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Presbyterians to divest from Israel
3 million-strong denomination supports Arab demands
Posted: July 17, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2004 WorldNetDaily.com
By an overwhelming vote of its general assembly, the Presbyterian Church USA, boasting 3 million members, is siding with Palestinian Arabs and against Israel, choosing to divest from the Jewish state as it did only with apartheid South Africa.
With the decision, approved in a 431-62 vote at the 216th annual general assembly of the PCUSA, the denomination is believed to be the largest organization or institution to join the divestment campaign against Israel. It is the first Christian denomination to do so.
In 2001, the combined value of the church's foundation and pension fund was estimated at $7 billion.
Leaders of the liberal mainline Protestant church approved several other anti-Israel resolutions at their gathering in Richmond, Va., and also refused to halt funding for "messianic congregations" that target Jews for conversion.
The Presbyterian resolutions came just as Jewish organizations were hailing the results of a historic international interfaith meeting in Buenos Aires last week, where Roman Catholic officials for the first time signed on to a document equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.
The assembly set the stage for the church to divest itself from companies that receive $1 million dollars or more in profits per year from investments in Israel or have invested $1 million dollars or more in Israel.
In a news release, the PCUSA liaison to the Middle East, Rev. Victor Makari, was quoted as saying: "If nothing else seems to have changed the policy of Israel toward Palestinians, we need to send a clear and strong message."
The church statement noted that "divestment is one of the strategies that U.S. churches used in the 1970s and '80s in a successful campaign to end apartheid in South Africa."

2 John 7-11

7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
KJV


Israel is a antichrist nation.

From a political standpoint..  

The nation of Israel has the same, or should have, rights as, say, Kuwait.  The USA pushed out her invading forces.  We sent solders to their deaths defending the right of Kuwait to be a nation. Both countries , States,  or what ever the political correct term of the day is, came fully into being after WWII. I would , if it was mine to would   :P,  give help or what ever the same aid to Israel as we ( USA) did for Kuwait.  

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Israel is still God's chosen people. Bible prophecy clearly states that Israel will be center stage for the end times of this age. We must also remember that the man, Christ Jesus, came unto HIS own. HIS own were Jews.

There is much Biblical prophecy yet to be fulfilled with Israel. There are also promises of God to Israel that will be most definitely fulfilled.

Heads of State may or may not believe in Biblical prophecy and the promises of God to Israel. It is clear that many do not. It is also apparent that many churches either do not understand or disbelieve Biblical prophecy and the promises of God to Israel. I would quickly state that I don't understand all of the Biblical details about Israel. However, I would state with certainty that GOD isn't through with Israel.

As an overly simple statement, I would say it's not smart to go against Israel, nor would it be smart to neglect their needs. Regardless of how small Israel may be, it will most certainly be the world center stage for Biblical prophecy. No power on earth will be able to change the outcome. God's will and purpose for Israel will be fulfilled, regardless of how many nations stand against it or attack it.

Sister Reba, I'm well aware that most people in Israel don't accept Jesus Christ as GOD, Lord and Saviour. However, I'm also aware that God isn't through with Israel. If it came down to a fight with Israel, I would have to fight on the side of Israel.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Politically we argree Mr. Bepster.  :)

Oklahoma Howdy to Reba,

Sister, I think that I understand.

Can I assume that you would not join the Israeli Rest Home Brigade with me. Some of their weapons are awesome (i.e. bedpans).  ;D

Love In Christ,
Tom

Israel is still God's chosen people...Amen Tom, i would have to agree strongly with Tom on this one. Paul says God blinded the Jews so the Gentiles could be grafted in, to provoke them to jealousy... and to watch that we as Christians dont boast against the first branches.

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27  For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29  For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.

She may not join you but, I will Beeps. ;D I am still a very good shot with assorted weapons. :-[

Oklahoma Howdy to AJ,

Your post hit the nail on the head. Romans 11:29 speaks of the perfect Character of Almighty God. "Without repentance" pertains to God not taking back HIS promises and always fulfilling them at HIS appointed time. Men are grossly imperfect, they lie, and they can't be trusted to keep an agreement, promise, or covenant. Almighty God is the opposite. A promise, gift, or covenant of Almighty God will be kept and performed beyond the measure of men. It's interesting to note that we never deserve to receive HIS Grace, Love, Gifts, and promises. On the opposite end of the scale, those who have been promised HIS wrath richly deserve it.

I give thanks that most of us on Christians Unite are partakers of HIS Grace, Love, Gifts, and promises, even though we don't deserve it. I especially give thanks to Almighty God that HIS perfection means that our Riches in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour, will not be taken back. Jesus Christ, GOD and Great Shepherd, will not lose a single member of HIS Flock. This is because of HIS Might, Works, and Righteousness, not our own.

