Hi,

Save yourself for the one that God has saved for you!

Ask the Lord if He has someone saved for you and if He does, then he's already yours and you're cheating on him if you sleep with someone else.

Then your relationship with the Lord comes into play.  Are you sure the Lrod has someone saved for you?

It's not easy unless you are in walking with the Lord, and your reasons for not happily hopping in bed with folks are because you don't want to make the Lord sleep with them.  Remember, the Lord is living inside you.  You hop in bed with someone, the Lord goes with you.  

Our poor Lord, I love Him so much but it took awhile for me to get the Celibacy thing down pat.  I messed it up a few times.  

There's the idea of value that you have.  If you could understand the value of your own body, you wouldn't share it so easily with just whoever wants to use it for his own self-gratification.

The scriptures I used were: 1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual[1] act of worship.

We're supposed to be using our arms and legs and mind and heart to serve the Lord.  
1 Thessalonians 4

Living to Please God

1Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. 2For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body[1] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 7For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
9Now about brotherly love we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other. 10And in fact, you do love all the brothers throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers, to do so more and more.
11Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, 12so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.


There were others too.  I would love to say that I'm so smart or that I have such great will power or say this or that because I've managed this so well.  but actually, it's the Lord's doing.  

Grace & God's Joy be your strength

Be Free In the Lord,

First you have to ask God to give you strength everyday.  Ask God to make Himself visible in YOUR life, that way you can feel encouraged.  Don't let the burden of their unbelief weigh you down.  It's not your job to bring them to the Lord but the Holy Spirit's job.  You do have to witness, but always remember that Actions speak louder than words, so its perfectly acceptable to witness with your actions.  Only use words when necesary.

About the family problems, I have no clue.  I get so tired of unbeleivers purposely trying to point out that I have problems, they don't need to be in your family to do that.  AS IF my problems would prove my my God is not powerful, or not existent or not listening or whatever other NOT can be thought of.  Happens more often than I want to admit.

Remember, when it boils down to each of them making a decision and then when they KNOW they chose wrong, and they knew right from wrong, Christianity will be attacked because sometimes folks attack Christianity thinking that if Christianity goes away, the wrong thing that they did will no longer be wrong.

Good Luck.

[Romans 8:28]

Romans 8:28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

AllinAll,

My point here isn't as much about women in leadership roles, in any particular place, but Legalism vs. Grace.

So, you've missed my point.  At least, since you aren't arguing about my point, then I'll supposed you've missed my point.

BUT FIRST!    I must defend my position about Adam's blaming.  Here is the exact text:

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me-she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

Adam could have answered "Yes" to God's question.  But he didn't.  Instead he says, "The woman you put here with me-she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."  As IF he needed no repentance.

How is it unbliblical that I, as a woman, would look at that example and find out that it's probably a GOOD idea not to go around getting man to do something, because if it's WRONG, when God asks him about it, he might blame the woman???  Are you not supposed to learn lessons from the Bible.

What's so unbiblical about that?

(I know that the Holy  Spirit talks to men's hearts, and the Holy Spirit will lead them in the right direction.  There's a big difference between a woman focusing on her own behavior because it's pleasing to God, and a woman focusing her own behavior because she's manipulating man.  I'm against manipulation tactics that are designed to manipulate people.  The negative way of getting men's behavior to change.)

I might add,  And you can use this against me if you want; Did you notice how much Eve's response resembles Adams?  Do you think she was following his example?

Now, an unbiblical principle you threw forth?  Allinal, a man, teaching an unbiblical principle--why some men shouldn't teach in church???  No where from the beginning of the Bible until after the eating of the Apple did God make Adam the leader and Eve the follower.  No where.  At least I've read it over and over and I don't see it.  

If you find it and post it, I will stand corrected.

And after that, God didn't make Adam the leader and Eve the follower.  I might add, that the curse was that Adam would be her desire, what kind of curse is that?

And that man would rule over her.  That's part of the curse.  Are curses, usually God's ordained plan from the beginning.  

Wouldn't you say that having a man rule over you is a curse?  The Bible says its a curse.  But if a man is your desire, then there's no harm in pleasing him is there?  My pleasure and my desire are more in order.  Bossing people around is an entirely different topic then isn't it?

Well, I hope you answer because I can't wait to hear what you say.

