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Theology => Debate => Topic started by: Shemaya on December 06, 2004, 06:14:16 PM



Title: A touchy subject
Post by: Shemaya on December 06, 2004, 06:14:16 PM
Please don't hurt me.I wish not to offend anyone.I have to ask though because it's bothering me.I was just wondering....does God approve of homosexuals.He loves everyone I know,but does he like them dating and getting married.I though God said that marraige was between man and woman.So does God approve,disapprove,or doesn't care if you are or not.Again I don't wish to offend anyone,but this question has been bothering me badly. ???


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: sincereheart on December 06, 2004, 06:51:28 PM
God does not approve of ANY sin, and homosexuality is a sin. :)

Romans 1:27   And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.




Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Shammu on December 06, 2004, 07:23:11 PM
Leviticus 20.13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Just on this verse alone, it shows that it is a sin. This goes for a man or a woman.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: mattistheman on December 06, 2004, 08:24:57 PM
Homosexuality is a sin, and therefore God does not approve of it.  Homosexuality is caused from willingness to embrace the said sin.  While it is true that some are more sussepteble (sp) to homosexuality, some are also more susseptable (again please excuse my horrific spelling) to anger, that alone however, does not justify actions taken in anger.  There is no "gay gene" or biological reason for homosexuality, it is a choice we all must come to a conclusion about.

Glory to the Living God  


Title: A touchy subject
Post by: Brother Love on December 07, 2004, 04:39:36 AM
Homosexuality is a sin, and therefore God does not approve of it.  Homosexuality is caused from willingness to embrace the said sin.  While it is true that some are more sussepteble (sp) to homosexuality, some are also more susseptable (again please excuse my horrific spelling) to anger, that alone however, does not justify actions taken in anger.  There is no "gay gene" or biological reason for homosexuality, it is a choice we all must come to a conclusion about.

Glory to the Living God  

I agree :)


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: gabriel on December 07, 2004, 05:29:22 AM
God does not approve of ANY sin, and homosexuality is a sin. :)

Romans 1:27   And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.



Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone


Title: A touchy subject
Post by: Brother Love on December 07, 2004, 05:32:16 AM
God does not approve of ANY sin, and homosexuality is a sin. :)

Romans 1:27   And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.



Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone

Your on a roll gabriel  ;D


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: sincereheart on December 07, 2004, 06:54:50 AM
God does not approve of ANY sin, and homosexuality is a sin. :)

Romans 1:27   And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.



Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone

Here we go again.... :-X

Which stone was cast?


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Allinall on December 07, 2004, 08:25:20 AM
God does not approve of ANY sin, and homosexuality is a sin. :)

Romans 1:27   And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.



Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone

The "stone" would be a passed judgment.  What was given is God's word on the matter.  God says it's wrong.  No stone, and if there is, He's the One throwing it.   :)


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Jemidon2004 on December 07, 2004, 03:36:07 PM
There is a major difference in casting a stone, and sharing God's Word. What was shared with in this thread was the fact that homosexuality is a sin, and God hates sin, But he loves the sinner. When someone says to me "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone" in a case such as this, i begin to wonder if maybe it's not anyone casting a stone at all, but the Word is doing a little toe stomping. If you tihnk the Word is casting stones, then you're in for a rude awakening as you read any of my posts, because I let God's Word do the speaking for me. Please don't go on the defensive with words "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone" because in that statement Jesus is talking about judgement and hypocrisy. Sharing God's Word and showing what He says about a subject is not judgement, and it most certainly is not hypocrisy. Forgive me if i sound a little harsh, but i believe this needs to be said. Please, if one is afraid to address the subject, let him/her be silent and learn from what may be said here. Just a few thoughts. God Bless

In His Service,
Joshua

P.S. Shemaya...God's Word is clear friend. Homosexuality is a sin and an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Unfortunately some are compromising and saying that it's ok. "Let's accept the sinner for who he/she is." We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. And when confronted with the Word of God some may get on the defensive...and raise up walls. We as Christians are to plant a seed and let God do the harvesting. Sharing Scripture is by no means casting a stone. I hope you aren't discouraged by what has been said on the subject on homosexuality. I hope you will continue in God's Will and in His service. God Bless you as you seek these answers and in your studies.

