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1  Theology / Debate / THE HOLY SPIRIT - Another Perspective on: December 08, 2005, 08:41:33 AM
The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:19). and the Spirit of the Son (Galatians 4:6). Second Corinthians 3:17 says of the one Spirit, "Now the Lord is that Spirit." The NIV puts it even plainer, for it says, "Now the Lord is the Spirit," and "the Lord who is the Spirit" (verse 18). In short, the Spirit that is resident in Jesus Christ is none other than the Holy Spirit. The Spirit in the Son is the Holy Spirit.

Below are some parallel verses of Scripture which further reveal that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Ghost.

1. The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of old (I Peter 1:10-11), yet we know the Holy Ghost moved on them (II Peter 1:21).

2. Jesus will raise the believer from death (John 6:40), yet the Spirit will quicken (give life to) the dead (Romans 8:11).

3. The Spirit raised Christ from the dead (Romans 8:9-11), yet Jesus said He would raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21).

4. John 14:16 says the Father would send another Comforter, namely the Holy Ghost, yet in John 14:18 Jesus said, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." In other words, the other Comforter is Jesus in another form - in the Spirit rather than the flesh. Jesus explained this in verse 17, saying that the Comforter was with the disciples already, but He would soon be in them. In other words, the Holy Ghost was with them in the person of Jesus Christ, but the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, soon would be in them. Jesus further explained this point in John 16:7, saying that He had to go away or else the Comforter would not come. Why? As long as Jesus was present with them in the flesh He would not he present spiritually in their hearts, but after He physically departed He would send back His own Spirit to he with them.

5. The Holy Ghost abides in the hearts of Christians (John 14:16), yet Jesus promised that He would abide with His followers to the end of the world (Matthew 28:20). Similarly, believers are filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:4, 38), yet it is Christ who dwells in us (Colossians 1:27).

6. Ephesians 3:16-17 says that by having the Spirit in the inner man we have Christ in our hearts.

7. Christ sanctifies the Church (Ephesians 5:26), yet the Spirit does (I Peter 1:2).

8. The Holy Ghost is the promised parakletos in John 14:26 (Greek word translated "Comforter" by the KJV), yet Jesus is our parakletos in I John 2:1 (same Greek word translated "advocate" in the KJV). We should note that the same human writer - the Apostle John - penned both of these verses, so presumably he was aware of the parallel.

9. The Spirit is our intercessor (Romans 8:26), yet Jesus is our intercessor (Hebrews 7:25).

10. The Holy Ghost will give us words to say in times of persecution (Mark 13:11), yet Jesus said He would do so (Luke 21:15).

11. In Acts 16:6-7, the RSV and NIV both equate the Holy Spirit with the Spirit of Jesus.

2  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 08, 2005, 08:05:26 AM
The full Might, Power, and Majesty of ALMIGHTY GOD is:

God the Father

God the Son

and God the Holy Spirit

Yet the THREE ARE ONE!

We are just human beings, part of HIS Creation. The best thing to do is simply accept what the Bible says about ALMIGHTY GOD as being absolute FACT. Simple humans aren't supposed to understand everything about ALMIGHTY GOD, and the Holy Bible clearly tells us that many of ALMIGHTY GOD'S ways are past finding out. No man can look upon the countenance of GOD THE FATHER. Many men have looked at and talked with JESUS CHRIST (THE SON). All true Born-Again Christians have GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT living in their hearts. JESUS CHRIST died on the Cross for our sins, but GOD THE FATHER and GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT did not die on the Cross for our sins. GOD THE FATHER was in Heaven while JESUS was dying on the Cross, and JESUS prayed to Him. When the physical body of JESUS CHRIST died on the Cross, the HOLY GHOST (HOLY SPIRIT) was given up by that dead physical body, and the HOLY SPIRIT still lived. JESUS CHRIST arose from the dead and talked with many witnesses. JESUS told His followers that HE was going to a place that they could not go or follow, but JESUS promised that He would send a COMFORTER. The COMFORTER was and is the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD........................................................