Allinall, don't you get tired of people arguing to be right or wrong?  I'm not arguing to be right or wrong.  I actually like to discuss these things.  Like in a discussion.  I don't want to argue.

Grace!

 

I have no clue about marriage.  My own husbands only goals in life were to get more money and buy more stuff to impress more people.  His goals in life were to impress people with possessions.  I wasn't a Christian, but those weren't my goals.  I decided I had enough of his greed and I moved on.

Personally, in life, in the real world and in this day and age, the mass majority of men have goals that don't revolve around Christ.  Some Christians instead of being Salt and Light in the world are huddled in Christian basements and secret Christian hideouts, I'm sure never experience the real world, never met a selfish greedy man in their whole life, I am sure.  

As women in Christ and under grace, I will consistently, profess that legalism in this submission issue is unwise.  I don't say I know everything about marriage, but I do know quite a bit about legalism.

Legalism is when you've got your mind on rules and your heart off of Christ, who is the One we're supposed to be following.

Of course, there's always the danger that someone will in their selfish motives say that their mind is on Christ when they don't want to cooperate or submit, and there's always the danger that men that want their way, though it may be wrong, insist on submission.

The scriptures says, "HUSBANDS SUBMIT TO YOUR WIVES"

Which to me says that there's some kind of team work that's supposed to be happening in marriage.  It's not a one way street.

Anyway, none of my insistence is directly related to marriage.

My issue of women in leadership roles is about GRACE.  

Clearly, in the past and to this day evil men will abound.  They will.  It happens.  Clearly, in the past God has raised up Female leaders and in His Mighty Hand He may do it again.  It will be the legalists that will attack her.  And like the Pharisees they'll be fighting against God.  People that say that God cannot raise up a female leader are legalists.  That's my whole point.

Grace

 

I would think donkeys would be too dumb to get in a circle anyway.    Tis the principle of the matter. . . .

Heidi,

Don't get down about Jesus.  I don't know if you saw my post the other day, "Robbers of Hope and Theives of Joy"  It's like, Lord Have Mercy!  Are you sure you're in control?  Why is it that some folks are so adament about their religion?  

You just have to remember, the Pharasees--they didn't change.  They crucified Christ.

You have to remember, the Deciples Took FOREVER to catch on to Jesus' mission.

personally, I ventured off into a conversation with someone that didn't have not one iota of belive in Christ, and suddenly by comparison, Catholics are wonderful!!    It's true.  At least you can agree on some things.  In addition, a few years back, I so much longed to join the catholic church so I could be come a nun.      I'm weird.  You have no idea.  The nun life sounds so exciting to me.  But I'm too big a sinner and the Catholics wont have me.    

I always watch Mother Angelica on the Catholic Channel, and I love her.  Then I have to wonder why so many folks say it's wrong to teach in church.  She's pretty smart.  I just don't pray to the Virgin Mary but instead, I go ahead and ask Jesus to ask her to pray to Him for me.  

I can't seem to quit smoking.  I still use curse words when I'm not careful.  I don't like the Pope.  But besides those things, I don't have that big a problem with Catholics.

One thing I do know, how do you think the Christians of old that couldn't read and write got along in life?  How do you think the peasants that couldn't make it to church in years got along?  You don't have to know everything to have Christ in your heart.

I know God forgives us for not knowing everything and I know God forgives us for knowing too much--or believing stuff that isn't true.  As long as we understand that we are sinners and by Christ's atonement on the cross we are saved.  And there's people in the world so happy about Christ's work on the croos that if you tell them they have to do all this extra stuff, then they'll do it.  I think it's sad that those folks have to do all this extra stuff, and I sure would like to tell them its not necesary, but I don't think it will come between the saved and Christ on judgement day.  Sometimes I think if I were a bit more humble, I would go along with a whole lot of stuff that I refuse to go along with.

I completely disagree with Michael on at least a hundred things, but I think he's a sweetie.    Because if you noticed, no matter how provoked he gets, he never starts taking evil stabs at people. Have you noticed?  Well, maybe with you, but he gets tired of arguements, but I noticed the stuff he says is for the most part, not attacking you, but your words.  He wants you to just agree so he can be happy.    We know that wont happen.  But You want him to agree with YOU.  We know that wont happen.  So what then?

