I am so glad that you took the time to educate yourself on the teachings of Rob Bell.  That is very noble of you.  Most people go on the attack without really educating themselves first.  I thank you for doing so.

I am in TOTAL agreement that without love we are as sounding brass or clanging symbols.   Amen.  I haven't reviewed my previous post, but I hope I conveyed a sense of that there.  My point is merely that it doesn't take a "relationship" to show your love for someone.  Actually, I find that witnessing to a close friend or loved one is MUCH MORE difficult than with a complete stranger.  This is not because I don't like investing time and energy into friendships, it is just much easier to be rejected by a stranger than with someone who you have so much time invested in. 

As an example,  I spoke to a Muslim this past Friday night for over an hour and that man knew that I loved him and that I was concerned for him.  I didn't have to take him to a movie or out to dinner in order to show my love for him.   I also didn't have to wait 6 months to "slip Jesus" into the conversation.   I just shared the truth with him with tears in my voice and a loving concern in my tone. I will probably never see that man againl, but I know that the Holy Spirit had convicted him and was doing a mighty work on him and I know that He (The Holy Spirit) will be faithfull to complete the work that he started. I directed him to the Bible that he owns and to get involved in a local Bible-teaching church so that they could further educate him and desciple him.  I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back becuse, beleive me, it wasn't in my strength.  I am only saying this as an example of why we can stop believing the lie that "relational" evangelism is better than the Biblical model.

As far as Rob Bell, I don't traditionally choose these forums as a means to communicate but sometimes I just have to sound the alarm any way that I can.  I am also in total agreement that I can not judge what is in a man's heart.  To do so, would be stepping over a very real line that I will not do.  (Actually, my prayer is that Bell will get saved and stop preaching the heresy that he is).  He is not my enemy, but if he speaks contrary to God's word, then he needs to repent because he will receive a stricter judgement (James 3:1)  However, I AM (along with every other Christian)called to judge what someone says and what they teach.  Matthew 7 says to pull the plank from your own eye SO THAT you can see more clearly to pull the speck from your brother's eye. The Bible condemns Hypocritical judgement, but not righteous judgement.  I will continue to examine teaching of every teacher (including those that I traditionally agree with) in light of God's word.  The most loving thing to do for a flock of sheep is to cry "WOLF!" when you see one.  Paul comended the Bereans in Acts 17:11 as being noble because they checked the word daily to see if these things (Paul's teachings) were so.  We must be willing to lay down our own ideas and stand in the face of the growing tide of compromise in this country.  The only thing that seems like it is condemned anymore by most American church-goers is "judging others".  Again, we judge the teachings of the people... not their heart.  If the teaching is out of line w/ the Bible, then we dismiss that teaching and let others know to do the same based on the Word of God.  If a a man is teaching contrary to God's word, that man is a False teacher, not doubt about it.   If he will turn from his false teaching, God is rich in mercy and will grant him repentance if he seeks it.  It is hard to find a page in the new testament where Paul, Matthew, John, Luke, Peter, Jude, or any other NT writer is not warning us about false teachers in the end times.  Yet we walk around believing everything that is taught in Jesus' name is according to God's will.  The false teachers are going to be speaking "in Jesus' name".  They aren't going to sound a horn and pronounce themselves as "false teachers".   We have to be on the look-out and not just accept what someone is saying because we bought their book in a "Christian" bookstore, or we saw them preach on TBN, or because they sold millions of books.  The crowd has almost always been wrong when it comes to these things and the righteous are normally the "remnant/fringe" group  that God sets aside to accomplish His purpose.  I urge you, not to follow the crowd, they will certainly mislead you.  Stick with the Word of God, even if you have to stand alone in doing so.  Not because you are trying to be a Spiritual "know it all" but because you love the truth.   

I thank you for even taking the time to read this post.  I don't think that I am smarter than anyone and God is constantly working on establishing the truth of His Word in my heart.  I'm in no way, a finished product.  I never will be...I hope you understand that I am not on the attack.  However, I do believe that Christians are called to take a place on the wall and be watchmen in the house of God.  We need to guard and protect our brothers and sisters in the faith against these attacks and not open the doors to the palace while the enemy rolls the trojan horse into the middle of God's house.   God bless you.

Neil

Without apology,I have to disagree with much of what this article says.