Joshua


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: nChrist on December 07, 2004, 03:53:33 PM
AMEN BROTHER JOSHUA!!!

I'd love to hear you preach some day.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I Corinthians 2:5  That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Soldier4Christ on December 07, 2004, 04:26:04 PM
Another hearty Amen added to you Jemidon.



Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Shemaya on December 07, 2004, 04:38:32 PM
thank you everyone.I thought it was a sin,but wanted to be sure. :-\Sad thing is my Grandma believes it's a disease and I keep explaining it to her.I think she just wants to think the best of everyone i think ???


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: 2nd Timothy on December 07, 2004, 06:12:29 PM
Off topic a bit...but...

I am angered that my workplace has passed out a memo this year forbidding the use of the word christmas or any other holiday name in decorations or cards.   It must read happy holidays or something similar.   However they had no problem proclaiming that the company would celebrate gay and lesbian weekend not to long ago.   ::)   IMO this is reverse discrimination.   I can send a card to all my co-workers in the name of homosexuality, but not in the name Christ, or Christmas.   >:(  :'(    What a backwards world we live in.

Grace and Peace!


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Bern on December 07, 2004, 06:13:01 PM
I suppose you could say sin is a disease.. we've all got it, and Jesus is the cure.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: 2nd Timothy on December 07, 2004, 06:17:13 PM
I suppose you could say sin is a disease.. we've all got it, and Jesus is the cure.

Agreed 100%


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Jemidon2004 on December 07, 2004, 08:35:28 PM
Not a problem Tom, if you are willing to make the trip out to SC to listen to me preach :) Until then i reckon you'll have to settle for my sermon notes :P I'm sorry your grandmother sees it that way. She is right, it is a disease, and it has made humans wretched vile creatures. Children of Darkness as Christ called us. But those who are born-again are children of God now. For seieing as we have obtained an inheritance whereby we might recieve the spirit of adoption and cry Abba, Father." Then those who are truely born again will not want to do abominable things in God's eyes. Hey 2 Tim...i feel ya man. I can't go in and preach like I would like, or discuss religious topics in class without the class all rallying against me because they are various denoms and religions. The sad thing is, we had a fight today and the victor was applaused when he was escorted to the office for his suspension. How sad is that. Speak of a backwards world...welcome to my world friend. You have it made bro. I reckon we're all put where God wants us :) and I'm making the most of it. Ya'll be good now...cant wait to read more of the posts on this site. God Bless!

IN His Service,
Joshua


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: felix102 on December 08, 2004, 01:27:05 AM
Homosexuality is a sin, and therefore God does not approve of it.  Homosexuality is caused from willingness to embrace the said sin.  While it is true that some are more sussepteble (sp) to homosexuality, some are also more susseptable (again please excuse my horrific spelling) to anger, that alone however, does not justify actions taken in anger.  There is no "gay gene" or biological reason for homosexuality, it is a choice we all must come to a conclusion about.

Glory to the Living God  

Amen

Shemaya, this sheds some light on the error in thinking homosexuality is a disease, birth defect, etc. and that people cant help it that they are homosexual. People are susceptible to certain sins when they are born. That is the difference. It is no excuse to accept the sin.
That would be like saying fornication is ok because when people are born they will eventually be susceptible to that.

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=4425 talks about this in more detail.

When your grandma says she thinks it's a disease I think she has missed this very concept. If that was the case then all sins would be a disease. Sin is not biological.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Soldier4Christ on December 08, 2004, 03:43:33 AM
A concept of the word disease.

When I was a child the word disease and cancer were used in an anomalous fashion. (i.e. Sin is a cancer that is eating away at the fibre of our country.) In this same manner "disease" was used to signify something that was not good and was spreading rampantly throughout our society. It had nothing to do with references to a disease that people could not help getting.

