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IS SATURDAY THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH?


We know that Saturday was the Jewish Sabbath, being the last day of the week; but is it the Christian Sabbath? Some believe that the Emperor Constantine changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, but that God’s command is still to keep Saturday. Others believe that Christ changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday; therefore we should observe Sunday. Neither of these suppositions is correct. God never changed the sabbath from Saturday to another day. Neither did He give a sabbath day to the Body of Christ to keep. When professing Christians either continued, or began keeping, sabbath days, it was an indication to Paul that they had never under-stood the grace of God and that his labour had been in vain upon them. Listen to his words:

"Ye observe days,—I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain." (Gal. 4:10-11).

"Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Col. 2:16-17.)

A few years before Paul wrote these words, he could have been lawfully stoned to death for such teaching; for according to the law of Moses, a man was to be judged for these very things. But Christ had died and had become the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom. 10:4). Some try to argue that Christ became the end only of the ceremonial law, but that the sabbath along with the other nine commandments is still in effect. This is refuted by the Bible in several ways. First, the Apostle classes "sabbath keeping" with the other ceremonies which were shadows of good things to come, and emphatically denounces the keeping of the legal sabbath. Secondly, although some contend that the sabbath was given to Adam 2500 years before Moses and was therefore not a part of the law, the Bible makes it plain from Exodus 16:29; Ezekiel 20:12: and Nehemiah 9:10-12 that it was not given for man to keep until the law was given to Moses, and hence was one of those things written upon tables of stone which was "done away", "abolished" (II Corinthians 3:7-12). It is plainly stated in Exodus 31 that the sabbath was a sign between Jehovah and the children of Israel (verses 12 to 17). Thirdly, the teaching of Paul as to how the law was put aside is most conclusive. God put the law aside by causing it to judge us, condemn us, and put us to death in the person of a Substitute; so that we "are become dead to the law by the body of Christ," and "the law hath dominion over a man (only) as long as he liveth" (Rom. 7:1-4). It is because we died to the world of sin and of religious practices that we are no longer to be judged by such things (see Colossians 2:20; Galatians 2:20; etc.). The believer is dead, buried and risen with Christ. The sabbath was buried with Christ: Read Colossians 2:14

No one ever enjoyed the true sabbath rest by keeping of a day (Hebrews 4:4-11); for all who do such are working to keep the sabbath day; but it is necessary to cease from all our works, as God did, to have real rest. The sabbath days were a shadow of Christ. He has done all the work, so that we now find our rest in Him. He is our Sabbath. We can now come unto Him and rest. He died under the Law and was in the grave on the sabbath. He arose the Head of a new creation on the first day of the week, and it is for that reason that we, as members of that new creation, meet upon that day to preach the Word. (Acts 20:6, 7; I Corinthians 16:2; etc.).

by Charles F. Baker

Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

AMEN! Brother.

We rest, safe and secure, in the Hands of CHRIST, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We are also indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, all because of GOD'S MATCHLESS GRACE, THE GIFT OF HIS SON, AND OUR ACCEPTANCE OF HIM AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.

Thanks be unto God for HIS UNSPEAKABLE GIFT!

In Christ.

Amen Brother

Once again using scriptures out of context to teach the people we need not keep GODS SABBATH DAY.Shame be on ya!

GALATIANS 4 [6] And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying,
Abba, Father.[7] Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
[8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after
that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?[10] Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

LEV.19 [2] Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy. [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God. [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

Well look at this in LEV.19 in the same passage the WORD says keep my sabbaths and also you will not observe times.
Got about 5 or 6 passages on what observing times means. But i reckon ya dont really care.

DEUT.18  [10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.[12] For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.[13] Thou shalt
be perfect with the LORD thy God.[14] For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

Wreck N Sow You are wrongly dividing the Word of Truth

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:1:15)

There is only one eternal dwelling place where time is no more and days are not counted, nor weeks or months - IN CHRIST!

"For in Him ALL the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily, 10 and in Him you are made full, who is the head of ALL principality and power; (Col.2:9,10)

Hi Ammbassador
You Wrote
Wreck N Sow You are wrongly dividing the Word of Truth

Ya know im not.

