Black-eyed-peas, and others,

Glad to see you read my post. For starters, out of necessity, I needed to change my email address from the previous(kintups) to the one you now see, for reasons completely unrelated to this website. I am reorganizing my email addresses. One of them is so full in the provider's database with emails (from many years) that I needed to start over again with a fresh new email address. My kintups70 address is being used now strictly for communication with the homeless advocacy network I communicate with daily. So, feel free to email me personally on the following address at lightpost7000@yahoo.com if your so inclined. I have nothing to hide, and no hidden agendas. I didn't see any real reason to explain my connection with the kintups post. Certainly, I did NOT state that it was not me; I simply stated that in a previous post, kintups stated... So no harm done.

As for Dan Corner's book, I am not soliciting his book. I was recently given a copy of this book by a good friend. I read it with an open mind and open Bible.
As for not needing any other book than the Bible; I agree to a point. Certainly, my faith is built solely upon the written word of God. Yet, isn't it rather ironic that this web site advertises and promotes magazines, books (KP. Yohannans book of which I read years ago, and thought was wonderful!), etc. all of which is found in your average Christian bookstore---not that this is wrong. But who among us would state that we don't use lexicons, concordances, and even biblically-based books regularly to help us think through Scripture and other issues? The average bible college or seminary charges an enormous amount of money for books in an effort to understandTHE book. So I am about doubtful of the strength of your statement.

It is rather strange that you did not comment on the substance of the excerpt that I typed (not pasted!) and no one even bothered to answer the questions that were raised. After all, this is a 'debate forum' or at least is so titled. Why does one become angry when another simply challenges a proposition that has been stated repeatedly; namely that it is unbiblical to say that one can lose their salvation?

If you read my first two posts (under kintups) carefully; please note that I used namely Scripture in support of my arguments. The fact that you state you really don't care about what this book by Corner says tells me pretty clearly that you are not open to true debate, other wise you would have answered the questions raised by Corner in the post.

For those of you wondering, I have absolutely no connection with Dan Corner or his ministry. I've never talked with or met the man. If however, I would have quoted someone in favor of the Calvinistic dogma, I highly doubt that I would have been opposed so sharply. Personally, I don't like the way Corner criticizes other Bible teachers and even in my opinion, villifyng them. To me this is not right. Yet, he does clearly state that he wants no one to perish in their sins because of a false hope. The truth is Scripture admonishes us to "Examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith." If this causes someone to examine themselves then truly this is quite possibly eternally beneficial.

As for quoting from books; fine, I wont do that anymore. However, if anyone else quotes from a book or article(other than the Bible) on this site, even if it is consistent with your beliefs, I would hope that you would just as sharply rebuke them.

Believe me, after years of believing in the 'OSAS' ideology, it made me very uncomfortable too to realize that I may have been wrong on my understanding of this matter. Needles to say, I am not in this to convert people to my way of thinking as some of you may think. But I am seeking to only kindly dialogue with people on this and numerous other issues in my life before God.

Striving for agape,

kintups70/lightpost7000

In a previous post, 'Kintups' cited a book by Dan Corner, entitled, 'The Believer's Conditional Security.' In this book, which incidentally allows for free copying no strings attached so that people will not perish for lack of knowledge; he makes the following thought-provoking comment:

" Ponder This...

OSAS(Once Saved, always saved) people who especially subscrib to the Calvinistic Westminster Confession see no contradiction in saying we can have full assurance now; then turning around to say if we ever fall away from the faith or ever become apostate, even after a convincing testimony, we prove we were never saved as we thought we were!

In other words, if you turn away from Christ at the very end of your life, even after a convincing testimony for Christ of many years, you show at that point in time that your faith was not real, as you thought it was, but only spurious. Then on the other hand, if that same person comes back he may have a real faith after all! But only his spiritual condition at the very end of his life, as he takes his last breath, will reveal if his faith was the saving kind or not.

Though denied, the essence of the OSAS moderate view, embraced by (Bible teacher's name left out) and others, is: If you ever had true faith, you're saved, but you can never really know until the very end of your life that you had true faith to be saved. Again, they are apprehensive to admit to this, but it's consistent with their view. Remember, if their remains any opportunity in time to become apostate, and one does even after a convincing testimony of many years, then he show he was never really saved to begin with, that is, unless he comes back to the Lord.

The bottom line in this is nothing more than double talk about the full assurance that people like (Bible teacher's name left out) says one can have. Salvation assurance, as OSAS adherents understand it, cannot in reality coexist with the possibility of becoming apostate and thereby proving such a person was never saved to begin with, even at the very beginning when he had a convincing testimony! So in spite of what such OSAS proponents may say, they really don't have any salvation assurance at all, except in name only because time still exists for them to possibly become apostate!..."

Very thought-provoking. Would appreciate your comments.

lightpost 7000