As you said Christ died and the other two God did not died.
My question to you now, where was the Word during the death of Christ? Do you mean that the Word who is Jesus died?
3  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 07, 2005, 07:46:13 PM
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit were clearly mentioned in creation as the CREATOR.

It's really all very simple. The Holy Trinity had no beginning, and they will have no end. We are talking about ALMIGHTY GOD!

Marc, you need to read your Bible and probably use a topic index to learn and understand the truth. Maybe if you see it for yourself in the Holy Bible, you will believe it. Until then, you really need to do some Bible study for yourself. It isn't just a few verses, rather a multitude of verses, and you will need to start in the Old Testament.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 John 1:3 NASB  what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.

God also clearly says He alone the creator, how you understand alone is that plural?

I also read from the Bible this statement "unto God and to the Father", does it mean that God and the Father separately distinct?
4  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 07, 2005, 09:12:54 AM
marc_serv,

Quote
I may come to believe in you that indeed there was a three person of God but it does'nt mean that they simultaneously existed from eternity to eternity.


Are you saying that all three could not be with us all at the same time and still be one?

I mean the three modes of God succedingly acted only in thier time of dispensations, that each of their time dispensation did acted according to their persona description. but in His persona description as God this always remain.

Hmm  ......  "three modes of God". Now you are just starting to get the idea behind the Trinity. However to say that they were not and could not be in existance all at the same time would be to limit the power of God. If I understand you correctly this is what you are saying.

The Bible tells us that Jesus was the Word and was with God from the beginning, that He came down from heaven, at this moment Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God, and the Bible also tells us that He is God. Yet Jesus said during the time He was here on earth that the Father was still in Heaven and prayed to Him. So what you are saying is not even in line with what the Bible tells us.

Never the Oneness limit the power of God we even believed that God not only capable to manifest himself into three He could even manifest into millions. The point here if God of the millions of manifestations how many will and mind as a person of God there could be? Does it mean that one God who manifest into millions there could be a millions of different wills and minds of God. So, in the case of the Son, the Son as God only revealed the person of the Father that is the will and the mind of the Father, and not He has own personality(own will and mind of God apart from the Father.)

The distinction of the Son and the Father only take place during the Incarnation, and if John made the Word and God being distinct just because of his perception of the Incarnation that God separate himself from his humanity and it was apparent during the earthly life of Jesus as Jesus  possesed a weak will to go not with the cup of calvary and  He did not know about his second coming.

About Jesus pray to God, this will be no longer happen after the earthly life of Jesus because Jesus as a Father will now come to hear the prayers of the believers(see John....)

As for Jesus sitting at the right hand of God cannot be literally interpreted, no one actually saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God, even John in Revelation saw everything in heaven but never saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God but instead saw only Jesus with the throne in final chapter of Revltion and Jesus alone sitting at the White Throne judgement.
5  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 07, 2005, 09:10:50 AM
Hmm  ......  "three modes of God". Now you are just starting to get the idea behind the Trinity. However to say that they were not and could not be in existance all at the same time would be to limit the power of God. If I understand you correctly this is what you are saying.

The Bible tells us that Jesus was the Word and was with God from the beginning, that He came down from heaven, at this moment Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God, and the Bible also tells us that He is God. Yet Jesus said during the time He was here on earth that the Father was still in Heaven and prayed to Him. So what you are saying is not even in line with what the Bible tells us.

Never the Oneness limit the power of God we even believed that God not only capable to manifest himself into three He could even manifest into millions. The point here if God of the millions of manifestations how many will and mind as a person of God there could be? Does it mean that one God who manifest into millions there could be a millions of different wills and minds of God. So, in the case of the Son, the Son as God only revealed the person of the Father that is the will and the mind of the Father, and not He has own personality(own will and mind of God apart from the Father.)

The distinction of the Son and the Father only take place during the Incarnation, and if John made the Word and God being distinct just because of his perception of the Incarnation that God separate himself from his humanity and it was apparent during the earthly life of Jesus because possesed a weak will to go not with the cup of calvary and  He did not know about his second coming.