Peace

I'm reposting a post from Judgenot because I liked it so much!

"I keep seeing these Catholic vs. Protestant vs. Catholic vs. Protestant threads, and I try to keep up with the debates - but I have a question: So – what is this – Northern Ireland?

As I grew up I rarely listened to the news.  We didn’t have a TV until I was seven, and then I was intent on ‘Sky King’, ‘The Three Stooges, ‘Lassie’ and ‘The Lone Ranger’ – never news.  But one on-going story that sticks in my mind was (is) violence in Northern Ireland.  Protestants were killing Catholics, and Catholics were killing Protestants, around and around it went.  When I was in grade school (early sixties) it was as predominant as what we hear on the news today:  Muslims killing Jews and Jews retaliating.  

I remember feeling sick and wondering – “don’t Catholics and Protestants each believe in Jesus?  Why are they hurting each other?  Why don’t they just stop?”  

My naivety continues to this day.  “Why do Protestants and Catholics do this to each other?”  

I can only ascertain that it is due to foolishness.  The book of Proverbs has much to say about ‘fools’ and to not argue with ‘fools’ (it is a waste of time!).  

I will not get involved on one side or the other in this ongoing argument – other than to say if a man has Jesus living in his heart, then it makes no difference how that man chooses to worship Him.  When Jesus is truly living in a man’s heart – I mean really, really living there – then that man’s worship of Him cannot be wrong.  

Now; I’m sure there are advocates of one side or the other of this subject who will tell me that I am the ‘fool’ of which the book of Proverbs speaks.  That if I wasn’t a ‘fool’ I would see, understand and agree with their particular point of view.  

Fine.

Consider me a fool if you wish.

I consider anyone who demonstrates in favor of the FACT that Jesus is God and only through HIM are we saved, as the real winner.  Anyone who demonstrates opposition to that Biblical fact is the loser.  

Forgive me Lord for being angry.  But to be perfectly honest – this bickering makes me sick to my stomach.  Either Jesus is the head of your church (your heart) or He isn’t – no matter if the sign over the door of the church you attend says Catholic or Protestant.  It doesn’t matter if you consider the pope, Ellen White, Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham or Joseph Blough as your teacher of choice – if Jesus is leading you then you win.  

If you disagree with that fact - then, perhaps you are arguing on the wrong forum?

Enough said. I'll not interupt the flow of this thread again.

Carry on.  
JudgeNot"
 
 
 

Hi Heidi!

   Good to see you!  

Did you notice that the Pharisees NEVER agreed with Christ.  

Instead they crucified Him.  

But did you also notice it Christ's very deciples a LOOOOOOOOOONG time to get the true meaning of Christ's mission too.

The deciples were all busy thinking they were going to be the greatest in the kingdom and what not.  When you think about it long enough, it leaves you completely understanding why Christ had to die.  

So, when we see folks that just seem SOOOOOOO FAAAAR away from Christ that its pitiful, remember how many years the deciples walked with Christ and didn't get it.

You know what, I think it takes true suffering and true compassion to finally get passed legalism.

I feel sorry for the people without outward signs of sin because they could easily spend their whole lives and never really understand grace.

You can keep arguing if you wish, but don't ever let it get personal.  If it gets to a point where it gets personal, then stop.  It's not worth it to get your feathers ruffled over some things.

For many people, if they doubt any part of their church's teachings, they could be excommunicated.  Not only that, but their church is the source of their self-esteem.  Not only that but some people's identity isn't in Christ, it's in the social group that they call church.  There's a whole lot riding on them changing their doctrinal position.  Their identity would change and they wouldn't know who they were.  They'd have to doubt themselves.  There's so much to what they believe in and its weaved in all their decisions and relationsips and all that they've done.

Me, there's not much riding on whether or not I change my beliefs.  One thing I do know, is that Legalism will get you in a whole lot of trouble.  

Peace

Posted by Sincereheart over in the Women Only Section.  

Beware The Mule!

By Lane Palmer
Director of Equipping
Have you ever noticed that many Christians have lost their ‘horse sense’?

Dare 2 Share - I’ve read that when a group of thoroughbred horses face attack from an outside enemy, they get together in a circle facing each other- then they kick out at the attackers using their hind legs.
Donkeys, on the other hand, do just the opposite. They circle up, facing the enemy, and use their hind legs to kick each other!