Its all gonna come down to whats written. And whats written is whats written. Ya wont get away with nothin. Dont know if this is true but i did here it. WC Fields was readin the bible when somebody walked into his room. He quickly said, ah yes, im looking for loopholes. Well,there are none.If ya dont get to the Kingdom, you will be judged by your works at the end of the 1000 yr period of rest. Its pretty scary old buddy.If i was judged by my works, i dont think i would make it. But, maybe who knows.Ill leave that to my Lord.Its really not all that difficult to reach the kingdom. Just walk in the spirit of the law. Not only the letter. Simply get mad at no one. Think no evil in your heart against anyone.Easy to say isnt it. Boy, is it hard to do. What is the reward. SO GREAT. Yet, the flesh, if it has power over another flesh, whether its phyisical or mental will try to over power. Its a shame. So easy to enter the Kingdom, yet almost impossible. Do things concerning the flesh; gluteny,drunkeness, lust of the eyes make it hard to walk in the spirit. And if one of these things has power over your flesh, will it keep you from the Kingdom. Does a little leaven ,leaven the whole bunch? I think it does. You have to walk in the spirit of GODS law to enter HIS wonderful Kingdom.If you were to ask me tonight, Hey Wreck n Sow if ya die by morning would you enter the Kingdom of God, i would have to say no way. I DO NOT DESERVE TO ENTER HIS KINGDOM!

AINT THE GRACE OF GOD GREAT!!!!!   !!

Oklahoma Howdy to Wreck,

Here's a clue for you. Walking in the Spirit does not pertain to keeping the spirit of the law. Notice that "spirit of the law" is with a little "s". Walking in the SPIRIT is with a big "S". You rob yourself of joy and fellowship until you find out what this means.

Walking in the SPIRIT pertains to living in and through THE HOLY SPIRIT. This walk involves the joy of fellowship with our LORD AND SAVIOUR.

The Gospel of the Grace of God, THE GOOD NEWS, AND THE GIFT are all JESUS CHRIST, not the law.

If you are not enjoying your Christianity more than you did when you were saved something is wrong! Are you trying to live under a yoke of bondage? Let us keep in mind what Paul was trying to teach the Galatians in chapter three! For he said in chapter two verse sixteen Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith of Jesus Christ even we have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by faith of Christ and not by the works of the law: for bye the works of the law shall no flesh be justified

Right On!

Brother Love :)

I agree with A4C

Brother Love :)

YES!!!! It Is, I Pray That Someday You Will Know His Grace and Know His Peace


Brother Love :)

One More Amen Brother


Brother Love :)

Right On!!!! Amen Bro


Brother Love :)

PSALM 119 [84] How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me?[85] The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.[86] All thy commandments are faithful:
they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.

Hello Wreck,

You would call it persecution to spend 7 days a week in fellowship with the Lord and Saviour instead of 1. I don't believe this will fly. Your balloon is lead, and you dug your own pit.

Brother Ambassador4Christ, I think you are gravely mistaken on this matter, I have to agree with Wreck N Sow.

You see, the 9 commandments (The "two" last ones are really one command, just read Exodus chapter 20) are to be kept even today and by all people. The 9 commandments were ethic laws given to (apply to) all of mankind for all time, whereas the rest of the laws were specific for that time and for the jewish people. See the clear seperation of these two sets of laws when reading the end of chapter 20 and the beginning of chapter 21 in Exodus.

Jesus himself said he had not come to abolish the law but to confirm it!

Regarding the sabbath: This is a gift from God, to keep us from wearing ourselves out from work. God gave us one day a week to relax. He made this a law so that any God-fearing employer would have to respect a worker's right to sunday off. (or was it saturday?) Why would this law no longer apply? People still work don't they?

Hi BEPs,
If you go back and look at my last post you will see i said nothing.If something convicted you, it was the WORD.And not 1 of them are my words.

BROTHER LOVE, you asked
If you are not enjoying your Christianity more than you did when you were saved something is wrong! Are you trying to live under a yoke of bondage?