About Jesus pray to God, this will be no longer happen after the earthly life of Jesus because Jesus as a Father will now come to hear the prayers of ours(see John....)
As of Jesus sitting at the right hand of God cannot be literally interpreted, no one actually saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God, even John in Revelation saw everything in heaven but never saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God but instead saw only Jesus with the throne and Jesus alone sitting at the White Throne judgement.
6  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 06, 2005, 02:49:35 PM
During the time of 200-300 A.D. many Christians were trying to formulate and understanding of the nature of God. Tertullian is credited with being the one who coined the term “trinity.” The Nicene Creed in 325 A.D. also seemed to accept a similar view concerning God. The word trinity comes from a compounding of the word three (tri) and unity, therefore “trinity.” The concept of the trinity is generally understood that God is three persons who share one essence. If this were all that the word “trinity” meant, I believe I would be on board with its teaching. But the reason that Alexander and Thomas Campbell, John Calvin, and Barton W. Stone were so strongly against the use of the trinity seems to be twofold.

The doctrine of the trinity led to many to pray to the trinity. Instead of addressing the Father as the one we pray to and Christ being our Mediator to bring our petitions on our behalf, the doctrine led to people blending the three together so strongly that there was no distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The doctrine of the trinity has also led to the other extreme, that is, overemphasizing the individuality of the three. The doctrine of the trinity creates, I believe, too sharp of a distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. What has nearly happened is that the teaching has created an almost polytheism, that there are three separate gods that function completely without the other. Some are teaching that one should only be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and not in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as commanded in Matt 28:18-19. One of the problems with this, and there are many, is that one has created too much of a distinction as if Jesus is a separate God from the Father and Holy Spirit. But I believe the scriptures teach against this as well.

There are clear biblical teachings that tell is that there is one God. Deut 6:4 says,  “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!” Also, in Eph 4:6 we read that there is “one God and Father of all.” In Mark 12:29 we read, “Jesus answered him, ‘The first of all the commandments is: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.” Jesus understood that there is one God and taught that to those who would come to Him.

But this immediately should leave in our minds a dilemma. If there is one God, how is it that Jesus claimed to be God? This, of course, was one of the arguments that the religious leaders in Jesus’ day were using against Him. How could Jesus be God? Make no mistake about it, Jesus claimed to be God, was proven to be God, and the apostolic writers verify that Jesus is God. John 1:1-3 says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” In John 1, the Word is identified as Jesus who came to earth as the light of the world. The multitudes and religious leaders understood that Jesus claimed to be God. In John 5:18, “Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.” Many other passages such as Colossians 1:15-18 and Heb 1:2 verify Jesus to be the creator and in the beginning and therefore God. Again, we must ask the question, how can it be that God is one when we see that Jesus is God and the Father is God?

From the beginning God revealed that there was more than one person that make up God. In Gen 1:1 “In the beginning God….” The Hebrew word for God is “el.” However, that is not the Hebrew word that was used when God described Himself to the world. Instead, He used the Hebrew word “elohim” which is the plural of “el.” This plurality is seen in the word more clearly in Exodus 20:3,  “you shall have no other gods before Me.” The word “gods” is “elohim.” Some suggest that the plurality of the word suggests that is denotes majesty and glory. While this may be true concerning other texts, it cannot be true here because the plurality is more distinct later in Genesis 1. This plurality can even be seen in our own English language in Gen 1:26, “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;” If there were only one person, then these words do not make sense. The sentence ought to read, “Then God said, ‘I will make man in My image, according to My likeness.” But we have already noticed that there was more than one person in the beginning. John 1:1-3 tells us that there the Word was there in the beginning, creating with the Father.

it is as good a time as any to also point out that the Holy Spirit is God also. In Heb 9:14 we read that the Spirit is eternal. In 1 Peter 1:12 we read that, the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven, yet another indication that the Holy Spirit is God. In Acts 5:3-4 we see that Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, which Peter says is lying to God. However, possibly one of the clearest texts is in 1 Peter 1:1-2, “To the pilgrim…, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.” Here we are revealed that there are three persons in God who are active in the salvation of the elect. Now, when I use the word “person,” I do not use it as if they were human. By person I am simply describing an essence with a center of intelligence that is distinct from the other.

