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"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: 'If ANYONE worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name. This calls for patient endurance on the part of THE SAINTS who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus' " (Rev. 14:9-12).

 The technology to impliment a world wide micro chip system is here. No more cash. No more credit cards.

 The selling point in order to get as many people to accept this chip will be like cream on rasberries!

 No more illegal buying or selling of drugs - stolen property. "Help! my child was abducted!" Hey, don't sweat it mayam, we know exactly where he is, and we know exactly who has him. Way less robberies because guns won't work unless the person with the correct chip fires it, and even if a crime occures, we know exactly who did it, and we can find them immediately!
 Ever find yourself passed out and doctors don't know anything about your medical history? GONE! now the doctors simply scan you and viola! It goes on and on friends. How else can we explain the reason why so many will take the mark? It is the utmost invasion of privacy for starters, and most people are aware of the Bible warning whether they belive it or not.

 It is here...Check out this web site.
http://www.digitalangel.net/consumer.asp (http://www.digitalangel.net/consumer.asp)

As I reported in another thread, about a month ago, Prince Charles already has a chip inbedded.

 Charles isn't a Jew, how can he be the antichrist? Also, after all his well publicised blunders and scandals, how could anyone believe he was God? As you know, the antichrist stands in the temple and proclaims himself to be God.

  The "mark of the beast" is the opposite of the "seal of God". Those who followed the corrupt religious leaders of jerusalem "spiritual babylon", met their horrible death in the siege of Jerusalem in 70ad. A mark is a "target", someone marked for destruction. As the "144000" were sealed from this destruction, so the ones that worshipped the "enemies" of God and Christ in the first century met with destruction. Look at Daniel to see the description of the the number "666". It was the number of the babylonian "statue", which represented Jerusalem in pre 70ad.
  It is umbiblical to put that 2000 or more years in the future, unless you just like reading fiction books and end times sites. Unless you really read and study the prophets, revelation will always remain a "fiction" book to many.


Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and His Number is Six Hundred and Sixty-Six.(600/60(3score)/6)
IMAGE:   1504 eikon i-kone' from 1503; a likeness, i.e. (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance:--image 1503 eiko i'-ko apparently a primary verb (perhaps akin to 1502 through the idea of faintness as a copy); to resemble:--be like.
mark: 5480 charagma khar'-ag-mah from the same as 5482; a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or scupltured figure (statue):--graven, mark. 5482 charax khar'-ax from charasso (to sharpen to a point; akin to 1125 through the idea of scratching); a stake, i.e. (by implication) a palisade or rampart (military mound for circumvallation in a siege):--trench(which would cause a famine because No One could get food?).ANOTHER WORDS, "MARKED" FOR DESTRUCTION.

Daniel 3:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king(of Babylon) made an image of gold(600?), whose height was threescore cubits(60), and the breadth there of 6 cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. 4 Then the herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, 5 that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up; 6 and whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace 28 Nebuchadnezzar spake and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants (from the furnace) that trusted in Him, and have changed the king's word, and have yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

IHIT...

 Where do you get these twisted explanations my friend?
What God saya about the mark of the beast and 666...

 Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:  


 Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.  

 The above verse doesn't make sense contectually with your explanation. Clearly the mark is used in part, as some sort of currency, whereas no one can buy or sell without it.


 Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.  

 It is the number of a man. Not a statue.


 

Hi everyone,
                My understanding of 'the mark of the beast', 666 - is that it refers to 'mammon worship'. That is; love, fear, enslavement to - money. "You cannot serve money and God"

Anyone agree?   -Joe

Welcome Joe. Are you new here, or have you signed in under a different username?

 Sorry I can't agree with you on this one my friend.
I take the Bible literally, so when God says there will be a mark in the hand, or forehead, I believe Him.

 It's not ambiguous at all. The Bible further asserts that no man may buy or sell unless he has the mark, which really substantiates the fact that the mark is used, at least in part, as a form or currency. It is widely believed among Christians that the latest technology involving microchips seems to fit the description very well. There are people right now who actually have microchips inserted in their bodies, and are involved in studies pertaining to the practicality of daily usage. The idea that we are heading for a cash-less society is not far fetched at all, and is being discussed by many European countries at present.

 There will be many seemingly invaluable reasons for people to accept such an idea as an implanted microchip. It would virtually cut crime down to almost zero in short order. There are many advantages including having all pertinent personal information in-coded on the chip, including, medical, drivers license, recent photo, etc. Also, if your child goes missing, he or she can be found instantly. If the child was abducted, not only will authorities find the child, they will also know precisely who took the child and where he/she is at any given moment.
 It's not difficult to see how easy this type of physical intrusion could be to implement.

Hey BronzeSnake, here is something new.

Chip Implanted in Mexico Judicial Workers
 
Jul 14, 5:30 PM (ET)

By WILL WEISSERT


MEXICO CITY (AP) - Security has reached the subcutaneous level for Mexico's attorney general and at least 160 people in his office - they have been implanted with microchips that get them access to secure areas of their headquarters.

It's a pioneering application of a technology that is widely used in animals but not in humans.

Mexico's top federal prosecutors and investigators began receiving chip implants in their arms in November in order to get access to restricted areas inside the attorney general's headquarters, said Antonio Aceves, general director of Solusat, the company that distributes the microchips in Mexico.

Attorney General Rafael Macedo de la Concha and 160 of his employees were implanted at a cost to taxpayers of $150 for each rice grain-sized chip.

More are scheduled to get "tagged" in coming months, and key members of the Mexican military, the police and the office of President Vicente Fox might follow suit, Aceves said. Fox's office did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

A spokeswoman for Macedo de la Concha's office said she could not comment on Aceves' statements, citing security concerns. But Macedo himself mentioned the chip program to reporters Monday, saying he had received an implant in his arm. He said the chips were required to enter a new federal anti-crime information center.

"It's only for access, for security," he said.

The chips also could provide more certainty about who accessed sensitive data at any given time. In the past, the biggest security problem for Mexican law enforcement has been corruption by officials themselves.

Aceves said his company eventually hopes to provide Mexican officials with implantable devices that can track their physical location at any given time, but that technology is still under development.

 
(AP) Carlos Altamirano is being scanned to show the 16 digits code of the implanted VeriChip July 17,...
Full Image
 
 
The chips that have been implanted are manufactured by VeriChip Corp., a subsidiary of Applied Digital Solutions Inc. (ADSX) of Palm Beach, Fla.

They lie dormant under the skin until read by an electromagnetic scanner, which uses a technology known as radio frequency identification, or RFID, that's now getting hot in the inventory and supply chain businesses.

Scott Silverman, Applied Digital Solutions' chief executive, said each of his company's implantable chips has a special identification number that would foil an impostor.

"The technology is out there to duplicate (a chip)," he said. "What can't be stolen is the unique identification number and the information that is tied to that number."

Erik Michielsen, director of RFID analysis at ABI Research Inc., said that in theory the chips could be as secure as existing RFID-based access control systems such as the contactless employee badges widely used in corporate and government facilities.

However, while those systems often employ encryption, Applied Digital's implantable chips do not as yet. Silverman said his company's system is nevertheless save because its chips can only be read by the company's proprietary scanners.

In addition to the chips sold to the Mexican government, more than 1,000 Mexicans have implanted them for medical reasons, Aceves said. Hospital officials can use a scanning device to download a chip's serial number, which they then use to access a patient's blood type, name and other information on a computer.

The Food and Drug Administration has yet to approve microchips as medical devices in the United States.

Still, Silverman said that his company has sold 7,000 chips to distributors across the United States and that more than 1,000 of those had likely been inserted into U.S. customers, mostly for security or identification reasons.

In 2002, a Florida couple and their teenage son had Applied Digital Solutions chips implanted in their arms. The family hoped to someday be able to automatically relay their medical information to emergency room staffers.

The chip originally was developed to track livestock and wildlife and to let pet owners identify runaway animals. The technology was created by Digital Angel Corp. (DOC), which was acquired by Applied Digital Solutions in 1999.

Because the Applied Digital chips cannot be easily removed - and are housed in glass capsules designed to break and be unusable if taken out - they could be even more popular someday if they eventually can incorporate locator capabilities. Already, global positioning system chips have become common accouterments on jewelry or clothing in Mexico.

In fact, in March, Mexican authorities broke up a ring of used-car salesmen turned kidnappers who were known as "Los Chips" because they searched their victims to detect whether they were carrying the chips to help them be located.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040714/D83QQBP80.html

Hold on folks - clear something up for me.  Several posts in this thread allude to the beast taking the mark of the beast.  Is that in prophesy?  Does the beast have to take his own mark?  Why?
Also; I was taught that the antichrist (not just any antichrist – there are many – but THE antichrist) would be of Romanic descent.  I read here that he will be a Jew.  Can a Jew be of Romanic descent?  
Thanks in advance for clearing these things up for me!
JN

Hi Folks this is certainly a good topic for discussion.
This has bothered me for years. I believe thats a serious threat to Christians. Do you think this technology will be forced on unwilling citizens?

 I hope I am not flamed for this but I have believed for a long time that walmart is part of this whole big plan. It has put untold numbers companies out of business. It destroys the small business owner and ultimately we will have no choices where to buy anything!
It will be a lot easier to control citizen buying if there are only a certain number of corporations.

Ooo - good point.  Isn't that one of the reasons behind the laws in the US that prohibit monopolies?

Good questions guys.   To answer Jesusinme's question, I THINK it will start out innocent enough.  Kind of like your drivers liscense....You don't have to have one, but it becomes a neccessity in order to operate in todays society.  I believe its purpose is to expose Believers to Satan who will be the only ones who would outrightly refuse such a thing even after it is made into Law.   While I don't think the mark of the beast has arrived as of yet, there is no question that the "system" for the first time in history is in place for such a thing to become reality.  Sobering indeed.

Judgenot, I must have missed the post where the Antichrist would take his own mark, I don't think I have ever seen that in scripture.   Maybe he will just as an example?  I am shrugging!
As to the ancestry of this man, I think that too is unclear.    I believe the thinking behind him being of Jewish decent, is that one must be Jewish in order to enter the temple which Daniel says the Antichrist will do at the Abomination of Desolation.   Sorta makes sense, there is also some indication in scripture he could be of Syrian decent.   Then again, theres others who think it is the false prophet who will be of jewish decent.   While I think there may be a good indication who these individuals are before hand, I don't think any of this will be known for certain until the restrainer is removed and he is "revealved" as it says in Thessalonians.  

Sobering times we live in for sure.

Grace and Peace!

hey Joe Welcome!


I agree the number 666 is not a number that I want to mess around with!


True, Only if I had money to take care of my health though. I've had no money since July 21st, 2003. Awaiting SSDI can really Humble someone!!  :'(

Blessings,   \o/

KristiAnn

That has been going on for hundreds of years my friend. There are a lot more aggressive companies than Wallmart.
Maybe you should just get another job. ;) (just kidding - sorry, I had to do it)

As far as your question..."Do you think this technology will be forced on unwilling citizens?" The Bible says saved Christians will be raptured (you may or may not agree with the rapture) long before the mark of the beast comes into effect. Those who accept the mark "willingly" are doomed to Hell. Those who refuse the mark, are beheaded.

Bronzesnake

Hello JN

I can't find a posts where the antichrist takes his own mark. It isn't in the bible either.

As far as the antichrist is concerned, - his ancestry is not revealed in the bible. However - the final world power is revealed as the revived Roman empire. There is excellent biblical evidence for this in Daniel2:31-43.

I believe the antichrist will imitate Jesus, however, I also believe the antichrist will reveal himself as the Islamic "Allah" my reasons for believing this can be found in "satan will claim to be Allah" post.

 Bronzesnake.

Hahahaha Bronzesnake
seriously though I believe in the rapture but ya know what that is but a scant number 144,000 I love the Lord, but I feel not as worthy as some I know, and probably many more I don't
So I guess...................Off With My Head :-\

Bronzesnake said:2nd Timothy said:As how I got the impression the antichrist would take his own mark, DreamWeaver said: “As I reported in another thread, about a month ago, Prince Charles already has a chip inbedded.”   Then Bronzesnake said in the followup post: “Charles isn't a Jew, how can he be the antichrist?”

That exchange is the basis for both of my questions.  :)

PS: - it seems I got the impression that the anitchrist would be of Romanic descent from Hal Lindsey's 'Late Great Planet Earth' - I'm still trying to pin that one down - forgive me my memory losses - that happens to us ol'-farts.  ;D

Pay close attention to:
Dan 11:24   He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do [that] which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: [yea], and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

This is another description of the anti-christ....notice the reference to "do which his fathers have not done, nor his father's fathers...". Also, the first line about entering peaceable upon the "fattest" places is a reference about being able to enter into areas that are reserved for "high-ranking" Jews ONLY.

If you look carefully at Jewish history, you'll notice that even though many of the kings were abominable and turned against God, not once did any of them "scatter (the people) among the prey...", or intentionally turn the Hebrews over to another country or people for destruction.

I vote for the a/c being Jewish, and for the false prophet to be a reconstituted "high priest" in the rebuilt temple.

 You do, of course know where the Islamic faith had it's beginnings?

Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.  

Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.  

Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Gen 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.

Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

 The antichrist will be of Jewish descent. However, that doesn't mean he will show himself as Jesus.

 Consider the following two verses...

  In the following verse, satan makes war with Christians...therefore, he can not be coming as a false Jesus.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

In this verse, God warns the Jews to run to the hills! Apparently this false god also hates Jews!

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

 These two verses seem to rule out the antichrist appearing as Jesus. The idea that he could appear as the Islamic "Allah" fits much better. He is of the proper decent, and we all know what the Islamic attitude is toward Jews and Christians.

Bronzesnake.

 Do you think the 144,000 from Revelation are raptured saints?
You must be a J.W. That teaching is not correct my friend. If you read the King James version of Revelation you will see the raptured saints standing in Heaven and their numbers were so great that "no man could number"

  Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;  

 The New World Translation is a false translation, which was proven in a Scottish court, when the leader of the translation team could not translate a simple verse of Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic. Yet, these were the very people in charge of translating the entire N.W.T. Bible.
 All one has to do is cross reference any bible with any of the original ancient manuscripts, in order to know whether the bible he is reading is legitimate or not. The N.W.T has been cross referenced, and has failed miserably.

 This is not intended to be an attack on you personally my friend. However, it is the truth.

Bronzesnake

How embarrasing
 I wanted to edit this post or recall it, but did not know how.
I am new in the Lord and have read revelation. I also did bible study with 7th day adventists. (I am not a JW) I was baptized a catholic, and am Jewish. are you confused yet? I recall in my Bible study with my new church that rapture was a false teaching. I am learning a lot here and appreciate all of you for helping me grow in the Lord.Just to Clarify I belong to Jesus Christ and attend a bible believing church. I am hoping I grow fast in the Lord as we don't seem to have much time these days.
I will still let them lop off my head if it were to come down to it ;)

Amen my friend.

Bronzesnake

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040714/D83QQBP80.html

Chip Implanted in Mexico Judicial Workers

 Ya, I saw that on the news last night. The technology is definitely here, and ready to go. A few extra bits of information and we have a chip which replaces cash, has a GPS locator, and all important information, such as drivers license, medical, police records..etc.

Bronzesnake

Bronze: (I hesitate to use the acronym  ;D )

What about the verses from Daniel though? The fact that the Jewish people will be more than accomodating and accepting of the a/c, including allowing him to enter into places reserved only for Jews, would indicate that he couldn't be the "mahdi" the Islamists expect.

On my website I've got an article on Jewish eschatology...might be good to take a look at what the Jews themselves are expecting according to their tradition and teachings.

 Hello my friend. Thanks for not useing " the acronym"  ;)

 I assume you are referring to...
 
 Dan 11:24   He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do [that] which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: [yea], and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

That verse doesn't tell us that the Jews were accommodating toward him - as a matter of fact the verses prior to Dan 11:24 seems to tell us he was not honored by the Jews - and that was deceitful - and obtained the kingdom by "flatteries".

Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.  

 Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.  


 Dan 11:23 And after the league [made] with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.  


 Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.  


Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries:  but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].

 These verses make it clear that the Jews do not like him - and that he took the kingdom by deceitfull flatteries. "they shall pollute the sanctuary" "they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate"

 "The abomination that maketh desolate" is the beast...satan places his false christ (Allah?) in the temple.

 There are people who know this "god" is from satan, and try to convince others of the truth - and many of them shall be hunted down and murdered...

Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].  


 Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, [many] days.  


 Dan 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.


If these Jews really understood their bible, they would know that Jesus already came, and died on the cross 2,000 years ago. They would have read that He would be rejected by His own, and that should have made them wise - sadly, it didn't.

Mind you, the first Christians were Jews, who undoubtedly understood the prophecies about the Messiah. The Jews today do not recognize the New Testament, including Revelations - so they won't have a clue as to what's going to happen.

Bronzesnake


 

Guys,
Call me old fashioned (everyone else does) but I can’t go along with implanted chip technology as being “the mark”.  Sure; I guess it could eventually keep you from ‘buying or selling’, but I believe “the mark of the beast” will have more significance – that of visible loyalty.  An implanted chip is not a visible mark.  
I kind of look at it as almost a form of advertisement; you know how so many people now days freely use themselves as walking billboards – “Nike – Just do it!”, “Tommy Hillfinger” (or whatever) and “Old Navy” – there is obviously something “cool” about it.  I tell my daughter over and over that they should be paying her to advertise products rather than her spending $40 on a sweatshirt to advertise for them.  (What an advertising coup that has become!)
I believe the mark will be similar.  If you aren’t readily displaying the mark on your forehead or the back of your hand, the masses will have been brainwashed not to sell to you or buy from you because you aren’t “one of them”.  You aren’t “cool”.  You are a hate monger because you haven’t taken the “love and peace” mark.  
To me, “the mark” has to be an obvious ‘statement’ to everyone you pass on the street.
Thoughts?

 Hello J.N.

 I think there's good evidence that it's a chip as opposed to a visible mark.
Look at the following verses - notice that the mark is in their right hand, or in their foreheads, as opposed to on their hands or foreheads.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:  


Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 The fact that no man can buy or sell, alludes to the probability that there will be a cashless society at that time. Scanning at the grocery store has been here for several years now, how much of a stretch is it to conceive of an implanted micro chip in our hands being scanned instead of a plastic card?

 Just think of the possible selling points for this...
It would cut down on a load of crime. It would virtually wipe out any black market, as well as tax evasion. No more corner store robberies, no more bank robberies. No running from the law, because they could find a criminal at any time, instantly. Is your child missing? We know exactly where he/she is, and we know who is with her. No more losing your drivers license, or your social insurance number. No more convicted child molesters lying their way into jobs which involve being around children...etc.

Bronzesnake

Judgenot: Here in Holland at the Baja beachclub in Rotterdam it is
very cool and hip to have the subdermal chip and pay with it....

It is a sign in that you can pay with it; someone without the chip
cannot pay that way and is regarded as not (very) hip.

I will refrain to comment what else goes on in that and other
establishments, but the subdermalchip has landed here alright,
and is becoming more and more polular.

I recon its also the attitude and scene that comes with wearing
such a chip that makes it such a "success" here in Europe.

 Wow! Are you serious T.B.?
That is astonishing, thanks for sharing that.

Bronzesnake.

More info on:
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/vara/nieuwslicht/bb.20040612.asf
or
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/vara/nieuwslicht/bb.20040612.rm

skip to 7 minutes when you understand dutch,
9 minutes when you want to see the action.

The guy took the chip (note the 20 ppl or so in front of him)
and got 100 euro credit. Also note the hip/hype surrounding
this.  It's exactly where a few posts ago was talked about as
nessecary to make this technology a "succes" ....

Note: this is a relative new and flashy/poppy technology,
people want smaller chips with more features.
I expect that this will be delivered and the injection
moved to the wrist or hand, and soon here in Holland
accepted as a normal, regular thing.

Have a nice day.

I have a question for all of us that could make for some interesting discussion.

Personally, I don't believe an inplanted chip -in and of itself- is the mark of the beast.  But I do believe it is likely to  be the method in which the mark of the beast is implemented...which brings me to this question...

What is it about that mark, or implant if that is the case, that eliminates salvation potential?   Don't get me wrong here, I accept what God says in Revelation about those accepting the mark and worshipping the beast being destroyed, but Im just wondering how taking a chip or mark changes inner man???  From Revelation it seems that those who take the mark also worship the beast.   Will one have to denounce Christ in order to receive that mark?   It must be something on this order.   As we understand salvation right now, anyone can come to accept him.  Some devil worshipers of today have repented and come to Christ and found salvation.  So what is it about this mark in Revelation that changes that?   Its almost the opposite of the OSAS=once saved alway saved, as in OMAL=once marked always lost.   I have a theory about this, but I wanted to see what others think about it first.

Any thoughts?

Grace and Peace!

Months ago I had exactly the same question popping in my
head. Evidently this is a question that the HS pops up into
anyone able to grasp this truth or at least dig for it :)

When you find out how hard it actually is you also find out how
far we actually are from Christ....   As this sign is the sign that
scared whole communities for thousands of years and now that
we are here to live it we have to grasp for the reasons.

I believe the connection is in serving two masters and the soul,
in the blood resides the soul of a person. I suspect that the
unique identification of the paysystem is connected to the
blood; your dna as ID (to pay). The system connects mammon
to blood, done as a sign or a ritual.

 Excellent question.
I liken it to Adam and Eve being told by God that if they disobeyed Him, and specifically having to do with gaining the knowledge of good and evil/right and wrong. This was God's first warning to mankind, they were warned that on the day that if they disobeyed His command, they would surely die - and they disobeyed God anyway, and became mortal, and eventually did die.

 This set into motion God's plan for our salvation, which brings us to the end times, and the final warning to mankind, about disobeying God. God has given a final warning to those who would be tempted to receive the mark of the beast, only this time the punishment is an eternity in the big Easybake Oven!

 I do believe the implanted chip is the mark of the beast.
As I have pointed out before - the verse which describes the mark, identifies it being in the hand, or in the forehead.

 Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

 It just seems to fit in very nicely with an implanted chip, especially when the fact that no man could buy nor sell, unless he had "the mark" .

 Bronzesnake.

Some more of the chip being inplanted.

Baja Beach Club owner Conrad Chase wanted something unique to identify his VIP patrons. Other clubs had special jewelry or key chains, but he was looking for something special. After brainstorming, he came up with the idea to implant his VIP members with VeriChip's implantable microchip.

Alex has spoken many times over the years about how the making the chip "fun" and how by giving it an elite status soon an entire of young teenagers will be arguing with their parents demanding that they let them be implanted so that they can be in the "in" crowd. The Baja Beach Club and Chase have proved that the trend has started.

When I spoke to Mr. Chase this morning he told me that his implant launch had gotten the international media's attention. He himself was implanted at the media launch of the VIP implant system along with stars from the Spanish version of the TV Show, "Big Brother," (called "Grand Hermano" in Spain).

He also told me that he had been in touch with the VeriChip Corporation and that there were several new developments with their implant system including the Belgian subsidiary of firearm company, FN Herstal, which manufactures Browning and Smith and Wesson firearms, launching a implant-firearm system which would make a firearm functional only to the individual implanted with its corresponding microchip.

The Baja Beach Club is one of Barcelona's hottest night spots. The website describes its VIP area:

"We have a special zone at Baja beach Club where only VIPs are allowed, which has various exclusive services for these members.

We are the first discotheque in the world to offer the VIP VeriChip. Using an integrated (imbedded) microchip, our VIPS can identify themselves and pay for their food and drinks without the need for any kind of document (ID)."

As you explain it, the VeriChip is a technology consisting of the implantation of a digital chip under the skin. What was your motivation in introducing the use of this technology in a location like the Baja Beach Club.

Two reasons. The first is to follow the philosophy of originality that the Baja Beach Club has had from its origination. The second is to benefit from the latest most advanced technology.

The majority of night clubs aren't originals and only copy that which other people have created. In the province of Barcelona, we have for the 5 copy-cats of the Baja Beach Club.

The placement of this sub dermal chip is done with a syringe. Does this implantation method cause any troubles or side effects?

The chip is made of glass, totally innocuous and is implanted by a a single-use, sterilized syringe.

Conrad, do you think that the VeriChip will have a warm reception?

Yes, I know many people who want to be implanted. Actually, almost everybody has piercings, tattoos or silicone.

Do you have tattoos, piercings or silicone?

No, but I have worn piercings. Maybe one day I'll get a tattoo of the Baja Beach Club logo.

In routine daily life does (the chip) cause you any trouble? No metal detectors react to it?

(Laughs) Lots of people ask me this. It doesn't cause any problems, it doesn't pinch, it doesn't hurt...as far as being detectible by metal detectors...well, maybe, but any Texan button has 10 times more metal that the VeriChip.

Who implants the chip?

The implantation can be done by any person with an ATS title, and in The Baja Beach the implantation will be done by a medic.

How is it extracted?

It's a very simple process. As easy as extracting a small splinter.

What advantages will a baja Beach Club client that wants to be implanted have?

You won't have to carry a wallet. By simply passing by our reader, the Baja beach Club will know who you are and what your credit balance is. From the moment of their implantation they will also have free entry and access to the VIP area which we will formally open the 25th of March.

Is it free for your clients?

On the day of the launch, we are giving it for free to all of our VIPS. After that day, the cost of implantation will be 125 Euros.

If I implant myself will it only be valid at the Baja?

The objective of this technology is to bring an ID system to a global level that will destroy the need to carry ID documents and credit cards. The veriChip the we implant in the Baja will not only be for the Baja, but is also useful for whatever other enterprise that makes use of this technology.

Talk about leading astray................

Injectable chip opens door to "human bar code," anyone want to make a bet on the first 3 numbers?

Radio-frequency identification chips, which have found a home in applications ranging from toll road passes to smart retail shelves, may be close to taking up residence in the human body.

A Florida-based company has introduced a passive RFID chip that is compatible with human tissue, and the developer is proposing the chip for use on implantable pacemakers, defibrillators and artificial joints. The company, Applied Digital Solutions (Palm Beach, Fla.), also said that the chip could be injected through a syringe and used as a sort of "human bar code" in security applications.

