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287025 Posts in 27572 Topics by 3790 Members
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1  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Sabbath Day on: November 10, 2003, 01:26:09 PM
...
I really feel sorry for people who only have the Sabbath to worship Almighty God and have fellowship with our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ fulfills the Sabbath in the hearts of HIS willing children every day. There are seven days in every week to worship Almighty God, and there are seven days in every week to fellowship with our Lord and Saviour who lives in our hearts.
...

Quote
BEP, it amazes me you are so adamant about not keeping the Sabbath. I have to agree completely with your statement that "There are seven days in every week to worship Almighty God, and there are seven days in every week to fellowship with our Lord and Saviour who lives in our hearts," but who said keeping the Sabbath limited a person from worshipping Jesus only that one, and not the other six days. If a person do that, I would agree completely with you.

It sounds as if you have a personal vendetta against it. Are you afraid that curious is being a judiazer, as the Roman Catholic Church was in the beginning of its organization?

Is it so bad to lay one day aside, and put all of your worldly afairs (or as much as possible) aside, and dedicate that day to God only. Yes, we should dedicate every day to God with all of our hearts, so why not a day that has no interruptions. We are human, and it sounds like with your perspective, you have no trials. If that is so, then more power to you, but if you are human, a day of rest from everything worldly (that we can), and a refreshing of God's ultimate plan does a body good.

...
Jesus Christ fulfilled the law on the cross, and the Gospel of God's Grace was made manifest to mankind as a GIFT of LOVE in and through Jesus Christ. A child of God has no need to know what day it is. HIS WORK for HIS children was finished at the CROSS. I have been bought, paid for, and belong to Jesus Christ 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I have been delivered, set apart, and have the SEAL of the Holy Spirit on and in my heart. Every day is the Sabbath, and HE is in me, and I am in HIM. I am part of HIS BODY, THE BODY which is a CHURCH not made with human hands. This work is complete with total perfection IN AND THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, our Personal Lord and Saviour. All GLORY goes to ALMIGHTY GOD and none for man.
....

Quote
There is no doubt that you belong to Jesus if you have done the things he said to, but it sounds like when you say the law is fulfilled, the law is done away with. Thats a whole topic in and of itself.

I guess I just dont understand why BEP and BL 's idea can't meld with the Sabbath also. Why can't we rest in God 24x7x365 and every 7th day, keep a day only and wholly for Him. To put it another way, we should have what people call "the Christmas spirit" all year long, so does that mean you should not observe it because of you guys' line of thinking.*

In peace and prayer,
Jason

* The Xmas example was only for example and did not personally mean to validate it.

2  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Sabbath Day on: October 27, 2003, 02:55:35 PM
...
Quote:
It sure sounds like some on here have no real desire of wanting to hear the Masters Words of.. "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMANTS"


I don't think anyone here questions that Jesus said that. And certainly none of us begrudge Him saying it. But so far no one has shown us where Jesus insisted we keep the orignal sabbath or were bound by the Law. Instead, He summed up the new law for us in two commands. Love God- Love each other. And that, to me, is black and white. (And red in some cases...  )
...

Dear JtB,

These next posts could go off on a million different sub-topics pertaining to God's Law and Jesus's Law as you have sub-divided, but I have to ask you, if we love God, what are the things we do for him, for we are certainly never saved by works through God's grace, but what is our 'resonable service' to be a servent of God. ( I have read your posts before about works and grace, and if I remember correctly you firmly believe that there are certain things a Christian should do, for "faith is dead without works" and so on...)

Rom 12:1   I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Is the Sabbath important anymore? I do believe it is. We could go into the whole "no jot nor tittle," but what about the description of the Sabbath back in Exodus...

Exd 31:16   Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.  
Exd 31:17   It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.  

If it was perpetual, then it was forever. How is a major thing like the Sabbath, the day God Himself rested from his creation, 'get fulfilled' by Jesus's Death? There is no doubt that he fulfilled prophesy by dieing, but how can one say he fulfilled the Sabbath which is a sign for his people. Yes, the two commandments you mentioned are the two big commandments, but you forgot the next verse of that quote:

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I think if anything, by Jesus coming to the earth he made the Law (part of which is the Ten Commandments) enriched, to make it ever more applicable...just like the example he gave about thinking about another Man's wife is a sin, even if you do not "do" it.

Jesus may fulfill the Sabbath one day, when there is no need to distinguish his people (the Sabbath distinguished the Israelites from the rest of the nations back then) - who knows, but just as Jesus said to follow his example, he taught at the synogogue on the Sabbath... it was his custom, and I am moved to follow that.