Firstly, Perhaps we should take with a grain of salt anything that Rob Bell with his worldly wisdom has to say.  This is the same guy that says that Heaven and Hell are not literal places but places that can be achieved here on earth.  You will find this and much more of Bell's heresy in chapter 1  of his book SexG-d  called "God wears lipstick".  To say that we need to just love without the agenda of converting people is a lie from the pit of hell. (Of course , If Bell is correct, there is no such place).   Jesus had an agenda... Period.  It was to seek and save the lost.  He didn't just hang out at Starbuck's with Rob Bell and his emergent Mars Hill followers "loving people".  He also didn't hang out with tax collectors and sinners in order to affirm their lifestyles.  He did so to confront their lifestyles with His truth and love.  The doctor coming to the sick of the world.

Jesus was very deliberate about doing the will of His Heavenly Father.  The MOST LOVING thing that I can do is to give someone the truth even if it costs me friends, family, or the acceptance of the crowd.  I love people enough to want to see them converted.  (Just like it will cost me the acceptance of nearly everyone on this board by speaking against something).   I'd rather have the crowd against me and God for me than have God against me and the crowd for me.   The crowd won't be there when I appear before the judgement seat of Christ.

Everywhere we go in this country, all we hear about is "relationship evangelism".   Basically, what it equates to is trying to remain in the good graces of the world while trying to one day slip Jesus into a conversation so subtly that it won't cost us anything.   In other words Paul's words to Timothy that "everyone who desires to live Godly in Christ Jesus WILL BE PERSECUTED" don't apply to us I guess.  He wasn't giving Timothy some evangelism method that wouldn't cost Timothy anything.  Jesus said blessed are you when men hate you and revile you for my name's sake.  The world hated Jeremiah, they hated Noah, they hated Jesus whenever He opened His mouth.  They tried to have Him killed 10 times before He went to the Cross.  Jesus, who was the greatest (and most loving) preacher that has ever set foot on this earth, Preached repentance of sin.  He didn't take six months befriending the woman at the well  before he identified her lifestyle of adultery.  He didn't befriend the rich young ruler before He told him to sell everything he had.  He didn't befriend the thousands who He fed the bread and fish to.  He preached to them and said "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you are not worthy to be my disciple".  Guess what....they all left.  He even asked His disciples if they would leave too.  Ever wonder why the world confused Jesus with Elijah, John the Baptist, or one of the prophets? Because Jesus was a fiery preacher of repentance just like them.  They would have never confused Jesus with Rob Bell or Donald Miller promoting the "just live it" message.
 Jesus said "Count the Cost".  We need some people who are willing to lose everything for the sole purpose of seeing people saved for God's Glory.  It's is absolutely OK to have an agenda.  That is not an evil thing.  Jesus laid out our agenda in the Great Commission because the gospel of Jesus Christ is the only message a person will ever hear that will matter in eternity.  And make no mistake, they need to HEAR the gospel.  Faith comes by HEARING, and hearing by the Word of God.  And also, knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.  People need to know how angry God is with the wicked (Ps. 7:11).  Going fishing doesn't involve taking your boat into the middle of a pond and waiting for the fish to jump into the boat.  Jesus said "Come follow me and I will make you fishers of men".  We need to stop waiting for them to jump into the boat and Go out and catch them for the Glory of God.  Stop trying to see what you can get away with in the name of evangelism and open your mouth.  Unless you are ashamed.  If you are you need to examine yourself and see if you are in the faith (2 Cor 13:5).

In no way do I write these things seeking your approval. Only to plead with you to examine the Scriptures like the Bereans is Acts 17...Please.  Reject me and the things that I say if you will, but please examine yourself and the things you write in light of God's Word and see if they line up...  Don't just accept the things that Donald Miller and Rob Bell say as  truth no matter how clever and wonderful they may sound.  It doesn't take a Biblical scholar to see that these guys are not in line with the Scripture.   

Actually, I read the whole thread and I'm not sure what I missed.

 I apologize if I came across as seeming unloving or uncaring.  I sympathize deeply with Jari.  My extended family is it's own sorted mess but my family is just as lost as hers.  I have been praying and witnessing, and yes,, letting my light shine before men for several years.  So I may have misunderstood the point you were trying to make Tom.