Called the VeriChip, the device could open up a broad new segment for the $900 million-a-year RFID business, especially if society embraces the idea of using microchips for human identification. Applied Digital executives ultimately believe that the worldwide market for such implantable chips could reach $70 billion per year.

"The human market for this technology could be huge," said Keith Bolton, senior vice president of technology development at the company.

Futurists agree that the idea of using microchips inside the body could ultimately represent a large market opportunity, but they doubt whether this initial effort will have a significant effect on the RFID market.

"Are we going to see chips embedded in the human body? You bet we are," said Paul Saffo, a director of The Institute for the Future (Menlo Park, Calif.). "But it isn't going to happen overnight."

Pacemaker helper

Still, Applied Digital Solutions' executives are preparing to sell between $2.5 million and $5 million worth of VeriChips in 2002. The company initially plans to sell the chips in South America and Europe for use with pacemakers and defibrillators. In that application, it could be attached to the outside of the heart device or implanted nearby in the body.

Doing so would enable medical personnel to identify and monitor a patient's implanted devices merely by running a handheld scanner over the patient's chest.

"If you're a pacemaker user and you're in an accident and in shock, an ambulance attendant could scan the body and retrieve information about the device," Bolton said. "The chip could provide information about the pacemaker's settings, who its manufacturer is and whether you have any medical allergies."

The company said it is working with makers of implantable pacemakers and defibrillators to incorporate the chip during the equipment-manufacturing process.

Applied Digital Solutions is awaiting approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and does not expect to sell the chips in the United States until that approval is granted. The company's engineers said they expect approval later this year.

The announcement of the chip's availability created a media stir, however — not because of its potential use with pacemakers but because of its science-fiction-like potential application in human identification systems. Because the microchip and its antenna measure just 11.1 x 2.1 mm, Applied Digital Solutions said the assembly can be injected through a syringe and implanted in various locations within the body.

The tube-shaped VeriChip includes a memory that holds 128 characters of information, an electromagnetic coil for transmitting data and a tuning capacitor, all encapsulated within a silicone-and-glass enclosure. The passive RF unit, which operates at 125 kHz, is activated by moving a company-designed scanner within about a foot of the chip. Doing so excites the coil and "wakes up" the chip, enabling it to transmit data.

The chips are said to be similar to those that are already implanted in about a million dogs and cats nationwide to enable pet owners to identify and reclaim animals that have been temporarily lost. Applied Digital Solutions, which has made the pet-tracking chips for several years, says that the human chips differ mainly in the biocompatible coating that's used to keep the body from rejecting the implanted chip. The VeriChip is believed to be the first such chip designed for human identification.

Inspired by Sept. 11

In September, Applied Digital Solutions implanted its first human chip when a New Jersey surgeon, Richard Seelig, injected two of the chips into himself. He placed one chip in his left forearm and the other near the artificial hip in his right leg.

"He was motivated after he saw firefighters at the World Trade Center in September writing their Social Security numbers on their forearms with Magic Markers," Bolton said. "He thought that there had to be a more sophisticated way of doing an identification."

Applied Digital said Seelig, who serves as a medical consultant to the company, has now had the chips implanted in him for three months with no signs of rejection or infection.

Ordinarily, the company said, the chips would be implanted in a doctor's office under local anesthesia.

Applied Digital's executives said the ability to inject the chips opens up a variety of RFID applications in high-security situations, as well other types of human identification systems. The chips, they said, could be implanted in young children or in adults with Alzheimer's disease, to help officials identify people who can't identify themselves.

But the company is backing away from involuntary identification applications, such the tracking of prisoners or parolees. "We are advocating that this technology be totally voluntary," Bolton said.

Whether the technology will boost the market for RFID chips remains uncertain. Industry analysts had assumed that by now RFID would constitute a far larger market than its current, $900 million annual tally.

A consortium of major manufacturers has sought to push the technology as a replacement for bar codes in everyday products ranging from cereal boxes to shaving cream cans, but the cost hasn't dropped low enough to make that feasible. More recently, a group led by the European Central Bank began work on embedding RFID chips in the euro bank note, but the chip category has yet to find its killer app.

Applied Digital nonetheless has high hopes for its RFID technology. The publicly held company's stock did not fare well last year, plummeting from a high of $3 a share on Feb. 7 to 11 cents per share on Sept. 17. But its per-share stock price jumped to 50 cents from 38 cents after the company announced the VeriChip.

Eventual adoption

Analysts expressed confidence that the concept would eventually be adopted but were skeptical about its immediate future. "For this to work, you are going to need a standard that everyone agrees to," said Saffo of The Institute for the Future. "Then you have to convince people to buy reading devices that may be fairly costly."

Applied Digital's engineers would not say how much the chips or handheld readers might cost. The company's reader is a proprietary unit that is required for use with the VeriChip.

Some further suggested that the chip might be too large for easy adoption. Veterinarians who have implanted the chips in dogs and cats say that the techniques used in animals are unlikely to be embraced by humans. "The needle is huge," said Dean Christopoulos, a veterinarian in Des Plaines, Ill. "It's almost as thick as your pinky."

Some engineers suggested the technology might ultimately be scaled down, making the chip's acceptance more likely. At Alien Technology Corp. (Morgan Hill, Calif.), engineers have already discussed using that company's ultrasmall RFID chips in human applications. Alien, which uses a process known as fluidic self-assembly to create chips measuring 350 x 350 microns, has demonstrated its 900-MHz technology on everyday products such as soap and shampoo bottles. The coded information can be detected and read across distances measuring almost 3 feet.

"There are companies making RFID tags that are much smaller than a couple of millimeters," said Andy Holman, director of business development for Alien Technology.

Analysts also suggested that human identification technology would be more likely to be popularized when engineers are able to integrate more memory and other features, such as global-positioning satellite units and induction-based power-recharging techniques. GPS might help find lost children and adults, they said, while larger memories would enable doctors to store vital patient information.

The concept "goes all the way back to the 1960s," said Jerry Krasner, vice president of market intelligence for American Technology International Inc.'s Embedded Forecasters Group. "What's new is the ability to store a lot of data.

"As soon as you can do that, you'll see more applications for this type of technology," he said.

It's no bigger than a grain of rice…or maybe a rice krispie. It is inserted subcutaneously and activated by the sweep of a special laser wand. Welcome to America in the age of the permanent "war on terrorism" where there's always someone coming up with a better idea to diminish civil liberties. The VeriChip implant comes your way courtesy of Applied Digital Systems.
I was visiting some old friends the other afternoon when I was given a tip: Travis told me to be on the lookout for a chip that would contain an individual's personal data and once implanted, it would be capable of tracking their physical location. Now, I wasn't born yesterday; while this thing sounded plausible I figured he'd read about it in some futuristic scientific journal.

Later, I went home, switched on the computer and checked out The Oread Daily, one of my favorite reads. Lo and behold, editor Randy Gould featured a story headlined "Verchip: Don't Leave Home Without One," which described in detail a new implantable device coming down the pike at breakneck speed.

According to several other published reports, the Palm Beach, Florida chipmaker, Applied Digital Solutions, Inc., announced that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) found that the VeriChip was not a regulated medical device: This clears the way for the company to begin marketing, sales and distribution of VeriChip in the United States within the next few months.

"If they put medical records in, we would be concerned about the use," the FDA's medical device chief Dr. David Feigal was quoted in the Washington Post. Feigal also made it clear that the agency could step in at that point. "If someone is unconscious in an emergency room and implanted medical records are outdated, that could be more dangerous than if doctors had no information." Feigal urged companies considering health-related implants to consult with the FDA.

According to the Oread Daily, "each VeriChip is composed of FDA-accepted materials and contains a unique verification number. That number is captured by briefly passing a proprietary, external scanner over the VeriChip. A small amount of radio frequency energy passes through the skin energizing the dormant VeriChip, which then emits a radio frequency signal transmitting the verification number."

Chipping in for the 'war on terrorism'

On its website Applied Digital Systems describes how the VeriChip addresses current security concerns: "Personal identity verification technology has gained considerable interest recently. A great deal of focus has been trained on so-called 'biometric' technologies which identify individuals by their unique biological or physical characteristics, such as fingerprints, voiceprints, retina characteristics, and face recognition points. VeriChip, by contrast, relies on imbedded, tamper-proof, microchip technology, which allows for non-invasive access to identification, medical and other critical data. Use of advanced VeriChip technology means that the threat of theft, loss, duplication or counterfeiting of data is substantially diminished or eliminated. Specific application areas include: enhancement of present forms of identification, various law enforcement and defense uses and search and rescue."

According to a Wired.com report, "In South America, the device has been bundled with a GPS-unit and sold to potential kidnapping victims." For now, the company is claiming that the VeriChip's most immediate use will be for people with certain medical conditions, and for workers in need of top security clearance. The information that the chip is capable of carrying is boundless.

The VeriChip is expected to sell for about $200. The company hasn't decided yet if it will sell or distribute the 125-KHz chip scanner to hospitals at no cost. The scanner is expected to cost between $1,000 and $3,000.

Bar codes 'r' us

Applied Digital Solutions, Inc., established in 1993, describes itself as "an advanced digital technology development company that focuses on a range of early warning alert, miniaturized power sources and security monitoring systems combined with the comprehensive data management services required to support them. Through its Advanced Wireless unit, the Company specializes in security-related data collection, value-added data intelligence and complex data delivery systems for a wide variety of end users including commercial operations, government agencies and consumers."

The post-9/11 political climate makes the use of something like the VeriChip more acceptable. The Oread Daily's Gould is concerned that the device "could also be used to keep track of dissidents and other such troublemakers."

Others are raising questions about the VeriChip. The Los Angeles Times reported that Applied Digital officials say that while implantable chips have been denounced by those who object on religious and other grounds, those objections have decreased in the wake of 9/11. As Keith Bolton, the company's chief technology officer, put it, 'When people are trying to regain their peace of mind, they're open to new approaches.'"

In a late-March article posted at WorldNetDaily, a conservative online news site, reporter Sherrie Gossett raised more questions about the future of implantable chips. Titled "'Digital Angel' lands in China: Will implantable tracking chips be used by totalitarian government?" Gossett's article claims the "manufacturer and marketer of high-tech, implantable devices for tracking human beings has opened a research and development facility in Shen Zhen, a special economic zone near Hong Kong, hoping to cash in on vast markets in China and the Far East."

'Mark of the beast'

Last year, Gossett writes, Digital Angel "deflected criticism from privacy advocates and Christians concerned over biblical prophesy by removing all references to human implantation from its website and literature, only to re-introduce human implantation -- with a product called VeriChip - after Sept. 11, due to the nation's new preoccupation with security."

According to AgapePress, a Christian daily news service, "Many Bible prophecy watchers are keeping a close eye on this development. It appears to be a direct correlation to the teaching in Revelation about the mark that Anti-Christ will require all to have during the tribulation period."

What does this mean for some Christians? Tom Horn, editor of Raiders News Update, explains that implantable devices could usher in an "antiChrist system" called the "New World Order, under which national boundaries dissolve, and ethnic groups, ideologies, religions, and economics from around the world, orchestrate a single and dominant sovereignty." This one-world government will destroy or imprison those who do not go along with it. "The Antichrist's widespread power will be derived at the expense of individual human liberties."

Horn claims Nelson Rockefeller first issued a call for a "New World Order". Horn: "Developers of biometric implant chips employ similar language in announcing compatible global technologies, and many Americans consider electronically marking humans or implanting a series of digital equations under the skin to be the natural progress of advancing and necessary technologies."

Horn says that implantable microchips manufacturers "claim the procedure will be voluntary at first." Elaine M. Ramish of the Franklin Pierce Law Center is concerned about a national identification system via microchip implants that "could be achieved in two stages: Upon introduction as a voluntary system, the microchip implantation will appear to be palatable. After there is a familiarity with the procedure and a knowledge of its benefits, implantation would be mandatory."

Some more BAD news...........
http://www.av1611.org/666/patent1.html

Patent 5,878,155 was issued to Houston inventor Thomas W. Heeter described as a "Method for verifying human identity during electronic sale transactions".

Heeter's patent "abstract" reads:

"A method is presented for facilitating sales transactions by electronic media. A bar code or a design is tattooed on an individual. Before the sales transaction can be consummated, the tattoo is scanned with a scanner. Characteristics about the scanned tattoo are compared to characteristics about other tattoos stored on a computer database in order to verify the identity of the buyer. Once verified, the seller may be authorized to debit the buyer's electronic bank account in order to consummate the transaction. The seller's electronic bank account may be similarly updated."

Heeter's invention is aimed toward the booming world of Internet E-commerce. In the very near future, many products will be purchased E-commerce via the Internet. WorldNet Daily writes, ". . . Internet e-commerce figures spiraling upward, and the European market expected to surpass the U.S. online community in a couple of years, potential sales online have been projected to reach nearly $1 trillion by 2003."

And the ONE major obstacle to the full-implementation of the E-commerce world is security. Currently, most people will not purchase over the Internet for ONE reason - SECURITY. But if somehow, someway, someone could "secure" the E-commerce transaction "bodily" to the purchaser - 100% security.

Make no mistake about - 666 is coming!!!!