John the Baptist, I dont want to argue, I want to discuss and reason out of the Word of God. I do believe Jesus changed the law, but not in that it does not apply to us (by fulfilling or not), but in that it applies to us even more.

Peace
Jason

3  Theology / Apologetics / Re:3 days n 3 nights on: October 27, 2003, 02:17:46 PM
I have done a little homework, and when Passover is done is quite a debate. The basic thing is that Jesus was our Passover, and was killed at the same time the Passover lamb itself was killed (That may be our misunderstanding). In order to do that, the killing of the lamb/Sacrificing of Jesus had to be done on the 14th during the daylight hours (around noon-afternoon or so - there is a whole debate on that also). One would think then that you could not eat the Passover lamb the same night (the night that began the 14th day) Jesus observed the Passover (or Last Supper some call it) because the lamb was not yet killed (it was killed during the daylight hours, after that night, while Jesus died on the cross).

Quote
Sure, the Jews observed the feast on any part of the day that it was to be kept on, but how can that be related to Jesus giving us a time element relating how long he will be in the "belly of the earth". This makes Christiananity out to be a scam, because the only sign Jesus gave to the Pharisees was that he will be in the tomb three days and three nights. PhilKosba has a darn good point in asking the question.

It is hard to believe that God would 'kinda' fulfill his word, by saying " well, I will count part of the day as part of the night also." God is an awesome God, and he does not half-heart anything. If His Son says 3days and 3 nights, then we must be the ones that are wrong thinking He was only there for 3 parts of the day, and 2 nights. I am not saying that Jesus is not Jesus at all, what I am saying is the idea that Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday does not add up.

-Elmer Glue


Well, I don't how else I can to explain  to you, the Bible is clear to teach He died on the day before the SABBATH and He rose on the FIRST DAY of the WEEK.

What day would you,  like to say Jesus died on, and rose on??

You didn't really address the whole matter of the quote you quoted from me. That quote asks you do you believe Jesus would 'kinda' fulfill 3days and 3nights by doing only 3 days and 2nights.

Secondly, he did die on the preparation day, denoting the next day to be a sabbath, but then how did both Mary's buy spices and prepare them "over the weekend" when they were at Jesus's crucifixtion all day the day you are calling Friday, and then deliver them Sunday morning before the sun rose.

Mar 16:1   And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the [mother] of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.  
Mar 16:2   And very early in the morning the first [day] of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (KJV - please see other versions for their sentence structure)

Thirdly, the Bible never tells us when Jesus rose from the grave, all we know 1) he is supposed to be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, and 2) he was not in the sepulchre Sunday morning before sunrise.

If Jesus says the cock will crow after denouncing him 3 times, then the cock is not going to crow after 2!

How does anyone add "3 Days and 3 Nights" up?

4  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Sabbath Day on: October 20, 2003, 02:11:22 PM
I have to say, Petro, I enjoy reasoning from the scriptures with you. It seems I am always replying to a "Petro" entry. You seem very knowledgeable, and I thank you for participating in this forum.

It is inconsistant to say the they kept the passover if they ate it on the 15th day, what, or how is it, you believe they kept the passover a totally separate feats day from the feats days that followed, one day later which would be the beging of a new feast of seven days, if you go back to Leviticus and read it very carefully, you will see, the the feast of unleavened brerad begins on the 15th day of the same month and lasts seven (sabbath) days, please focus on verse 5 and 6.

By adding 1 passover sabbath day to 7 unleavened bread sabbath days, we have a total of 8 sabbath days begining with the 14th day of the month of Nissan.

Why is that strange that there should be a seperate Feast one day right after the other, how is that inconsistant. As my earlier post said, the Children of Israel ate the lamb in the night of the 15th (which yes, would have been the 1st day of Unleavened Bread), right after they killed the lamb in the evening on the 14th. Your post is somewhat confusing in that you are saying it does not make sense the Passover is before Unleavened Bread, but how else can it be. I am not sure of the point you are trying to make. Let me put up the scripture you said to read carefully, and tell me where I am going astray.

Lev 23:5   In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.  
    Lev 23:6   And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.  

Now maybe the confusion is coming from when you eat the passover. The Passover service was that service that Allinall seemed to describe very thoroughly. Now when you eat the passover as it says in Exodus...