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS UNSPEAKABLE GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour for eternity!

AJ, thanks for your beautiful post.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hey guys i didn't write the little books of John just  quoted em. sheeesh...

;D

 ;D   ;D  Sister, it would have been nice for you to tell us this earlier.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I suppose since I started this thread without giving an opinion one way or another, I should at least chip in with my take; I am disappointed in the Presbyterians.  I agree that that Israel is chosen by God, and although the majority of Israel still strays from The Word, we know from prophecy that it will not always be so.  As a Christian I feel bound to Israel, scripturally and spiritually.  One day we will all occupy Jerusalem as one flock.  

To me, Christians siding with Muslims against the Jewish nation of Israel just doesn’t play.  It goes against everything I’ve ever been taught – from Genesis through Revelation: Moses leading the chosen from Egypt to the 144,000 - 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes...  

Hi X,

What does this verse mean to you?

Heb 12:22

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
KJV

Reba Asks: Well,
If you put it in context with the verses before and after, it is a message against saying "No" to God.  Am I close?

Heb 12:14-29
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.  See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.  See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.  Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.  
You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned."  The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?  At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain.  
Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our "God is a consuming fire."

Very beautiful scripture!  Thanks for reminding us, Reba!  :)

Signed,
X
 ;D

Are you in THAT Jerusalem?

No, Ma'am.  I'm still stuck in Concord, California.  :'(

These verses were omitted.

 Romans 11:20.  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
 21.  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
 22.  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
 23.  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Does faith play a part in God's grafting Israel back? If belief, what happens? If not belief, what happens? What must they believe in to be grafted in again?

Ollie

What promise did Jesus not complete?

Ollie asks a question He already knows the answer to:Jesus.
John 3:16
 :)

Okay this is what this means to me. I am sure that others will have a different meaning.
Hebrews 12:22 The covenant in Christ gives us direct access to God ,
Hebrews 12:23 makes us members of the Christian community, God's children, a sanctified people,
Hebrews 12:24 who have Jesus as mediator to speak for us.
Hebrews 12:25-26 Not to heed the voice of the risen Christ is a graver sin than the rejection of the word of Moses.
Hebrews 12:28-29 Though Christians fall away, God's kingdom in Christ will remain and his justice will punish those guilty of deserting it.

Therefore are we to be any different to Israel in rejecting Christ than we are to any gentile rejecting Christ?

God is not a respector of persons. Why all the loyalty to an anti-Christ nation just because they refer to themselves as Israel? If a remnant within Israel has to believe in Christ to be grafted back in to be part of God's people, how does that set them apart from the gentile believer. Why the special attention to Israel when there is neither jew nor gentile in Christ?

 ???

ollie

Ollie; I understand your point perfectly and respect your point of view.  However, personally I don’t see Israel as any more or less evil than any other nation.  True, they have a proportionally fewer number of Christians than some western nations, but given the choice of supporting, say Turkey or Israel my personal and highly biased choice is Israel.  Maybe I can’t explain why – maybe it’s something like preferring apple pie over cherry pie.  
Or maybe it is because I’ve been taught that the nation of Israel has to exist so ‘the cows can come home’ so to speak.
 :)

Simply, because God chose (through Abraham) his descendants to be His people. In the course of that choosing, God intended fully to bless all other nations and peoples, and He did....but He also made certain specific promises to the nation of Israel that pertain to the physical, not just the spiritual.  Among those promises are that Israel (as a group of people and nation) would NEVER be destroyed completely, that a direct descendent of David would sit (on this earth) on the throne (as King of Israel) and administer Gods law perfectly to all peoples and nations. Also, that although Israel would be punished for their rejection of Messiah, and dispersed, they would be brought back together again from everywhere they had been sent.

In short....God does not want His people Israel despised, rejected, or fought against. "...I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee..."

In Mat. 25 Jesus speaks to the issue of allowing certain people into the Kingdom that He will institute on this earth...called the "judgment of the nations".  Read it carefully, and you will notice that the criteria for admission is how those people (nations) treated His brethren...ie: the Jews.

Also note that admission is not tantamount to salvation, but only participation in the Millennial Kingdom.

1 Peter 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
KJV

I just reread Matt 25 and i can not find where Jesus talks about Himself having a earthly kingdom. I do know He tells us and Pilate His Kingdom is not of this world.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Psa 132:11 The LORD hath sworn [in] truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:11   And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12   His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Of course, this is a period of time preceeding the GWTJ, consists of 1,000 years of earthly reign.  As an orthodox preterist, I wouldn't expect you to agree, though.

