[all the land]

God promised the land to Abraham and his seed.
Genesis 13:14-15 (KJV): "14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever."

Paul states that this seed is Christ.
Galatians 3:16 (KJV): "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

The Gentile believers at Galatia, and all who have believed the gospel of Christ and are baptised also inherit the land promise of Genesis 13:15:
Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV): "26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Paul shows that the nation of Israel were not heirs to the land through the Law. They were temporary tenants.
Romans 4:13-16 (KJV): "13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,"

The land promise is to all the faithful from Eden to the coming of Christ because they will be resurrected to receive everlasting life and they will inherit the land for ever.
Genesis 13:15 (KJV): "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever."
Matthew 5:5 (KJV): "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."
Hebrews 11:39-40 (KJV): "39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Kind regards
Trevor

A few things that interest me are:
1. The vision of Jesus as the future king-priest Isaiah 6:1, Numbers 14:21, Psalm 8.
2. Did Isaiah prophesy ch.1-5 before his call in Isaiah 6? My tentative answer - yes.
3. The significance of the seraphim Isaiah 6:2. Are the seraphim also fulfilled by Christ? - my tentative answer - yes, as the cherubim of the Most Holy Place and Ezekiel 1 are fulfilled in Christ. Also, what is the meaning of their wings, and in what way are the seraphim different to cherubim, etc.
4. NT allusions to Isaiah 6, eg Matthew 13, John 12, ie some aspects of the fulfilment of Isaiah 6 in Christ's ministry.
5. The enigmatic summary of Isaiah's and Christ's preaching in Isaiah 6:9-10, quoted in Matthew 13, John 12, Acts 28 compared with the simplicity, beauty, strength of their preaching, and the effectiveness of their preaching amongst their disciples.
6. The greatness, not only of Isaiah, but the book and words of Isaiah, the "5th gospel", the greatest of the writing prophets.

My tentative answer to item 2
2. Did Isaiah prophesy ch.1-5 before his call in Isaiah 6?
Yes. Isaiah was given the vision of the kingdom in Isaiah 2 and also of the earthquake. This prophecy appears to be before the earthquake during Uzziah's reign Zechariah 14:5, which I assume was some years before Uzziah's death. The book of Isaiah appears to be sequential. Isaiah having commenced his work as a prophet during Uzziah's reign, appears to be called to a greater role, being given a vision of the Most Holy, and being humbled and cleansed. As a result he also assumed the role vacated by Zechariah the prophet to Uzziah in his earlier years. Isaiah is revealed as the prophet to the king, perhaps Jotham, but especially Ahaz and Hezekiah.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Kind regards
Trevor

[to confirm the promises made unto the fathers]

Howdy Inissue55,

Greetings. I am uncertain of the term dispensation. I prefer to look at the two covenants and the era that these cover.

The Old Covenant was from Moses until Christ fulfilled the various shadows, types and sacrifices in his life, crucifixion, death and resurrection. The externals of the Mosaic system were removed in AD70 with the destruction of the Temple and the captivity of Judah. The Old Covenant gave temporary residence in the land, but could not save or give eternal life.

The New Covenant was given in Eden in Genesis 3:15, was expanded in the promises to Abraham Genesis 12, 13 etc and David 2 Samuel 7:12-16, and were confirmed and made effective by the blood of Christ.
Romans 15:8-9 (KJV): "8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name."
Acts 13:34 (KJV): "34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Galatians 3:16,26-29 (KJV): "16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

The New Covenant era then commences at Eden, is centred in the death and resurrection of Christ and the hope of his return to establish the kingdom. All from Eden onwards who have faith in this New Covenant receive salvation, and if found acceptable when Christ returns, will receive eternal life in the kingdom that will last 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor

[in righteousness he doth judge and make war]

Howdy Pastor Roger,

Greetings. I was interested in your two posts on pacifism and the alternative that you suggest. I am not a pacifist because I believe that God gave the commandment for Joshua to overthrow Jericho, and gave him detailed instruction on how to be victorious, and also to save Rahab and her household. Also I believe that when Christ returns he will make war as you have quoted:
Revelation 19:11 (KJV): "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

Both of these are direct God given examples, but apart from a direct command from God, I would find it difficult to justify killing on the basis of Christ's example and the following:
Matthew 5:43-45 (KJV): "43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

When it comes to a serious difference between our allegiance to Christ and our allegiance to the State, I believe the words of the Apostles should be heeded when necessary:
Acts 4:18-20 (KJV): "18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.
Acts 5:28-29 (KJV): "28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us. 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."