   Exd 12:6   And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.  
    Exd 12:7   And they shall take of the blood, and strike [it] on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.  
    Exd 12:8   And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; [and] with bitter [herbs] they shall eat it.  

Am I reading this wrong? It seems at least that they ate that "night of the 14th", but in God's eyes, that of course was the 15th (because the new day begins at sundown).


And as to the idea that Unleavened bread is seven sabbaths, please read the note I left on the "3 days and 3 Nights" post concerning Pentecost/The Feast of First Fruits.


....
The scriptures at Heb 3,4:10, speak of another day with regards to the rest of the people of God.

Jesus arose on the first day of the week, could this be the new Sabbath??
...

Whoa, I never heard this before. Please explain what you mean by a 'new Sabbath.' If God changed the sabbath from the Seventh Day to the First, then that is pretty important (expecially since the Sabbath and His Holy Days were a perpetual (forever) covenant with God's people). Please elaborate, especially since this what this post is all about.
5  Theology / Apologetics / Re:3 days n 3 nights on: October 20, 2003, 01:43:49 PM

The passover feast (considered a sabbath day)  was to be observed on the 14th Day of the first Month, and we can ascertain that on  the year Jesus was crucified, this day, fell on a friday (by our calendar) which was the sixth day of the week, according to verses in Lk 23:54 below, it was the day before the seventh day Sabbbath, and this Sabbath was one day before the day Jesus arose from the grave; Thefirst day of the week, according to Luke 24:1
….

I cannot find anywhere where the bible refers to Passover day as a Sabbath. Now the first day of unleavened bread is for sure a Sabbath day thanks to the scriptures you provided of Lev 23.


You can see that the Passover Sabbath Feast was followed by seven days of Sabbaths of the feasts of unleavened bread, according to verse:

15  And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:


I am sorry to point this out Petro, but I believe you have just taken out of context what God is talking about. The seven Sabbaths that God/Moses are talking about here is seven weekly Sabbaths, not the days of unleavened bread. Unleavened Bread itself does not begin 'necessarily' on a weekly Sabbath. If you will read further on down, you will see that Pentecost ( or otherwise known as the Feast of Firstfruits) (Pente standing for 50) was on the day after the seventh weekly Sabbath (7 weeks times 7 days plus 1 = 50 days).

The "wave-sheath offering” was performed on the weekly Sabbath that occurred within the Feast of Unleavened Bread, mentioned in Lev 23:15. The days during the Feast of Unleavened bread were not Sabbaths, only the first day, the 15th of Nisan.  

Lev 23:16   Even unto the morrow after the seventh Sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.  
Lev 23:17   Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; [they are] the firstfruits unto the LORD.  


….
So included in this sixth day, at evening Jesus ate the passover feast, with His disciples, was betrayed by Judas Iscariot, tried by the religious leaders, taken before Pilate and condemned to death by His own people, inspite of being found innocent, and finally crucified.

Jesus died on the ninth hour according to; Mathew 27:45 -46.

So, the Passover Feast called the Lords Passover herein, would have been consumed the fourteenth day,  it is easy to confuse oneself with the 14th and  15th day herein (because nothing is said about how to observe the Lords supper herein, it is all covered at Ex 12:11-27) the obeservance of the feast of unleavened bread, is delineated from verses 7 thru 15.


But wait a cotton pickin’ minute here. Jesus was the first one to eat the “Lord’s Passover” actually on the 14th . If you will notice the quoted scriptures from Exodus, the Lamb was to be kept until the 14th, killed that day, and then eaten that night. Because of how God’s calendar works, the night the Children of Israel ate the Passover lamb was the 15th.

    Exd 12:6   And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.  
    Exd 12:7   And they shall take of the blood, and strike [it] on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.  
    Exd 12:8   And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; [and] with bitter [herbs] they shall eat it.  

And this works perfect with the rest of the scriptures, because that means Jesus was crucified during the same time as the Passover lambs were being killed at the temple (on the 14th). Jesus was the world’s Passover Lamb.

….
The sabbath was a feast day, which covered the evening and  morning, which made the whole of the day, so the jews considered any portion of a day to be part of the whole day.

If so, Jesus's first day in the belly of the earth was the sixth day, the second day would have been the seventh week day which is the normal seventh day Sabbath and there is no question this day was the Sabbath or the 15th day of the month, because it also was the begining of seven days of Sabbaths the Feast of unleavened bread,

Thus this is why the jews would not enter the "judgement hall" as written in  John 18:28, beacuse the begining of seven days of Sabbaths as written in Lev 23:6 ;

This is why the Pharisees did not want to gointo the Judgement hall on the night of the 14th the same night Jesus was betrayed, because the next day (starting at sundown) was the 15th, a high Sabbath, the first day of Unleavened Bread.  
….

