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Now answer this very carefully!  The man Christ Jesus, said ...my father is greater than I...

Joh 14:28  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: (for my Father is greater than I).


Joh 5:36  But I have greater witness than [that] of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, (that the Father hath sent me).


Joh 16:28  (I came forth from the Father), and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, *and go to the Father*.


Eph 1:17  That the (God *of* our Lord Jesus Christ), the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and (revelation) in the knowledge of him:


Col 3:17  And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father *by* him.


1Th 1:1  Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, *and* the Lord Jesus Christ.


2Th 2:16  Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, *and* God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,


1Th 1:1  Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.


2Ti 1:2  To Timothy, [my] dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father *and *Christ Jesus our Lord.


Phm 1:3  Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father *and* the Lord Jesus Christ.


1Pe 1:3  Blessed [be] the God and Father (of) our Lord Jesus Christ,


2Pe 1:17  For (he) received from (God the Father) honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, *This is my beloved Son*, in whom I am well pleased.


1Jo 1:3  That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the (Father, *and* with his Son Jesus Christ).


1Jo 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, *that denieth the Father and the Son*.


1Jo 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].


1Jo 2:24  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the (Son, *and* in the Father).


1Jo 4:14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father *sent the Son* to be the Saviour of the world.


1Jo 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


2Jo 1:3  Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the (Son of the Father), in truth and love.


2Jo 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath *both* the( Father _and _the Son).


Jud 1:1  Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by (God the Father), *and* preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Rev 3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my (Father) in his throne.

Rev 14:1  And I looked, and, lo, a (Lamb)stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having (his- Father's) name written in their foreheads.

Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my ( Father).

Rev 3:5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name (before my Father), and before his angels.

Rev 3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with *me* in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with (my Father) in *his* throne.

Ok lets see how we deal with this...dont forget this is a mystery...in the end i will show you undeniable proof that God the Son... is not, God the Father.

God bless

Brother AJ,

Colossians 2:8-10  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Revelation 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1 Timothy 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1st Timothy 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 John 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:8  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Is JESUS GOD?  YES!

Is the HOLY SPIRIT GOD?  YES!

Is GOD THE FATHER GOD?  YES!

The THREE ARE ONE!

There is another interesting question that should be asked that addresses this same issue:

Is JESUS the LORD?  YES!

Now, look at all the references that name the LORD.

Here is yet one more question of many more that addresses this same issue:

Who is the WORD?  JESUS CHRIST!

Just one more question for now:

Who is the GODHEAD?  God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - The THREE ARE ONE - ALMIGHTY GOD!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

AMEN AMEN AMEN    ;D

 Question:
      Who raised Jesus from the dead?

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
 
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 
Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
 
John 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.  18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

shalom, nana

Totally agree brother...now read this, im refering to the man christ jesus, who was (given) ALL POWER, till the father puts all things under his feet...then the man christ jesus, the Son of God...will be subject unto the father, so God can be All in All.

1Co 15:24  Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

If its good enough for Paul... its good enough for me.

God bless you brother

Brother AJ,

I think that you are talking about the earthly life, role, and purpose of Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh. If so, I understand exactly what you are talking about. Jesus, Very God, humbled Himself beyond measure and gave Himself on the Cross for us all. He was obedient to His own purpose and that purpose was formed before the foundation of the world. The world would be a horrible place in the absence of the CROSS, the most precious event in human history.

The world wanted signs and wonders for evidence to believe, and JESUS provided that in abundance. He was true and faithful to His purpose, even unto death. His words in His earthly ministry were also true to His purpose. He had to give Himself willingly, as no man or army could have taken Him. Many confuse His humble way and words to mean that He couldn't have been God. He showed victory, even in death, and arose from the dead. There is a drastic comparison between the nature Jesus showed to men versus His might, power, and majesty that was HIS also.

If I understand your post correctly now, you are addressing this comparison.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 4:14  But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Hi brother Tom :)

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself  be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


Here is a few more translations just for reference...


(ASV)  And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

(BBE)  And when all things have been put under him, then will the Son himself be under him who put all things under him, so that God may be all in all.

(CEV)  After everything is under the power of God's Son, he will put himself under the power of God, who put everything under his Son's power. Then God will mean everything to everyone.




I cant say much more on this brother...if Paul did'nt know the difference between God the Son, and God the Father...who can know the difference? I mean its not me who said this, its Paul. And Paul is saying here, that the Son will be under obedience to the Father...when its all said and done. (ie) New Heaven new Earth.... How can the Father be under obedience to the Father?