Some more BAD news...........
http://www.av1611.org/666/patent1.html

Thats Good News to me LOOKING UP

Make no mistake about - 666 is coming!!!!

Amen!!!!!


<:)))><

Thats what I was thinking too.

Luk 21:28  And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Just another reminder of how near we are the return the Christ!

Grace and Peace!

Okay, I will NOT have anyone come close to my body with one of those chips.  I already set metal detectors off at airports and court rooms. I have metal holding my chest bones together, and more than likley metal rods in my back where they removed my Sternum bone.

I do NOT want anything else in my body EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,  \o/

2Tim:

"what is it about the chip...........?"

Simply, the conscious making of a choice to serve the master of this world INSTEAD of God....and this is done AFTER a number of judgments that are easily discernable (by reasoning people) to be judgments from God. Couple that with the number of people that will be being saved during the trib, and the obvious implications of continuing evangelism to the unbelievers, and you have the "unpardonable sin".....final and absolute rejection of God.


Rather than some of the technology we are seeing come to pass, or increase of knowledge, or wars, or rumors of wars (do not worry....this is just the beginning of sorrows....), we need only look to the condition of the Church today (denoms) who are flaunting their "intelligence and wisdom" in changing the immutable Word of God into whatever they want it to say. In conjunction with that, the numbers of UNGODLY televangelists doing their best imitation of Balaam (although they actually look more like Balaam's ass).

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


along with
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.

Benny Hinn disagrees and had stated on TBN Mar.29, 2000

"Ladies and gentleman, Jesus is shaking the world! Now something else is happening that is to me awesome! Absolutely awesome! The Lord is physically appearing in the Muslim world. I'm telling you, Paul, I am hearing it now more and more and more. Since we preachers cannot go there, Jesus is - just going there Himself. Since we preachers are not permitted to go in, He is just showing up Himself. You know the Scriptures says clearly that the Lord did appear, did He not? Ah for forty days, isn't that right? And the Scriptures says he, he, he even, he even appeared to Paul…. He's doing the same thing today in the Muslim world. He's appearing, hear this, He is appearing to Muslims, saying I am Jesus of Nazareth! And they're coming to know the Lord!" (TBN, Praise the Lord Mar.29, 2000)


Note that in Mat. 24, Jesus began his dissertation with a warning against deception, and He ended it the same way.

Amen! very good points.


I think this has been the case since early Church days.  Galatia is one example, the confusion brough to Thessalonica is another, but I agree its happening ever so much in our day as well.



I will leave this one for another thread so as not to sidetrack this one.   ;)


I had not heard this before, although I have heard Mr Hinn had been saying some bizzare things.  But then again, I don't watch too much TBN.

Grace and Peace!

As if we needed to see more.....

Schoolchildren to be RFID-chipped (http://networks.silicon.com/lans/0,39024663,39122042,00.htm)


RFID chips headed for hospitals? (http://hardware.silicon.com/storage/0,39024649,39122659,00.htm)


44,000 prison inmates to be RFID-chipped (http://networks.silicon.com/lans/0,39024663,39122811,00.htm)


This will become more and more prevalent as the day approaches.   Deffinately a wake up call for those who may not be aware as to whats going on in our world.

1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Not that anyone here isn't, but if so, there is no better time take inventory of the heart!  Self included!  

Indications are, that time is short.   I can almost picture  Jesus is sitting on the edge of the throne waiting for the father to say, lets go get em Son!

Grace and Peace!

go get em Son

yeeessssssss!

 :D

'I've got a biometric ID card'
By Tom Geoghegan
BBC News Online

Biometric testing of face, eye and fingerprints could soon be used on every resident of the UK to create compulsory identity cards. BBC News Online's Tom Geoghegan volunteered for a pilot scheme and looked, unblinking, into the future.
As I was led up to the first floor of the UK Passport Office in London's Victoria, the butterflies I used to get at the dentist began to flutter.
But as it turned out, the photo booth we passed on the way would have provided a more invasive exercise.
The simple 15-minute process to get my own identity card simulates what probably lies ahead for everyone.
Biometric tests are likely to be introduced for all new driving licences and passports from 2007. They could become compulsory six years later.
Explaining the purpose of the six-month pilot schemes being held across the UK, the Home Office's Peter Wilson said: "This isn't a test of the technology - that's likely to change in the future as things move on - it's the process.
"We're looking for customer reactions and perceptions, and any particular difficulties."
I was greeted in a reception area for enrolment, which consisted of filling out a form with basic information about myself such as gender, age, postcode and ethnic background.
Then I gave the form and my name to operator Rachel Davies, who inputted the information at a computer.
I was ushered into a room and directed to sit in a sophisticated-looking booth, facing a hi-tech camera. No going back now.
The first test is the facial recognition, which is like a prolonged photograph without the flash.
Big Brother
No cheesy grins will be allowed, because the machine is scanning the measurements of your face and "doesn't like teeth".

BIOMETRIC PILOT SCHEMES
Target of 10,000 volunteers
No figures yet, but more than 16,000 have shown an interest
All details are destroyed and feedback anonymous
Set in London, Glasgow and Leicester, plus a mobile facility travelling the UK
Aims to identify any practical difficulties and give a cost projection of full scheme
Current cost predicted £1.3bn to £3.1bn ..... what ever this is, I don't know.

The iris scan required more concentration because I had to stare hypnotically at two ellipses in the camera, while the machine verbally directed me.
"Come closer," says a Big Brother-like voice, instructing me to shuffle my seat forward while keeping my eyes fixed on the shapes.
After about 60 seconds, the machine indicated the scanning was complete.
No messy carbon required for the fingerprints. Instead I had to put each hand's four fingers, then the thumb, on a glass scanner.
My prints appeared on a computer screen and within minutes were compared against one million others which, for the sake of the pilot scheme, had been imported from the US.

 ID CARDS TIMETABLE
Nov 2003: Draft Bill published
Apr 2004: Pilot schemes begin
Autumn 2004: White Paper in Parliament
2005: Facial biometrics used on passports (scanned from passport photograph)
2007: New passports and driving licences to require biometrics, separate ID cards optional
2013: Parliament to vote on making it compulsory for all to have some form of biometric ID

With all three tests completed, I had to give a copy of my signature which they stored electronically.
I filled out a feedback form about my experience and then the card was ready and in my hands.
It's strange to think that the identity card's small microchip contains some personal information and my biometrics.
But I don't feel psychologically invaded or like an android, as I thought I might.
Another simple fingerprint test verifies that I match the card and that's it, over.
If the government gets its way, the information on the chip would also be stored on a national identity register, accessible to the police, government departments, the Inland Revenue, immigration and intelligence services.
No wonder as I leave, a member of staff jokes: "We'll be tracking you."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/3556720.stm

 Live and Let Die DreamWeaver!!!

Just jokin of course, this is a hot topic.

Here's a wee bit of info on a British fella, who had two implants, and I'll give a link to his site so you can read what's going on in the world of Cybernetics and implants...

 Kevin Warwick is Professor of Cybernetics at the University of Reading, UK. In 1998 he shocked the international scientific community by having a silicon  chip transponder surgically implanted in his left arm. A series of further  implant experiments have taken place in which Kevin’s nervous system was linked to a computer...

 http://www.kevinwarwick.com/ (http://www.kevinwarwick.com/)

Bronzesnake

A quote from the site....

Question:In your article for "Wired", you said "I was born human, but it was an accident of fate". Do you think humanity must change itself because it has the power to?

Answer: Humanity can change itself but hopefully it will be an individual choice. Those who want to stay human can and those who want to evolve into something much more powerful with greater capabilities can. There is no way I want to stay a mere human.


Speachless!   Just one more indication of how far man will go when he is focused on himself and not God.  

On a humorous note, If he downloads any Microsoft updates, he's going to have trouble with all the security flaws in his brain.   ;D   Dude, you are a dell!  lol

Scarry stuff.


Grace and Peace!

Virus attacks were actually a concern when he was implanted with the first of the two chips. This first implant wasn't linked to his nervous system, and was used for rudamentary tasks, suchas, opening doors, with a voice which greeted him, and other electronics operations.

Bronzesnake

I guess I have waited long enough.  Evengelists and BRNZ have given their answers, which BTW I agree with both.

Here is what I think is plainly stated in scripture.


Speaking about the false prophet here....

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

This beast exercises all the power of the first beast. A second AC in ability and power if you will.  Notice the "causeth to worship", sounding very much like the causeth to take the mark later on...as in force to take the mark/force to worship? Also sounds like some sort of miracle...deadly wound was healed of the first beast.


Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


Here again, he deceives men by miracles which he can perform in "sight" of the beast. Calling fire down from heaven, etc....And commands them to build an image to the beast which was wounded by the sword, and yet lived. This seems like all out deception by miracles.  Reminds me of the pharisee's asking Christ for visual signs that he was the Christ.   False prophet performing them, yet he insist everyone worship the first beast and his image.


Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Freaky stuff!   More miracles...now the image lives, both speaking and causing death to those who do not worship it.  Imagine the awe and fear of witnessing such a thing.


Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


And finally, the mark. IMO, this is to determine who has yet to worship and pay homage to the image of the beast. If you don't worship, your ability to buy and sell expires. Clearly an attempt to weed out unbelievers of the beast. Namely, christians....who know they cannot worship anyone but God himself.


Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


Everyone always focuses on this verse. This number identifies the beast, as being the number of a man.  Christians know all too well that we cannot worship anyone or anything but God. False Worship is coerced by miracles, threat of death, which many no doubt will fall headlong into by seeming proof and fear, and is finally policed by means of a mark that forbids buying and selling unless one has proof of worship. Ever heard of POP? Proof of purchase? How about POW = proof of worship.


Just my take on how scrpture lays it out. I don't believe taking the mark will be a casual thing. It seems from these verses, that worship of the beast is actually what is saught, and the mark is just to cleverly ID those who have, and have not yet worshipped. We are talking about all out rejection of the word of God, Jesus Christ, by men worshiping an image of a man. All sold by visual miracles, signs and wonders.  No faith required!  Just a stamp of POW



Thoughts?

I don't think microchip inplants are the mark of the beast. Although I do not like the idea at all for many obviuos resons.

As someone said in a post way back in page 2 or 3 of this thread, I take the Bible very literally.

Having microchip inplants as the mark of the beast is a lot like the people that think the locust described in Revelations are actually Military helicopters.



With all the "miracles" and such, I just can't see it as being a technology thing.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


With all those things being seen by everyone, none will be able to deny a spiritual existance anymore. Therefor I think that the mark will be of a much different nature than inplants. My guess is that it will possibey be something done by the continuing "miracles" of the beast. Something that will continue to WOW the people. Because you know that people forget one or two miracles, it happened so many times in the Bible.

It will definitly be something that everyone will be able to see. Something that everyone can look at with just a glance and say "he is a believer" or "he is not one of us".

I will in no way volunteer to have a chip inplanted in any part of my body. But i just don't think that scripture supports the mark of the beast as being a microchip inplant.

It will happen just as the Bible says that it will. No more, no less.

Many people don't think it's the mark. The more convenient the chip gets, and the closer we get to a time when a chip is necessary to continue living a normal, unpersecuted life, the more people who previously thought the chip to be the mark will change their opinion, foolishly convincing themselves "it couldn't possibly be the mark, the rapture hasn't happened yet."
If you think you can't live without money, it has ceased being a tool and has become your master. Those people who think they can't live without money will feel forced to take it. Jesus said that you can't serve both God and money. The "mark" would be proof that the master you serve is money.
2nd Timothy, please tell me you believe this to be in reference to a post-trib rapture. If you think it's in reference to a pre-trib rapture it is blatantly out of context.

Again, the pre-trib rapture myth will lead many to eternal hell, all because a couple of authors found money to be more important than truth. Since so many people falsly believe that the mark of the beast comes AFTER the rapture, people will think that accepting a chip implant will be ok, especially since it will make life so much easier.
"They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Tim 4:4)
The pre-trib rapture myth was made up a couple hundred years ago, but has only become popular over the past 15 years.

JitC quote...



 I think you're seriously overstating the consequences when you say..."the pre-trib rapture myth will lead many to eternal hell, all because a couple of authors found money to be more important than truth"

 First of all - Many "authors" have written on pre and post Tribulation. It doesn't matter when we believe the rapture happens. The fact of the matter is, that it will happen when God wants it to happen, and saved Christians will be raptured at that time. Christians know about the mark of the beast, so I seriously doubt any will accept it regardless of when the rapture occurs.

 Secondly - Pre-Trib Rapture was taught as far back as the fifth century - if you read through the Pre-Trib Rapture threads on this forum, you will find all the details on this topic. I submit that Pre-Trib Rapture goes back even further...It is in your Bible! ;) Also, many prophecies from the Bible could not be understood until there proper time.

Finally - I don't think it's wise to call any of the Rapture theories "myth" there is very strong evidence in our Bible which supports both Pre and post Trib Raptures, and the topic has been argued and debated thoroughly on this forum. I happen to believe the Pre-Trib Rapture fits the best with Biblical evidence, and I have stated my evidence and beliefs on the topic on this forum, as have others. Just have a look at the Rapture topic threads on this forum and you will find plenty on the subject. I find no good reason to rehash it all every time a "newbie" ( that's not intended as any kind of insult, or derogatory term - we were all newbies at one time) arrives and attempts to start the debate all over again. The topic is thoroughly covered here... have a look.

