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Title: Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: RichkCt on June 02, 2005, 07:41:28 PM There are false teachers, apostles, prophets, preachers, clergy and other professions. They deceive in the name of Jesus. Deception isn’t always black and white. People will come as messengers of satan but in the name of Jesus. They will count on the fact that a great deal of God’s children do not know or read Gods word daily and will choose to listen to people who will preach a false message and proclaim it as Jesus’ Gospel.
We have to watch out for books like The Purpose Driven Life by author Rick Warren and books of the like. We have to watchout for media which is written in the name of Jesus and gains so much worldly following . Because in John it says that Jesus came into this world to be the light on the World. The World went to the darkness and comprenhed him NOT. The world isnt going to embrace anything with the truth about Jesus So how can we trust a book written by a man in the name of Jesus that gains so much Worldly acceptance. Fact is we cannot trust it because it is false. Rick Warren isnt in it to spread the truthful Gospel message he is doing it for his own selfish gain. Everyday these false message bearers try and either widen the narrow way to the Kingdom or will lead people astray in the name of Jesus. satan is the angel of light. He will come and tell you that wrong is right, blind you and try and lead you away. Keep the faith and read God’s word. Be prepared. Gain the knowledge and wisdom that only the Word of God can provide. How can these men and women get away with this? Man and women are of the flesh. We are a fallen breed we screwed up from the beginning. Yet we see churches basing they’re sermons on books by men and women (Charismatics, Word Of Faith leaders such as TD-Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Joel Olesteen and the Seeker Sensitive Movement creator Rick Warren, and the Left Behind Author’s who think they know of a better way. They compromise Jesus and what he did sugarcoating the crucifixion and most importantly his Resurrection and HIS Word to gain a bigger congregation and church presence but what truly is happening is a falling away and a leading astray of people from Jesus and HIS Word . We cannot trust the word of men and women because we are flawed. Jesus had to die for us and rise to clean us of our sinfulness. Not the other way around. Jesus is God the Creator, He alone is The Truth, The Way and The Life. Godbless In Christ RIch Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: JudgeNot on June 02, 2005, 09:46:38 PM Okay, I’ll bite.
Pray tell; Specifically, why have you judged Rick Warren, author of The Purpose Driven Life as a deceiving teacher** sinfully unworthy of our readership? ??? Thank you in advance for being specific. ** I'm only guessing that’s where he falls in your categorizations ??? Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: nChrist on June 02, 2005, 11:06:34 PM Rich,
I have the same questions. Christians do buy things other than just the Holy Bible in this country. I might agree with part of your post, but I disagree strongly with other portions, specifically about the Purpose Driven Life. Tom Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: MalkyEL on June 03, 2005, 12:58:08 AM I think the problem is that many Christians assume that when a "Christian" author publishes a book, it automatically is filled with Biblical truth.
The plan of the enemy - masquerading as an angel of light - is to trick or deceive people into another gospel. Jesus said that many false teachers and prophets would deceive people and they would fall away from the faith. He was talking to believers, not to unsaved people. So I ask myself - how is he going to do this? We are bright people [I hope :)] founded on God's Word and we are going to be deceived??? that sounds pretty awful. But then I think about the years I was lost in deception and all the time reading God's Word and realize that we do not hold up these new books to the light of God's Word. We accept these teacher's slant on things because it sounds right - there is an element of truth. The greatest deception is leaving out parts of the Gospel and I think we assume we are to look for additions to it. Perhaps red flags ought to go up when people across all denominational lines jump all over one book like Rick Warren's. I am not sure where we get the idea that unity is all jumping on the same band wagon ??? I have been researching out this new "phenomena" of Rick Warren and there seems to be some major problems with his theology. Part of the problem is his use of 15 different translations. It is admirable of him to be so diverse - but he inserts a specific version's wording to support his teachings and this twists the Gospel. That is only one issue. I hope the links I am providing clears the air a little bit. http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/rick_warren_purpose_driven.htm http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/rick_warren_purpose_driven_2.htm http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/smith-deceived_on_purpose.htm http://www.sacredsandwich.com/purposelie.htm http://www.bibleguidance.co.za/Engarticles/RickWarren.htm shalom, nana Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: Tibby on June 03, 2005, 01:12:58 AM Took the words right out of mouth, Malky.