God bless you brother

Brother AJ,

Maybe this is an issue of semantics. If not, we will simply have to agree to disagree. The Word was and is God. There is only one Almighty God, and Jesus is Him, but so is God the Holy Spirit and God the Father. Regardless, I don't argue semantics, so I'll leave it at that. We agree that the Three are One and Jesus is God, so that's more than sufficient for me.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Amen brother...we will have to agree to disagree :) Just remember...

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

God bless

Hey guys.

H2O exists in three forms: water, steam, and ice (liquid, gas, solid). Is water steam? No, but water is H2O and steam is H2O in different forms. Is steam ice? No, but steam is H2O and ice is H2O.

You see, this is the same situation here. The Son Jesus Christ is not the Father in the sense that ice is not water. However water and ice are the same things in different forms. Just as the son Jesus Christ and the Father are God.


AJ, is that what you are trying to say? Brother, you shouldnt be afraid to fully assert what you want to tell us. It becomes very vague and useless if you are holding things back.

  I am a father - a son - and a grandfather!  :D
I am no less a son than I am a father and no less a father than I am a grandfather.

1x1x1=1 not 1+1+1
 
Does that simplify it for ya AJ?

Bronzesnake

Hey bro,

Maybe AJ is trying to say that the son Jesus Christ is not God the Father in the sense that ice is not water. We can at the same time say water, ice, and steam are different but all are the same thing. Water, ice and steam IS H2O. The Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit IS God. But water is not the same as ice. So the Son is not the same as the Father.

Or we can consider what you proposed John, a person can be a son, father, and grandfather. Different labels for the same person. That explains the trinity well. Yet again, maybe AJ is saying there are different roles for each label.

I think a better question here is "IN WHAT SENSE, is(or is not) the son, Jesus Christ, the Father? "

Interesting topic brothers, but I would like to know the purpose. What say you AJ?  ;)

Does'nt matter what i say brother...its not me who is saying the Son Jesus Christ, is not God the Father. Its Paul the Apostle...debaters will have to wait, and take it up with Paul.. if we cant see this, then we just dont see.

Once more...

1Co 15:24  Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God bless you all

I don't see the purpose of arguing such semantics here my friend. Jesus is in fact God.

 My son doesn't call me grandpa, my grandson doesn't call me son, and my father doesn't call me dad - However, I am still John.

To look upon the face of the Father God is instant death. Therefore He comes to us in human form as Jesus. He is God in all three forms.

Bronzesnake

Jesus Christ himself said that we are his brothers and sisters and that God is the father:

Mat 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mat 23:9  And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


Yet at the same time Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one and the same.

This has been a very hard thing for the human mind to comprehend but then the human mind has not been able to fathom many other things such as the human body or the workings of the universe and God is greater yet than these.

Me thinks it would be easier to sit down and teach a fly algebra  :D

We probably will not fully understand it this side of heaven.  How mysterious and wonderful is the Lord?

Honestly, I don't have the least bit of trouble with it. I think we can tend to over complicate the Trinity. I'm in no way saying we can even come a billion x a kazillion miles away from understanding God - but the Trinity is really a very simple reality. The three are one. Each aspect of God has very specific tasks (if you will) which are perfectly performed and completed through each incarnation, and ultimately by the whole.

Bronzesnake

Brothers and Sisters,

Most of you know that I don't believe in coincidence. Something amazing just jumped off the page and hit me between the eyes, and I have to share it. For my part, I simply want to say that the language of man is insufficient to describe the absolute Grace, Love, Mercy, Might, and Majesty of God - our Lord and Saviour.

In reading the following message, I couldn't help but reflect on how wonderful it is to pray and know that God wants to hear our prayers. Over 2,000 years ago, mankind needed a Levitical priest to intercede and pray for them. Part of the Good News is that we can pray any time we wish. This is a reminder about what reverence we should have when we pray. It's also a reminder to give thanks that the King of Kings and Lord of Lords has allowed us to come into His presence, walk with Him, talk with Him, and have the Holy Spirit living in our hearts. We probably wouldn't be able to get an audience or an appointment with the Governor of our State, but our LORD and KING will allow us to approach HIS Throne of Grace and Mercy 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Please notice the date and you will see why I felt this was no coincidence and had to share it.
_____________________

May 2

THE FIRST LESSON

"When ye pray, say 'Father'."-- Luk_11:2.

HEAVEN IS "the Father's House." It is our Home. We are strangers and sojourners here, and on our way home. What fascination is in the word! Home will draw the sailor, soldier, explorer, prodigal from the ends of the earth. God has given to most of us the dear memory of what Home is, that we may guess at what awaits us and be smitten with home-sickness. "Blessed are the home-sick, for they shall reach home!"