 Of course the work is that of the Holy Spirit.  Of course all the Glory for the salvation of sinners belongs to Jesus Christ.  I wouldn't dare pretend otherwise.  I am in complete agreement with all these points.  I was simply trying to back up pk's points about sharing the Gospel with lost family members.   

I've heard it said that salvation of the lost is much like Jesus calling Lazarus from the dead.  It is our job to roll the stone (aka stony heart) away but it is Jesus that calls dead men to live.  It is His voice that calls them. 

That being said, the Bible is clear that He chooses to manifest His word through  preaching (Titus 1:3-emphasis mine)  Being considered "preachy" has such negative connotations. Jari, if you seem to be preaching to your family, then God Bless you because it is how God will manifest His word to your family.  He doesn't choose to save sinners through NY Times best sellers, entertainment, pizza parties,  tickling their ears, or promising them their Best Life Now.  This is all man-made stuff that I was trying to encourage Jari to avoid at all costs.  (I saw her eluding to using the God will give you purpose and joy routhine but didn't see anyone else discouraging it!)

Her family needs to see (individually) that they have violated God's Holy Law and there needs to be Godly Sorrow that works  repentance leading to salvation not to be repented of (2 Cor. 7:10).  If they lack Godly sorrow because they haven' seen themselves in truth (in light of God's law) and how filthy we all are they won't cry out to be made clean.  They have angerd God with their sin.  God is angry with the wicked every day (Ps. 7:11).  And yet He still loves the world enough die for these same wicked people like Jari's family and ME.

Jari, you seem like you may be a pretty young Christian.  Please know that it is very difficult for truth to come acorss as loving on a message board.  My heart truly breaks for you.  I would love for the last post on this thread to be the testimonies of all your family members being saved.

I merely stand to warn you that as a Christian, you will be bombarded with false information about Jesus that is of the Devil.  Many false teachers and teachings according to (2 Peter 2:1) about what is best and what is true but the Bible calls  dangerous heresies.   Bury yourself in God's Holy word to find your answers. I'm sure that the folks on this board are Godly but let God's word be your primary source of advice regading your lost family members.

You will find in His word that God is not so much worried about yours, mine, or anyone's purpose as much as He desires all men to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9.)  You will hear some say that repentance isn't that important.  (One of those dangerous heresies we just talked about)...If they say that, they are deceived and are certainly not speaking under God's authority (see Luke 13:3)  Your family members, my family members, and this whole world must repent (turn from) their sins and put their faith in Jesus Christ.

Re-Read what  PK said.  He is right on point with what he said.  Continually pray (and potentially fast) for your family.  Continue to shed tears before God and Let your love for them compel you to step outside of your comfort zone and share with them the Gospel even if it costs you the relationship.  Very, very, Very Difficult to do with those you love but God will honor your sacrifice.  He may even honor it by saving your loved ones....God bless you

Neil

Jari,

I know how it must pain you to see your family walk in the ways of this world.  There has been some good advice given to you on this thread.  I would echo much (but not all) of what has already been said by some of the others. 

If you have been born again, you are a new creation and your life will reflect Christ  to those who know you best (especially those who knew you before your conversion).

Living your life for Christ will obviously be the most grueling aspect of your witness to your family because your life will be scrutinized and criticized at every moment by them. ( I speak from experience on that one).  However, living your life is NOT enough!  This is a point in which I respectfully disagree with some of my brothers on this thread.  Your family must be presented with the Gospel.  The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.  Living a good clean, moral life is not going to get it done.  If living a good life was all it took, then your family may end up joining one the cults like the Mormon church.  Mormons live some of the most morally upright lives of any people I have ever encountered  yet they are in total darkness spiritually.

PK is absolutely right.  Your family obviously has no fear of the Lord in them.  Hebrews 10 says that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.  They don’t fear Him probably because they have been surrounded by a “man-centered” form of Christianity (which is not true Christianity)  I strongly advise you against trying to  sell your family all the benefits of Christianity.  If you try to “sell” them on Christianity with words like peace, purpose, fulfillment, joy, happiness,  etc.,  you are giving your family a false sense of Christianity.  These things are by-products of the faith but should never be used as “fish bait” trying to lure potential converts to the faith.  If they bite on the “happy” gospel that you sell them I guarantee you that in a few years, they will completely walk away from their false faith as soon as tribulation hits  (See the thorny ground hearer in the parable of the sower Mark 4).  This type of conversion is called a false conversion.  We are producing false conversions in America by the millions every year with the “Come to Jesus and be happy” gospel. 