I know everything it thinking "Tibby's against The Purpose Driven Life? I not even the least be surprised!" ;D But Rick Warren is all about athe same please-everyone/a church is a bunisiness kind of flith that is killing this great faith of ours! I hope God pops him in the jaw and says "What in heaven's name is your problem, boy?" when he gets to heaven! ;D Or he could just ask me to do it for me. ;D Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: MalkyEL on June 03, 2005, 01:52:59 AM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
on the floor - hehehehe ;) Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: nChrist on June 03, 2005, 02:08:17 AM Brothers and Sisters,
Well, I must say that I never cease to be amazed. In my opinion, the critics had to stretch to do their butcher job. It appears that the biggest thing the critics had to hang their hat on was: If it's popular, it must be evil. The critics could assault the Bible in the same manner. Please don't think that I'm hinting of a comparison between the book and the Bible. One is welcome to have any opinion they wish about the critics and their work. In my opinion, it would be baloney. If you think it is fillet mignon, good for you. I certainly won't spend any time arguing this, so I'll leave it with my baloney comment. If I want to read the Gospel, I read the Bible. If I wish to read other literature written by Christian authors, I will do so. If the books I choose don't receive a "thumbs-down" by at least a few critics, I would be disappointed and try harder. :D Love In Christ, Tom Psalms 104:24 O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: MalkyEL on June 03, 2005, 09:04:25 PM I guess I am rather surprised at your response. I had thought that anyone who comprises the Word of God would be anathama.
[quote:] Involvement with the Catholic Church and more similarities Since Warrens policy is to implement church growth without respect to biblical doctrine [28] , it is no wonder that Catholic Churches such as Saint Michael the Archangel Catholic Church in Cary, NC are now enthusiastically joining in the Warren church growth program. The Webpage for this Catholic Church states, Having finished the first 21 days of the book, our growing group decided to push on to the end (so if you've already read parts of the book and weren't able to join us in November, nows the time to hop aboard!) [29] Another example: In the Chicago area, more than 200 churches are participating in 40 Days of Purpose (some used it as a Lenten series). Among them is St. Walters Catholic Church in Roselle which had hoped 100 people would sign up for small home groups for the 40 Days of Purpose program studying Warrens book. Instead, 700 got involved. [30] Warren quotes from Catholic mystic Brother Lawrence, endorsing Catholic contemplative prayer techniques, which he says are helpful ideas. Brother Lawrence was not only traditionally Roman Catholic but also disseminated teachings that have similarities with Hinduism in the Bhagavad-Gita , and with many New Age writers. Warren endorses him and goes on later to recommend breath prayers. He teaches, Many Christians use Breath Prayers throughout their day. You choose a brief sentence, or a simple phrase that can be repeated to Jesus in one breath: You are with me. I receive your grace. Im depending on you. I want to know you. I belong to you. [31] For centuries Catholic mystics have practiced breath prayers such as these. They are simply the Catholic form of old Greek mysticism and akin to the mantras of Hindus. In this same book, Warren cites approvingly the famous Catholic mystic Madame Guyon (p. 193). He approves also of St. John of the Cross (p. 108) and the Catholic priest mystic, psychologist and ecumenist Henri Nouwen (pp. 269- 270). He warmly agrees with Mother Teresa (pp. 125, 231). These misleading techniques are thus propagated and lead further into the whole mystic plague that presently is threatening believers. This plague is the imagination that there is a unity consciousness with God apart from the Person, unique life and sacrifice of Christ Jesus. [32] Warren presents a mystical agenda, which the world loves and accepts, but which is an abomination before the Lord God. [end quote] http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/rick_warren_purpose_driven_2.htm Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: MalkyEL on June 03, 2005, 09:08:39 PM Rick Warren also uses the Message Bible as a Scriptural reference - here is a brief look at the Message Bible as posted on another forum [with permission from the poster]:
Quote What are some of the new age terms mentioned in the Message Bible? Matthew 6:10 LITV - Your kingdom come; Your will be done, as it is in Heaven, also on the earth. MESSAGE - Set the world right; do what's best - AS ABOVE, S0 BELOW 2 Cor.5:14 LITV - For the love of Christ constrains us, having judged this, that if One died for all, then all died; MESSAGE - Christ's love has moved me to such extremes. His love has the first and last word in everything we do. Our firm decision is to work from this FOCUSED CENTER: One man died for everyone. 