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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
287027 Posts in 27572 Topics by 3790 Members
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1  Theology / Debate / Re: a question about free will on: January 23, 2006, 09:29:55 AM
Thank you all again for the help. Pastor Roger, I think now I see what was at least part of the problem. When I read "child of God" and "child of the devil" I was taking it literally in a way, that the devil and God have "sent" people to earth I guess. That it was impossible for a child of the devil to become a child of God because that person was not of God and because of that cannot be of God. I was thinking that the children of God were on earth as sinners and they needed to be found among the children of the devil and saved. This at least in part caused a misunderstanding.

So taking into consideration what I have done in my life, and the circumstances, and the fact that I have at some point in my life accepted Jesus, I may still be saved? It is a strange thought after all this time. I have spent much time doubting my salvation, and have been angry at God and said many things against him. I just hope you guys are right!

Thank you for the help once again!
2  Theology / Debate / Re: a question about free will on: January 21, 2006, 12:52:08 PM
blackeyedpeas, Ive just read your other post after I wrote my previous post. Thank you and others for the welcome. You say that there is no sin that Jesus does not forgive? Does this mean that Judas and Peter were finally saved even though Judas betrayed Jesus, and Peter disowned him? If they were both saved in the end, then who is Jesus speaking to in Matthew 12:31, to Christians, non-Christians, or everyone?

Matthew 12:31 (NIV):
31) And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
3  Theology / Debate / Re: a question about free will on: January 21, 2006, 12:36:11 PM
Thank you all for the input, it is much appreciated.
However, ironically there are some Bible passages that keep me from understanding this fully:
1 John 3:10
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
John 8:42
[ The Children of the Devil ] Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

There was also the parable of seeds being sown in Matthew 13:4-8 (NIV):

4) As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5) Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6) But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7) Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. Cool Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown

Lets suppose someone is a child of the devil, and another is the child of God. Each side is still capable of doing good and doing bad, even if the child is a child of God because of what is written in 1 John 5:19. Given this, is it safe to assume that children of the devil have *no chance* to get into heaven, and that while they may have the ability to do something good (in a secular sense, ie. an atheist giving to charity) they still do not have the free will to choose to obey God because they are children of the devil.
Or lets suppose one is "planted" in an area of shallow soil, he/she quickly grows, but becomes scorched? Is it the seed's fault that it was planted in the wrong place? After all, according to the chapter, *the farmer* scattered the seed. It wasn't the seed's decision where to be placed.

By the way 2nd Timothy, I have asked for salvation and prayed the prayer, and have even had a full body baptism. Over the course of my "Christian walk" there were problems. I also found out that I have a certain mental condition, which made it harder to continue in this walk, especially hard to pray. This is what led me to thinking about free will, because my condition causes me to do things (not neccessarily bad things) that ordinarily I wouldn't do. It is said that with medication the smyptoms could ease up. With this information it seemed apparent that chemicals determine our actions. This also leads me to doubt my salvation because nothing "unclean" can enter heaven. There have also been words spoken, that I wouldn't have spoken ordinarily(theoretically), that were caused by this condition. These certain words said weren't really intentional, but if I'd have full intention of saying them with a clear and "normal" mind, then they would have surely condemned me. My other source of doubt it whether I am responsible for uttering these words, I argue that I may not have said them if my mental state were "normal". This is why I made my second post in another thread about many Christians claiming that Jesus forgives ALL sins.

Thank you for your assistance!
4  Fellowship / You name it!! / something to think about on: January 21, 2006, 10:23:40 AM
The next time a Christian goes witnessing to people, and tells people that Jesus will forgive whatever sin the person has committed, he/she should think twice about whether its true or not. In fact there are 2 sins that Jesus will not forgive, and if Id have known I probably would not have become a Christian, if I still am one. Maybe its good marketing (trap), but its a lie.

1) uttering a word against the Holy Spirit is unforigveable
2) a "real Christian" giving up his cross and never returning to Jesus

There are people who claim that these sins cannot be committed because the end times havent begun as of yet, but there people who have committed them, theyre not so hard to commit, thus my doubt as to whether I am still Christian or not (complicated issue). The sad truth is most people find out about these after joining up. If I have ever been Christian, it would probably have been better if I had become Christian soon before I die. Thats not a fact Im claiming, its only a theory, since I cant tell the future. But it does annoy me how many Christians claim that Jesus forgives everything, while He clearly does not. This fact seems ignored. Anyways, Im not here to debate, its just maybe a "favor" thats worth asking of people who witness to others. Tell the *whole* truth.
5  Theology / Debate / a question about free will on: January 21, 2006, 08:38:31 AM
Hello everyone, I'm new to this site. I came here to ask some questions regarding free will. I don't exactly get the concept of it and the reason Ive come here to ask is because if someone doesn't believe in free will then he doesn't believe that he is responsible for his sins. I'm not sure if I'm a Christian or not for a few reason, one is my lack of understanding on HOW free will can exist. Ive received a list of questions I was given concerning free will, Ive also posted my answers to these questions. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated, especially since I seem like the only guy on earth to dare talk about it. By the way, my aim isn't to "argue" about it, its to have a debate so that I can see whether I have a solution, or whether someone can point out a flaw in my theory. So here are the questions I was given, and my answers to them:

Question1: Do you contend that there are no genuinely free choices in any circumstance?
Question2: Do you contend that every nuance of human emotion is only the simple product of biochemical processes that have been predetermined?
Question3: Are all apparent choices actual choices or merely an illusion of choice?
Question4: Is the predeterminer external or internal to any given individual.

Answer1: There are no free choices.
Answer2: Human emotion = biochemical processes
Answer3: Seems as though we make choices, but the choices are made for us. We don't really make choices.
Answer4: Ultimately it is external. Genetics or „nature” determine some portion of our characteristics, our experiences determine the remainder. Its easy to see how experiences or „environment” can determine who we are. We do what is according to our genetics and environment. If someone is born with an abnormal gene in his DNA, then he might be predisposed to murdering people for example. Its not his/her choice, he/she was just born that way because nature screwed up. This is quite clear. This is from the secular standpoint. From a religious standpoint, either an evil „being” is controlling a person, or a good „being” is, therefore it is external. If neither side is controlling a human, then the neutral „nature” is controlling a human through genes and environment, so it can be both internal and external.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
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