Sure, the Jews observed the feast on any part of the day that it was to be kept on, but how can that be related to Jesus giving us a time element relating how long he will be in the “belly of the earth”. This makes Christiananity out to be a scam, because the only sign Jesus gave to the Pharisees was that he will be in the tomb three days and three nights. PhilKosba has a darn good point in asking the question.

It is hard to believe that God would ‘kinda’ fulfill his word, by saying “ well, I will count part of the day as part of the night also.” God is an awesome God, and he does not half-heart anything. If His Son says 3days and 3 nights, then we must be the ones that are wrong thinking He was only there for 3 parts of the day, and 2 nights. I am not saying that Jesus is not Jesus at all, what I am saying is the idea that Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday does not add up.

-Elmer Glue
6  Theology / Apologetics / Re:My Favorite Web-Sites And Studies on: October 06, 2003, 07:10:14 PM
A4C,

So I am a little confused on how works fall into your beliefs. Are you suggesting that we as Christian should not do works because we will fall into the trap that we will think that we earned our salvation. You are obviously very enthused on this subject, so I would love some input.

So are there different categories of works that you are trying to describe?:
1. works that one will do and think they earn salvation, and
2. works that one will do because they are saved.

Could you describe both if both exist (and for that matter how they differ), because if anyone is a Christian, then you would think that because God gave you this amazing gift, that you will try to do good works since I would feel almost indebted?Huh
7  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Jesus on the cross on: October 06, 2003, 06:35:44 PM
I myself, since becoming a Christian, have never been real comfortable with Christmas; but I think that has more to do with the way it is done, as to whether we should or not. I believe God sees what is in our heart when we come together with family and friends to celebrate His birth.
From the passages below, I would have to venture it is possible to do something that even though it is in His name, that it still is not God's Will. I would venture further to say it is a matter of whether we do it or not. What do you think?

    Mat 7:21   Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  
    Mat 7:22   Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  
    Mat 7:23   And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.  

But the Holy day that has always meant a lot to me as a Christian is easter, for this is when He rose from the dead. If He had not done that, Christianity would be just another religion.

The fact that Jesus died for all of the world's sins does make Christianity unique (and thank God that he did!).

I pose the question as to why easter, though? It was hard for me to find references to it from the early church (of the Apostles day) and they appear not to observe it...

(please note that I did find the below scripture with the word 'easter' (in the KJV), but if you will look at the original Greek, it does appear to refer to Passover.)

Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter(Greek:pasha) to bring him forth to the people.

Lexicon Results for pascha (Strong's 3957)
4) the paschal feast, the feast of the Passover, extending from the 14th to the 20th day of the month Nisan
8  Theology / Apologetics / Re:My Favorite Web-Sites And Studies on: October 06, 2003, 06:00:23 PM
...
Grace is the opposite of works. The two cannot be mixed together in any way. Even the tiniest amount of works destroys grace. Whenever works are involved then it can be said that it is no longer grace. It is 100% grace or 100% works, no mixture of the two is allowed; it is always one or the other.


    Jam 2:17   Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.  
    Jam 2:18   Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.  
    Jam 2:19   Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.  
    Jam 2:20   But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?  
    Jam 2:21   Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?  
    Jam 2:22   Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?  
    Jam 2:23   And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.  
    Jam 2:24   Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.  
    Jam 2:25   Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?  
    Jam 2:26   For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
9  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Fasting? on: October 06, 2003, 05:00:38 PM
When and why?I know a little but iam seeking advice and scripture.Thank you

1. How about today? (There is your 'when'.)
2. Because of the Day of Atonement mentioned here...
(There is your 'why'.)
Lev 23:27 Also on the tenth [day] of this seventh month [there shall be] a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

The word atonement is from the Hebrew kippur which is derived from kaphar which means...