Good move guys…nothing scares an enemy away faster than when you start beating each other up. . . .

LOL  

 

Hello Fellow Believers in Christ,

Why is it that we're so mean to each other?

I remember when I was a child, my half-sister and I used to fight and argue and pull eachother's hair out and chase each other around the house and throw things at each other and generally be mean.  

Her mom told us that when she got home from work she better not find out that we had been fighting or else we wouldn't be going to the movies.  Again, after school we were fighting as usual,, the three to five PM war of the siblings.

Then, at the last minute when we heard her pull into the drive way we both instantly decided that we weren't going to fight anymore.  Matter of fact we wrapped our arms over each other's shoulders and we went out to greet her.  Big smiles on our faces.  Both of us releeeeeeived the other of us decided to stop fighting because we didn't want to miss the movies.  It took both of us to agree not to fight.  It didn't mean she was right and it didn't mean I was right.  It meant there's something more important than whatever petty things we were fighting about.

At that moment I realized that sometimes the fighting is worth putting away because there's a greater cause at hand.  In that case, it was the movies.  In our case, isn't it Jesus.  He said He wanted others to know that we belong to him why the way we love each other.  What part of our doctrine is more important than Jesus' request for us?

I know some people love their doctrine more than Jesus.  And some people love their church more than Jesus.  that's fine.    But we can't let them get away with it!!    I'm joking here.  But for those of us who love Jesus most, must we get in the last word?  It doesn't mean that the other person was right if we just don't answer a post.  It doesn't make us wrong either.  When you get to the point where you danced and danced around a subject, and you've got your rant in, and you've explained it to the best of your ability.  And the other person is of the SAME opinion still, then let it go.

That's what I'm thinking.

Peace

[You don't know how happy you are until you've experienced true misery.]

 

It's your remarks that got me on a tangeant.  I'm sorry, I can tell now that you're not debating anymore, you're taking it personally.  Don't take it personally.  I don't even know you.  You shouldn't, at least in my opinion feel bad about anything I say.  Don't feel bad.

What makes me think you feel bad is that you're saying I shouldn't say anything until I'm married.  And MY impression is that you're taking a stab  . . .there were a few others that I thought were stabs.

But what I interpreted as a stab that makes me think you're upset is that you keep pointing out that I'm single--as if I'm so unhappy about it.  I'm DIVORCED.  And I wake up every morning praising God that I'm divorced.  Actually, I got separated in 1995.  And when I found Christ, then I had someone to thank that I'm not with my husband anymore.  It requires praise.  You don't know how happy you are until you've experienced true misery.  

Anyway, that's neither here nor there.    I know that you're upset and I don't want you to be upset.  There's no reason to be upset.  None.  It's not even you my rant is directed at.  Not you personally.  It's the whole world that weighs people down with burdens.  At least in Christianity we could overlook each other when we don't reach the intended goal of perfection.  I like to rant and argue and then I hurt people's feelings, it's sometimes not worth the arguement.

There's no sense in arguing if your feelings are going to get hurt.  

Actually, its for your own freedom that I was arguing with you.  Now, suppose your husband went mad and he told you to steal a car.  Now, you would have it at the back of your mind that men can lead you into sin and that submitting to him in everything is conditional on whether he's submitting to Christ--you might save yourself prison time.  And if whether or not he's submitting to Christ becomes an issue, there's probably already other sins greater than not submitting involved.  It's a matter of love and trust and walking with Christ.  It's not a matter of following an instruction booklet.

Peace

 

How old are you?

If you're not of the age, you need professional help.  What state are you living in?  I can find out someone for you to call.  Will you get in troulbe if you call someone?

Pray.  

Response to Sincereheart's comments:

My quote:  "Remember Ladies, we're dealing with the male ego, Christian or unchristian.  When men get all in an uproar and start getting legalistic about things, that's when we know their own spirit is not in check.  And women know better then men about the male ego and how a man's head swells so just for that reason God does raise up Godly female leaders."

Your smart answer: "Wow. However did you learn so much about men? "

My smart answer: "20 brothers.  You'd think I'd figure out a thing or two by now.