Some people understood this concept others it confused as they didn't understand it was being used in this manner and when a statement of this nature came from someone they respected (doctor, pastor, parent, etc.) they took it at face value and believed it.

Just as I am seeing this confusion happening even in this thread.

The question I have is which use of the word "disease" is Shemayas grandmother using?





Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: nChrist on December 08, 2004, 12:10:09 PM
2nd Timothy,

It's a sick and evil world that we live in, and it's getting worse by the minute. Many public schools have already banned Christmas Carols and plays. A nativity scene would be out of the question. It's also interesting to note that any reference to God or Christ is being removed from all books used in public schools. It's not Thanksgiving, rather a feast day. The examples go on and on.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 104:34  My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: felix102 on December 08, 2004, 04:10:46 PM
A concept of the word disease.

When I was a child the word disease and cancer were used in an anomalous fashion. (i.e. Sin is a cancer that is eating away at the fibre of our country.) In this same manner "disease" was used to signify something that was not good and was spreading rampantly throughout our society. It had nothing to do with references to a disease that people could not help getting.

Some people understood this concept others it confused as they didn't understand it was being used in this manner and when a statement of this nature came from someone they respected (doctor, pastor, parent, etc.) they took it at face value and believed it.

Just as I am seeing this confusion happening even in this thread.

The question I have is which use of the word "disease" is Shemayas grandmother using?





I'm pretty sure that Shemaya's grandma was using the latter defintion: people cannot help being homosexual as people cannot help but have sickle-celled anemia (inherited diesease). But it is also valid to describe sin as a disease affecting society. This isnt wrong. But I was just refering to the other one. Sin is a disease and Jesus is the cure...I whole heartedly agree with.

It's pretty clear that we can assume that Shemaya's grandma would assume the latter. Why else would she say "Well, homosexuality is JUST a disease (in other words, people can't help it!!)" Otherwise Shemaya wouldn't be introducing "but my grandma said...." in contradiction to Homosexuality is a sin. It clear that this is the implication but I'll let Shemaya verify if this is correct...


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: felix102 on December 08, 2004, 04:16:36 PM
I hope people do not confuse what I said here
Quote
When your grandma says she thinks it's a disease I think she has missed this very concept. If that was the case then all sins would be a disease. Sin is not biological.

This is in context of what Shemaya's Grandma was saying and not
Quote
Quote from: Bern on December 07, 2004, 06:13:01 PM
I suppose you could say sin is a disease.. we've all got it, and Jesus is the cure.
 
 

Agreed 100%


I am talking about the fact that Homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin. Murder, adultery, stealing, and homosexuality are all sins. If you say homosexuality is a biological disease then that would be like saying murder, adultery and stealing are biological diseases.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Jemidon2004 on December 08, 2004, 04:19:23 PM
lol...iwas getting ready to reply to what you'd just posted felix...glad you cleared it up for me, now i don't really have anything to post until something else comes up.

Joshua


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: ollie on December 08, 2004, 11:12:08 PM
God does not approve of ANY sin, and homosexuality is a sin. :)

Romans 1:27   And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.



Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone
Quoting God's word on what He says is unseemly and error is not casting stones.

ollie


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: gabriel on December 09, 2004, 05:05:43 AM
I suppose you could say sin is a disease.. we've all got it, and Jesus is the cure.
[I agree./quote]


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: gabriel on December 09, 2004, 05:16:20 AM
2nd Timothy,

It's a sick and evil world that we live in, and it's getting worse by the minute. Many public schools have already banned Christmas Carols and plays. A nativity scene would be out of the question. It's also interesting to note that any reference to God or Christ is being removed from all books used in public schools. It's not Thanksgiving, rather a feast day. The examples go on and on.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 104:34  My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.
Let us remind ourselves about what the Christmas message is about.  It's about a baby (the most important baby of all) born in a stable because there was no room at the inn.  No Christmas dinner for Mary and Joseph!