Hope this helps you marc_serv.

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Job 6:10 Then would I still have consolation--yes, I would leap [for joy] amid unsparing pain [though I shrink from it]--that I have not concealed or denied the words of the Holy One!

You describe person as an essence with a center of intelligence that is distinct from the other. You mean in the three persons of God each of them possesed an intellect?

Are all of this three intellects of God are all-kowing God??
7  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 06, 2005, 02:30:45 PM
I have a question. If Paul did not believe in a "trinity" or a triune God, then why did he write in Philippians 2 this:

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Is not Paul saying that Jesus Christ is God. If that is so, then it must also be asked, did Paul believe that the Holy Spirit was God? Of course he did. Paul understood that Jesus Christ was God, the Holy Spirit was of God and that God the Father was God. Thus, three-in-one or as Colossians 2 says "For in Him dwells the Godhead bodily" Just a few thoughts.

Joshua

Colosians 2 the verse you qouted only prove the Oneness teaching that the Godhead fully dwells in Christ that made the three all in one in Christ.
Im very sorry to tell you Jemidon2004 that this is not the case being taught by an orthodox Trinitarian because they only believed that Jesus separetly distinct from the other two.
8  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 06, 2005, 02:12:17 PM
marc_serv,

Quote
I may come to believe in you that indeed there was a three person of God but it does'nt mean that they simultaneously existed from eternity to eternity.


Are you saying that all three could not be with us all at the same time and still be one?

I mean the three modes of God succedingly acted only in thier time of dispensations, that each of their time dispensation did acted according to their persona description. but in His persona description as God this always remain.
9  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 06, 2005, 10:22:36 AM
Quote
marc_serv Said:

Okay Pastor, actually I too myself don't know much about the the teaching of Servetus except in his views about the Godhead and Christ nature. I even reject some of his teachings except in his teaching about the Godhead and Christ nature.

I just quoted Servetus in his belief about the Godhead and his against in infant baptism because this was his very core teaching that cause his life. Let us focus to discuss regarding the true nature of Christ as what this my thread emphasized and not to divert the discussion to personal attacks to Servetus.

As you quoted the verse 1John 5:7, really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

Hello Marc_Serv,

I just skimmed one article about Michael Servetus, but I didn't find anything Christian about anything he taught, most certainly including his denial of the Holy Trinity, original sin, and just about everything associated with Salvation. So, in all of the important parts, he was simply a false teacher and nothing more. So, I wouldn't understand why a Christian would choose him as an example for anything, as his teachings were NOT Christian. His teachings look much more like Islam, NOT Christian.

If you're having a problem with the term "Trinity", that simply means three. If you quote 1 John 5:7, "Holy Trinity" is just a shorter way of saying the same thing.

From Dictionary.com

   1.  A group consisting of three closely related members. Also called triunity.
   2. Trinity Theology. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God. Also called Trine.
   3. Trinity - Trinity Sunday.

"Triune" is the root word for Trinity, and it also means three. So, if you understand and accept 1 John 5:7, you also accept "Holy Trinity" because the two are saying exactly the same thing. If you have some sort of mental block about saying the term "Holy Trinity", just quote 1 John 5:7 and all Christians will know what you believe. However, if you reject 1 John 5:7 as being true, you would be rejecting Christianity, even more so with each belief that Servetus connected to this issue. In blunt terms, you would be completely lost. The only value I could see for the material of Servetus would be for keeping a fire going.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NASB  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.


In the Bible only can be found is Holy One not Holy Trinity, and if did happen that the Holy One cannot be found in the Bible maybe I may come to believe in you.
I will not gamble the Holy One to the Holy Trinity that not even God having pronounce it!

Contrary to your statement in John 5:7 it clearly says that the three bear record in heaven are holy one, not holy trinity.
Really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

Marc,

I don't know if you're dense or we are.  Also, it doesn't appear that English is your first language as your posts are very difficult to read.  I don't mean to discourage you from posting, but please understand the difficulty I'm having reading your posts.

There IS one God.  You are correct in that statement.  What you don't seem to understand are the personages of that one God.  There is IN one God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  That's what we call a Trinity.  God manifests Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  The manifestations of God is called Trinity.  There aren't three Gods but ONE God.