Bronzesnake

Well said.

I’m not interested right now to have a debate about whether the rapture is pre-trib or post-trib. What I am concerned about is what deception can lead to for those whose faith isn’t very strong, and whose understanding isn’t great.

For people whose faith is strong, and whose understanding is great, it doesn’t seem that it would matter much if one believes or does not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture. For those of us with a relatively strong faith and understanding, we could believe in the pre-trib rapture theory, and not be at risk of backsliding in the event we are proven wrong about the theory. But it should not be overlooked that people who are new to the faith often take all of what they are taught as fact, because they are not yet able to discern between definite truth and mere theory. Between the important things, and the not so important. Being that they are new to the faith, they understandably don’t know where to draw the line. Many who are new to the faith don’t see the pre-trib rapture as a theory, but as fact. If the rapture doesn’t happen before the tribulation, at some point these people will realize some of what they were taught was wrong. It won’t be just a simple realization for them. It can be very distressing to realize what you had believed, is now proven to be untrue. These people, like the rest of us, will have to decide to either take the mark or not. Taking the mark will allow them to buy food, and keep their family from starving. In their minds, they understandably might see that if what they were taught about the rapture was wrong, then maybe what they were taught about taking the mark was wrong too. I think it should be obvious that teaching people that the pre-trib rapture is fact rather than theory is a very dangerous teaching. It’s obvious to me that such teachers are willing to gamble with other’s salvation. All it would take to avoid being at fault for such a gamble would be to tell the students that it is only a theory. That it may or may not be true. But many people have too much pride to admit that what they believe to be true may not be.

I also think it’s wrong to blatantly take things out of context. For some pre-trib rapture proof-texts it is understandable, because it isn’t obvious whether or not it’s in reference to a pre- or post-trib rapture. But often people take things out of context that are obviously in reference to something that happens after the tribulation. It is obvious that people who do such things care little about truth.

Britian To Start Biometric Testing For ID Cards

Britain to Start Biometric Tests for National I.D. Card Plan
By Gary Lane Chief International Correspondent

If the six-month trial is successful, the British government says it will use the technology to introduce biometric passports by mid-2005.

The British government is gearing up for tests for a new national I.D. card plan. The government will begin testing biometrics technology on 10,000 citizen volunteers starting in January.

Each volunteer will be given a smart card that contains an electronic chip imbedded with personal information. Facial, iris and fingerprint recognition technology will be used in a database to confirm the identities of the volunteers.

If the six-month trial is successful, the British government says it will use the technology to introduce biometric passports by mid-2005. Biometric driver's licenses would also be introduced. Both uses would pave the way for a compulsory national identity card system.

The argument is that cutting-edge technology is needed and should be utilized to track would-be terrorists, prevent abuse of the immigration system, protect British citizens against identity theft, and help crack down on organized crime.

Civil libertarians fear biometrics is an invasion of privacy rights. No legal action to stop the test trials is planned against the British government at this time.

Moving right along. First the Mexico Judicial workers, and now Britain getting their chip together for testing.

August 4, 2004
by Jo Best

One German start-up has created an alternative to RFID that is likely to get under consumers' skin.

Ident Technologies has dreamt up Skinplex - which could be used in all the same ways as RFID and Bluetooth - but uses a different transmitter: human skin.

Like RFID, Skinplex works by reading a unique identifier remotely using an electromagnetic signal, normally between a microchip and a reader. Unlike RFID, however, Skinplex uses the skin to transmit the signal and an identifier carried on a person. The signal is transmitted when the carrier touches the receiver.

The Skinplex system can also be worked from a distance of 50cm, transmitting through the ether.

One possible use for the technology the company is touting is for unlocking car doors remotely. With the car owner carrying his own unique code, the idea is Skinplex becomes an anti-theft device, with only the car owner being able to get in the car without setting off an alarm.

With RFID set to become a billion-dollar market by 2010, the idea of keeping the costs down might tempt some the way of Skinplex.

Some hospitals are even talking about implanting staff and patients with RFID technology, potentially opening up a huge market for humans to carry RFID chips or Skinplex identifiers.

However, last month, Microsoft patented a way of turning your skin into a power conduit and data bus. IBM also jumped on the bandwagon some years ago - showing off a way of electronically sharing business cards when two people shake hands.

http://networks.silicon.com/lans/0,...39122871,00.htm
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Old 19th August 2004, 12:29 PM
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Or how about this one?





August 2, 2004
by Jo Best

One US state reckons it's cracked how to keep track of all of its 44,000 prison inmates - RFID-chip them.

The Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction (ODRH) has approved a $415,000 contract to trial the tracking technology with Alanco Technologies.

The pilot project will run at the Ross Correctional Facility in Chillicothe, Ohio. If all goes well, the technology could be rolled out to all of the state's inmates in 33 separate facilities. Inmates will wear "wristwatch-sized" transmitters that can detect if prisoners have been trying to remove them and send an alert to prison computers.

Staff will also wear the technology on their belts so they can be tracked for security purposes. Warders can activate an alarm themselves but the alert will also be sent if the transmitter is forcibly removed or the warder is knocked down.

Alanco claims system can pinpoint the location of staff and prisoners in real-time and track them within the confines of a prison.

The Ross project is not the first such rollout of tracking chips in US prisons. Facilities in Michigan, California and Illinois already employ the technology and Robert R. Kauffman, Alanco CEO, said he expects three new states to sign up to use RFID technology.

One US state reckons it's cracked how to keep track of all of its 44,000 prison inmates - RFID-chip them.

The Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction (ODRH) has approved a $415,000 contract to trial the tracking technology with Alanco Technologies.

The pilot project will run at the Ross Correctional Facility in Chillicothe, Ohio. If all goes well, the technology could be rolled out to all of the state's inmates in 33 separate facilities. Inmates will wear "wristwatch-sized" transmitters that can detect if prisoners have been trying to remove them and send an alert to prison computers.

Staff will also wear the technology on their belts so they can be tracked for security purposes. Warders can activate an alarm themselves but the alert will also be sent if the transmitter is forcibly removed or the warder is knocked down.

Alanco claims system can pinpoint the location of staff and prisoners in real-time and track them within the confines of a prison.

The Ross project is not the first such rollout of tracking chips in US prisons. Facilities in Michigan, California and Illinois already employ the technology and Robert R. Kauffman, Alanco CEO, said he expects three new states to sign up to use RFID technology.

I have been holding my tongue on this for a few days now, because I felt as if you were attempting to gode me into another debate.   From the snipits I quoted here I think its clear I was right.   I never made mention of pre, mid or post rapture and you have been hammering away at a point I never made.    ???

Doesn't matter which one happens (pre mid or post)  Their all close!   ;)  8)

Grace and Peace!

JitC quote...

 
 Jesus tells us that He will come for those who are His. Do you think He was lying when He said that? It doesn't matter a hoot when you, or I, or anyone else believes the Rapture will take place. The fact of the matter is that it will take place - and those who are saved, true believers - whether they are new, or veteren Christians - will be saved. PERIOD.

Jesus didn't tell us that whosoever understands the entire Bible will be saved...He said...Jhn 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Bronzesnake

Of course not.
I agree that it doesn't matter as far as who is saved. But when millions of people who are new to Christianity are told the pre-trib theory is fact, the stage is set for many to be lead the wrong way if the rapture doesn't happen when they think it's supposed to.
I never implied that salvation is based on belief in a certain doctrine. What I was trying to say is that belief in false doctrine can set the stage for spiritual disaster.

2nd Timothy, the first post to you was asking if that verse was in reference to a pre-trib rapture. I was hoping it wasn't, because if it was then it was blatantly taken out of context. I don't know that it was though, that's why I asked. But as far as the posts after that, talking about people blatantly taking things out of context to prove a pre-trib rapture, I was actually not thinking of your post at all. I was thinking about the authors of the Left Behind series, and a pastor at a church I went to. The three of them teach things to people, and it sounds to make so much sense. But if you look it up in the bible, you find that what was said is blatantly out of context. Obviously these people, who know better, were aware that it's out of context. But it serves their purpose, so they are willing to ignore truth (especially since newbies to Christianity won't know better). It's sad. But I honestly wasn't referring to you in those posts. I'm sorry if it seemed that way.

Perhaps I did read more into it than you meant....my appologies.  Just out of curriousity....what do you interpret this verse to mean?

Luk 21:28  And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


Grace and Peace!

Luke 21:25-28:
"And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations …”
These are the things that are also mentioned in revelation, during the tribulation.

“…men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming…”
People will know that they are in the seven years of tribulation, and that can be stressful enough to cause this. Also, this wouldn’t be before the tribulation, because we wouldn’t yet know that “those things which are coming” would be so imminent.

“…Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory…”
This is how Jesus will be coming during his second coming. Even the writers of “Left Behind” acknowledge that Jesus’ second coming, after the tribulation, will be in the sky.

“…Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
When what “things begin to happen”? If it’s during the tribulation, there will be plenty of things. But before the tribulation, there isn’t anything mentioned that even resembles the things just mentioned.

Anyway, I think that by me saying it’s “blatantly clear” that Luke 21:28 was not in reference to a pre-trib rapture was a bit exaggerated. I apologize. I do think it’s clear, but maybe I should have left out “blatantly”.

My problem with the pre-trib rapture theory isn’t that I believe it’s incorrect (which I do). It’s that I believe it is a dangerous theory to teach people as fact. For somebody with a strong faith, it might be ok to discuss it as though it’s fact. But with people who are new to the faith, if they learn it to be fact, and the tribulation comes soon without the rapture, they will be angry, confused, spiritually and emotionally unstable, etc. I think that if people are to teach new believers about the pre-trib rapture theory, then it should be taught as theory. Not fact. I think it’s gambling with their spirituality by teaching something to be a fact, that may very well turn out wrong.

If the rapture happens before the tribulation, then it’s no big deal. But if it happens after, many people will feel so mislead that they won’t know whom to trust.

JitC quote...
 


 That's a fair assertion I guess. However, I don't believe it would cause any saved Christians to lose their salvation - I can't see how it could. Do you believe that - knowing the warnings from Revelations - they will accept the mark of the beast because the Rapture didn't happen when they thought it would?

and what about this scenario...

 The Rapture occurs, and is in fact pre-trib, however, many "part time, or misinformed Christians" miss it. Will they believe the Rapture hasn't happened "yet" and lose hope when it doesn't appear to be coming at all?
 The Bible doesn't tell us if the people "left behind" will know a Rapture even happened. How will the governments of the world explain all the missing people? Will some catastrophe occur, which would lead the world believing there was some kind of mass death toll? Will God simply wipe out all memory of the Raptured saints from the people left behind? There must be some kind of "logical" explanation, otherwise the world's remaining population would know without any doubt that the Bible is true - that God is real - and He does what He says He's going to do. How could anyone be so stupid to accept satan and his mark, and doom themselves for eternity if they knew the Bible was true?...We just don't know...we can't answer those questions without theorizing.

I still believe that a pre-trib Rapture fits in best with the scriptures - have a look at the thread started by "Kraken" on this topic - I debated him right off this forum with strong scriptural backing for the pre-trib Rapture.

 Having said that - I do accept the possibility that I may be wrong. It is our duty to explain this to new Christians regardless of when we believe the Rapture will occur. Once we understand the possibilities, we will be ready regardless of when the Rapture occurs. This isn't the only doctrine that could cause problems JitC.That's why all Christians must attend a strong Bible believing Church where these things can be taught by a competent pastor and fully explained. A "new" Christian that receives his/her teaching from friends or off of forums will have continuous problems, and find much confusion in attempting to sort out the - cults - nutbars - and the liberals, from the truth.


Bronzesnake

Doesn't Scripture say "No man knows the hour"? Jesus says "repent, If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev.3:3).
Will Jesus come in secret to resurrect the elect?
No, every eye will see him and every ear will hear him(Matthew24:27;Luke 21:27; Rev.1:7; 14:14;1 Thes. 4:16;1 Corinthians 15:52; Matthew: 24:31; Rev. 11:15)
When did Christ say he was coming to rapture his people? "Immediately after the tribulation..." (Matthew 24:29-31) What is another name for rapture? "First resurrection" is the bible word, and that happens immediately after the tribulation at the last trump and only for the elect (Rev. 20:5,6; Matthew 24:30-31) On the last day(John 6:39,40,44,54; John 11:24) The dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52) The two witnesses are dead in Christ, and they will be raised  at the time of the last trump.
Since the first resurrection occurs after the tribulation, how can it be possible that the saints be raptured before the tribulation? Who are the elect in the first resurrection of Revelation 20:5?
All the believers that died from the old testement until the new. After the dead rise, the elect that remain on the earth are caught up also in the air. That is the first resurrection, the only one for the elect. It is interesting to note that the very verse that a great many in the church hold as the pre-tribulation rapture,(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17), is the very verse that speaks of the resurrection of all believers which the tribulation saints are part of in (Revelation 20:1-4)
  This is in Part, of a study I have been doing on the subject of Pre-Trib .