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: ollie on December 09, 2004, 08:52:19 AM
2nd Timothy,

It's a sick and evil world that we live in, and it's getting worse by the minute. Many public schools have already banned Christmas Carols and plays. A nativity scene would be out of the question. It's also interesting to note that any reference to God or Christ is being removed from all books used in public schools. It's not Thanksgiving, rather a feast day. The examples go on and on.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 104:34  My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.
Let us remind ourselves about what the Christmas message is about.  It's about a baby (the most important baby of all) born in a stable because there was no room at the inn.  No Christmas dinner for Mary and Joseph!
Where in the Bible is it stated that the narrative telling of the events surrounding Christ's flesh birth is "the Christmas message"? Where is man told to remember and celebrate His birth? What does Christ and later through Paul say to be remembered till He comes?

My apologies for continuing off topic.

ollie



Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: cris on December 09, 2004, 12:52:35 PM



I'm not so sure we shouldn't celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.  If His birth wasn't important it wouldn't be remembered in the bible.  This celebration has everything to do with HOW we celebrate it.

As I was reading all the posts I realized the importance of remembering His birth.  God knew there would be no room in the Inn.  He knew Jesus would be placed in a manger.  Is there some significance to this?  I think so.  A manger is a feeding dish for animals.  At the Last Supper He told His disciples to eat and drink of His body and blood.  No, I'm not saying we're animals.  He who has an ear!

On sin and disease-------the bible says disease is caused by original sin, Gen. 3:16-19, man's sin, 2Kings 5:27, 2 Chron. 21:12-19, Satan's afflictions Job 2:7, Luke 13:16 and God's sovereign will, John 9:1-3 and 2Cor. 12:7-10.  Read Psalm 51, especially 5 through 9.

IMO I believe we can reap what our ancestors sowed, at least the consequences thereof.  We just have to turn all of this over to Jesus---------He can and will deliver.  Praise You Lord God for your saving grace.

I'm so very glad You were born, Jesus!!!  Amen.



 

   


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Shylynne on January 22, 2005, 12:22:32 PM
A Pastoral Response to the Juryís Verdict  (Excellent!)

"What has Rev. Creech done? As a  pastor, he presided over a "covenanting service" for two lesbians... After his acquittal, Rev. Creech explained that he was simply serving the spiritual needs of two female church members. That sounds so warm and fuzzy and pastoral, who could deny such high motives? But it also sounds like the situation surrounding the recent visit to a nearby city of a medium and best-selling author who claims to talk to dead people. One person who attended his performance started out skeptical, but now does not know if he is a scam artist or for real. This person concluded that his message "affirms what I want to believe and thatís sometimes all that we need."  Thanks to Rev. Jimmy Creech and five of my fellow clergy, truth is now reduced to what human beings want to believe. You want your poodle baptized? Donít worry about what the Bible says, all that matters is what you want to believe. Want to marry your mailbox? Donít worry about the tradition of the past 2,000 years of Church practice. If you want to believe it, we want you to believe it. Want to worship Elvis or Marilyn Manson? If you want it, weíll bless it.

Yet, throughout the history of the church, matters of faith have never been left solely to the subjective whims and caprice of individuals. The church has historically employed four sources of authority in matters of faith: scripture, tradition, experience, and reason. Scripture is our primary source and criterion for Christian doctrine. Scripture, in fact, has primacy in theological reflection. Primacy is defined as "first in time, order, rank, etc.; supremacy." The Churchís historical tradition, personal and corporate experience, and reason are properly used to interpret the Bible, but Rev. Creech and his allies have improperly used personal and corporate (albeit on a small scale) experience and human reason to overrule scripture because they do not like or believe what it says about homosexuality. They claim to have a special, secret knowledge of the will of God that the rest of us feeble, unenlightened, unwashed, misguided souls can never have if we insist upon sticking to the plain meaning of Holy Scripture. They exalt reason over scripture, citing alleged scientific evidence which sounds rather reminiscent of the alleged scientific evidence developed by The Tobacco Institute that cigarette smoking does not cause lung cancer or heart disease. In their own interpretive dance, they appeal to arcane scholarly interpretations of biblical prescriptions and proscriptions that claim the "real" meaning of the ancient biblical languages do not mean what centuries of learned scholars and diverse bodies of translators have determined these passages mean. They and those others who believe that God is continuing to reveal truths not contained in or inconsistent with the truth revealed in the Bible have exchanged their authority as ministers of The  Church for the false robes of priests and priestesses of gnosticism. Gnosticism was heresy in the history of the Early Church. It remains heresy."
amen!