1 Pet.1:17 LITV - And if you call on the Father, the One judging according to the work of each one without respect of faces pass the time of your sojourning in fear, MESSAGE - Your life is a journey you must travel with a DEEP CONSCIOUSNESS of God. Matt. 17:2 LITV - And He was transfigured before them, and His face shone like the sun, and His clothing became white as the light. MESSAGE - His appearance changed from the INSIDE OUT, right before their eyes Luke 7:16 LITV - And fear took hold of all; and they glorified God, saying, A great prophet has risen up among us; and, God has visited His people. MESSAGE - They all realized they were in a PLACE Of HOLY MYSTERY, that God was at work among them. Matthew 5:44-45 LITV - but I say to you, Love your enemies; bless those cursing you, do well to those hating you; and pray for those abusing and persecuting you, so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. Because He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and unjust. MESSAGE - When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer, for then you are working out of your TRUE SELVES, your God-created selves. Luke 12:2 LITV - But there is nothing which has been completely concealed which will not be uncovered, nor hidden which will not be known. MESSAGE - You can't keep your TRUE SELF hidden forever; before long you'll be exposed. The message uses AS ABOVE SO BELOW. Let's look at some "mystical" groups who use this terminology: MESSAGE - Set the world right; do what's best - AS ABOVE, S0 BELOW www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/a/below_above.html These are some of the many terms that are new age/occultic/psycho babble in origin. Do you think that God wants His Word mixed with the things of the world? This book and others, are the beginning of a scriptural path to the one world religion. If needed, I can show where many of the other terms used originated from as well. Believing that these terms could have been derived from the original Greek texts is the only stretch here. I was also told that "as above, so below" was not an occultic term: from a satanic site: "The Black Altar of Hell resides in The Noctary Chambre, from which The Magic is cast. The Infernal Idol bears four arms - the top left arm points upwards in the Sign of The Horns, assuring Satan's Power and Dominion, and is significant of "As Above" . The top right arm is lowered with hand signifying both the inverse cross {thumb & index} and the other three fingers pointed downwards as a denial of the Trinity of blindlight, and is significant of "So Below" . The lower left hand holds The Black Candle of Lucifer's Infernal Blessings, and the lower right hand grasps the white candle of destruction. The Altar Goddess rests upon the lap of Baphomet in lascivious rapport, intoxicated by the Might of Lucifer's Phallic Lust. The Satanagram is set upon the face of the altar plain, with The Magical weapons positioned in their respective points outlining the proceedings of the Ritual. The Satanagrammaton is displayed decorating the tunic of The Sabbatic Goat, respresentative of The Devil's seal of fulfillment.The Luciferic Black Flame burns intensely from the mind of manifestation, upon a trapezoidal pillar. The Satanic Altar is the dark cosmic powersource by which The Magician works His will upon the universe. From The Black Heart, andfrom the almighty Will to Power. HAIL SATAN." I was then told that Paul used terms that were familiar to the Greek stoicks to relate the Gospel message to them and that this was the same. My reply was: One detail that you failed to mention. Those who penned the original texts in Greek were under the inspiration of God.They did not just decide that the world needed a "new" paraphrase to clear up misconceptions of the scriptures in a plain, terminology modified language. In closing, here is another favorite new age term from the message: MESSAGE - Your life is a journey you must travel with a DEEP CONSCIOUSNESS of God. from a site that promotes shamans [spiritism]: "The journey is then shared with the mentor following the drumming, who uses the symbols to initiate a CRP journey in the same fashion as he would dream images.It is important that the mentor realize that the images are formed, as are dream images and stories, by the deep conciousness patterns and dynamics that shape the mentored, both physically and mentally. In this way the completion of the drumming is just the first step in a CRP journey, just as the dream provides the opening or doorway for a dream journey. This too sets the CRP drummer apart from more traditional views which require the shaman or to give meaning or interpret the symbols or story encountered. Rather the mentor uses the imagery to explore the deep conciousness structures that gave rise to the symbols." [end quote] Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: cris on June 03, 2005, 10:15:36 PM Matthew 7 vs 1 thru 6 l. Do not judge lest you be judged. 2. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3. And why do you look at the speck that is in your brothers eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4. Or, how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 5. "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. 6. Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: nChrist on June 03, 2005, 10:41:05 PM Sister Nancy,
I simply don't buy the hatchet job of the critics, and I'll leave it at that. Love In Christ, Tom Psalms 73:26 My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: cris on June 03, 2005, 10:53:42 PM Sister Nancy, I simply don't buy the hatchet job of the critics, and I'll leave it at that. Love In Christ, Tom Psalms 73:26 My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever. AMEN Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: MalkyEL on June 04, 2005, 12:16:02 AM A friend once said this to me when God sent him in after me, because I was caught deep in deception - now I am also contending for the faith once given to the saints, just as I have been taught and called to do:
