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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
277667 Posts in 26442 Topics by 3790 Members
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16  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 25, 2011, 08:29:52 PM
What makes you think that Jesus is speaking of only an assembly of believers and not the entire assembly of believers, which is the body of Christ?  Which also begs the questions how do you differentiate between the Body of Christ and the whole of all believers?

And please it is not so much that I missed anything, but that you have not explained your position well enough.  Smiley

 Hi BJ , and my laptop quit working and a friend is getting going again and I needed some time to rest as , like many seniors I have medical problems .

 What most believers seem to always forget , is  CONTEXT and the Gospels are all written to God's covenanted people , the Jewish .

  Just look at Matt 26:28 , it is blood of the New Covenant

 Which was shed for the  MANY and How  MANY  is  Many ??

 So , who is He talking too and who are the  MANY Huh

 It is the Jews  and from your repeated questions , it looks like you will never understand what I write , o well .

17  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 20, 2011, 01:49:36 PM

You may attempting to learn a little Greek, but I would also recommend you learn to post a point.  Your post is all over the place with no substance to let anyone know what you are really talking about.

You start with thisNow there is a lot to cover in Chapter 16 of Matthew.  I mean there is the Pharisees testing Jesus, Peter confessing to Jesus, Jesus foretelling of His death, and tons of minor details in between.  So what in Matthew 16 are you referring too?

 Hi Bother Jerry and am sorry that you are missing my teaching on Matt 16 . 

 #1 , THE WORD CHURCH in Matt 16:18  is talking about an Assembly of believers   NOT  the Body of Christ , and do you see that  BJ

18  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 19, 2011, 07:46:03 PM
no Dan.  I should not have to explain anything.  You were the original poster here.  You were the one trying to make a point and you are the one who is failing miserably at that.

If you are getting something from verse 14 you should explain what it is you are trying to say.

If you have some other meaning than what the verse plainly states in verse 14 or verse 17 then it is on you to explain what it is you are talking about.

 Hi Bother Jerry , so do not debate , for this is what this site is for , and I am on many sites , best to you , as I will not demand that you debate , but it does look bad for you , dan p
19  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 19, 2011, 06:49:42 PM
Hi Bother Jerry and even when I explained what  OIKONOMIA  means in the Greek  you stumble at what Paul means by it , so let me clarify for you .

 OIKOS means House .

 NOMOS means Law .

 Check VINE'S  and clear it up /

 So what does  house law's means and what i8s Paul talking about so , lets give an example first .

 Under the Law of Mo0se they had 613 laws that governed Israel , agreed ??

 Under Pauline truth the laws the govern us are the following ;



Indwelling Holy Spirit

Eternal life
New nature

Grace of God , that is what the Dispensation that Paul is talking about .

 These are what is  not in the Old Testament  dan p
20  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 18, 2011, 01:31:00 PM
 Hi Brother Jerry , so where were Dispensations created "  by man "  , and you wrote that and what do explain Eph 3:1-9 or maybe the Holy Spirit messe3d up by inserting 1 Cor 9:`7  where The  Holy Spirit says that  A   Dispensation  of the Gospel is committed unto me .

 Or , explain Col 1:25  " according to the DISPENSATION  of God that was given to me for you , to  FULFILL  the word of God .

 I would like to hear your answer !   dan p
21  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 15, 2011, 07:27:31 PM
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 Hi Rhys , and you are saying what of the  OP Huh
22  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 15, 2011, 01:19:09 PM
it is still all one plan. Salvation through Christ.

 Hi David James and without the shedding of blood , Heb 9:22  , there is no forgiveness of sins , but the Law ,  New  Covenant and Grace are different !

 And God has earthly people and Heavenly people .
23  Theology / Debate / How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 14, 2011, 02:17:07 PM
Hi to all and many believers say that there is only  ONE  GOSPEL and one message from Genesis through Revelation and that salvation has  ALWAYS  been by grace and I say ,  NO .