I believe that God uses war to judge and punish nations, to some extent both agressors and defenders. One example is when Babylon destroyed Judea, and took them into captivity for 70 years. Jeremiah was considered by some as a traitor because he preached that they were not to resist the Babylonian. The outcome and purpose of some (if not all) wars is in God's hand and according to God's purpose. God's hand was also seen when Babylon was overthrown by the Medo-Persians, resulting in the opportunity for some to return to Jerusalem and Judea. Two of my favourite examples are Jehoshaphat 2 Chronicles 20:14-19 and Hezekiah 2 Kings 19:15-20, 32-35.

The following is also interesting, in that all the nations will be gathered together to battle, and if this occurs in our day then our attitude to, and involvement in war may be important. The nations seem to be drawn to this battle by accepting a certain indoctrination, voiced by the dragon, beast and false prophet. These nations respond because this false teaching agrees with their own ambitions, whether territorial, economic or religious, perhaps their own love of warfare and spoil. The worst of human nature is usually revealed at these times. But it is God who ultimately gathers them to a certain place, and it is God who will judge and who will be victorious. Those who watch for the return of Christ and keep their garments appear to survive this process. Revelation 16:13-16 (KJV): 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

Kind regards
Trevor

[Bronzesnake wrote:]

Howdy Bronzesnake,

Greetings. There are many views of the events surrounding the return of Christ. It is difficult at times to determine what is literal and figurative, and even though I respect your view, nevertheless I believe in the literal fulfilment of many of the OT prophecies. My literal view forces me into accepting that the language of 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 6 is to some extent figurative. If the language of 2 Peter 3 is taken as literal, this leads to either dismissing or diminishing the literal meaning and detail of many of the OT prophecies.

Bronzesnake wrote:

"I must disagree with your assertion that these events are figurative my friend.. Read the bold text and compare it with the following verses."

I agree that 2 Peter 3:9-13 and Revelation 6:13-17 use the same language. To repeat what Dyskolos said, and I am not ignoring your answer, if all the stars fell to the earth, or even one star, or even a star much smaller than our sun, there would not be much left of the earth for man to hide from the wrath of the lamb. 2 Peter 3 speaks of the destruction of the Noahic heaven and earth, but the globe itself survived, and some of the plants, fish, birds, animals and humans survived the judgments and flood. In the Bible language of 2 Peter 3, the present "heaven" and "earth" is different to that of Noah before the flood.

Compare the language of the following, and note that Isaiah is speaking of the judgment that was to come on Idumea, possibly by direct Divine intervention, or more likely by the sword of the army of Assyria or Babylon.
Isaiah 34:4-6 (KJV): "4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. 6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea."
Revelation 6:13-14 (KJV): "13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
One of Joseph's dreams shows that sun, moon, stars can represent people. Stars could be the princes of Edom.

Also the language of Revelation 6 has a parallel with Isaiah 2, and yet the opening vision of Isaiah 2 depicts the outcome, that a remnant of the nations will survive those judgments, and worship will be restored centred in Judah and Jerusalem.
Isaiah 2:4 (KJV): "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
Isaiah 2:19 (KJV): "And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth."
Revelation 6:15-17 (KJV): "15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

There will be some physical changes when Christ returns, eg the earthquake and splitting of the Mount of Olives as recorded in Zechariah 14, but the rest of the detail of Zechariah 14 prove that the earth will not be destroyed when Christ returns, but will be refreshed and restored.
Zechariah 14:11,16 (KJV): "11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."