"I am not here to slander anyone. I am the watchman on the wall. If I see what appears to be an enemy and feel that I know the intent ... and do nothing ... then the blood is on my hands ... I have too much heart for that and love people too much to allow that to happen. I may take criticism, but so did the One that I serve under ... the Mighty Lion of Judah. Do not believe anything I say. Prove all things to yourself. Faith is built upon sound belief through Scriptural knowledge. His Word is like pure silver forged in the fire seven times, and it does not come back void." Compare the book to the Word of God and see for youself. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: Bronzesnake on June 04, 2005, 05:36:50 AM Matthew 7 vs 1 thru 6 l. Do not judge lest you be judged. 2. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3. And why do you look at the speck that is in your brothers eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4. Or, how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 5. "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. 6. Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. Very relevent for this thread my friend...Amen. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: RichkCt on June 09, 2005, 02:28:52 PM The defense of Rick Warren in this thread certainly isn’t surprising or shocking. The truth of the matter is Rick Warren twists scripture to suit his deceptive agenda. Rick Warren perverts the Word of God and takes that perversion and makes it his own and speaks of a false gospel and proclaims the gospel according to Rick Warren. Then tells people Jesus wants him to do this and Jesus wants him to be the type of man he is. I have some news for ya Rick, Jesus isn’t the one telling you its ok to do what you’re doing your falling right into the hands of satan and doing it very willingly I might add. Jesus tells us that his Word is sufficient and not to add to or take away from it and to certainly not copy and paste God’s word and place it out of context in a book to support a heretic agenda.
It seems the general thought among many Christian is that deception is going to be black and white meaning deception is going to be blatantly be of obvious evil meaning direct evil. Let me clarify this. Some think that deception will come out of the tongues of unbelievers as a statement such as God isn’t real or you follow a false God or a myth. The type of deception that will win over more Christians is the type of deception Jesus talks about when he says that man false teachers, prophets, and other professionals will come and deceive in my name. These false message bearers will acknowledge Christ. However will count on the fact once again that some of you do not read the Bible and do not have a recommended level of relationship with Jesus. Christians who do not strive or recognize the truth will be led astray. Its happening now its been happening for sometime now and will continue to increase. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: Bronzesnake on June 09, 2005, 04:52:33 PM Anyone can accuse people of anything Rick.
In a court of law, you would have to present evidence for such a claim. Perhaps if you did this, and gave specific examples of Warren's scripture twisting, people might be more willing to listen to you. Do you believe the warning at the end of revelation refers to any Christian outside of the Bible? If so, you have seriously misunderstood the warning. It was given in order to keep His word -the Holy Bible - from being corrupted. The NWT is one example of a blatant infraction against the warning, there are other false bibles which people claim are the word of God - the Koran _ is another. There are many fantastic Christian authors who have made it possible for many millions of people to gain a deeper understanding of the word of God. It's no different than a pastor or minister, for example, who tech people the meaning and messages of God's word. I know there are also false teachings and misinterpratations to be found in books. Some intentionally change God's word in order to fit in with the specific cult they happen to be involved with, and yet, other's may have made honest mistakes. There is also the reader to consider. Some people misunderstand the texts they are reading and come to false conclusions about the book and author. You'll have to be very specific about your claims. Take care my friend. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: RichkCt on June 09, 2005, 06:20:42 PM http://www.souldevice.org/crit_purpose_driven_church.html
Some examples here. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: Bronzesnake on June 10, 2005, 12:35:29 AM http://www.souldevice.org/crit_purpose_driven_church.html Some examples here. Nik picking my friend. The person responsible for that critique comes across as petty and jealous. The way you came across, I expected to see some real meat and bones problems, but all I see is nit picking. Sorry, I can't go along on this one my friend, there's far more serious issues in relation to the Word of God than this. Why not do battle against the real frauds such as the NWT? Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: kdr22 on June 10, 2005, 06:51:07 PM Hi All!