Jesus’ message was always given in love but His message created such a stir in the towns where He preached,  the people attempted to take His life 10 different times before He went to the Cross.  If He had preached a message of purpose and peace, this never would have happened.  In Matthew 10, Jesus said that He did not come to bring peace but a sword.  A sword that will divide families.  I know you love your family.  Love them enough to be completely honest with them.  According to Jesus, you may lose relationships within your family.  Count the cost Jari.  If your family dies only knowing that God is real, they will spend eternity in the flames of Hell.  God forbid!  With tears, Plead with them!!  Do as PK said, show them their sin by laying out the 10 commandments before them.  Show them how filthy they are and then explain that the blood of Christ is the only thing that will cleanse them from their sin. 

If they don’t see the problem, they will never cry out for the solution.  Would a patient let a doctor perform brain surgery on him if he thinks that there is nothing wrong with his brain?  Highly unlikely!  But if the doctor takes the time to show the patient  the tumor that is growing on his brain, then the patient will cry out for the surgery that is necessary to remove the problem.  Sin must become exceedingly sinful for grace to abound.  Let  them see what their sin cost Jesus.  The law (10 commandments) will lead them to the foot of the blood stained cross where they can be reconciled to God.  Where sin abounds grace does much more abound!!  Grace cost our Savior His life, that’s not cheap grace!!!

(Link removed due to advertising.)

May God Bless You Jari,

Neil

Bern,
I certainly sympathize with you.  I find that many "evangelical Christians" are the hardest people to reach.  They truly believe they are saved and actually they are not.  D.James Kennedy said that "based on years of experience and observation the LARGE majority of church goers today are in fact not saved".  That is mind boggling. You are right in that it seems as though the Word has lost it's power to convict.

The problem lies not in the Word because  the Word of God is still mighty, powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword.  It is still able to penetrate the most hard hearted sinner even those who seem numb to Gospel.  That has not changed in 2000 years.

The problem lies with us.  Around the turn of the last century, the Church adopted a "new" approach to presenting the Gospel message.  I guess they figured that the heroes of the faith like Wesley, Whitfield, Spurgeon, Moody, and Edwards didn't really know what they were doing when they were bringing millions (of TRUE converts) into the faith.  The church decided to abandon the Law and it's capacity to convert the soul (See Psalms 19:7).  They decided that the Gospel needed man's help and they adopted a more "man centered" approach to presenting the Gospel.  The issue they choose to sell men was the issue of "life enhancement".  

Instead of preaching repentance, judgement, sin, hell, or even the Cross, they decided to replace such "rigid" termonology with words like love, peace, joy, fulfillment, and prosperity.  One hundred years later, we find ourselves at a time when such things as the Fear of the Lord are completely unheard of even when Proverbs states that the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.  

Let me assure you that I'm not talking about "hell fire" preaching.  It's about presenting the FULL Gospel without compromise and without hesitation.  To tell a brother or sister that you fear for their eternal destiny based on the life they are living is not Judging someone.  

In my experience, the most quoted verse in the Bible is not even John 3:16 it's Matthew 7:1 "Judge not lest ye be judged".  Look at the full message of Matthew 7 again (in it's full context) however and you will see that Jesus is preaching against sin in this passage.  He says to purge the sin out of your life completely (remove the plank from your eye) SO THAT YOU CAN see clearly TO REMOVE THE SPECK (Sin) from your brother's eye.  Jesus' message is clearly one of removing sin from our lives and helping our brothers and sisters to remove sin from their lives as well.  Notice he uses the eye to illustrate this point.  He is saying you need to be delicate  in doing this.  You need to use care, compassion, and love to help your brothers and sisters see their sin.  That is why it is so important to be sensitive to the prompting of the Holy Spirit like you said in your post.  