Kind regards
Trevor

[the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth]

2 Peter 3:9-13 (KJV): "9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

The immediate context speaks of a previous heaven and earth, the world of Noah's time. Peter compares the Noahic heaven and earth with the present heaven and earth. This shows that Peter is not speaking of the destruction of our globe, but the expression "new heavens and a new earth" is speaking of a new order of things, the replacing of the kingdoms of men with the Kingdom of God.
2 Peter 3:5-7 (KJV): "5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

The expression "new heavens and a new earth" also occurs in Isaiah 65:17-20 and in this quotation there is mention of mortal inhabitants of the earth and sinners. Refer also Isaiah 66:22-24 where the recent judgments will still be evident to those who go up to Jerusalem to worship.
Isaiah 65:17-20 (KJV): "17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

The same prophet Isaiah speaks of judgment on the nations, but not to the utter destruction of the earth and its inhabitants.
Isaiah 2:4 (KJV): "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
Isaiah 26:9-10 (KJV): "9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. 10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD."

We should compare what Peter says in his epistle concerning the destruction of the present heaven and earth and what he said in Acts 3 concerning refreshing and restoration when Christ returns.
Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): "19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution (RV restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

The address that Peter gave in Acts 3 was as a result of the healing of the lame man.
Acts 3:8,9,16 (KJV): "And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:"
"16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

The healing of the lame man was a sign, it demonstrated the fact that Jesus whom they had crucified, was now in Heaven, and had poured out the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles Peter and John to heal this man. This miracle endorsed their message concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus and salvation through the name of Jesus.

A similar expression occurs in Isaiah 35 concerning the healing of the lame, but the context has numerous occurences of the idea of refreshing. Peter could have been alluding to this prophecy in his speech in Acts 3.
Isaiah 35:1-10 (KJV): "1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. 2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God. 3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. 4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. 5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. 6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert. 7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes. 8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein. 9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there: 10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away."

The healing of the lame man is a token that Jesus will return, and the earth and mankind will be refreshed and there will be a restoration of all things. Yes, there will be judgment and some destruction, and the symbol of fire is used, but the net effect upon the earth and its inhabitants will be refreshing and restoratiion of all things. Jesus will bring new heavens and a new earth, the kingdom of God upon earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

Matthew 11:28-30 (KJV): "28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The figure of the yoke is thought to be the double yoke, where a young animal is coupled to an older animal used to steady ploughing. If the young races ahead it is gently restrained, if reticent gently encouraged. But over all, the burden bearer is Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

[the times of refreshing]

Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): "19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

My favourite verse is Acts 3:19, and specifically the phrase "the times of refreshing". I consider v21 explains or expands this phrase of refreshing from v19. Living in Australia we are conscious of summer heat and drought. This particular verse came to my attention during the severe summer two years ago, when we had drought and many destructive bushfires. By contrast the recent summer has been mild and refreshing and the fruit trees and crops have had the best season for many years.

This "natural" contrast of heat, drought with mild weather, rain, growth, fruit is like the present heat, dryness, wilderness, even fires of our present pilgramge contrasted with the coming blessing when Christ returns to establish his kingdom upon this earth, when he will bring times of joy and peace and righteousness, that is times of refreshing.

Peter when he uses the term "refreshing" alludes to many OT prophecies. One example, David's last words show how his heart was set on this future reign of Christ in 2 Sam.23:3-7:
There shall be a ruler over mankind
A righteous one
Ruling in the fear of God
And as the brightness of the morning
He shall rise the Sun of an unclouded dawn
Shining forth after rain upon
the tender grass out of the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

Howdy Bronzesnake,

Greetings. I appreciate your comment.

My original post was incorrect as I stated that it was "A Psalm of Asaph" but the correct title is "A Psalm for the sons of Korah." This title has a significant lesson for us. Although Korah perished, his children were saved when they separated from the tent of Korah.

As a brief expansion,  I believe that the psalm would have many applications.
1. The original application at the time of these sons of Korah. This could have been in David's time, or some crisis in Israel's history eg the Assyrian invasion at the time of Hezekiah. If written in David's time, Hezekiah would take great comfort in this psalm in his own trials.
2. Both the events of David and Hezekiah's times are foreshadowings of Christ in his suffering and his ultimate blessing.
3. The sufferings and blessings of Christ also are typical of the sufferings and blessing for the followers of Christ.
4. The psalm also has relevance to Israel in the land today, their coming time of trouble, their plea for deliverance and their ultimate salvation and blessing in the land.