NO, JUST THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY

JAMES 1  [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he
beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso
looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of
the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The perfect law of liberty-blessed be the man that be a doer of the work

JAMES 2  [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said,
Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Do not commit adultry,do not kill(the 10 commandments)-  and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

PSALM 119  [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.[45] And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I will delight myself in thy commandments,
which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY-That cant be misinterpreted

AINT THE WORD OF GOD GREAT

DEUT.13  [3] Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.[4] Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.[5] And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him - HE redeemed you out of the house of bondage

DEUT.6  [12] Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.[13] Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.[14] Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;[15] (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.[16] Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.[17] Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

The LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the HOUSE OF BONDAGE.
Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies. Hey theres the law and the testimony again. Just like the WORD says in Revelations.
NOW????Brother love, what bondage am i walking in?

Where does it say confirm it?

Wreck N Sow Said "AINT THE WORD OF GOD GREAT"


AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!

Now when you get to understand it, it will be a lot better.

Grace & Peace


Brother Love :)
 

"God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21).


Brother Love :)

BRO
PSALM 7 [6] Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.[7] So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high.[8] The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.[9] Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

When Jesus rises to shake the earth-[8] The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.[9] Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end

Its true that our righteousness will fall short. We all have sinned. Thats where the grace of God comes in and righteousness of Jesus Christ. But if you practice unrighteousness,well...that aint good.

ISAIAH 48 [17] Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

You do know who your redeemer is?

SAVED_4EVER
Where does it say confirm?
HOMIE
Sorry, I was paraphrasing. It says "fulfil", not "confirm".

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

My points still stand though, has anyone refuted them?
The idea that the law no longer applies is ludicrous.

Homie,

Here is the mystery and secret. Man didn't and couldn't, so Jesus Did fulfill the Law on the cross with HIS precious BLOOD. Man can't enjoy or appreciate this perfect GIFT until he or she understands what the GIFT was and what it meant.

If you wish to seek joy, seek the understanding of THE GIFT.

Homie
If your new at this and excited that youve found all these wonderful things in the WORD, brace yourself. These and all sunday go to meeting guys(and im not judging them, just speaking the truth)only believe in few lines of scripture. And they are in new testament and taken out of context.Their teachers have taken single lines out of the bible and have built doctrines out of them.You can tell them in order to recieve the Holy Spirit the WORD says you must keep the commandments. They dont believe that part of the Word. Enter the Kindom you must keep the commandments. They dont believe that scripture either. Most of em have Adoph Hitler right there in heaven right now. He believed and in fact thought he was settin up the 1000 yr period of rest. They say once saved always saved.Saved and born again. Ya die, flit off to heaven ,grab a harp and join the quior.And they believe nothin said in the old.They only believe smooth things which there itching ears wanna hear. Even invented a rapture thing so they wouldnt have to go through any bad stuff. I guess it sooths them but no matter, the WORD will come to pass.Homie, i dont mean to be so negitive, but ive been doin this for a while and its just the way it is. I know ya couldnt tell it by my words ive written here but i really like all these people here and i wish them the best. At best i think im only sowin seed here, but maybe somewhere down the road the seed will sprout.The WORD says all through the book(new and old) its the 10 commandments of God AND the testimony of Jesus Christ. Not one or the other.

It's always such a shame that you don't fully understand the Word wreck n sow.  We too have shown you the scriptures that you can never answer.  I'm not going to keep on showing you either.  

Oh yeah BTW it's spelled choir not quior.  Although I don't think I've heard that being the discription of heaven.

homie, comfirm and fulfil are NOT the same thing you see.  Try to get a grasp on that and so much more will be shown to you.

Hello Wreck,

Wreck might be appropriate, but sow would not. If you are sowing seeds, they are weeds in a cultivated flower bed. If you are spreading something, it would be poison.

Let me offer you a few words of advice. First, when you use the word "Scripture", that is with a big "S", not a little "s". Second, the word which describes a group of singing people is, "choir". Christians who fellowship with their Lord and Saviour 7 days a week do quite a bit of singing, because they are happy.

You deny there will be a Rapture, and you also deny the power and purpose for the crucifixion of our Lord and Saviour. I'm not sure what else you deny, but I'm sure that you deny yourself of the joy and peace that comes from every day fellowship with the Lord and Saviour. Anyone who has ever experienced this joy and fellowship will have no interest in what you have to offer. You place more importance on your own actions than the PERFECT SACRIFICE of JESUS CHRIST. You also deny the GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD. In short, you have nothing to offer or talk about. You either haven't heard the GOOD NEWS, THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD, or you reject it.