I was just reading through this thread and would like to share a couple of thoughts... I am a lot more cautious about various books published under the Christian genre banner than I used to be. You see, as a recovered alcoholic/addict, early in my recovery I got caught up in the binding/loosening taught in the Neil T Anderson books The Bondage Breaker and Victory over the Darkness. I was about half way through The Bondage Breaker when (I believe) the Spirit of Holiness led me to this page on the Internet: The Bondage Maker - Topical Index - Anderson, Neil T. (http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2901071/k.3010/Topical_Index__Anderson_Neil_T.htm). After reading the article, I was amazed at how easily I had been drawn in and caught up in the false teaching! That experience really opened my eyes. However, some lessons are soon forgotten and it wasn't long until I was promoting the 40-Days of Purpose curriculum to my then pastor. Not long afterwards, I was once again (I believe) led by the Spirit of Holiness to a web page that brought out some facts, much like the the one about the Neil T. Anderson books did. When the Prayer of Jabez and the Wild at Heart books came out, I was sorely tempted to jump on the band wagon and gobble them up as well. But by then the lesson was beginning to sink in. So instead of running out and obtaining a copy of the books (when they came out), I prayed about them and waited on God. I am so glad I did! I watched other people who highly touted these books - people whom I knew up close and personal - to see if their walk with God deepened and/or if their life changed at all. I was unable to notice any perceivable change in their life. They were the same after reading the books and participating in the small groups, as they were prior to doing so. Again, I was led to some web sites that examined the respective author's teaching with Scripture, and again I was saddened by the truth of the distortions and heresy contained within the teachings of the respective books. Please understand, I'm not saying that lives were not changed by people who read the books. I'm saying that I fear the false and/or misleading teachings contained within such popular books may being doing more harm than good. However, I know that God can and does use anything to His glory. So I do not concern myself with those who are caught up in the latest popular teaching to come out. Instead, I pray for guidance as concerns my walk with God in Christ, and praise Him for His many blessings. I think sometimes, many of us who have placed our faith in Christ, spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to do things FOR God, thinking we are being good Christian Soldiers. I sincerely believe that God would much rather have us doing things WITH Him, rather than FOR Him. I would encourage all if us who claim Christ as our Lord and Master to spend less time finding fault within the body of Christ and more time building up the body of Christ. I sincerely believe that is God's will for us. Don't you? Read Ephesians 4 and pray about it. Okay? Thank you for your time and prayerful consideration of my comments. Karl [Edited to update URL link] Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: cris on June 10, 2005, 07:24:07 PM Hi All! I was just reading through this thread and would like to share a couple of thoughts... I am a lot more cautious about various books published under the Christian genre banner than I used to be. You see, as a recovered alcoholic/addict, early in my recovery I got caught up in the binding/loosening taught in the Neil T Anderson books The Bondage Breaker and Victory over the Darkness. I was about half way through The Bondage Breaker when (I believe) the Spirit of Holiness led me to this page on the Internet: The Bondage Maker - http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm (http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm). After reading the article, I was amazed at how easily I had been drawn in and caught up in the false teaching! That experience really opened my eyes. However, some lessons are soon forgotten and it wasn't long until I was promoting the 40-Days of Purpose curriculum to my then pastor. Not long afterwards, I was once again (I believe) led by the Spirit of Holiness to a web page that brought out some facts, much like the the one about the Neil T. Anderson books did. When the Prayer of Jabez and the Wild at Heart books came out, I was sorely tempted to jump on the band wagon and gobble them up as well. But by then the lesson was beginning to sink in. So instead of running out and obtaining a copy of the books (when they came out), I prayed about them and waited on God. I am so glad I did! I watched other people who highly touted these books - people whom I knew up close and personal - to see if their walk with God deepened and/or if their life changed at all. I was unable to notice any perceivable change in their life. They were the same after reading the books and participating in the small groups, as they were prior to doing so. Again, I was led to some web sites that examined the respective author's teaching with Scripture, and again I was saddened by the truth of the distortions and heresy contained within the teachings of the respective books. Please understand, I'm not saying that lives were not changed