excerpt - http://www.confessingumc.org/sermon_dicken.html


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: nChrist on January 22, 2005, 02:57:38 PM
Quote
Shylynne Said:

They and those others who believe that God is continuing to reveal truths not contained in or inconsistent with the truth revealed in the Bible have exchanged their authority as ministers of The  Church for the false robes of priests and priestesses of gnosticism. Gnosticism was heresy in the history of the Early Church. It remains heresy."
amen!

Shylynne,

Sister, thanks for sharing this with us. I look around today with absolute shock about what is happening in so many so-called churches and ministries. If they are churches and ministries, they belong to the devil, not Christ. Most older Christians would have never dreamed some of the things happening today. What bothers me the most is some who flaunt their open and continued wallowing in sin and darkness, all the while professing Jesus. In my opinion, this is slapping our Lord and Saviour in the face with evil, and they never knew Jesus, nor does JESUS know them.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 121:1  I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Shylynne on January 22, 2005, 03:05:16 PM
Quote
Shylynne Said:

They and those others who believe that God is continuing to reveal truths not contained in or inconsistent with the truth revealed in the Bible have exchanged their authority as ministers of The  Church for the false robes of priests and priestesses of gnosticism. Gnosticism was heresy in the history of the Early Church. It remains heresy."
amen!

Shylynne,

Sister, thanks for sharing this with us. I look around today with absolute shock about what is happening in so many so-called churches and ministries. If they are churches and ministries, they belong to the devil, not Christ. Most older Christians would have never dreamed some of the things happening today. What bothers me the most is some who flaunt their open and continued wallowing in sin and darkness, all the while professing Jesus. In my opinion, this is slapping our Lord and Saviour in the face with evil, and they never knew Jesus, nor does JESUS know them.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 121:1  I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

Amen Tom!
"...Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God"


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: dragon on January 23, 2005, 11:23:13 PM
i think that there are two kinds of homosexuality:  biological and environmental.  just as there are two kinds of depression:  biological and environmental.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: Shylynne on January 24, 2005, 07:47:25 AM
i think that there are two kinds of homosexuality:  biological and environmental.  just as there are two kinds of depression:  biological and environmental.

 Sin by any other name is still sin.


Title: Re:A touchy subject
Post by: M on January 24, 2005, 10:55:48 AM
Until the 1970's homosexual behaviour was considered a disorder by psychologists and psychiatrists.  They had little success at treatment.  This condition causes a great number of people to suffer no matter what any group says.  Because no one really knows what causes the condition and how to treat it, it was taken out of the book of disorders that doctors use to diagnose.  Homosexual acts were also considered crimes in most countries and people could be put in jail for committing them.  I am sure if the big pharmaceutical companies had come up with a "cure" for homosexual urges, they would be pushing their pills with tv commercials like they do with Viagra.  

Sexual activity is not the most important aspect of our life on earth but some people insist on basing their whole identity on it.  They call themselves "homosexuals" and say they have a gay lifestyle.  So then the sin becomes so deep in their lives it becomes part of their personality and identity.  It is so so sad because some people are telling them homosexual activity is not a sin.  It is very difficult for some people to accept that it is sin. I pray often for people I know suffering from this sin but I don't have much hope that they will be able to become saved when they are so deep into a sinful lifestyle.  

Often people "decide" that they are "gay" during early adolescence.  They are often teased about how they look or different personality traits.  More often from talking to these people I find that they were introduced into the lifestyle by being sexually abused.  They suffered guilt and anger at being abused, and were told that the guilt and anger would go away once they accepted that they were "gay".  I don't know if this is the case for everyone, but this is largely what I have observed.  It is often suggested that gender identification with the parents plays a large role in the development of the personality.