When you try to save yourself with your own works or righteousness, you HAVE NONE. Here is the beauty of THE GIFT OF CHRIST ON THE CROSS. Those who have accepted HIM as their personal LORD AND SAVIOUR LIVE IN HIM, WALK WITH HIM, AND HAVE HIM IN THEIR HEARTS 24 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK. Those who reject the GIFT have NOTHING. Those who are vain enough to believe they can save themselves by being good, doing good, obeying the Law, or anything else short of accepting JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE have nothing. Here is the beautiful secret, "JESUS PAID IT ALL, AND ALL TO HIM I OWE." Jesus Christ fulfilled something you COULD NOT, THE LAW. This is the GOOD NEWS, the GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD.

Here is the rest of the secret. This is the ONE GOSPEL, THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD. The Holy Bible is quite blunt in this regard, if one tries to preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed. The GOOD NEWS IS JESUS AND GOD'S GRACE.

blackeyedpeas, I agree with everything you said in your post (except correcting a brother's spelling for the sake of bringing him down, that is "ad hominem", a low form of argumenting). But I was under the understanding that some were claiming that the 10 commandments (or the 9, as I'd like to call them) no longer applied. This I have argumented against, and no one have refuted my arguments. That the 10 commandments still apply is both logical and biblical.

Jesus Christ saved us, died for our sins, right? But if there are no laws (no commandments, thus no sins), what have He saved us from? Why would we need Him? If there are no sins, there are no sinners!

Hi Homie
I dont mind being corrected. In fact its refreshing to have someone here point to something i posted and reply to it. They usually just misdirect by pointing to one of their one liners. Be that as it may i am sorry i spilled choir wrong and i will try to remember its spilling from here on in. I am deeply sorry...kinda

Oklahoma Howdy to Wreck and Homie,

You boys are right, sort of. Some words start with a large letter for terms of respect (i.e. Scripture, Christ, Lord, God, Holy Bible, etc.). Regardless, I'm through discussing the Sabbath. I'll enjoy my rest, peace, joy, and fellowship with our Lord every day, and you can do whatever floats your boat.

DITTO ;D

Great topic. I'm new to the forum, but not new to the issue. I've seen so many people hash and rehash this issue, but the truth is very simply this. When God instituted the Sabbath it wasn't Christian and it wasn't Jewish. It was His, and because it was His, and still is I might add, it applies to all of humanity and not just a small segment.

I've seen the argument posed that Jesus is the Christian's Sabbath, i.e., we just rest in Him everyday. Well, that sounds good, but the problem is it's not biblical. If the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ such that Christians don't have to observe it anymore then the same goes for any of the other commandments God gave. Jesus fulfilled the rest of God's Law too. Does that mean I no longer have to honor my mother and father? Does that mean that I can steal, commit adultery, murder, lie, and anything else that His law addresses? Common sense says no. But Paul said where there is no law there is no sin. If the Law has been done away with, because if we dispose of the Sabbath we must also do the same for the rest of God's Law seeing as how they were given together as a single unit, then there is no longer a need to preach repentance since there is nothing left to tell us what sin is.

It has been said that Jesus never said anything to believers requiring them to observe the Sabbath. Did anyone stop to think that He never told them not to? Jesus clearly said that He didn't come to change the Law. If the Sabbath was no longer meant to be kept Paul would have said so. The fact that he expressed what he did to the Galatians should not be misconstrued to mean that he was telling them they should no longer observe the Sabbath. Why would he tell them to cease from observing something that God had commanded? That would be like saying it's okay to commit adultery now because you no longer have to obey the seventh commandment. Did it ever occur to anyone that the days he was referring to might have something to do with something other than the Sabbath?

It has been also suggested by many, that to continue to observe the Sabbath is to go back under legalism, but I can say the same thing to those who will staunchly say that it is sin to lie, steal, commit adultery, and murder. The transgression of one law is no different than the transgression of another according to James.