by people who read the books. I'm saying that I fear the false and/or misleading teachings contained within such popular books may being doing more harm than good. However, I know that God can and does use anything to His glory. So I do not concern myself with those who are caught up in the latest popular teaching to come out. Instead, I pray for guidance as concerns my walk with God in Christ, and praise Him for His many blessings. I think sometimes, many of us who have placed our faith in Christ, spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to do things FOR God, thinking we are being good Christian Soldiers. I sincerely believe that God would much rather have us doing things WITH Him, rather than FOR Him. I would encourage all if us who claim Christ as our Lord and Master to spend less time finding fault within the body of Christ and more time building up the body of Christ. I sincerely believe that is God's will for us. Don't you? Read Ephesians 4 and pray about it. Okay? Thank you for your time and prayerful consideration of my comments. Karl I just read Ephesians 4. 29 thru 32 popped out at me. "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." IMO, this says it all. If these Christian writers are not against God, then they are for God. Didn't Jesus respond to His own disciples in this same way when they questioned what others were doing? Grace and peace, cris Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: Bronzesnake on June 10, 2005, 08:10:01 PM Hi All! I was just reading through this thread and would like to share a couple of thoughts... I am a lot more cautious about various books published under the Christian genre banner than I used to be. You see, as a recovered alcoholic/addict, early in my recovery I got caught up in the binding/loosening taught in the Neil T Anderson books The Bondage Breaker and Victory over the Darkness. I was about half way through The Bondage Breaker when (I believe) the Spirit of Holiness led me to this page on the Internet: The Bondage Maker - http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm (http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm). After reading the article, I was amazed at how easily I had been drawn in and caught up in the false teaching! That experience really opened my eyes. However, some lessons are soon forgotten and it wasn't long until I was promoting the 40-Days of Purpose curriculum to my then pastor. Not long afterwards, I was once again (I believe) led by the Spirit of Holiness to a web page that brought out some facts, much like the the one about the Neil T. Anderson books did. When the Prayer of Jabez and the Wild at Heart books came out, I was sorely tempted to jump on the band wagon and gobble them up as well. But by then the lesson was beginning to sink in. So instead of running out and obtaining a copy of the books (when they came out), I prayed about them and waited on God. I am so glad I did! I watched other people who highly touted these books - people whom I knew up close and personal - to see if their walk with God deepened and/or if their life changed at all. I was unable to notice any perceivable change in their life. They were the same after reading the books and participating in the small groups, as they were prior to doing so. Again, I was led to some web sites that examined the respective author's teaching with Scripture, and again I was saddened by the truth of the distortions and heresy contained within the teachings of the respective books. Please understand, I'm not saying that lives were not changed by people who read the books. I'm saying that I fear the false and/or misleading teachings contained within such popular books may being doing more harm than good. However, I know that God can and does use anything to His glory. So I do not concern myself with those who are caught up in the latest popular teaching to come out. Instead, I pray for guidance as concerns my walk with God in Christ, and praise Him for His many blessings. I think sometimes, many of us who have placed our faith in Christ, spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to do things FOR God, thinking we are being good Christian Soldiers. I sincerely believe that God would much rather have us doing things WITH Him, rather than FOR Him. I would encourage all if us who claim Christ as our Lord and Master to spend less time finding fault within the body of Christ and more time building up the body of Christ. I sincerely believe that is God's will for us. Don't you? Read Ephesians 4 and pray about it. Okay? Thank you for your time and prayerful consideration of my comments. Karl I just read Ephesians 4. 29 thru 32 popped out at me. "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." IMO, this says it all. If these Christian writers are not against God, then they are for God. Didn't Jesus respond to His own disciples in this same way when they questioned what others were doing? Grace and peace, cris Well stated Cris. By the way, I have sent you several PM's, I don't know if you have received any of them. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: cris on June 10, 2005, 08:14:00 PM Bronze, Any that you sent me, I replied back to you. Did you receive my replies? I can't remember exactly, but I asked you a few questions that you haven't answered. Grace and peace, cris Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: Bronzesnake on June 10, 2005, 08:50:41 PM Bronze, Any that you sent me, I replied back to you. Did you receive my replies? I can't remember exactly, but I asked you a few questions that you haven't answered. Grace and peace, cris I have replied to everything I received from you cris. I think there's a problem with the PM system, and I believe it's being worked on. I'll let you know as I find out. In the meantime my web site has a "contact us" icon where you will be able to e-mail me directly to my site e-mail until this problem gets sorted out. I know you have had problems viewing the site, and I did PM you a few suggestions. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: cris on June 10, 2005, 08:55:55 PM Bronze, Any that you sent me, I replied back to you. Did you receive my replies? I can't remember exactly, but I asked you a few questions that you haven't answered. Grace and peace, cris I have replied to everything I received from you cris. I think there's a problem with the PM system, and I believe it's being worked on. I'll let you know as I find out. In the meantime my web site has a "contact us" icon where you will be able to e-mail me directly to my site e-mail until this problem gets sorted out. I know you have had problems viewing the site, and I did PM you a few suggestions. I was just over there (your site) when you and PR left. I was able to view by clicking on the double arrows but it didn't help with the page still being too wide for my screen. I've received no IM's from you. In fact, I'll go back and see what the date of the last IM was that I received. Grace and peace, cris Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: cris on June 10, 2005, 09:01:11 PM Bronze,
Last IM I received was on June 7th and it was from you. I just sent myself an IM and had no trouble receiving it. ;D It looks as if the trouble is on your side. Grace and peace, cris Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: Reba on June 10, 2005, 11:33:06 PM Hi All! I was just reading through this thread and would like to share a couple of thoughts... I am a lot more cautious about various books published under the Christian genre banner than I used to be. You see, as a recovered alcoholic/addict, early in my recovery I got caught up in the binding/loosening taught in the Neil T Anderson books The Bondage Breaker and Victory over the Darkness. I was about half way through The Bondage Breaker when (I believe) the Spirit of Holiness led me to this page on the Internet: The Bondage Maker - http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm (http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm). After reading the article, I was amazed at how easily I had been drawn in and caught up in the false teaching! That experience really opened my eyes. However, some lessons are soon forgotten and it wasn't long until I was promoting the 40-Days of Purpose curriculum to my then pastor. Not long afterwards, I was once again (I believe) led by the Spirit of Holiness to a web page that brought out some facts, much like the the one about the Neil T. Anderson books did. When the Prayer of Jabez and the Wild at Heart books came out, I was sorely tempted to jump on the band wagon and gobble them up as well. But by then the lesson was beginning to sink in. So instead of running out and obtaining a copy of the books (when they came out), I prayed about them and waited on God. I am so glad I did! I watched other people who highly touted these books - people whom I knew up close and personal - to see if their walk with God deepened and/or if their life changed at all. I was unable to notice any perceivable change in their life. They were the same after reading the books and participating in the small groups, as they were prior to doing so. Again, I was led to some web sites that examined the respective author's teaching with Scripture, and again I was saddened by the truth of the distortions and heresy contained within the teachings of the respective books. Please understand, I'm not saying that lives were not changed by people who read the books. I'm saying that I fear the false and/or misleading teachings contained within such popular books may being doing more harm than good. However, I know that God can and does use anything to His glory. So I do not concern myself with those who are caught up in the latest popular teaching to come out. Instead, I pray for guidance as concerns my walk with God in Christ, and praise Him for His many blessings. I think sometimes, many of us who have placed our faith in Christ, spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to do things FOR God, thinking we are being good Christian Soldiers. I sincerely believe that God would much rather have us doing things WITH Him, rather than FOR Him. I would encourage all if us who claim Christ as our Lord and Master to spend less time finding fault within the body of Christ and more time building up the body of Christ. I sincerely believe that is God's will for us. Don't you? Read Ephesians 4 and pray about it. Okay? Thank you for your time and prayerful consideration of my comments. Karl Nicely said on a touchy subject. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: Bronzesnake on June 11, 2005, 03:57:03 AM Look, God created us with a brain right?