But the charm of Heaven will be the manifested presence of our Father. All doubts and misunderstandings will be dissipated. We shall know and see, as we are seen and known. In the closing verses of Jude we are told that we shall be set before the presence of His glory, without blemish and in exceeding joy. It is as though our Saviour will introduce us to the manifested presence of the Father.

But we need not wait till then. If we know our Lord, we know the Father. It troubled Christ that His disciples had been so long with Him in familiar intercourse and yet had not realized that the beauty and holiness which shone from His nature were beams of the Father's character. To have Jesus is to have the Father. To know Jesus is to know the Father. To pray to Him is to pray to God, for He is God manifest in the flesh. He is not simply an incarnation of God, in the sense of the old Greek mythology, adopting a cloak or disguise which was afterwards cast off. God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.

There must be reverence in our prayer. God is in heaven and we upon the earth. We must not rush unceremoniously into His presence, as though it were a common and too-familiar room, where ceremony and respect are laid aside. There should be the constant remembrance that in prayer we stand in the presence-chamber of the great Creator, Preserver, and Ruler of the Universe. We wipe our shoes and remove our hats when we enter the home of our friend; let us not forget our manners in the opening sentences of prayer. Angels veil their faces and cry "Holy!"

But there may be a blessed faith and trust when we pray. The Father of Jesus awaits us. He ascended to His Father and our Father. We pray to One who loves us in His Beloved Son with an everlasting love, and holds out the golden sceptre towards us.

PRAYER

I adore Thee, Heavenly Father! There is no limit to Thy power, or to Thy love. Thou art greatly to be praised! Thou art greatly to be loved! Accept the homage of my soul and life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. AMEN.

_______________________

Written by F. B. Meyer

The F. B. Meyer devotions are distributed freely and Internationally in the excellent freeware Bible Study package called e-Sword. You can also subscribe to Day-By-Day By Grace at the above link for Living In Christ Ministries.

You can obtain e-Sword at:
http://www.e-sword.net/downloads.html
Author: Rick Meyer
(The goal of Rick Meyer is to freely distribute Bibles to every country on earth in their own language, and that goal gets closer by the day. Thanks to countless Christian individuals and organizations with big hearts, many excellent Bible Study tools are also being freely distributed with e-Sword around the world.)

AMEN BEP AMEN!!! :D

Bronzesnake

Amen.

AMEN BEEPS!!

Your post of, says it all. :)

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Bob

Hey Tom. That is no coincidence at all. You know something? It was exactly that...
that lead me to post my thoughts here.

Sometimes I pray first to Lord Jesus Christ and sometimes it's Father. So I wasnt sure which was right. That's why I found Is the Son...Jesus the Christ, the Father to be interesting as I treat it that way sometimes. This goes back to what was stated earlier. Same person different role (grandpa, dad, son)...different forms same thing (water, ice, gas).

Just to make sure I understand. Is it ok to start out, "Lord Jesus"? Or should it be "Father".

thanks

Brother Felix,

Prayers from the heart usually involve both. "Father" is a term of reverence and respect. I certainly have that for our LORD. Brother, I would simply say to pray from the heart. The Holy Spirit also helps us when we pray, even when we don't have words to express our real needs. JESUS is The Christ, our Lord and Saviour and is also a term of respect and reverence. In reflection on my own prayers, I usually use several precious names. Brother, please let the Holy Spirit in your heart be your guide for prayer. I personally feel led to end most of my prayers with something like, "We ask these things in the precious name of Jesus."

Brother, it is interesting to note that prayers from the heart also involve God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Prayer is a beautiful and precious subject. Again, I give thanks that our Heavenly Father allows us into His presence with prayer. I am reflecting on being a lowly servant, yet being able to approach the Majestic Throne of HIS Grace, Love, and Mercy 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 1:12-14  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself. And we have the word of reconciliation. :)

2Co 5:19  To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


2Co 5:18  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Heb 2:17  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The Lord of Lords and King of Kings is Coming...glory to God.


God Bless Brothers and Sisters

Hey bro,

That's why I usually start out with "Lord Jesus" so my spirit can start exercising. No one speaking by the Spirit of God can say "Jesus be cursed" and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit (1 cor 12:3).

However, while Jesus was on earth He refered to asking the Father for all things. The Father gives us things and it will be done in the name of the Son Jesus Christ. Yet both are the one God. I am still unsure.

But I will take heart to let the Holy Spirit intercede in prayer on my behalf. I will call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I think this says it all:

Mat 6:5  And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:6  But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:7  But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8  Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Mat 6:9  After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10  Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.


Eph 5:20  Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;