I believe the problem lies in the idea that if one were to observe the Sabbath he wouldn't be able to do the things he would like to do, i.e., go shopping, go to the dragstrip, watch his sports on the tube, do his yardwork, and anything else that detracts from what the Sabbath is about. I notice in Scripture that Jesus never once complained about keeping the Sabbath because He kept it in accordance to His Father's will, not His own. It wasn't a burden to Him, but it certainly is to most professing Christians. If Christians were truly following Jesus' example there wouldn't be any complaints at all, but it seems that many Christians feel that Jesus did what He did so we wouldn't have to. What a Laodicean mindset that is. Jesus spoke of self-denial in Luke 9:23. How many professing Christians are actually willing to deny themselves in order to honor what God ordained? Not too many I'm afraid. I guess that's what grace is all about. It affords me the leeway to live the way I want rather than the way God wants. But that isn't really grace, that's a license to sin, which raises the question, what is what the modern day church considers conversion really all about?

Every Law Keeper and Sabbath Keeper I know does NOT need a license to sin, they sin more than most.  ;D

QUOTE: A4C

Every Law Keeper and Sabbath Keeper I know does NOT need a license to sin, they sin more than most.

---------------------------------------------

Amen

Brother Love :)

QUOTE: A4C

Every Law Keeper and Sabbath Keeper I know does NOT need a license to sin, they sin more than most.
Amen
Brother Love

Well Bro love and A4C dont ya think as preachers of the gospel of grace that you should show all these law keepers and sabbath keepers Romans 2 V.11-13. That would show those bad guys a thing or two. They cant just talk how they are supposed to keep Gods ten commandments and they themselves do not. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Thatll show them guys!


ROMANS 2  
[11] For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Thats my Job  ;D

a4c more scripture you can deny

EZEKIEL 20[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

MY Sabbaths- a sign that I the LORD sanctify them

ISAIAH 66[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Fire,whirlwind(Day of the Lord)-could be here soon a4c
They that sanctify themselves-
Shall be consumed , saith the LORD.

youve had your reward ;D

youve had your reward  :)

Yes Saturday is "PIZZA" Day for me and my Family.

A4C What do you do on Saturdays Brother?

Brother Love :)

      I figured out what "Wreck and Sow" must mean:

    He WRECKS the Gospel of Grace and SOWS the Law of Works!

                                                         Paul2 8)
     

Thanks Paul2 ((Brother)) How sad, but how True  ;D

Right On!!

Brother Love :)

For my friend Silver :)

IS SATURDAY THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH?


We know that Saturday was the Jewish Sabbath, being the last day of the week; but is it the Christian Sabbath? Some believe that the Emperor Constantine changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, but that God’s command is still to keep Saturday. Others believe that Christ changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday; therefore we should observe Sunday. Neither of these suppositions is correct. God never changed the sabbath from Saturday to another day. Neither did He give a sabbath day to the Body of Christ to keep. When professing Christians either continued, or began keeping, sabbath days, it was an indication to Paul that they had never under-stood the grace of God and that his labour had been in vain upon them. Listen to his words:

"Ye observe days,—I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain." (Gal. 4:10-11).

"Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Col. 2:16-17.)

A few years before Paul wrote these words, he could have been lawfully stoned to death for such teaching; for according to the law of Moses, a man was to be judged for these very things. But Christ had died and had become the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom. 10:4). Some try to argue that Christ became the end only of the ceremonial law, but that the sabbath along with the other nine commandments is still in effect. This is refuted by the Bible in several ways. First, the Apostle classes "sabbath keeping" with the other ceremonies which were shadows of good things to come, and emphatically denounces the keeping of the legal sabbath. Secondly, although some contend that the sabbath was given to Adam 2500 years before Moses and was therefore not a part of the law, the Bible makes it plain from Exodus 16:29; Ezekiel 20:12: and Nehemiah 9:10-12 that it was not given for man to keep until the law was given to Moses, and hence was one of those things written upon tables of stone which was "done away", "abolished" (II Corinthians 3:7-12). It is plainly stated in Exodus 31 that the sabbath was a sign between Jehovah and the children of Israel (verses 12 to 17). Thirdly, the teaching of Paul as to how the law was put aside is most conclusive. God put the law aside by causing it to judge us, condemn us, and put us to death in the person of a Substitute; so that we "are become dead to the law by the body of Christ," and "the law hath dominion over a man (only) as long as he liveth" (Rom. 7:1-4). It is because we died to the world of sin and of religious practices that we are no longer to be judged by such things (see Colossians 2:20; Galatians 2:20; etc.). The believer is dead, buried and risen with Christ. The sabbath was buried with Christ: Read Colossians 2:14