 #1 , Since Acts 9 , beginning with Paul and for the last 2000 years Jews and Gentiles are saved by Grace and  placed into the Body o9f Christ  Eph 2:8  and 1 Cor 12:13 .

 #2 ,The Jews are saved at the  END  of the  Tribulation and they are the  ONE  who are "  born again "  in Isa 66:8 ,  " shall  the earth be made to bring forth in one day ??   OR  shall a Nation be  BORN  at once  Huh    Or  Ezk 36:25-31  and  Heb 8:10  and in Rev 1:6  , the Nation of Israel will be Kings and Priests unto to God and His Father , and this is not the Body of Christ .

 #3 , Then the Gentiles  will be saved during the Millennium by being Grafted , Rom 11:17- 25 .

 So , I see from the following 3 different  PLANS  for 3 different people and there salvation and Covenant and Acts 2 believers need to go back to their drawing boards .

24  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 13, 2011, 04:43:49 PM
[quote author=Brother Jerry li


Let's start simple.
Let's start with your original point 1Your point apparently is that when Jesus said "this is my body" He was not referring to the Body of Christ, am I correct?
Ok if I am correct then we can continue, if not then you obviously need to explain further.  But let's assume I am correct in that.
So from here you need to explain why you said 'no' to that question.  You will need to explain what the Body of Christ is, and explain that when Christ said 'this is my body" what was He actually referring too.  Then you will need to conclude why the two are not the same.

And I would recommend using more than one sentence at a time. and pull out some verses to help explain it as well.

 Hi Brother Jerry and my last computer took a dump and finally am able to be back .

 My opening post I feel were simple and all you have to do is rebut with scripture .

 And you are correct that Matt 26 is not talking about the Body of Christ but the Passover which we , under grace are not required to keep .

25  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 10, 2011, 06:08:31 PM
No I have not because you have brought none to the table.  Your sentence does not even make sense.
ewwwww....You mean Christ never mentioned the Body of Christ?  But He did mention His body during the last supper for one....a gesture which Paul equates the body of Christ too, in 1 Corinthians 10:16.  It is Paul that explains that the body of Christ is all believers.  It is Paul who builds the imagery of partaking of the body of Christ for believers who were not around Jesus at the last supper, to be partakers of the same gesture.  Because Jesus did not mention the "Body of Christ" does not mean it did not exist until Paul said so.  If that were the case then the computer you are typing at does not exist either.  Much of what is to come was not spoken of directly by Jesus, I guess the book of Revelations is irrelevant as well?
And this is confined to the Jews how?


please answer this...who did Christ shed His blood for?  was it strictly for the Jews or was it for everyone, Jew and Gentile alike?
I would say everyone.  So when Jesus was speaking in Matthew 26:28 where He said "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." Then Gentile as well as Jew received the blood and the covenant.
And again Paul states later in 1 Corinthians 11:25 as he paraphrases Jesus that "This cup is THE new covenant in My blood", notice that Paul says "THE" which indicates that there is only one, not several.  And later Paul in 2 Corinthians 3:6 that we are servants of a new covenant.  It is the same new covenant that Jesus spoke of as well.  Paul also explains in Hebrews 9 that a covenant does not go into effect unless there is blood.  If there were two covenants, one for Jews and one for Gentiles, then Jesus would have had to die twice, and we both know that did not happen. 

 Hi Brother Jerry and you want to hold me accountable and you will not answer me , and everyone is reading Huh
26  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 10, 2011, 05:54:03 PM
I did and my point still stands.  Paul imitates Jesus, if we are to imitate Paul then we should imitate Jesus.  Paul is not trying to say he is any more "special" than anyone else.  Paul even explains that Christ should be the leader of every man, the head.  We should not follow Paul, but follow Jesus.
 Again you try and say a point and do not present anything.  You say it is a completely different translation and then do not say what it is supposed to be.  But here for you I will post it here.