I understand, you may not directly to say it but I know what you mean you came to indirect character assasination. But I am sure that you get more hard on to understand this english of mind as when I said  "and these three are one but not trinity" because you refuse to believe.

The the problem with the Trinity proponent what they say is not thesame what in thier heart. They confess by their lips that their is one God but in their hearts and mind they are polytheistic.

I may come to believe in you that indeed there was a three person of God but it does'nt mean that they simultaneously existed from eternity to eternity.
10  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 05, 2005, 11:59:30 AM
Quote
marc_serv Said:

Okay Pastor, actually I too myself don't know much about the the teaching of Servetus except in his views about the Godhead and Christ nature. I even reject some of his teachings except in his teaching about the Godhead and Christ nature.

I just quoted Servetus in his belief about the Godhead and his against in infant baptism because this was his very core teaching that cause his life. Let us focus to discuss regarding the true nature of Christ as what this my thread emphasized and not to divert the discussion to personal attacks to Servetus.

As you quoted the verse 1John 5:7, really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

Hello Marc_Serv,

I just skimmed one article about Michael Servetus, but I didn't find anything Christian about anything he taught, most certainly including his denial of the Holy Trinity, original sin, and just about everything associated with Salvation. So, in all of the important parts, he was simply a false teacher and nothing more. So, I wouldn't understand why a Christian would choose him as an example for anything, as his teachings were NOT Christian. His teachings look much more like Islam, NOT Christian.

If you're having a problem with the term "Trinity", that simply means three. If you quote 1 John 5:7, "Holy Trinity" is just a shorter way of saying the same thing.

From Dictionary.com

   1.  A group consisting of three closely related members. Also called triunity.
   2. Trinity Theology. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God. Also called Trine.
   3. Trinity - Trinity Sunday.

"Triune" is the root word for Trinity, and it also means three. So, if you understand and accept 1 John 5:7, you also accept "Holy Trinity" because the two are saying exactly the same thing. If you have some sort of mental block about saying the term "Holy Trinity", just quote 1 John 5:7 and all Christians will know what you believe. However, if you reject 1 John 5:7 as being true, you would be rejecting Christianity, even more so with each belief that Servetus connected to this issue. In blunt terms, you would be completely lost. The only value I could see for the material of Servetus would be for keeping a fire going.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NASB  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.


In the Bible only can be found is Holy One not Holy Trinity, and if did happen that the Holy One cannot be found in the Bible maybe I may come to believe in you.
I will not gamble the Holy One to the Holy Trinity that not even God having pronounce it!

Contrary to your statement in John 5:7 it clearly says that the three bear record in heaven are holy one, not holy trinity.
Really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!
11  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 05, 2005, 11:50:46 AM
Hiya Marc,

I see your positions as far as what you've said so far, however, i must say that I will have to disagree with your last statement. Any student of hermenutics will know that one of the first rules in systematically studying Scripture is that words have depth and can convey a general truth in Scripture. These truths don't have to be blatantly spoken, however, as more than one Scripture continues to support a general Truth, we begin to pull from it and put the pieces together. I.E. the Trinity. The word "Trinity" isn't used, however, the idea, or truth that God has chosen to reveal, is still there. Again, any serious student of Scripture and hermenutics will see that there is depth to words and as to the idea being conveyed in a passage of Scripture. Just thought i'd add this. God Bless

Coram Deo,
Joshua

No need to be a hermenutics in order to be save.
No wonder that Jesus said that the truth is not revealed to the wise.
12  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 04, 2005, 11:45:52 PM
Hi  marc_serv,

As I said, I know nothing of Michael Servetus nor of his teachings therefore I do not intend to say anything about him. I will though state as I did above that the Bible does support the teachings of the Trinity even though the bible does not specifically use that given word.


 
1Jo 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Okay Pastor, actually I too myself don't know much about the the teaching of Servetus except in his views about the Godhead and Christ nature. I even reject some of his teachings except in his teaching about the Godhead and Christ nature.