No one ever enjoyed the true sabbath rest by keeping of a day (Hebrews 4:4-11); for all who do such are working to keep the sabbath day; but it is necessary to cease from all our works, as God did, to have real rest. The sabbath days were a shadow of Christ. He has done all the work, so that we now find our rest in Him. He is our Sabbath. We can now come unto Him and rest. He died under the Law and was in the grave on the sabbath. He arose the Head of a new creation on the first day of the week, and it is for that reason that we, as members of that new creation, meet upon that day to preach the Word. (Acts 20:6, 7; I Corinthians 16:2; etc.).

by Charles F. Baker

Re-Posted By Brother Love :)

<:)))><

Question:

Why would Jesus say this: Mt 24:20 - "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath."
Why would it matter if the Sabbath would be done away with?

Chesed,

It wasn't done away with - it was expanded to 24/7 after the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the CROSS. The work of Jesus Christ was PERFECT AND FINISHED.

Tom

Tom -


If this is the case, then the verse I quoted above doesn't make sense. It is obvious that Jesus is referring to one specific day. He was speaking to His disciples, who were Israelites, and knew that He speaking about the 7th day Sabbath.

~ Chesed

Tom -

You say that the Sabbath became expanded to 24/7 after the cross? Could you please reference a verse for that? Thanx.

Also, the verse I quoted from Matthew 24 where Jesus is telling us to pray that our flight won't be on the Sabbath, Jesus is speaking about the end times. Atleast, that is always how I interpreted it and what I have always been taught about Matt. 24. Do you have a different understanding?

Chesed,

I don't plan to spend much time arguing about the Sabbath. Those answers are already posted in numerous places on the forum.

Here's a hint for you if you don't care to look at a massive amount of information already posted.

#1 Jesus was talking to Jews who were living under Mosaic Law, the Old Covenant.

#2 Jesus had not gone to the CROSS yet, so the New Covenant was NOT in place yet.

#3 What are the commandments of Jesus Christ? List them.

#4 Try to determine what the purpose of the CROSS was.

#5 Try to determine what the effects of the CROSS were and are.

#6 Do a forum search for "Sabbath" and study what you find.
__________________

By the way:

Is there some reason why you have two accounts?

Chesed
oneBook

Tell me about it.

Moderator

Oops :(

Busted! :-[

Dreamweaver and all, I just wanted to vouch for Chesed, I am her husband, she doesn't have 2 accounts (or two personalities
 :) )

That's why we post from the same IP, and why there are 2 separate accounts, and why we agree on so many topics....

Boy is she a beautiful woman....

Of course, how do you know that I really exist, this being the Internet and all....  JK ;D

Regarding your points BEP; even though they were directed to my wife, allow me to answer-

#1 Jesus was talking to Jews who were living under Mosaic Law, the Old Covenant.

The term Old Covenant only appears in one place in the apostolic writing (2 Cor 3:14), and the New Covenent is an reverence from the Prophets (Jer. 31:31).  The Old Covenant is not the first 2/3 of our Bible, but is a reference to people who approach the law without faith as per the 2 Cor. verse above.

#2 Jesus had not gone to the CROSS yet, so the New Covenant was NOT in place yet.

The New Covenant is not fully realized yet, because not every man knows the Lord as specified in Jerimiah.  It is put into effect with Jesus blood, and when accomplished, all people will fulfill the requirements of the Mosaic law because God will write it on their hearts.

#3 What are the commandments of Jesus Christ? List them.

Most of them are outlined in the first 5 books since the law was given by Jesus to Moses.  Remember, Jesus is God.  When He was here, He kept His law perfectly, and told His disciples to follow His example.

#4 Try to determine what the purpose of the CROSS was.

The cross was payment for the sins of those who God choose to save and responded to his call to repentance.

Eph. 1:5-8
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us.


#5 Try to determine what the effects of the CROSS were and are.

My sins are taken away, and God's spirit can then empower me to live up to the standard of His law that I couldn't without faith.

Philippians 2:12-13

12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.


#6 Do a forum search for "Sabbath" and study what you find.