Jesusinme,

Its difficult at times to seperate which aspect of Christ coming is being spoken of in scripture.   If I could just address a few points you made.


A few things of interest in Revelation 20:4.  First, only martyrs are mentioned as being ressurected.  Specifically, I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus.   Also of interest is the group that takes their place on thrones, and judgment is given to them.   Note that the souls are still souls when that happens.   How can we have living already fulfilling their judgment duties before the dead have risen, when we know that the dead in Christ shall rise first?   The rapture is a hope for the living, not the dead.   Previously in Chapter 19, Christ is seen returning with the armies, which were in heaven, dressed in white linen.   Some interesting clues that scripture gives us.  Also, as you said, no man knows the day nor the hour, yet if it were to happen at the end, we could calculate the days till the end from the abomination of desolation where Daniel and Revelation give us exact days in number.   Also, what about the saints who were ressurected in Mat 27:52?   Rev 20:5 will complete the first fruits of the ressurection.


There are many many many evidences in scripture that suggest a pre-trib rapture.   Its fair to say, that its not clear when it will happen.   But important that we be ready for it to happen at any time, and trust in the Lord to take care of his own timing.  But it sure is fun to search through scriptures for clues the God has given us though, aint it?   I love talking about the Rapture.

Grace and Peace!

Many people won't believe it to be the Mark. Most will practically choose to believe (though subconsciously) it's not the Mark, because the Mark will seem so necessary to live. Honestly, how many people, who once said the sinner's prayer, will have the guts to face starvation, or willingly be sentenced to die instead of taking up some convenient theory that “it really isn't the Mark”? Yes, I do believe many people who were taught the pre-trib rapture to be fact, will end up taking the Mark partially because of that teaching.

Though that’s not to say they will be the only “Christians” to take the Mark.
I’m not quite sure what you’re saying. What I think I understand of your scenario is that if the rapture is pre-trib, and people who called themselves Christians, but weren’t really, and never heard of the rapture…
No, I’m lost. You’ll have to explain again.
In a pre-trib rapture scenario, people would surely believe about anything, just so they won’t go crazy not knowing what happened.
Many people practically refuse to have faith, even in face of overwhelming proof. Jesus healed people who were handicapped for life, yet many who marveled still didn’t believe. To say that people are stubborn is an understatement.
I’m not so against the pre-trib rapture theory being taught, even to new Christians. What I’m against is it being taught as fact, especially to new Christians. If there is a chance the rapture is post-trib, and a chance that many people feeling mislead will accept the Mark as a result, then the logical conclusion would be that teaching the pre-trib rapture as fact will have a chance of leading to many people accepting the Mark.
The very idea that it is such a questionable theory should be enough for any responsible Christian to teach that it isn’t a fact, but a theory. Yet MANY churches teach it as fact, as though there were no other theory. The writers of “Left Behind” didn’t take the responsible route either: they didn’t put in the front or back of the books that it’s a theory, and it may actually happen “at the last trumpet”. They are, in effect, gambling with people’s salvation. (note: For those who believe that once anybody says the sinner’s prayer, they are automatically saved, forever, no matter what: I acknowledge you likely won’t accept what I just said.)

BTW, Jesus did say in the last days many people will begin believing myths about Christianity.

JitC...

 I really have grown tired of debating the pre/post trib rapture...however - I also recognize that there is a real need to discuss what the scriptures say about this topic. I am not going to engage in any mean spirited debate, which is what some topics, and particularly this one end up becoming - people are very sensitive when others try to surplant strongly held beliefs with their own. The reality of the situation is that there can only be one truth. The pre-trib rapture works best with the scriptures. The post trib rapture literally falls apart when we look closely at what the scriptures relay...

For example; God clearly tells us that we are not appointed to wrath. If you believe what God says, then you must conclude the rapture occurs before the wrath...now, if you believe the rapture occurs post-trib, when does the wrath occur?


 It would appear that you haven't read through the entire pre/post threads on this site. I can't blame you, as there are far too many pages on the topic.

 If you can handle a civil discussion on the facts of the rapture as found in the scriptures - I would be more than happy to have such a debate with you my friend. However - if things get ugly I will bail. So many of these discussions begin with courteous and honest intentions, only to end up foolish and mean spirited - I know, I have said things that I soon came to regret, and I have learned from these exchanges, not to engage in an "I'm right, your wrong" duel. If we can simply state our opinions on the topic without being negative toward each other, I would be glad to discus the topic with you.

Bronzesnake

Ya, me too. I'll look through the debate about the rapture at some point.
I believe the 7 seals and the scroll that John saw are a sort of summary of all that will happen. Just like the first book of the bible gives an overview, and then goes back to describe things in more detail. The 7 trumpets will be sounded throughout the tribulation, and the last one will mark the end of the tribulation. Jesus will come back for his people "at the last trumpet." Then God will pour out his wrath on the world with 7 bowl judgements.

 That doesn't really make sense to me JitC. First off - It's plainly stated in Revelations that very specific judgements are bestowed upon the inhabitants of the earth following each trumpet sound - so your explanation of an "overview" just doesn't fit what is clearly written in the Bible.

 Also - you're separating wrath from tribulation. Tribulation means a time of great trouble - the cause of the time of great trouble is God's wrath...they go hand in hand. In your scenario, the tribulation ends so that Jesus can rapture His people - then, the tribulation begins again with the 7 bowl judgements. At what point of the 7 final years do you believe the rapture will occur? at the end? if so, then how long do you believe the 7 bowl judgements will last?...it doesn't make any sense my friend.

 Many Christians confuse the "last trumpet" with the final trump of God.
 I think you should re-examine a couple of verses - such as...


 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  


1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  

 The above verse clearly makes a distinction between the "last trump" and the "trump of God" This is the last time we find "God's trump" mentioned throughout Revelations. The remaining verses clearly describe trumpets being blown by angels, and not God, as 1Th 4:16 clearly describes.


 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  


1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  

 The Rapture occurs at God's last trump...not the "final trump"

 Bronzesnake

 Associated Press
FDA Approves Use of Chip in Patients
Wednesday October 13, 11:27 pm ET
By Diedtra Henderson
FDA Approves Use of Implantable Chip in Patients to Pass Medical Information to Doctors

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Medical milestone or privacy invasion? A tiny computer chip approved Wednesday for implantation in a patient's arm can speed vital information about a patient's medical history to doctors and hospitals. But critics warn that it could open new ways to imperil the confidentiality of medical records.

ADVERTISEMENT
The Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday that Applied Digital Solutions of Delray Beach, Fla., could market the VeriChip, an implantable computer chip about the size of a grain of rice, for medical purposes.

With the pinch of a syringe, the microchip is inserted under the skin in a procedure that takes less than 20 minutes and leaves no stitches. Silently and invisibly, the dormant chip stores a code that releases patient-specific information when a scanner passes over it.

Think UPC code. The identifier, emblazoned on a food item, brings up its name and price on the cashier's screen.

The VeriChip itself contains no medical records, just codes that can be scanned, and revealed, in a doctor's office or hospital. With that code, the health providers can unlock that portion of a secure database that holds that person's medical information, including allergies and prior treatment. The electronic database, not the chip, would be updated with each medical visit.

The microchips have already been implanted in 1 million pets. But the chip's possible dual use for tracking people's movements -- as well as speeding delivery of their medical information to emergency rooms -- has raised alarm.

"If privacy protections aren't built in at the outset, there could be harmful consequences for patients," said Emily Stewart, a policy analyst at the Health Privacy Project.

To protect patient privacy, the devices should reveal only vital medical information, like blood type and allergic reactions, needed for health care workers to do their jobs, Stewart said.

An information technology guru at Detroit Medical Center, however, sees the benefits of the devices and will lobby for his center's inclusion in a VeriChip pilot program.

"One of the big problems in health care has been the medical records situation. So much of it is still on paper," said David Ellis, the center's chief futurist and co-founder of the Michigan Electronic Medical Records Initiative.

As "medically mobile" patients visit specialists for care, their records fragment on computer systems that don't talk to each other.

"It's part of the future of medicine to have these kinds of technologies that make life simpler for the patient," Ellis said. Pushing for the strongest encryption algorithms to ensure hackers can't nab medical data as information transfers from chip to reader to secure database, will help address privacy concerns, he said.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Wednesday announced $139 million in grants to help make real President Bush's push for electronic health records for most Americans within a decade.

William A. Pierce, an HHS spokesman, could not say whether VeriChip and its accompanying secure database of medical records fit within that initiative.

"Exactly what those technologies are is still to be sorted out," Pierce said. "It all has to respect and comport with the privacy rules."

Applied Digital gave away scanners to a few hundred animal shelters and veterinary clinics when it first entered the pet market 15 years ago. Now, 50,000 such scanners have been sold.

To kickstart the chip's use among humans, Applied Digital will provide $650 scanners for free at 200 of the nation's trauma centers.

In pets, installing the chip runs about $50. For humans, the chip implantation cost would be $150 to $200, said Angela Fulcher, an Applied Digital spokeswoman.

Fulcher could not say whether the cost of data storage and encrypted transmission of medical information would be passed to providers.

Because the VeriChip is invisible, it's also unclear how health care workers would know which unconscious patients to scan. Company officials say if the chip use becomes routine, scanning triceps for hidden chips would become second nature at hospitals.

Ultimately, the company hopes patients who suffer from such ailments as diabetes and Alzheimer's or who undergo complex treatments, like chemotherapy, would have chips implanted. If the procedure proves as popular for use in humans as in pets, that could mean up to 1 million chips implanted in people. So far, just 1,000 people across the globe have had the devices implanted, very few of them in the United States.

The company's chief executive officer, Scott R. Silverman, is one of a half dozen executives who had chips implanted. Silverman said chips implanted for medical uses could also be used for security purposes, like tracking employee movement through nuclear power plants.

Such security uses are rare in the United States.

Meanwhile, the chip has been used for pure whimsy: Club hoppers in Barcelona, Spain, now use the microchip to enter a VIP area and, through links to a different database, speed payment much like a smartcard.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041013/fda_implantable_chip_15.html

Theres a new world coming, and its coming fast.
Bob

"If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep (died) in Jesus will God bring with him."   1Thes.4:14

That verse tells us very plainly that it is "those who "died" in Christ" which Jesus brings back with him.  

This is true!   However, to be resurrected, one must first die.   Paul revealed that not all would taste death, but be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and be caught up to meet those resurrected and the Lord in the air.   The blessed hope!

Tit 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed

The Resurrection is a promise to the sleeping.  The rapture is a promise and hope for the living!

Grace and Peace!

So, are you saying that "the resurrection of the dead takes place at the pre-trib rapture"?

PAUL is saying it will happen at the same time!   :)

Grace and Peace!

 I saw a program today in which a tech company is developing micro chips that are the size of a grain of dust!!!
 These chips can I.D. you, they can hold every piece of information on you including licences, medical, monatary transactions, criminal record, work records,etc - these chips can also track you in real time!!!

 Perhaps that old children's Christmas song was actually prophetic...
 "He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake!"

 Santa Clause is real!!! or is that Satan Clause? hmmmm.

Bronzesnake

I believe its Satan Clause

 I'm with you on this DW Gather up the towns folk, tell em to fetch their pitch forks and torches...Let's "git em!"

 Bronzesnake

Hm.  Now that's interesting.

Satan Claus.


    :-X

I've seen the "Satans Claws" several times really.  It's a shame really but the concept of Santa Clause is wide sweeping across countries and his/her character is always one of giving to those that have not.

Really it wasn't a bad idea but it got twisted somewhere along the line and became a time for giving and recieving to each other who already have.

When I grew up though the only time I recieved any gift or something was strictly at my birthday or Christmas.  That's not how I do things with my son and family now anymore though.  If we see something we think another would like or need we just get it for them.

That's all very well said, Saved4.  very apropos.  It got twisted somewhere along the line...

I just noticed this from DW last July:

October 13th 2004

FDA CLEARS VERICHIP™ FOR MEDICAL APPLICATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES

DELRAY BEACH , FL and So. ST. PAUL, MN -- Applied Digital (NASDAQ: ADSX), a provider of Security Through Innovation™ and Digital Angel Corporation (AMEX:DOC) announced today that VeriChip™, the world’s first implantable radio frequency identification (RFID) microchip for human use, has been cleared by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for medical uses in the United States. The FDA clearance follows the completion of a de novo application review.

he Company will hold a conference call today at 10:30 am eastern time in order to discuss the FDA’s decision, Company’s marketing strategy and medical applications for VeriChip. Interested participants should dial (800) 472-8309. The conference ID is 1531948. The call will also be webcast and will be available on the Home Page of Applied Digital’s web site at www.adsx.com.

As previously disclosed, the FDA response is the result of the Company’s 510(k) application and subsequent de novo application for the medical and healthcare uses of VeriChip, originally submitted in October 2003. Digital Angel Corporation is the manufacturer of VeriChip and has licensed the technology to VeriChip Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Applied Digital, for human applications.

The VeriChip Health Information Microtransponder System consists of an implantable RFID microtransponder, an inserter, a proprietary hand-held scanner, and secure database containing the patient approved healthcare information. About the size of a grain of rice, VeriChip is a subdermal radio frequency microchip. Once inserted under the skin in a brief outpatient procedure, the VeriChip cannot be seen by the human eye. Each VeriChip contains a unique 16-digit verification number that is captured by briefly passing a proprietary scanner over the insertion site. The captured 16 digit number links to the database via encrypted Internet access. The previously stored information is then conveyed via the internet to the registered requesting healthcare provider.