Strong's Strong's 03722)
1) to cover, purge, make an atonement, make reconciliation, cover over with pitch
a) (Qal) to coat or cover with pitch
b) (Piel)
1) to cover over, pacify, propitiate
2) to cover over, atone for sin, make atonement for
3) to cover over, atone for sin and persons by legal rites
c) (Pual)
1) to be covered over
2) to make atonement for
d) (Hithpael) to be covered

and the statement to afflict your souls, comes from (using the tense that is used in)
Strongs #06031
c) (Piel)
1) to humble, mishandle, afflict
2) to humble, be humiliated
3) to afflict
4) to humble, weaken oneself

So by fasting, you certainly humble and weaken oneself. And just think, even though this was mentioned first in the old testament, it could still apply today, because as it is written here:

Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
 
Which this word 'atonement' comes from katallage (Strong's 2643) which means in this context to:
2) adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour
a) in the NT of the restoration of the favour of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ

How perfect for Christians today...
10  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Easter on: October 06, 2003, 04:36:57 PM
Ollie,

I don't undersdtand it, but when you posted the verse where He said to the thief,

"Today you will be with me in paradise"

Somehow or other when put with these other verse, it don't fit, since in your verse He says today.
I have to agree with you Petro, how can Jesus say 'today', when by the other posts, show that he went to hell...?

...that is unless they don't say what they we think they say...
 Huh
11  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Sabbath Day on: October 06, 2003, 04:20:04 PM
This is my very first submission, so if I did not follow proper forum etiquette, I apologize.

Of course the Sabaath Day to God is the Seventh Day.

However, I also pointed out that in the Law of Moses there were other Sabaaths, ordained of God by the mouth of Moses.
1. Right on. There is little doubt that God thinks that any other day besides the seventh is the weekly Sabbath.
2.  God's Holy Days were considered sabbaths, like in this example speaking about the Feast of Trumpets:

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first [day] of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

....
I posted this in another thread and never got much of an answer.

Maybe someone can answer this very question, I believe it would shed light on your question.

"According to the scriptures Jesus ate the passover supper with His disciples (Mat 26:18) in the evening (Mat 26:20) upon finishing the supper and drinking from the fruit of the cup, departed to the Mt of Olives to a place called Gethsemane, where Judas betrayed Him with a kiss and delivered him up, the same day he was crucified, this leaves no doubt it had to be the sixth day.
....
1. Jesus ate this "new testament passover" as some call it a day before the Jews ate theirs. You'll notice in the scriptures preceeding that the Israelites kept the lamb till the 14th and then ate it that *night*, which would really be the 15th, being the first day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (since in God's eyes the days begin at even and end at even) per Lev 23:6.

    Exd 12:5   Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take [it] out from the sheep, or from the goats:  
    Exd 12:6   And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.  
    Exd 12:7   And they shall take of the blood, and strike [it] on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.  
    Exd 12:8   And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; [and] with bitter [herbs] they shall eat it.  

2. Now if you take what you already know about Gods Holy Days being "sabbaths", then what Petro refers to as 'no doubt it had to be the sixth day' could potentially fall on any day of the week, because the Passover day moved around from year to year (speaking only from a position of what day of the week it fell on) by knowing that the next day was a "sabbath" :

Mar 15:42   And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,  
Mar 15:43   Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.  

Which could mean "weekly sabbath" or "holy day sabbath".

...
I was wondering if anybody had an insight into, Jhn 18

26  One of the servants of the high priest, being his kinsman whose ear Peter cut off, saith, Did not I see thee in the garden with him?
27  Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.
28  Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

Note that these chief rulers, did not want to defile themselves, this is the reason why they did not enter into the judgment hall, but that they might eat the passover.

The passover is to be kept the evening of the14th day of the first month, this was established by the Lord and given to Moses to give to the people as an ordinance (Ex 12:5-6,14) to be kept forever.

Why where this men observing passover on the 15th day of the month??

1. The Passover was not a sabbath per Lev 23:4-5. On the other hand, the next day, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, was a Sabbath and a 'high day' (john 19:31).

Jhn 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.  

2. These men (the Pharisees) were eating the Passover on the 15th just as the Israelites did on that first Passover. If you will read the above quotations from Gen 12:5-8, they killed the Passover on the 14th, and then ate it that night which would consequently be the 15th.

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It is plain from the passage, it was already early morning, and passover was ending, (the cock had crowed), hardly any time to kill a lamb and eat the whole passover lamb, with ones family.
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1.   I don't think one could say that Passover was ending because Passover was a whole day, so that morning when the cock crowed, that was still the 14th.

The beauty of this is that when Christ died being crucified to death, this was the same time the Passover Lamb was being killed. How beautiful God works his plan out!

I also have a question for Heidi.
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by keeping 'the meaning of the law' versus keeping 'the letter of the law' and which 'law' are you referring to. Since this particular thread is about the Sabbath, does this mean we are, as Christians, to observe the 'no servile work therein?'
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