My quote:  "In Christianity there are neither male nor female, we're all supposed to be equal.  But it's almost like the human spirit doesn't want to embrace equality.  There's lots of Christians running around that would love to use Christianity to make themselves feel better about themselves.  Then they start getting out scriptures that point to women's roles of being submissive and quiet.  I think that they're taken out of context...."

Your response: "Sounds more like you're trying to use Scripture to feel better about yourself~   What the Bible says isn't really what it means? It was only for that time? While you throw out Paul's writings, do you also dismiss Proverbs 31?"

My response:  In God I am complete.  Even if I'm dumb and rebellious, God still loves me.    But I'm neither dumb nor rebellious, I'm just not groveling in darkness bound by legalism because I know my identity in Christ, the Truth that sets us Free.  I don't dismiss Paul's writings, I'm getting to the principle of the matter of Paul's writings.  Where as you are hung up on his exact words and phrases, I'm focused on point he was trying to make.  Paul was trying to make a point.  apparently, some have missed it.

Your quote:  "Wow. Sounds like a whole lot of control and pride issues."

Yes there is a whole lot of control and pride issues.  I'm saying that men have them and you've fallen into the trap of them by missing Paul's point.

Your  quote:  "And a lot of what you think versus what the Bible says."  

The Bible has to be taken as a whole and it is an instrument by which you learn about God.  Not a rule book to live out Pharisees' fantasies of living out every rule and missing that Christ that sets you free.

Your quote:  "Following what you think would lead to a whole lot of confusion and chaos which is exactly opposite of what Scripture lays out."  Are you saying that freedom in Christ causes confusion.  ?

Your quote: "In Christ we ARE equal."

Now you're talking

Your quote: "In a job or a marriage we are assigned certain duties. Why constantly try to circumvent that? Maybe a third option is just to be self-employed."

You supposed I'm trying to circumvent it. But really, it's because I refuse to be legalistic about things.

I AM self-employed.  I'm an independent contractor.    

 

Sincereheart,

I'm reading over more of your post.  I think you're giving yourself and women too much credit and POWER over men.  In your words above about how a women tears her house down, you're saying this woman has all this power over this man.  It's her fault that he's not doing the Lord's work.  In essence, you're TELLING WOMEN to use power over men.

If you were sincere in your heart about women not having power over men, you would know to NOT even try to posses any power over a man.

I'll tell you what, I have over 20 brothers.  Woohoo!  That's a lot.  And I will tell you what else--THEY KNOWWW, when they are being manipulated.  I hate it when Christian women give other Christian women Minipulation techniques on how to get men to do stuff.  It doesn't matter HOW you slice it!!  You're saying, "the way to get your man to do this or that or that other thing . . ."  That's not submission.  

Long before I gave any validity to the Bible or any of Paul's words, I found out that any and ALL systems that manipulate, trick, work in such a way, say in such a way, do in such a way, act in such a way, behave in such a way so that man will do this or that--ALL of it is in vain.  Because what we really want is a man's HEART.  We want his very heart.  We don't want his behavior.  At least, I don't want a man's behavior.  I'm not saying in a spouse, I mean any man.  The only thing of value is what's in his heart.  And the only person that can change a man's heart is God through love.  You can get your man to behave in such a way, but only as long as he's within your range of vision and hearing.  Wait 'till you're gone, then see what he does.  He'll do stuff purposely if he was controlled by you, he'll do stuff purposely to prove that you don't controll him, albeit, he might only do it when you're not around.

I found out that any and ALL systems that manipulate, trick,

work in such a way,

say in such a way,

do in such a way,

act in such a way,

behave in such a way so that man will do this or that--ALL of it is bad marriage counsel.  Because men know when they are being manipulated.  Even if Paul didn't say a darn thing in the whole entire Bible about submission I WOULD still swear by it.  What matters is that its a true fact God wants men to do the right thing because its in their heart.  You know what, it's not in a whole lot of men's hearts to take out the trash.  So, take it out yourself.

The truth is in a man's heart is not in it, no behavior is good enough, so why try to manipulate his behavior.  A wise woman does all these things for her home, she doesn't try to figure out how to manipulate her husband into doing things for her home.

Anyway, I'm not offering marriage counsel, I'm just saying that manipulation tactics are the same thing is not submitting and behavior strategies are the same thing as not submitting--either way you're still trying to get your man to do the things that YOU see fit, which is not submitting.

Peace