I sort of got sidetracked there but I will just tell you that the problem is with the "Modern" church and the lack of Biblical truth that is being preached in pulpits today.  That is partly why when you look at the topics on this board, there are over 400 discussions about end time prophecy and less than 30 regarding witnessing.  We are shining the brass on the life boat while millions perish in the icy waters around us.  ....Content in our own salvation.   We've abandoned solid Biblical preaching with Seeker Sensitive mush.  The believer has been abandoned within the walls of the Church while we try to evangelize inside the churchhouse instead of out in the streets because it is simply more comfortable and convenient for us to do.   It's about the same as the 120 believers in the upper room on the day of Pentecost being enpowered by the Holy Spirit and instead of going into the streets to present the Gospel (as they were told in Acts 1:8 to do)they just put a sign outside the door that said "Visitors Welcome" and waiting for the crowds to flow in.  If that didn't work, they'd perform a few funny skits and water down the message a little to attract folks.  I'm so glad that they didn't do that.  I'm sorry, but I prefer God's method of growing the Church over Rich Warren's any day.  Sorry, I just have to be honest.

Bern, you need to think about the eternal well being of your church friends if they were to die.  Is it likely that they could be one of the majority that Dr. Kennedy was talking about that simply ARE NOT saved.  If there is even a chance of that, tell them the truth about what the Word of God says about such people.  Warn them of the judgement that is coming.  All this is spoken in love for you brother and your lost friends.  I care enough to be totally honest w/ you.

Your brother in Christ,
Neil

I agree, these are some great points Pastor....

Here ar a few more that I have found to be effective...

One great way to get into a conversation w/ someone  is to do as Pastor Roger said and smile, introduce yourself first before anything else. Carry a small notebook or even a "post-it" pad and pen and then tell them that you are working on a project (which is true) and ask them if you may have a few minutes of their time.  Just tell them you are randomly surveing people about some of their spiritual beliefs and ask if they have a Christian background.  This is a very non-confrontational question.  I have never had anyone get offended by this question.  It is a great ice breaker and it gets your audience thinking about spiritual things.  You will get a variety of answers....You may spend a few minutes listening to what they have to say but bring them back to the truth.  
Give them the law of God (the 10 commandments) to plow their stony hearts and once the soil is ready, plant the seed of the gospel.  If you try to plant the seed before preparing the soil, your results will suffer.  (See the stony ground hearer in the Parable of the Sower(Mark 4).  If you take the time to prepare the ground, the seed will find fertile soil (Good Soil Hearer).   I use the WDJD (What Did Jesus Do?) to guide me through witnessing encounters.  I won't take up all of your time explaining what this is but for those who are interested in learning more about how  "The Law of the Lord is Perfect in Converting the Soul" (Psalms. 19:7), go to www.livingwaters.com or www.thewayofthemaster.com.  Or you can simply reply to this message and state that you would like to know what this is all about.  I would suspect that many on this board probably are thinking "What do the 10 commandments have to do w/ evangelism"  That's exactly what I would have said 18 mos ago.  I would love to discuss w/ anyone interested on a seperate thread.  Thanks again for this thread Pastor Roger.  I thank God for you.

Street Preacher

Hello Gracey,

Thanks for the care and thoughtfullness of your post.  It is impossible to disagree on these message boards without coming across as a "know it all".  I know that is the way that I can come off at times but I promise you that it is not my intention at all to do so.  I do believe that you and I are on the same side of this fight.  

You would be a person that I wish I had the opportunity to speak with in another forum besides over a computer.  It is impossible of course to do so but I think we could have an interesting conversation on this topic.  I will certainly take what you have said in love and Christian fellowship.  I hope that you will accept my apologies if I come across too bluntly in expressing my opinions.  If you will allow me a second chance to explain where I am coming from however, I would appreciate it a great deal.

I am opposed to much of what is the modern American church calls "evangelism".  We have adopted many new means and methods of evangelizing the world which I am NOT opposed to.  I believe in using the resources, abilities  and giftings that God has given us to reach every single person on the planet with the full Gospel of Jesus Christ.  One that preaches the complete message without omitting any part of it.  Hell, blood, cross, sin, repentance, need to be preached along with love, grace, Heaven, and benefits when sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  John Wesley, who was probably one of the most effective evangelists in history, said we should preach 90% law and 10% grace.   That would seem foolish to most people in American churches today.  So has the truth changed since Wesley's day?