1 Corinthians 1:12-17
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

now what you may be getting out of this is that since Paul says that Christ sent him to preach the Gospel that it must have started with Paul, but in order to state that you would have to say that Christ never told anyone else to preach the Gospel, which we know is wrong.  I mean these verses seem pretty clear to me and without any problems or complex translations.  You get somethging different from that?

 Hi Bother Jerry , and here is what you should explain and it is #14  , Is this baptism  WET  or  DRY ?? 

 Have verse for your explanation .

 And what is your exegesis of #17 ??

 On 2  Cor2:10 the Holy  Spirit writes through Paul  , To whom ye forgive  ANYTHING , I forgive also  , for IF I forgave any thing , to whom I forgave it , for your sakes forgave  I it  in  THE  PERSON  OF  CHRIST .

 The 12 Apostles could forgives sins in John 20:23 and Paul had as much authority !!

27  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 10, 2011, 02:00:51 PM

Your point there does not negate what Paul says in that sentence as well.  As he imitates Christ, and that Christ is the head of everyman.  We are to follow Christ, not Paul, we are to imitate Paul, who is imitating Christ.  Paul speaks of exactly what you are attempting to say in 1 Corinthians 1

1 Corinthians 1:12-13
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

We see again that Paul explains that he is only a messenger, there is nothing special about him, nothing new with him.  Christ was crucified for the everyone and his message is the same that was Christ, or Peter's, or James, or John's.  There is no special dispensation that started with Paul, he preaches strongly against that.

 Hi Brother Jerry and reread post #23 .
 1 Cor 1:12-17 is a completely different interpretation , and why not explain 1 Cor 1:12-17 Huh  you can do it !!!
28  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 10, 2011, 01:55:03 PM
Ok so now that you have laid these claims.  Back them up.

#1 The Gospels are for Israel - By this what do you mean, and where is your evidence to suggest this statement.

#2 There is only one new Covenant and that was given to Israel - Again expand on what you are speaking of here, and what is your evidence for this.

#3 Passover is Jewish and not for the Body of Christ - And what is the point of this statement anyways, specially in reference to Matthew 26.  Who is trying to say that the Passover is something that should be celebrated by anyone other than Jews?

So once again Dan you have made claims and done nothing to support your position.  There is no meat to these statements and nothing that anyone can measure and attempt to comprehend.  Again it is liken to saying "You are wrong" and not explaining why or how. 

 Hi Borother Jerry , and my Proof you have read and it is  CONTEXT >

 The Body of Christ is  never mentioned ,  UNTIL  Paul mentions it , period .

 The New Covenant was given to Israel in Heb 8:8-10 .


  Please answer this question for me to continue !!!
29  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 07, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
I concur Duval.

Dan you are ignoring THE most important part of that verse.  "Even as I imitate Christ"  Imitation is not following.  Following means one is leading while others follow, to imitate can put people on equal footing, one is simply imitating what the other is doing.  And that is what Paul preaches, act like he does, act in accordance to Jesus, we are not to follow Paul as if he was some sort of leader to be above any other man, as a matter of fact in that same chapter in verse 3 it says "But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, "  There is no exclusion of anyone in that. 

 Hi Brother Jerry and duval , and you should all check what the   VERB  TEXT  is saying , first .

 In 1 Cor 11:1  "  Be  ye followers/ IMITATORS of me " .

 Be in Greek , GINOMAL  ( G3402  in Strong's  )  is i9n the Greek present tense , continuing tense , the Passive voice  , and in the Imperative Mood , which all are  COMMANDED TO DO .

 You are wrong Huh    Yes you are !!

30  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 07, 2011, 05:34:03 PM
Ok so then again what exactly was your original point?

 Hi Bother Jerry and here are  THE  main points .

 #1 ,  Matt 26 , and the Gospels are for Israel !!!

 #2 , There is only  ONE  NEW  COVENANT  , and that was given to Israel , like Jer 31;31  ,  Heb 8:8  ,  and Ezek 36:25-27  and we see the context is  ALL  Israel .

 #3 , This means that the Passover and the blood on the door posts is all Jewish and not for the Body of Christ >

 dan p
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