I looked through the site, but didn't find that Sabbath switch to 24/7 verse you were talking about, but I searched my Bible and found a ton of references about the 7th day Sabbath.  One interesting fact I found was that in Greek, the Bible doesn't say Sunday once, but "the first day from the Sabbath".  I thought it was odd that all the days of the week mentioned in the Greek say "from the Sabbath" after them.

Well, here is my test, please tell me how I did

 :)

Chesed and OneBook,

First, I grow weary of argument and debate, especially with another person who may be a Brother or Sister in Christ. Only God knows, certainly not me. For that reason, there are many topics that I don't argue or debate. However, there are some topics that I must contend for, regardless of health, until the day I die. The purpose and meaning of the CROSS is one of those topics. My health is very poor, so you will have to be patient as I prepare a proof just for you, and anyone else who may be reading this thread. I will not be debating each post or arguing over details, but you are more than welcome to post a rebuttal. I just won't answer the rebuttal. I've been a Christian over 50 years and I've heard the law, works, and Sabbath arguments a thousand times. They simply deny the purpose, meaning, and effect of the CROSS. So, please don't be offended that I'm not interested in the arguments. I've studied those arguments a thousand times, and they represent a combination of problems that confuse a large number of people:  (1) God has dealt with Israel specially and apart, and HE is not through dealing with Israel specially and apart; (2) There are many Jews who believe that Jesus Christ is VERY GOD who died on the CROSS, and they would be members of the Church Which is the BODY OF CHRIST. However, the majority of Jews do not believe, and they are not saved. A huge problem involves some people failing to make a distinction between Israel and the Church Which is the BODY OF CHRIST. That leads to massive confusion in Bible Study; (3) Who is the speaker, what is the time, who is the audience, and what is the purpose must also be carefully considered when studying the Bible; (4) Now, the largest consideration - was it before or after the CROSS?

Second, the information on the multiple accounts would have been nice to receive on my first or second request. Husband and wife are most definitely welcome to use Christians Unite. The majority of people with multiple accounts are trolls, here to cause trouble.

Regarding the commandments of Jesus, you weren't even close. Regarding the Sabbath, you are trying to live in another age prior to the CROSS, under the law. Be patient, and I'll give you the proof for that also, even though all of the topics in question are already posted on the forum, ready to read and study.

Law and Grace - Part One

The entire Bible, from cover to cover, is intended for instruction and edification. It is completely correct to say that one can't understand many portions of the Bible at all unless they have studied all of it and have a basic understanding of the entire Bible. That's why many people make a serious error when they isolate certain portions of the Holy Bible, take them out of context, and have no idea what the purpose was and who the intended audience was. This error robs the reader of the most precious TRUTHS in the BIBLE.

As an example of the above, I am not a Jew, but I immensely enjoy portions of the Holy Bible that are directed to Israel or are about Israel. This would obviously include the prophecies of the Holy Bible that are yet to be fulfilled with Israel. Israel, will indeed be the center stage and focus of the entire World. God promised that, and HIS promise will be kept. However, I'm not Israel, nor am I a Jew. I've not lived under the First Covenant or the Second Covenant with Israel. I've lived under the GRACE OF ALMIGHTY GOD, the PERFECT SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS, and JESUS CHRIST as my Lord and Saviour. This does not hint or imply that I ignore the rest of the Holy Bible, just the opposite. One must understand the misery and bondage of mankind to appreciate THE CROSS and the LOVE of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. I can't sufficiently explain this in a series of posts, nor can I study the Holy Bible for you. I can tell you that "RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH" is an absolute must if you wish to understand the MOST PRECIOUS TRUTHS of the Holy Bible. Isolating portions or taking them out of context will simply lead to confusion. Most Study Bibles have references, cross-references, and contrasts that can be and SHOULD BE used, if you really wish to understand what you are reading. Those references, etc., may take you from cover to cover of the Holy Bible, and that SHOULD BE done if you wish to really understand.
____________________ End Part One

While believers observe eternal rest in Christ....however non believing Jews still observe a Sabbath.  Thus all the gates doors, walls etc would be closed, preventing an escape, should that time happen on a Jewish Sabbath.  

Grace and Peace!

OneBook,

I'm having a similar discussion with Silver Surfer and decided there would be no purpose of posting the same posts in two locations. So - please see:

Prophesy - Current Events

     Faith & Works ?

Tom