Of course not, the problem is that we have adopted a humanist view of how to "relevantly" share the gospel with those who are parrishing.  When these methods and models dilute or lighten the message of the Gospel, I am very much opposed to them.  The Gospel does not need us, we need the Gospel.  We have come to believe that the Gospel needs us to make it effective in the American church of 2004.  A skit or a comic show maybe or the right lighting or cord played on the electric guitar and a $20 million recreation facility will somehow make the gospel effective.  Those are all wonderful things that God can bless when the preaching is still Biblical and solid.  However, when the message changes to lighten the sting of conviction, we have wasted everyone's time (not to mention $20 million). Period.  

I know that some of you have already tuned me out because I probably seem crazy (I am...for Jesus)  or have somehow offended your view of what Church should be.  Again, it is not my intention to offend but to merely speak the truth in love.  So for the sake of those still with me however....

Let me throw a number at you.  In the early 1990's a major U.S. denomination reported 294,000 "decisions" for Christ in one year.  Pretty impressive on the surface of it I must say.  However, 2 years later the denomination could only find 14,000 of those still in fellowship.  The denomination had created 280,000 (or 95%) of what we commonly refer to as backsliders.  These results are common throughout the entire church in America where 9 out of every 10 decisions for Christ result in people falling away from the faith.  We are doing something wrong!  We are losing 90% of the people who come to the alter to say the "Sinner's prayer".   We now make friendship and our felt needs priority over delivering God's word with compassion for those who are destined for hell if they die today.  

Jesus understands how important relationships are to us.  He also expects that our relationship w/ him will trump any relationship that is of this earth.

In Matthew 10 34-38 Jesus says "Think not that I came to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and a daughter in law against her mother in law 36 And a man's foes shall be those of his own household 37 He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me 38 And he that takes not his cross and follows after me, is not worthy of me.

We worship God through our obedience to follow his commands.  Jesus said "If you love me, follow my commands".  He commanded us to go into all the earth and preach the gospel to every creature. I do so to worship him, and out of sheer gratitude torwards him.  I am passionate about it to a fault at times.  

I am sorry for coming across as mean-spirited Gracey.  I just feel like there is so little time and so much to do to fulfill Christ's commission to us.  I want all of us to do so with a passion and zeal that conquers our fears.  I don't want any of us to let ourselves off the hook when it comes to evangelism.  Think of where they'll go if they die without Christ.  Let that motivate all of us to press into the harvest fields.  

I'll re-read that poem with a different heart.  God bless you sister!

Neil

Don't Give Me Jesus …
… if giving me Jesus means
telling me about your beliefs,
then walking away.
  Don't give me Jesus,
if giving me Jesus means
judging me by appearance,
but never trying to see who I really am.
  Don't give me Jesus,
if giving me Jesus means
you're right no matter what,
and I'm wrong no matter what.

Do Give Me Jesus …
… if giving me Jesus means
walking beside me just like
Jesus walked beside
lepers and losers.
  Do give me Jesus,
if giving me Jesus means
listening more than talking.
  Do give me Jesus,
if giving me Jesus means
laughing with me when I need to laugh,
and crying with me when I need to cry.
  Do give me Jesus,
if giving me Jesus means
letting me know when
my actions are harmful or destructive.
  Do give me Jesus,
if giving me Jesus means
being my friend.

If you give me Jesus
wrapped in your friendship,
I may be more ready to listen
to what you have to say.

—Anonymous

Gracey,

What is your take on this poem?  

I'm sure you agree with it being that you posted it.  

I want to give you my honest opinion in brotherly love..not to alienate myself but because it is the conviction of my heart.

I think that this poem encompasses much of what is wrong with the modern evangelism in the church today.  Let's not give people Jesus unless....  Unless we accept their views mixed in w/ ours?  Unless we are best friends first?  Unless  we can keep from offending them?  And my personal favorite,,, until they ask us to tell them about Jesus....

Do you think that this poem is condemning certain types of witnessing?  Is it telling me that I have to make friends w/ someone in order to witness to them and that witnessing to strangers is wrong?  Is that what it means to "talk to people about my beliefs (Jesus Christ and his infallible gospel) and walk away".  I talk to people about Jesus all the time and then walk away.  That's what seed planting is.  Does this poem condemn that practice?  Jesus said to go into all the earth.  I don't have time to make friends with "all the earth".  I am here to plant as much seed as I can until the day that God calls me home.  Is what I am doing wrong according to this poem?

