act like he does, act in accordance to Jesus, we are not to follow Paul as if he was some sort of leader to be above any other man, as a matter of fact in that same chapter in verse 3 it says "But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, "  There is no exclusion of anyone in that. 

 Hi Brother Jerry and duval , and you should all check what the   VERB  TEXT  is saying , first .

 In 1 Cor 11:1  "  Be  ye followers/ IMITATORS of me " .

 Be in Greek , GINOMAL  ( G3402  in Strong's  )  is i9n the Greek present tense , continuing tense , the Passive voice  , and in the Imperative Mood , which all are  COMMANDED TO DO .

 You are wrong Huh    Yes you are !!

41  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 07, 2011, 05:34:03 PM
Ok so then again what exactly was your original point?

 Hi Bother Jerry and here are  THE  main points .

 #1 ,  Matt 26 , and the Gospels are for Israel !!!

 #2 , There is only  ONE  NEW  COVENANT  , and that was given to Israel , like Jer 31;31  ,  Heb 8:8  ,  and Ezek 36:25-27  and we see the context is  ALL  Israel .

 #3 , This means that the Passover and the blood on the door posts is all Jewish and not for the Body of Christ >

 dan p
42  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 07, 2011, 01:54:49 PM
But with #2 you did not ask anything.  It was a statement, there were exclamation points, not questions markes at the end of the sentence. 

And yep, Paul referred to the last supper with the Apostles in 1 Corinthians 11, which reflects that the tradition of doing the Lords Supper continued as a reflection of what happened that night.  Not certain how you get 2 covenants out of that...which seems to be typical in that you say things, but never really say your point.
And your point is?  With the shedding of Jesus blood there is a new covenant, not arguing that point, unless you were trying to make a different point earlier.  As to many....many is all who would receive it, the actual number is irrelevant, specially since "many" is a relatively subjective word itself.
There are not 2 new covenants.  There is the covenant of Christ which is a new Covenant, but it is to the Jews as well as the Gentiles. And there is the old Covenant which is to the Jews. 

 Hi Brother Jerry and I agree with you that there are  NOT  2  New Covenants , but there some dispendationalists that say there are 2 , because of what is written in 1  Cor 11:25 nwhere  DIATHEKE  is used , but Eph 2:12 refutes  that argument .  dan p
43  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 07, 2011, 01:45:25 PM
Hi Jerry

I reallly didn't want to go that far in this discussion but since asked I shall in a nutshell do so.  Some religions, Jehovah's Witnessess for example depend upon their  special writers for their truths.  I  am persuaded such is true of  dispensationalism as can clearly be seem by names of men and books  entered into the thread.  I have no time for such confusion!

God bless,

Hi duval , and who I follow is Paul , since he is the one that follows Christ as Paul writes by the Holy Spirit .

 In  1 Cor 11:1 says , Be ye  FOLLOWERS/ IMITATORS  of me  , even as I also am of Christ  .

 What it means is , " you become " is a command to become followers as Paul leads  .

Then in  1 Cor 4:16 Paul writes by the Holy Spirit , "  Therefore ,  I encourage you , become  (   a  command  )   IMITATORS   of me  .

 Check out  Eph 5::1  ,  Phil 3:17  speak in the same way , "  become IMITATORS " .

 These writers , like Charles Baker ,  C R Stam , Les Feldick and Robert C  Brock  all write of Dispensationalism as Paul has also written and follow Paul . 

 dan p
44  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 06, 2011, 06:46:28 PM
That figures!


 Hi , and if you have figured it out , what is Dispensationalism , so start a new thread , why not Huh
45  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 06, 2011, 06:44:04 PM

#5 "The context is Jewish, is that really true?"  Again no direction here, that seems like something out of the blue.  Jesus was speaking at the Passover meal and used that as a platform.  The Passover being an instruction of the Jews in the OT...and Jesus, if you did not notice, upheld the Laws of Moses.  Again not certain where you were trying to go with this one.

(the unnumbered) "Where is the Lord's Supper for the Body of Christ?" C'mon get more specific, what are you referring too here? 


 Hi Bother Jerry and I will have to say that Many there are 2 New Covenants , one for Israel and one for the Body of Christ .

 But , I will have to later show that the verse 29 is yet future .

 If you read 1 Cor 11:17-32 are the standards that are set for the Body of Christ , the Lord's table !!!
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