About VeriChip™

VeriChip is a subdermal RFID device that can be used in a variety of security, financial, emergency identification and other applications. About the size of a grain of rice, each VeriChip product contains a unique verification number that is captured by briefly passing a proprietary scanner over the VeriChip. The recommended location of the microchip is in the triceps area between the elbow and the shoulder of the right arm. The brief outpatient “chipping” procedure lasts just a few minutes and involves only local anesthetic followed by quick, painless insertion of the VeriChip. Once inserted just under the skin, the VeriChip is inconspicuous to the naked eye. A small amount of radio frequency energy passes from the scanner energizing the dormant VeriChip, which then emits a radio frequency signal transmitting the verification number. In October 2004, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) cleared VeriChip for medical applications in the United States. VeriChip is not an FDA-regulated device with regard to its security, financial, personal identification/safety applications. VeriChip Corporation is a wholly owned subsidiary of Applied Digital.

About Applied Digital

Applied Digital develops innovative security products for consumer, commercial, and government sectors worldwide. Our unique and often proprietary products provide security for people, animals, the food supply, government/military arena, and commercial assets. Included in this diversified product line are RFID applications, end-to-end food safety systems, GPS/Satellite communications, and telecomm and security infrastructure, positioning Applied Digital as the leader of Security Through Innovation™. Applied Digital is the owner of a majority position in Digital Angel Corporation (AMEX: DOC). For more information, visit the company's website at http://www.adsx.com.

About Digital Angel Corporation

Digital Angel Corporation develops and deploys sensor and communications technologies that enable rapid and accurate identification, location tracking, and condition monitoring of high-value assets. Applications for the Company's products include identification and monitoring of pets, fish, livestock, and humans through its patented implantable microchips; location tracking and message monitoring of vehicles and aircraft in remote locations through systems that integrate GPS and geosynchronous satellite communications; and monitoring of asset conditions such as temperature and movement, through advanced miniature sensors.

For more information about Digital Angel, visit the company’s website at www.DigitalAngelCorp.com.

Statements about the Company's future expectations, including future revenues and earnings, and all other statements in this press release other than historical facts are "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and as that term is defined in the Private Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties and are subject to change at any time, and the Company's actual results could differ materially from expected results. The Company undertakes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect subsequently occurring events or circumstances.

http://www.4verichip.com/nws_10132004FDA.htm

From their own website.
Thank you but no, I wouldn't want to be implanted. Not the mark of the beast.
Bob

Its interesting how wrapped up in end time prophesy people get. Many Christians worry about it constantly and are adamant and dogmatic over certain things. Like this whole idea of micro chips being implanted.. there is nothing in the bible to suggest its a microchip. It may well be, it might be a bar code, it might be a tatoo... but essentially, whatever it is.. it shouldn't bother us.

I believe it will be some sort of mark that clearly shows the wearers allegeance to the beast. We are so concerned with the antichrist, and his reign, and the mark, and all this stuff, that we often forget whats really important. The war going on within our own hearts. I don't believe the bible sheds enough light on the end times for us to make any rock solid conclusions about it. Thats why we see so many different theories on it in books today. People keep looking to the future and worrying about the antichrist.. but listen to what God has said...

1 John 2:18 ¶  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2 Thess 2:3 ¶  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Instead of worrying ourselves with the future reign of the antichrist, what we really need to be watching out for is the spirit of antichrist within the church. This is how the falling away will occur, I believe. Some poeple think the apostacy refers to the world as a whole.. but the original word means to fall away... how can one fall away unless one has faith in the first place. The falling away is within the church. Corrupt men are in many positions of power within the church, who even deny the virgin birth and the deity of Jesus. These are antichrists, and we should be careful to guard our hearts against their deceptions, along with all those who preach prosperity.

Try telling the Christians in China and Idonesia who are being martyred and made homeless and jobless to worry about not buying or selling.. they already live like that... they have nothing to buy or sell! Brothers and sisters, the war against sin in our own heart is where its at. We must cling to Jesus and repent of our apathy and lukewarmness... spend time in His prescence and get to know Him more and more. He's going to shake up His church so that the faithful remnant will have no option but to trust in Him for their every provision!!
Thats what the Israelites in the wilderness is a foreshadow of.. God forcing His people to rely on Him daily.

I pray that we will all come into a fuller knowledge of the person of Jesus Christ, not just know about Him and His words.. but know Him personally, God help us all to live up to His calling.

And rightly so bern. I don't worry about it at all. 2T and myself have just reported the news, in alot of threads. When we have an opinon, we have posted it as our opinon.

One of the reasons for these threads, is to show, after the rapture what is coming.

Amen!! Bern

Sorry mate, I didn't necessarily mean that my comments applied to you and 2T.. was more of a general comment really. Addressing the fear and obsession you find all over the church in these days.

  Good observation my friend. If it gets to the point of worrying or paranoia, then one must question the strength of their strength in faith and understanding of the scriptures. However, I do believe it is incumbent upon Christians to at least try to conceive of what scriptures such as the ones concerning the mark of the beast mean, so we can make those of us who are not saved yet aware of the coming situation, even if they don't believe in it. When it actually begins to happen, the foreknowledge will no doubt effect the future destinies of many souls.

Bronzesnake

Playing catch-up, so if this has been answered just send me the right direction. ;D
THis post reminded me of when my older brother accused me of seeing a devil behind every tree, it offended me at first. It was his way of saying I was a relegious freak, I couldn't see any good in the world, and and more so he wasn't taking me serioulsy. I felt his mockery of me was laughing at the bible as well,. But not anymore, I don't care who or what anyone may think of me, (since he has also begun to rethink he thinking) but YES I do see a demon behind every tree, Thank God for the tree but this world seems to be more intense, more evil as the days go by. I do understand my brothers old reluctance, I wonder how we can see the precious gifts God has given us in this world when all we see or are surrounded with is the evil that appears in TV, music, magazines, peoples behaviors etc etc etc Faith, hasnt died, or christian charity, hope It still out there, we as Christians have to find it, procude, but we need to be smart as well. These chips seems to me is just another step in a one world system, one currency, one relegion,.......... one way of controlling what all people can do, just the way the anti- christ will need for it to be so he can take power. STill I wonder, and I ask, taking the "mark of the beast" isn't that a choice that people make, is the 666# a symbol, or a real thing  like a tatoo, or is is a condition of the heart? Chip or no chip its a choice a person makes with there own mind....? just a wondering what you all thought
musicllover

All we know about it is what is stated in Revelation.

NASB
Rev 13:16  And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Rev 13:17  and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

If it is implemented from an individual of power, designed to be in the hand or forehead, and is required to buy or sell, I would be warry.   Don't know if it will be a litteral 666 or not, but that number is said to be His number somehow.

Grace and Peace!

Timothy,
           I believe it will be a literally "something" like a tatoo, or a chip in the forehead or hand. So ya I agree anything to do with these body parts would be a defiant no no.
   I guess the reason I ask, several years ago when we got plates for our new car the last 3 numbers were 666. I had several church friends tell me to get rid of the plate, (I didn't know I could have asked for a different set) when others would scoff it off, say well its only a number right now, nothing to do with the Anti Christ, its only after the anti christ comes into power that the 666 will come into play. What happens if a person takes this chip for reasons that have nothing to do with the anti christ, for example the military could use it instead of dog tags, or  maybe a person knows nothing of the "end times" etc etc? That is why I asked about the condition of the heart? Kinda like what comes first decision or mark.....surely the decision must come. The mark can not be forced or can it?
musicllover

This is a tough question.   From other verses in Revelation it appears that all who accept the mark ALSO worship the beast.

Rev 14:9  Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10  he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Most every mention of the mark after where it is explained at first, includes worship of the beast.  I am not positive that the two are tied, but it certainly appears that way.   I suspect, that to receive this mark, one would have to pledge allegiance to the beast in some fashion....or perhaps denounce Christianity.  

I'm pretty sure you would not be able to take the mark accidentally as a true believer.   Others however, might.  It does say, that "He CAUSES all to receive a mark".   It will come from the antichrist, and it is necessary to buy or sell at that point.    

Hope this helps a little

Grace and Peace!

Timothy,
        Yes this does, at least it another opinion that is the same as how I understand. Worship of the image is necessary, once that is done, the mark become apparant, wether in chip or tatoo form. Its a done deal at that point no turning back, your heart if forever sealed for damnation.
      I guess I am hyper vigilant when it comes to the mark and endtimes. I have had for years, dreams of demons and end times senerios. I have no idea why, I wasn't raised in a church. But I had a Grandmother who spoke of the blood up the the horses bridles, and not being able to have bibles, and even in an unchurched family I knew that Jesus was an important person. It scared me as a kid, well ok it scares me now, althought I can't wait either. After I had children the dreams were more common. I suppose the fear/responsiblity of raising Godly children.  Now after they are beginning to reach adulthood and I see my short comings I worry, did I give them enough info, or maybe I give them to much like the tibits from my grandmother.
      With the technology in place for what appears to be the ablity to have the "mark" it just bring all the concern back.
   Maybe I am way off here, but I can see the anti christ's military people forcing christians to renounce Christ, (those left behind, that have made a decision after the rapture) if they don't they will kill a loved one in some horrible painful way right before their eyes. I read the left behind series and there are some such drama in the fictional based stories. So I guess I'm not the only one with a great imagination at work (lol) but I do worry about such things...... With tech. in place I must ask, have I given my children, my Sunday school class  (teenagers) enough information for them to be ready to die, no matter rapture or natural death.
      The endtimes is a fasinating subject, like the best love, story, and horror movie excets its very very real.  Thanks
musicllover

New Jersey Police Chief chipped, part of strategy to accelerate adoption of chip
Bergen County Chief Of Police Jack Schmidig leads Regional Roll-Out of VeriChip by Receiving a VeriChip
Friday April 22, 8:30 am ET

With Hospital Emergency Room Infrastructure To Provide Secure ID and Medical Record Access For VeriChip Patients, Thought and Opinion Leaders to Play Key Role in Adoption of VeriChip(TM)

DELRAY BEACH, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 22, 2005-- VeriChip Corporation, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Applied Digital (NASDAQ: ADSX - News), announced today that the Bergen County, New Jersey Chief of Police has been implanted with the VeriChip. Chief of Police Jack Schmidig, a member of the police force for over 30 years, received a VeriChip as part of the Company's strategy of enlisting key regional leaders to accelerate adoption of the VeriChip. With hospital emergency room infrastructure forming, patients will have the ability to provide secure ID and medical record access in an emergency or clinical situation.

"High-profile regional leaders are accepting the VeriChip, representing an excellent example of our approach to gaining adoption of the technology," said Kevin H. McLaughlin, VeriChip Corporation's CEO. "The northern New Jersey area represents one of our early regional targets, and in a short time period we have secured a leading hospital in the region which has agreed to adopt the VeriChip System to scan patients; initiated efforts to educate the physician community in conjunction with one of our distribution partners Henry Schein Corporation, and implanted several high-profile members of the community with the VeriChip. We intend to employ this approach on a regional basis to accelerate acceptance of this Class II medical device."

VeriChip Corporation has adopted three key elements to its marketing strategy to develop regional acceptance for VeriChip. They include developing the infrastructure at regional hospitals to support the VeriChip System (scanner and database) in the Emergency Rooms; educating the medical community in the region in conjunction with Henry Schein and other distribution partners; and seeking high-profile members of the community to receive the VeriChip to raise awareness of the device.

Initially, the Company has identified several groups of patients that are likely to benefit from the VeriChip due to medical conditions. These include diabetics, chronic and cardiac care patients, memory impaired patients and patients with implanted medical devices. These patients would benefit from having a VeriChip as a result of medical conditions that increase the likelihood of an emergency room visit, which could require time-sensitive procedures where access to medical records would be critical.

Using the VeriChip System, the emergency room attendant could scan the VeriChip in the patient's arm, accessing a unique 16-digit ID number. This number would be linked to a medical records database, which would provide detailed information on implanted medical devices and patient medical records, which could provide valuable information allowing the hospital to quickly implement the appropriate procedures on patients who otherwise might not be able to communicate medical histories due to impaired conditions.

About VeriChip Corporation

VeriChip Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Applied Digital, provides leading-edge security solutions for people, their assets, and their environments. From the world's first and only FDA-cleared, human-implantable microchip to the only active RFID tag with patented skin-sensing capabilities, VeriChip leads the way in next-generation RFID technologies. Today, over 3,000 installations in healthcare, security, industry, and governments worldwide benefit from both the protection and cost savings that VeriChip Corporation's innovation delivers. For more information on VeriChip Corporation, please visit www.verichipcorp.com.

About Applied Digital

Applied Digital develops innovative security products for consumer, commercial, and government sectors worldwide. The Company's unique and often proprietary products provide security for people, animals, the food supply, government/military arena, and commercial assets. Included in this diversified product line are RFID applications, end-to-end food safety systems, GPS/Satellite communications, and telecomm and security infrastructure, positioning Applied Digital as the leader of Security Through Innovation. Applied Digital is the owner of a majority position in Digital Angel Corporation (AMEX: DOC - News).