Mat 25:31   When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32   And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33   And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34   Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

And this denotes the point in time when Jesus returns to the earth with His saints (noted in Rev and elsewhere) to begin that Millennial reign.

Where does Jesus say His kingdom is earthly?


 Jesus does tell us this..
John 18:36

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
KJV

In the above verse...

Jesus claims a kingdom  tells us it is not of this world, tells us he has servants.

Reba:

And the last words of that verse which you don't seem to address, are..."NOW (meaning time, the here and now, which was 2000 years ago) is my kingdom not from hence (here, earthly)".


Jesus is the Word, right?
The Word of God.
The Word of God (bible) is the inspired Word, correct? "ALL scripture is God-breathed..."

There were plenty of scriptures (inspired Word that speak of Jesus) posted that tell of a coming earthly kingdom and reign.

Do you believe in the Trinity?

We agree 100%



Chapter and verse please.


Yes

                    ***********************
I grew up on dispy teaching Dad was a AofG pastor. I will be 58 this year. I tell you this because we do not know each other and background can be helpfull in the forums.

Good morning Reba!
Here’s a couple of verses I believe indicate an Earthly Kingdom:

Zechariah 14:4  
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives…
The Lord physically comes to earth.

Zechariah 14:9
And the LORD shall be King over all the earth.  
There are no verses in Zechariah 14 that indicate the Lord returns to heaven to rule from there, but all indications are He remains in Jerusalem.

What’s your take on these verses from your teachings? – or Zechariah 14 as a whole?
God bless,
JN

The Coming physical kingdom of God is in the OT prophecies and the book of Revelation...we need to look for them if we are Preterist, and separate them from the spiritual sayings of Christ. Same goes for the New Heaven and Earth that God will create for this everlasting Kingdom. There are spiritual sayings about this kingdom, and physical sayings as well... if we divide the word... all will fall into place. Remember Jesus and Nicodemus? One of my fav Scriptures for this coming kingdom is found in Daniel 7:14

Dan 7:13  I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14  And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not
be destroyed.

Dan 7:14  And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him


Are all people, nations, and languages, serveing Christ yet? No... but they will after he comes with the clouds of heaven.

God Bless you all

  Smart Move X using the word indicate!  ;)

I will try and put my thoughts in words the best way for me to do that is to ask questions, or make simple one line statments...

I do not understand Zec to be literal.

Do you? and if you do what are the living waters in verse 8?

Literaly verse 4  the mount of olives splits 4 ways and makes a great valley.It splits east from west and then moves north from south.  Mt Olive is about 700 yards from the temple  mount. This is valley the the living waters flow from.

You well remember i am not good at this X
 
Matt 21:1
21:1 And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
KJV
Luke 19:37-38

37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;

38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
KJV

Seems a lot happened coming off of the Mt. of Olives. The begining of the CROSS (sorta) Could it be that the mount of olives symbolic of   " olive oil" or the Holy Spirit...


What is see as the difference is the CROSS the CROSS of Christ is the center of all history ( i am not talking of years but of value) The OT looked to the CROSS the NT looks to the CROSS.

As for Christ reigning... He sets at the right hand of the Father.  He has all power in Heaven and earth.  He claimed to Pilate to have a kingdom " My kingdom". He preached the kingdom. God tell us in Romans via Paul what the kingdom is...

Rom 14:17

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
KJV

I would that my thoughts of scripture, the doctrines i see etc. would or could 'fit into' the very words of Jesus. Not that  ALL of scripture is not Thee Word, but that Jesus understood scritpure and explained it better ....

I am ready pick my humble words apart  :P

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Psa 132:11 The LORD hath sworn [in] truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:11   And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12   His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Of course, this is a period of time preceeding the GWTJ, consists of 1,000 years of earthly reign.  As an orthodox preterist, I wouldn't expect you to agree, though.
Mat 25:31   When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32   And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33   And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34   Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

As previously posted. I also have quite a few more, if you would like them.

***********************

I'm not a "traditional" dispy. I'm 64, and began preaching in '52 as a child evangelist. I've never been to seminary, and I don't "study" or read very much outside of the Bible, although I'm quite familiar with what many others are teaching and writing about. Try as hard as I can, I haven't been able to turn clear references in The Word about an earthly throne and kingdom into allegorical or spiritualized references, nor have I been able to make the tribulation period past tense and condensed to only 2 years (69-71 AD). I also can't figure out how a "millennium", or 1,000 year period can be stretched out to 2000 plus........, nor can I equate the observable condition of the world today as being synonymous with a time of peace, prosperity, health and general well-being. Haven't been able to find any swords beaten into plowshares, or any lions and lambs playing footsie.