We don't have to fear these books. We can look at them and see if they are Christian, or perhaps they are of a cult nature. This book is just fine unless you are nit picking. Remember also, that we are up against an enemy that hates anything which leads us to live Godly lives, or helps us to fight sin in our lives. He will attack books like this, even through Christians. If a seemingly faithful Christian makes critical remarks against a book such as this one, others may tend to judge the book without even reading it, because we tend to trust our Christian brothers and sisters. I wonder how many of the critics have honestly, actually read the book. The trouble is that sometimes it's an unlearned, or even an unbalanced Christian who starts such rumours, and it gets passed along through a long line of faithful, balanced Christians, and the damage is done. Read the book; look at the points that are criticized in that web site. There's nothing of any substance there. If you are happy to take someone else’s word for it, then you do it at your own peril, because what I see happening here is an unwarranted attack on a Christian book. It's akin to ruining a person's reputation through gossip. Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: kdr22 on June 11, 2005, 12:38:01 PM Title: Re:Jesus and his Word are the Answer Post by: RichkCt on June 15, 2005, 03:51:18 PM Hi All! I was just reading through this thread and would like to share a couple of thoughts... I am a lot more cautious about various books published under the Christian genre banner than I used to be. You see, as a recovered alcoholic/addict, early in my recovery I got caught up in the binding/loosening taught in the Neil T Anderson books The Bondage Breaker and Victory over the Darkness. I was about half way through The Bondage Breaker when (I believe) the Spirit of Holiness led me to this page on the Internet: The Bondage Maker - http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm (http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm). After reading the article, I was amazed at how easily I had been drawn in and caught up in the false teaching! That experience really opened my eyes. However, some lessons are soon forgotten and it wasn't long until I was promoting the 40-Days of Purpose curriculum to my then pastor. Not long afterwards, I was once again (I believe) led by the Spirit of Holiness to a web page that brought out some facts, much like the the one about the Neil T. Anderson books did. When the Prayer of Jabez and the Wild at Heart books came out, I was sorely tempted to jump on the band wagon and gobble them up as well. But by then the lesson was beginning to sink in. So instead of running out and obtaining a copy of the books (when they came out), I prayed about them and waited on God. I am so glad I did! I watched other people who highly touted these books - people whom I knew up close and personal - to see if their walk with God deepened and/or if their life changed at all. I was unable to notice any perceivable change in their life. They were the same after reading the books and participating in the small groups, as they were prior to doing so. Again, I was led to some web sites that examined the respective author's teaching with Scripture, and again I was saddened by the truth of the distortions and heresy contained within the teachings of the respective books. Please understand, I'm not saying that lives were not changed by people who read the books. I'm saying that I fear the false and/or misleading teachings contained within such popular books may being doing more harm than good. However, I know that God can and does use anything to His glory. So I do not concern myself with those who are caught up in the latest popular teaching to come out. Instead, I pray for guidance as concerns my walk with God in Christ, and praise Him for His many blessings. I think sometimes, many of us who have placed our faith in Christ, spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to do things FOR God, thinking we are being good Christian Soldiers. I sincerely believe that God would much rather have us doing things WITH Him, rather than FOR Him. I would encourage all if us who claim Christ as our Lord and Master to spend less time finding fault within the body of Christ and more time building up the body of Christ. I sincerely believe that is God's will for us. Don't you? Read Ephesians 4 and pray about it. Okay? Thank you for your time and prayerful consideration of my comments. Karl I just read Ephesians 4. 29 thru 32 popped out at me. "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." IMO, this says it all. If these Christian writers are not against God, then they are for God. Didn't Jesus respond to His own disciples in this same way when they questioned what others were doing? Grace and peace, cris What amazes me is that even when presented with truth right from the Bible and then put alongside the lies, to compare. There are still some Christians that will defend the heretic, fanscinating! |