I just qouted Servetus in his belief about the Godhead and his againts in infant baptism because this was his very core teaching that cause his life. Let us focus to discuss regarding the true nature of Christ as what this my thread emphasized and not to divert the discussion to personal attacks to Servetus.

As you qouted the verse 1John 5:7, really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!
13  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 04, 2005, 09:20:06 AM
Michael Servetus
is well known for
using  his human reasoning power to reject  scripture's teaching
on One true God in three person's.
John 20:17
........................

Hopefuly none of us will not be  so reasonable .

Christianity needs "not" to be made "reasonable".
for it is human  reason that  needs to be made more Christian.
Romans 11:33-36

human  reason needs to hold it self "captive to Scripture".
Gods word! 2 corinthians 10:5

Pastor Roger,

Prove to me how Servetus in regard with his view in God reject the scriptures teaching?

I think the Trinity teaching is more by product of human reason, and even become unreasonable doctrine.

I never said anything about Servetus or his teachings nor do I intend to do so. There are some people that twist the teachings of the Trinity into something that it is not nor has it ever been.

The teaching of the Trinity is very often misunderstood. Some think that it is the teaching of three separate gods. It is not three separate gods. It is ONE GOD in three manisfestations, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Even though the word "Trinity" is not used in the Bible it does teach us just this .... ONE GOD in three different manifestations. Just because this word was not used in the Bible does not make it false. There are many words used today that were not used in the Bible. It does not make them false unless the meaning behind them, the context, is false.

Another example is calling the beast of Revelations the anti-Christ. There are those that will dispute this unendingly. Anti-Christ means to be against Christ. The beast of Revelations is against Christ and all that is Christ therefore it is also ANTI-CHRIST.

Some go so far as to say that you can only use the word Yeshua when referring to Him. Others say it must be YHWH and to use any other name is blasphemy.

Jesus Christ, Yeshua, Jehoshua, God, YHWH, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit or hundreds of others,

HE IS ALL ONE AND THE SAME



I think you are not somewhat an orthodox Trinitarian, by what your statement only proves that Servetus is not wrong
14  Theology / Debate / Re:Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 04, 2005, 12:01:23 AM
Michael Servetus
is well known for
using  his human reasoning power to reject  scripture's teaching
on One true God in three person's.
John 20:17
........................

Hopefuly none of us will not be  so reasonable .

Christianity needs "not" to be made "reasonable".
for it is human  reason that  needs to be made more Christian.
Romans 11:33-36

human  reason needs to hold it self "captive to Scripture".
Gods word! 2 corinthians 10:5

Pastor Roger,

Prove to me how Servetus in regard with his view in God reject the scriptures teaching?

I think the Trinity teaching is more by product of human reason, and even become unreasonable doctrine.
15  Theology / Debate / Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God. on: December 01, 2005, 08:54:01 AM
Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God(Father)

1. The Father give His own Name to the Son.
2. The Father give all His power to the Son.
3. The Father manifested thru the Son.
4. The Father glorified in the Son.
5. The Son submitted himself to the Father.
5. Jesus Christ will be sitting to the only one throne of God in  
    heaven.
6. The glory of God is in the face of Jesus.
7. The Holy Ghost(God's power overshadow) who came to the
    womb of Mary, and not God the Son of Trinitarian who
    came to Mary.

Jesus Christ maneuver the power of God that was all given unto Him while God take control of Him.

God = Power
fullness of God = all power of God

A Oneness preacher by the name of Michael Servetus taught- "I do not separate Christ from God any more than a voice from the speaker or a ray from the sun... An amazing mystery it is that God can thus be conjoined with man and man with God. A great wonder that God has taken to himself the body of Christ that it should be his peculiar dwelling place..." -Quoted in Hunted Heretic, R. Bainton, Beacon Press, p. 49.
Calvin became so angry over the writings of Michael Servetus (1511-1556 A.D.), who taught against the Trinity, and taught One God, that he had Servetus burned at the stake in Geneva... Although Calvin must bear the primary guilt of the murder of Servetus, many other Catholics and Protestants were in favor of it." --Ancient Champions of Oneness, W.B. Chalfant, Word Aflame Press, p. 153.
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