Isa 9;7 does not say His kingdom is earthly

Psa 132:11 does not say anything about an earthly kingdom

Shall i go on? The verses posted do not say The kingdom of God ( use the phrase you choose) is earthly, or will be earthly. Then add that Christ Himself said it was not of this world, and tells us it is rightiousness peace and joy in the Holy Ghost....i guess we could repete these verses back and forth fora while  :P .

I have been told here at CU that Jesus is co-regent with David.... Now that floored me.

Thanks for the quick personal history it really helps.  :)

The Tale of Two Jerusalems / a current read,  thought I would share the link
http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/debate3.html

Isa 9....just where do you think David's throne is? Originally, it was in Jerusalem. When he died it was still there. I'm sure it has long since disappeared, but it's pretty plain that David sat on a physical throne ruling a physical nation from a physical place on this physical earth.

Psa 132....same thing applies....."of the fruit (physical) of thy body (physical)....set upon thy throne (physical).

Yes, we could go on forever, and forever you will continue to spiritualize the physical, so no need.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


My last shot ....


lets take this verse literally...it says "even for ever" then David is still king on the throne correct?  

Been a pleasent disagreemeant  Evangelist thanks for the conversation  :)

The subject of the conversation is not David, but his successor...the one promised by God to be raised up of David's flesh (line) to ascend the throne. It is HIS government that will increase, and bring peace, and establish with judgment and justice "even forever".

Please note that at the time Jesus returns to the earth and establishes His Millennial Kingdom (Rev 20), it goes for 1,000 years, and is followed by the GWTJ, followed by eternity on the new earth and heavens in the New Jerusalem.....ergo, when Jesus begins His reign, it goes on "even for ever".

Yes, it has been pleasant. Thank you too!

You made my point well Evanglest.

Ahhhhh....I don't think so. Unless I have completely misunderstood, your "point" is that there is no earthly throne for Jesus, He does not rule on this earth. In line with preterist thinking, the tribulation has already occurred, the millennium is now, and when Jesus returns it will be hasta la vista via the GWTJ.

That is NOT what I said.  ;D

The point is  Isa is about Jesus HE is my King. He is your king also correct. You will say say HE is not your king HE sets at the right hand of the Father...


Sheeesh a few posts back i said no more i hate when i fib  :-X


Shall we find a different topic to disagree about  Evanglist?  :)


Your ever seen the cartoon  CATDOG ?  

Ahhhhh....hmmmmm.....you lost me. I will say HE is NOT my king? I don't think so.

You are correct....the Isaiah passage is about Jesus, and how He is going to sit upon the throne of David. Right now He is sitting at the right hand of the Father....not upon the throne of David....that comes later.

 

Me too. :-[  

 

Ok. How about when the book of Revelation was written? ;D

 
 

No, don't think so. Is that anything like a HeShe?   :-X

Your ever seen the cartoon  CATDOG ?
 
No, don't think so. Is that anything like a HeShe?

(http://www.nick.com/common/images/tv/new/catdog/main_page/cat_dog.gif)

"Do you believe in the Trinity?"

Hi,

I've been following the discussion, but your last question confuses me.
What does the trinity and believing in it have to do with the discussion?

Ollie

How do these verses fit in with the discussion where Paul states flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God?
That which was natural was first then the spiritual etc. Christ stops reigning when death is destroyed etc.etc.

1 Corinthians 15:20.  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
 21.  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
 22.  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 23.  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
 24.  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
 25.  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
 26.  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 27.  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
 28.  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
 29.  Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
 30.  And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
 31.  I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
 32.  If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
 33.  Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
 34.  Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
 35.  But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
 36.  Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
 37.  And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
 38.  But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
 39.  All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
 40.  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
 41.  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
 42.  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
 43.  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
 44.  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
 45.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
 46.  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
 47.  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
 48.  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
 49.  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
 50.  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 51.  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
 52.  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 53.  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
 54.  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 55.  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
 56.  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
 57.  But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 58.  Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.


Ollie

Thank you Miss Heart!

 

LOL! In one post, Reba had said "Jesus did not say...of this earth", implying that if Jesus (or the words) did not specifically use those words, then it could not be true.

The question was only to bring home a point...there are times, and scriptures, when we must of necessity consider a large number of them and infer what they are referring to....such as "the Trinity".  That word and direct reference is not in the Bible, but the doctrine is inferred from a number of different places.

So too with David's throne...one given to him by God, actually existing on this physical earth, etc.....

1 Cor 15:46-50

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

You're most welcome!  :-*

 ;D