For more information, visit the company's website at http://www.adsx.com.

Statements about the Company's future expectations, including future revenues and earnings, and all other statements in this press release other than historical facts are "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and as that term is defined in the Private Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties and are subject to change at any time, and the Company's actual results could differ materially from expected results. The Company undertakes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect subsequently occurring events or circumstances.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050422/225197.html?.v=1

Maybe someone alrady mentioned this, i didn't read all seven pages of posts.  But I am sure that all the recent news about Children being abducted and sexually abused (especially in Florida, the state that i recently took up residence in, ugh, if only I'd known how krazy these people are, hah) will have an effect on people.  People will use it as an excuse to get their children, and maybe even themselves, inserted with some sort of tracking chip.  The media is creating this fear by reporting all these sad stroies which will most likely have repercussions.
  I see all these other posts about all the people and places that are already adopting this technology and its kinda scary.  
  The Mighty Lord is no doubt returning soon. Praise Jesus.
Peace.

Its possible.   We seem to be seeing more and more reasons that this particular technology would be a good thing.   Mainly terrorism and the ability to keep tabs of people who would do terrible things.   Jesus indicated these times would be similar.

Luk 21:26  Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Its easy even as believers to be frightened about what lies ahead.   But our hope is in the return of Christ!

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Grace and Peace!

Musiclover said:



ML, sorry I havent responded to this sooner, but I didn't see your post till now.

There is a lot of talk like this amongst the mid trib proponents.   That we must be prepared to face persecution in order that we might stand at that time.   I find this somewhat troubling, because I'm not sure there is no amount of preparation that would make us ready for such a thing.    If ones faith is truly in Christ, only He would be able to make us stand up in the face of such terrible things.   If someone is basing their ability to stand up to such trials due to preparing in their minds to do so, I'm affraid their faith is placed in the wrong place.

I personally believe the rapture will happen prior to this, but Jesus told His deciples not to worry about what they would say when brought to trial, that HE would give them words.   Faith in Christ I believe is the Key, not Rambo training.  ;)


I pray that the rapture takes place prior, but either way I trust God knows best!   :)

Grace and Peace!

Applied Digital's VeriChip Corporation signs new distributors for Asian, European and Middle East regions



VeriChip Corporation, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Applied Digital, a provider of Security Through Innovation announced that it has selected new distributors for the Asian, European and Middle Eastern regions. Through these selections, the company expects to expand the use of VeriChip for security and medical applications in China, Japan, Malaysia, Taiwan, Israel and Germany.

VeriChip awarded Scientific Innovation and Integration (SII) Korea, the non-exclusive distribution rights to, China, Taiwan and Japan. SII is a multinational provider of security and healthcare services with offices based in South Korea. In addition, the Company awarded a non-exclusive distribution agreement to Inforlexus, Inc., a provider of secure technology for people, providing IT management and security products for 30 years for Malaysia. The Company had previously awarded the exclusive distributorship to another entity in the country that failed to meet its minimum purchase requirement and was, therefore, terminated.

The Company also awarded non-exclusive distribution rights to Biometronix for Germany. Biometronix is a German-based company specialising in high security solutions for access control utilising biometric technologies. Finally, VeriChip Corporation granted non-exclusive distribution rights to Glezer Technology, an Israeli company focusing on new technologies for the healthcare and security marketplace.
http://www.digitalmediaasia.com/default.asp?ArticleID=7541&cachecommand=bypass&Print=true

Digital Angel Corporation and VeriChip Corporation Announce Plans to Initiate Clinical Studies of Verichip With Bio-Thermo (Temperature Sensing) Capabilities
Thursday April 28, 1:16 pm ET

SO. ST. PAUL, Minn., April 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Digital Angel Corporation (Amex: DOC - News), an advanced technology company in the field of rapid and accurate identification location tracking, and condition monitoring of high-value assets and VeriChip Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Applied Digital (Nasdaq: ADSX - News) today announced that the companies plan to initiate clinical studies on an enhanced version of its Verichip implantable radio frequency identification device. The enhanced product will include temperature sensing capabilities in addition to its existing identification capabilities. The companies will retain an independent internationally recognized research institute to conduct the trials. Based upon the results of that study, Digital Angel plans to pursue the necessary regulatory procedures to obtain clearance from the Food and Drug Administration to distribute such a transponder in the United States for human use. In October of 2004, Digital Angel received clearance from the Food and Drug Administration to distribute a transponder for patient identification applications.

The Verichip with temperature sensing capabilities will allow a transponder to provide a unique identification code as well as to provide the temperature of the individual. Various potential customers have approached Digital Angel and Verichip about incorporating the temperature sensing capability into the Verichip.

A temperature sensing chip for animals (specifically companion pets) was introduced by Digital Angel under the Bio-Thermo mark in the United Kingdom at the end of 2004. Digital Angel has received the necessary regulatory approvals to market the Bio-Thermo chip for animal applications in the United States and plans to introduce the temperature-sensing chip for animal use in the third quarter of this year. The Bio-Thermo transponder for companion pets has also been introduced in Europe and Japan.

About Digital Angel Corporation

Digital Angel Corporation develops and deploys sensor and communications technologies that enable rapid and accurate identification, location tracking, and condition monitoring of high-value assets. Applications for the Company's products include identification and monitoring of pets, fish, humans and livestock through its patented implantable microchips; location tracking and message monitoring of vehicles and aircraft in remote locations through systems that integrate GPS and geosynchronous satellite communications; and monitoring of asset conditions such as temperature and movement, through advanced miniature sensors.

Digital Angel Corporation is majority-owned by Applied Digital, Inc. (Nasdaq: ADSX - News). For more information about Digital Angel, please visit www.DigitalAngelCorp.com.

The statements in this press release that are not strictly historical, are "forward-looking" statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 and are intended to be covered by the safe harbors created by these sections. The forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties and the actual results that the Company achieves may differ materially from these forward-looking statements due to such risks and uncertainties, including, but not limited to, that the Company's majority stockholder, Applied Digital Inc. owns 55.2% of the Company's common stock; that new accounting pronouncements may impact the Company's future results of operation; that the Company may continue to incur losses, that infringements by third parties on the Company's intellectual property or development of substantially equivalent proprietary technology by the Company's competitors could negatively affect the Company's business; that domestic and foreign government regulation and other factors could impair the Company's ability to develop and sell the Company's products in certain markets; that the Company relies on sales to government contractors of its animal identification products, and any decline in the demand by these customers for the Company's products could negatively affect the Company's business; that the Company depends on a single production arrangement for its patented syringe-injectable microchips; that the Company depends on principal customers; that the Company competes with other companies and the products sold by the Company's competitors could become more popular than the Company's products or render the Company's products as obsolete; that the Company's earnings will decline if the Company must write-off goodwill and other intangible assets; that the exercise of options and warrants outstanding and available for issuance may adversely affect the market price of the Company's common stock ;that currency exchange rate fluctuations could have an adverse effect on the Company's sales and financial results; and that the Company depends on a small team of senior management and the Company may have difficulty attracting and retaining additional personnel. A detailed statement of risks and uncertainties is contained in the Company's reports to the Securities and Exchange Commission, including in particular the Company's Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2004. Investors and stockholders are urged to read this document carefully. The Company can offer no assurances that any projections, assumptions or forecasts made or discussed in this release will be met, and investors should understand the risks of investing solely due to such projections. The Company undertakes no obligation to revise any forward-looking statements in order to reflect events or circumstances that may arise after the date of this press release.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050428/lath095.html?.v=7&printer=1

Just curious to know if you guys were aware that the Universal Product Code contains 666?  Notice that there are three bars, one on the left, one on the right, and one in the centre that are not showing their numerical value.  Take a guess at why!  Also, the Word Wide Web is encoded also.  In Hebrew, W's number value is 6.  www.com = 666.com  Also, notice the phrase WORLD-WIDE WEB, sounds like a synonym for the New World Order!  The antichrist will excercise power over all nations and kindreds and perhaps the internet is likewise a mechanism in this scam.  Not trying to sound depressing, just realistic.  What do you guys think?

Some products also have "H" and "RH" in the bar code. We covered this a long time ago.  :D  Glad to see you are keeping up todate. :D

People that work in the ICT sector know that RFID is here to stay.
Last month I bought a wireless mouse without batteries for my wife.

Guess what: It works on RFID, the pad under the mouse 'beams' the juice to the mouse, and its electronics start to work, you can even move the mouse an inch in the air and power is still being transmitted for the mouse to operate.

Mayor food retailers are replacing their barcode with RFID, as it will not only make purchase of a product easier; theft will become increasingly difficult in the same product.

People will be issued card with the same technology; and here is the very, very small step toward 'the mark' ; people LOSE their cards, or FORGET them....  

Then my friends and fellow citicens, the pretrib rapture plans are over; and reality and fear will strike into millions and millions of wrong educated christians.

But as the word says :
Luk 16:8  And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

and further on:
Luk 16:13  No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Choose, as there is a choice: and yes you should prepare !

And then one might ask : with what should we prepare ?

Read and hear :
Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

God will seal off His servants, and when He asks to forsake then YOU MUST FORSAKE !

More info on this topic: http://www.antipasministries.com/

Actually I have some insight to the bar code thingy....being an IT tech at Blockbuster Inc. I work in the RF scanner department.   I'm not sure if all scanners work this way, but for ours, each bar code must start and end with an asteric.   The scanner reads the asteric at the beginning and the end and knows the number of importance is between the two.   Not to dismiss the possibilities, but just thought it might add some light to the topic.

As for the www theory...I will say that before the world wide web, there has never been such a resource that unites peoples of all walks of life, language, money etc.   Its almost reminicent of Babylon days when God used language as the barrier to slow mans wickedness down.   Also of interest, is that most cashless transactions now make use of the www.  When you swipe your card at the gas station, the www in most cases is used to transfer that data.....even though most do not know this.   So much for not making purchases online eh?

I don't know about the www=666 thing, but its interesting to ponder.  

Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The condition used to inforce the mark...(also note how it speaks of the mark, the name of the beast, OR the number of HIS name)

Rev 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


If its a required mark (or stake-in, as the greek terms it) or name on the right hand or forehead that is needed for the purpose of buying of selling, beware!   It is also mentioned that those who bear this mark will also worship the beast...all important clues for those who will face it.




There is loads of info in these two verses, yet the its still uncertain what it is the mid tribbers will actually be dealing with...... LOL  :D  


Just kidding just kidding twobombs!!!!!   Yes that was below the belt, but you know I love you bro!


Grace and Peace!

2nd Timothy, let me add this if you will.  The microchip founder Carl Saunders, of whom many have attempted in vain to discredit, says that the biochip consists of three compartments made up of 6 bits each.  I thought that that was interesting.  Do you think that the Rapture is a saved-based event or a reward-based event?  Certain parables of Jesus and His words to some of the churches in the Book of Revelation make me think that perhaps the Rapture is works-based.  Nothing to do with salvation though.  What do you think?

Very briefly...

the info on Saunders is definitely brow rasing!   Would love to hear more.

As for works based rapture, I do not believe that.   I believe that all spirit indwelled believers will be taken at that time.   I think I know which verses you are refering to, but we can get into those later this week when I get more time.

Grace and Peace!

We all have come too far on this forum to stumble on those type of puny details. Mind you; 3.5 years is a relative short timeframe to meddle about.

:)

I agree that this tech. is a HUGE invasion of privacy but it seems to me that mass implimentation is 1 Too expensive and 2 the possibility for theft/duplication it too high.

Wouldn't take long for the "chip" to be replicated by a techie. I know the military has programable chips for ID cards but have to have 3 other forms of ID to go along with it. You still need the photo ID cause what would stop someone from takeing youe card and accessing confidential info posing as the user.

An implated chip can be stolen as well by the theif with a strong stomach and no reguard for human life.

How long till there are chips available black market so people can "fake" it. You could be anyone you want.....for a price.

I agree that it does point tward the "mark" and may be a predicessor but I think there are too many flaws. Its not a definate.

Now when the technology gets to the point of being interactive with the host and can verify DNA on a recurring basis to verify the "carrier" and that they are indeed alive.....

I'll get concerned.

Hi rookyupgrade1,

Lets get back to the bible:

Rev 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The sign that is worn is conected to the Mammon (buy/sell) and to the soul :

Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So the souls of the men that wore the sign are punished; how did they mananged this ?

Lev 17:11  For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

and:

Gen 4:10  And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

This information reveals that the mark will connect the the life of the flesh to the mammon; in effect making a covenant with the god of money, the god of this world, etc.

God's people are also sealed, connecting them with the true and only Everlasting God.

Eze 9:4  And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Amen!   I will trust His timetable, whatever that may be!  



Rookieupgrade1...Greetings and welcome to CU!

I think you may be onto something here.   It is also my personal belief that Chip impants will likely be the means that the mark comes about.   The word used for mark in Revelation means stake.   Interesting that these chips are so small, they use a needle to implant them.  

Grace and Peace!

Rather than go off topic here, I'm going to start another thread for this topic ok?

Grace and Peace!