Kind regards
Trevor

[A Prayer for the Revival and Restoration of Israel]

A Prayer for the Revival and Restoration of Israel

Psalm 85 (KJV with section headings added)
Vv 1-3 Former mercies / future blessing
A Psalm of Asaph
1 LORD, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob.
2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.
3 Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger.
Vv 4-7 Petition for revival and salvation
4 Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease.
5 Wilt thou be angry with us for ever? wilt thou draw out thine anger to all generations?
6 Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee?
7 Shew us thy mercy, O LORD, and grant us thy salvation.
Vv 8-9 Waiting for God's voice
8 I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.
9 Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.
Vv 10-13 Abundant blessing, righteousness and peace in the land
10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.
11 Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
12 Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.
13 Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.

Kind regards
Trevor

[Allowing Christ to enter our lives]

Allowing Christ to enter our lives

Howdy Robert "Philippians 4:13",

Greetings. I appreciate your good wishes. I hope each of us will be encouraged in these difficult times and patiently wait for the coming of Jesus Christ.

I was interested in your comments concerning Christmas, and it repeats comments made by a friend at work. Let me firstly state that I am overawed by the events of the birth of Jesus as they are revealed to us in the Bible records of Matthew and Luke. I also live in Australia where we have a Queen's birthday holiday in June. The Queen's birthday is actually on another day, and the holiday is possibly a carry over from King George V. I respect the Queen and appreciate the reminder and the holiday.

In a similar fashion, Christmas reminds me of the birth of Jesus, even though I do not think he was born on that day. I hope that you do not take offense at this, analysing the word as you have done, but I am not a Catholic, and I do not like the second part of the word Christ-Mass. This word is foreign to my religious environment, and I associate it with the ritual of the Catholic Church. Yes, remember Christ on this holiday, also rejoicing with the family and giving are very commendable.

But let us remember Christ, not just once or twice a year as is popular, remember his birth and his death and resurrection every day of our lives and praise God for his mercy and love in giving His Beloved Son John 3:16.

Kind regards
Trevor

[children of the most High]

Howdy "faithful servant",

Greetings. Looking at your article on "End Times", the article states:

"Many competent and prominent Bible scholars of today believe the "sons of God" are of human lineage."
"Ultimately, this position simply does not "hold water" under even casual study. It is only by the Divine specific act of creation that any created being can be called a son of God. "
"The only thing referred to as a son of god (besides The Son of God) in the Bible is angels, Adam (not his descendants, who were after Adam's kind), and those having the new nature of Christ. Since the verses in Genesis 6 are not talking about Jesus or Adam and the Messiah has obviously not come yet, that leaves angels."

Jesus talks concerning the usage of the term "gods" as applied to those to whom the word of God came.
John 10:34-35 (KJV): "34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods ? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came"
This is speaking of the judges in Israel. The parallel phrase that explains and expands this phrase shows that the term son of God can be applied to those who have been set apart by God to accomplish his work.
Psalm 82:6 (KJV): "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
A careful examination of Psalm 82 will show that these "gods" or "children of the most High" were ready for judgment by God if they did not repent. Similarly the sons of God in Genesis 6 were those of the descendants of Shem, who should have been faithful to God and his ways, but they became corrupt by seeking marriage to the ungodly descendants of Cain.

The same theme is revealed throughout all the Scriptures, of the need to be sanctified unto God and this is by means of God's word.
John 17:17 (KJV) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
1 John 3:1-3 (KJV): "1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

Kind regards
Trevor

[BigD wrote:]

Howdy BigD,

Greetings again. I feel that we haved stated our differences, and it appears that we both have strong views based on our environments, our experience, our research, etc. Most probably it will take more than our discussion for us to come to a common view, but I have appreciated our discussion and your patience.
BigD wrote:

"When Christ comes to establish His kingdom upon the earth, I cannot find anywhere in the Bible that says that the kingdom saints will "rule and reign" with Christ upon the earth. The earthly kingdom saints will be judged by the 12 disciples who will be sitting on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel (Matt 19:28).

Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV): "9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

BigD wrote:

In 2 Tim 2:11, 12 we read: "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer with him, we shall also reign with him..." This surely won't be upon the earth. "

The 12 disciples suffered with Jesus and will reign with him. This proves that they will share the throne of David with Jesus.
Matthew 19:28 (KJV): "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 1:32-33 (KJV): "32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."
Revelation 3:21 (KJV): "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

BigD wrote:

"Then you are saying "eternal in the heavens" is on earth.

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 (KJV): "1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."
The whole theme of a "house" talks of God's house or temple, and 2 Samuel 7:12-16 speaks of this house and the whole of the promises to David and of Christ sitting on David's throne are interlinked with this. Christ is this temple or house. The believers are part of the body of Christ and the link between the temple and the body and resurrection of Christ is spelt out in John 2:19-22. 2 Corinthians 5 has it's own ideas and context, but has many parallels of thought with this theme of God's house.

BigD wrote:

"Back in Galatians 2:9, the 12 disciples agreed to stay with the Jewish kingdom saints."

This was from an earlier post. You claim that Peter and John preached to the Jews and that Peter and John and these Jews will be in the earthly kingdom. Looking at the Book of  Hebrews, this is addressed to these believing Jews, and many of these were in Jerusalem and Judea, where the Law and the Temple were the centre of worship. How do you understand the following where the writer compares the trust they should have in Jesus with their present trust in Moses:
Hebrews 3:1-2 (KJV): "1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house."

Concerning your other comments, I believe that there is only one means of salvation, and one outcome, not two as you state. Undoubtedly being under the Law was a different environment, but the outcome was the same - faith. Salvation is by an affectionate response in faith to the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, and this faith leads to baptism and living the crucified life.
Acts 8:5,12 (KJV): "5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."
Galatians 2:20 (KJV): "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Kind regards
Trevor

[Silver Surfer wrote:]

Howdy Silver Surfer,

Greetings again. Silver Surfer wrote:

"Ah, but the 7th day Sabbath commandment is not in the Law of Moses.
It is the 4th commandment, that God himself wrote out, with his very own finger, (Exodus 20:8-11......31:18).
The sabbaths that were in the Law of Moses, were the ceremonial sabbaths, such as the Passover....the Feasts of Trumpets...the Feasts of Unleaven Bread, etc...etc., which were abolished, at the cross of Jesus.
Oh, you mean the Jesus who said: "IF..you love me, keep my commandments" ?"

I am not sure that I want to get into a full ranging discussion on the Sabbath. I believe the need to keep the Commandments. Concerning the sabbath not being part of the Law given to Moses and hence to Israel, consider all of 2 Corinthians 3, but especially:
2 Corinthians 3:7 (KJV): "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
John 1:14,17 (KJV): "14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

But rather than getting into the full subject of the sabbath, briefly expanding on the two aspects mentioned previously,  "Jesus is the true rest Matthew 11:28-30, and the 1000 years is also another aspect of the true rest Hebrews 4." The Book of  Hebrews is addressed to believing Jews, and many of these were in Jerusalem and Judea, where the Law and the Temple were the centre of worship. The writer is seeking to refocus their minds on Christ and make them realise that the Law and it's environment was soon to be removed, and if they did not hold fast to Christ they were in danger of drifting away, and being engulfed in the coming troubles.

Paul in Hebrews 4 teaches concerning the true rest in the following:
Hebrews 4:1-11 (KJV): "1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus (mg Joshua) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest (mg keeping of a Sabbath) to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.."
There is a linking of all aspects of "the rest" or Sabbath, and at the end bringing out the lesson of "ceased from his own works" and also the future rest. This future rest is talking of the future kingdom of God, the subject matter of the "gospel preached" v2, and it is "a promise being left us of entering into his rest" v1. (We are not completely off subject after all).

This ceasing from our own works does have a future aspect, but this can be an every day experience now when we cease from our own works and rest in Christ.
Matthew 11:28-30 (KJV): "28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Jesus is the true Sabbath.

Kind regards
Trevor

[BigD wrote:]

Howdy BigD,

Greetings again. BigD wrote:

"I will repeat - "If we go into an earthly kingdom on earth, what would Paul's position be?" Also, I was looking forward to more response to my last postings.."