As for the part regarding being right and being wrong when I give you Jesus?  When could I be wrong when giving someone Jesus?  Giving someone Jesus is always right.  I can certainly be wrong when stating my own opinion that is for sure.  However, when I give them Jesus, I stand on the absolute truth of the Word of God.... not my opinion.  In those instances I am right no matter what.  If they don't want it or don't agree with what the Bible says then they are wrong 100% of the time.  I will tell them the dangers and concequences of their opinion with a Holy urgencey.  

It is not my desire to slam you or this poem.  I have never met you and can only assume that you are a mighty warrior of Christ yourself.  I thank God for your love for people and hope that you will win many souls to Christ in your life.  I just do not agree  with the "friendship evangelism" approach to witnessing as the exclusive way to win souls.  I do not believe that it was the model or instructions that Jesus left for us to follow.  Jesus had only a handful of friends.  He loved all men and women (and instructed us to do the same) but only befreinded a few.  

We would have to say the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4 was a "stranger" to Jesus.  He didn't wait to establish a meaningful relationship with her in order to be able to speak into her life.  He simply struck up a conversation w/ her and then spoke the truth in love to a woman who didn't even know who he was....and he was effective.  The greatest sermon ever preached in Matthew 5 was spoken to the multitudes in the open air.  Not to a bunch of Jesus' closest friends or to those hanging around the Temple. I know that your heart is pure before God.  I certainly do not question that.  I just do not accept this poem as the most effective way to reach the lost for Christ.

I'll leave you with this illustration as we approach the 3rd anniversary of the attacks on NYC and Wash DC.  

Suppose it is Sep. 10 2001 and you are in NYC about to deliver a message to 1000 people working in Tower 2 of the World Trade Center.  Your message,,,, The Gospel of Jesus Christ.  You are fully aware of the attacks that are about to take place the following day and you have one chance to deliver the message to these souls about to step into eternity.  How would you approach your message?  
would you mention death, judgement, heaven and hell, concequences of sin, repentance, salvation through Jesus Christ?  Even if meant offending them or "appearing" narrow-minded and judgemental?  I certainly hope so.

I know that your heart is pure before God.  I certainly do not question that.  I just do not accept this poem as the Biblical model of how to reach the lost for Christ.  May God go with you today Gracey.  I love you enough to be completely honest.  I cannot convey that on a forum such as this as effectively as I would in person, but I simply had to be honest.

Until the Nets are Full.

Neil
Street Preacher

I'd like to chime in on this if you will allow me to.

First of all, I appreciate this discussion.  I love to see brothers and sisters who love the Lord so much that they simply want to please him through serving him.  I know that you all are giving the Lord everything you have and the reason for this poll is to learn how to live a life that is pleasing to Him.  I thank God for all of you and how you are serving the Lord!  

  I'd like to ask a few questions (in absolute brotherly love)  in  response to the original poll if I may....

First question....  If you saw a group of people who were all sleepwalking and walking torwards a cliff  what would you do in that moment?  Would you categorize them?  Would you selectively choose the ones that should be helped or not helped?  Of course not.  You would do everything within your power to wake them up and stop them from heading for sure death.  That is what Jesus would have us do.  Help those who we know are headed to hell.  

Second question.... What did the Bible model for us?  The church that was modeled on the day of pentecost and in the book of Acts did not pick and choose who was to be helped.  They were enpowered by the Holy Spirit of God and they just went for it.  They didn't stay in the upper room debating how they were going to raise money for the "building fund" or what color flowers they would place on the alter for Sunday service...... NO. they headed out and started "helping people" by giving them the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.  They didn't sit around and debate what to do like the 21st century church would do.  And it said that the Lord added daily to those being saved.  We fail to see much of this in America because we have learned to rely on a committe meetings  or consultants to help us with what we should do instead of the Holy Spirit.   Let us take our lead from the biblical model.  Jesus gave us the parable of the sower to illustrate the fact that seed (gospel message) will fall on different types of soil.  We need to be proclaiming (with everything that we have) the message of Jesus Christ without prejudice. Just like we would for those who were walking torwards that cliff.... If they are breathing, they need Jesus.

As far as the specifics of which charity to give to or where you should plant your ministry etc. etc.  The Holy Spirit will guide you.  Pray for wisdom and dissernment as far as how to use your finances and time to further the kingdom.  Pray. Pray. and Pray.   That's not a cop out.  That's just what we are commanded to do.  Then watch the Lord use you in some powerful ways.  