I apologise for not answering all your statements. Time is a factor, and I will start with this latest. My main aim was to establish that there is, and always has been only one gospel of the kingdom and name of Jesus Christ, and only one hope. I believe Paul was waiting for Christ to return to establish his 1000 year reign on earth, God's heavenly kingdom on earth, heavenly because the source of this kingdom is from heaven, not located in heaven.
BigD wrote:

"As we know, Jesus is presently in heaven sitting at the right hand of God the Father. We also know that Paul was taken up to the third heaven (2Cor12:2) and saw thing that he was unable to discribe. In 5:6 Paul says: "whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:", and in vs 8 says: "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and be present with the Lord."
Paul is not looking for an earthly home.."

2 Timothy 4:1 (KJV): "1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"
2 Timothy 4:6-8 (KJV): "6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.:"
Yes, here at the end of his life he is ready to depart and be with Jesus. Paul's next conscious moment will be in the presence of the Lord, when Christ returns. What he anticipates is the return of Jesus to judge him, and because Jesus is a righteous judge he is confident that Christ will reward him and welcome him into his kingdom together with all those that love his appearing.

The expression "new heaven and new earth" speaks of a progression from an existing heaven and earth to another, and this appears to be the numbering system, not three different heavens above, but I cannot prove this. The third heaven could be after the 1000 years, but I am not willing to demand that others agree. We have little information of this period when there is no sin and death and God is all in all, and I believe that Paul was given this special vison to sustain him in the abundance of his trials.

Starting on your earlier two replies. BigD wrote:

"These earthly things are only temporal. My heavenly blessings are permanent. I will receive them when I am raptured to heaven."

We can be heavely minded now and in God's kingdom on earth. I do not believe in the rapture.
BigD wrote:

"2Cor5 does not state anything about how our bodies will appear. However, it says that we believer will have a home "eternal in the heavens." "

No, it says we already have a house or building there, which speaks of the life of immortality that Christ will bring and will clothe us with when he returns, that is the resurrection, "that mortality may be swallowed up of life" v4.
BigD wrote:

""the clouds" and "the air" are figurative language of what? "

The clouds are a symbol of the ruling class over the earth during the 1000 years, they are the new heaven, while the mortal subjects of the kingdom will be the new earth. These clouds in the air of the kingdom reflect the light of the Sun of righteousness during the 1000 years, having been drawn out of the sea of nations during the previous eras of Jews and Gentiles.
BigD wrote:

"Nowhere in Galatians 3:16 do I see Paul quoting directly from the land promises in Genesis 13:14-15. You are somehow reading that into it, or it was omitted from my KJV of the Bible. I am not denying that Abram was not given a land promise, I am saying that the land promises are not the subject in all of Galatians 3. It has to do with the gift of the Spirit and the Law."

Yes, there is a larger context in Galatians 3, but the land promise is the one hope of all believers including Abraham and all his true descendants, concentred in Christ, and this includes Paul and the Gentile Galatians. Christ is "the seed" of Genesis 13:14-15 as he is the centre of all the promises to Abraham as Paul states in Galatians 3:16. Galatians 3:26-29 then shows that all the accepted believers will inherit the promise of the land, as well as all the Abrahamic promises. They will receive or fulfil the Edenic promises, all of the Abrahamic promises, the Davidic promises and will be immortal. There was never two ways to two different hopes of salvation. The whole book of Galatians is Paul's exposition that there is and has always ever been only one method of salvation, through faith not Law. Even when the Law was in force, only those of faith will be saved. Every revival in Israel was a faith revival, usually outside of the Law in some aspects, eg David and Hezekiah. To talk all the glorified believers coming under the Law in the Age to Come when they will be immortal and sinless is irrelevant and wrong. Isaiah 2:1-4 speaks of the law and word of God going forth to the nations, but this will proceed from these immortal believers and Christ.

Incidently hoping not to add too much, how do you read "heavenly" in the following concerning Abraham? Will Abraham receive the promise of the land?
Hebrews 11:10, 16 (KJV): "10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

Howdy Silver Surfer, I do not keep the Sabbath as it was kept under the Law of Moses, but believe that Jesus is the true rest Matthew 11:28-30, and the 1000 years is also another aspect of the true rest Hebrews 4.

Kind regards
Trevor