Go with God today.

Let me preface these comments by saying that I have not read this entire thread.  I have to admit that I humbly disagree with much of what I have read.  I'm only being honest..disagreement is OK when done in love.  I hope you know that I love you all and look forward to eternity with each of you.  I just happen to disagree with some of the posts.  

For starters.  I don't believe you should get off on "rabbit trails" when sharing the gospel.  Stick to the point!!! Atheists love to put the burden of proof on the Christian  but the burden is squarely on their shoulders.  However, I will offer this as some practical advice.  

If you happen to be standing outside during your discussion with the atheist, simply point to a nearby building and ask him/her how they know that building had a builder?  Or how do we know that a painting had a painter?  The building/painting is proof that there was a builder/painter.  All you need are eyes and a brain and you know that a building didn't just happen.  There was intellegent design and thought put into their creation.  You don't have to see,smell,hear, or have ever met the builder to know that he exists.  His creation is proof.  God's creation is proof that there is a creator.  

Or you can tell the atheist that you can convert them to an agnostic in 30 seconds. They always love this challenge.  

Ask them this question?   Of ALL the knowledge in the universe, how much do you think YOU personally possess.  The correct answer is less than 1/1millionth of a % but be generous and give them 1 %.  Then ask them this...  Of the 99% of knowledge that you do NOT possess,  IS IT POSSIBLE that there is some proof of God's existence.  A reasonable person would have to admit that it is at least possible.  You've just converted an atheist to an agnostic.  If they are stubborn and won't bend.  Just proceed anyway.  Still give them the gospel the way Jesus would have.  

I spend considerable amounts of time on the streets of my city witnessing to all types of people.   Make no mistake apologetics are important when sharing your faith with pre-Christians however it is not the foundation of your argument.  The gospel is the seed...not apologetical argument.  The true gospel of Jesus Christ bypasses the intellect and goes straight to the consciensce.  In other words....it evens the playing field.  Do you want to get into a philosophical discussion with a Harvard professor who professes to being an atheist? Most of us probably would not unless our name is Ravi Zacharias.  But doesn't that professor need Jesus the same way that a homeless man living in the park needs Jesus?You bet he does!  So how do we reach him? Avoid him? Let someone else do it?  Pray that God will send him someone smarter than you?  Maybe you are the one God has placed in his path.  You can do it.  You may feel unequipped and rightfully so.  Your going to war armed with a feather duster in your hand.  

One year ago, I felt the exact same way that many of you do. I was terrified of sharing my faith because I was carrying a feather duster to a gunfight.  Please go to www.thewayofthemaster.com for help in sharing your faith effectively.  They will be able to give you the weapons that will revolutionize your ability to share your faith effectively the way that Jesus did.  I've gotta' run for now.  It's ten past five and I've gotta get home.  Hope this helps.

Until the Nets are Full.

I think that we need to model our witnessing techniques after the greatest evangelist who ever lived.  Jesus Christ!

Jesus always said what he said in love....bottom line.  We need to learn from that example as well.. Amen?

However, Jesus never compromised the absolute truth of his word out of fear of someone being offended at his message.  The rich young ruler in Luke 18 & Mark 10 walked away from Jesus upset, but Jesus did not run behind him apologizing for hurting the man's feelings.  He kept preaching the TRUTH.  Don't shy away from what you know is right.  The gospel is truth.  Without the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, people will spend eternity in hell.

 Not only Jesus but Paul and the desciples took to heart preaching the gospel the way that Jesus did.  Guys like Spurgeon, Wesley, Whitfield, Finney, and Moody understood how to win souls the way that Jesus did.  Unfortunately, we have abandoned that model in our quest to become relevant and entertaining to a sinful world.... As though Jesus needs our help to spice up his message.  

If you are truly interested in knowing how to effectively share your faith the way that the Bible instructs us,  go to www.thewayofthemaster.com.  Like I said earlier,  all this is said in love.  Something that is impossible to convey in a forum such as this.  But truly, I weep for those who retreat into the safey of the churchhouse while 150,000 souls enter eternity every day.  Most of whom are unprepared.  I hope only to challenge you as your brother in Christ.