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Several years ago State Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore placed an engraved, stone monument of the Ten Commandments, weighing 5000 pouinds, in the Alabama Judicial Building.

Several groups, including the ACLU, have sued.  The case is now on appeal in the federal appeals courts.  It has taken much money to continue the fight.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33417

Chief Justice Roy Moore, as quoted in the above article:

 "Tragically, as in the days of the Roman Empire, we too have become accustomed to 'bread and circuses,'" writes Moore. "With our stomachs full and our minds preoccupied with the pleasures of this world, we fail to seriously ponder the reason for the tragedies that are regularly occurring before our very eyes. We rarely contemplate the significance of the judiciary's usurpation of power and suppression of religious liberty. When and if we do, we are too often afraid to take a stand – ashamed of our faith in God, afraid to hazard the notion of putting God back into the public square."

What do you think?  Should we as Christians be doing this?  Why?  

Is this what "apologetics" means?

I think we should absolutely be defending religious liberty. Otherwise, being a Christian here will mean the same thing here that it does in Pakistan right now. Why should the pride of man triumph over the Name of our Lord? Not that it can, but what unfaithful children we would be to our Father if He gives His blood for our eternal freedom, and we turn around and hand the freedom to worship Him right back to the seed of the evil one? Why pander to the arrogant who raise their fists at Heaven? Why would we want to rob future generations of the ability to worship God in freedom?

 The world...our country is being prepared for the "Mark of the Beast" scenerio...in which religious freedom is no more.
 The decree that will go forth will be ...take the 'Mark' or die ! Study Revelation 13:15-18....and Rev. 14:9-11

 The Beast's power has been in operation for some time now. It is slowly taking our liberties away little by little. Everyone  has notice this over these past years.
 The Anti-Christ power provides disasters....Oklahoma Bombing....September 11 ..etc., etc. to push laws into effect to curtail our liberties in the frantic effort to reduce terrorism. Terrorism which the Anti-Christ provides, to keep pushing more laws into effect.
    Have you never noticed how this last incident  (September 11) revolved around a 'religious' movement ?

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Absolutely!!!, we should take a stand. Win, lose, live, or die, we should take a stand. To do otherwise is to say that we approve, tolerate, don't care, and will allow everything without so much as a whimper. If you get knocked down in the process, get up and go again. If you are the last one standing, stand up!

In Christ.

I agree

Brother Love :)

Will you defend God's Holy Sabbth day ?
    Will you tell the Christian world that it a sin to worship on Sunday in disobedience to God's command to honor His Sabbath ?

Never have and I never will keep the sabbath. I rest in Christ 24/7

Thank You Jesus

Oh Boy  ;D ;D ;D

HHMMM..... What were those commandments that Jesus gave us.....Mt 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mt 22:38
This is the first and great commandment.
Mt 22:39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mt 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I don't see anything about saturday, sunday or any other day being the rule of thumb here, do you?

You sir seem to hang yourself on the law and will so be judged by it.  Why do you so ignore what scripture plainly states many times over this one in itself should be good enough for you: Ac 15:5
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Ac 15:10
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Ac 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

And again ye professing the law as a way of salvation why do you not listen to the Word of God?  Christ is of no effect to you according to the Word of God.

Ga 5:2
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Ga 5:3
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Ga 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Ga 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Ga 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Ga 5:7
Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

Listen to the Word of God and allow it to work in your heart and not your pride.

John here:
 ??? ??? LOVING CHRIST IS A YOKE OF BONDAGE??? (for who?)
You can see where your professed stand in 'faith' is! Hopefully you just do not know what you are saying about the EPISTLE OF CHRIST. You know, the milk of the Heb. 5 vrs.?? Or the 2 Cor. 3:3's LETTER OF HIS CHARACTER.

Regardless, this thread reads.. Taking a Stand? We can see  your POSTED personal  LOVE FOR THE MASTER as is measured and seen in the 'bottom line' from Rev. 3:16-17. This is [your stand] or DECISION? To be SPEWED OUT WITH A SICKENING LOVE! :'(

Take care, for you are headed for Obadia 16's verse of NOTHINGNESS!  :'(
".. and [they shall be as though they HAD NOT BEEN]."
Think about that before falling to sleep this evening. Just to be GONE! Eternally! Blotted out of EXISTANCE!
And all of this because of [your admitted] BONDAGE of 'sick' love for Christ.  Your own DECISION is, Your Sabbath Lord!!!???  Not on MY LIFE!! :) *Here is my 'fruit offering' of Gen. 4:7 & 2 Peter 2:19-22 :'( But, NO, NO LORD, I DO LOVE YOU!! BUT YOUR SABBATH COMMANDMENT OF LOVE IS BONDAGE!!! (why?)

Then whose 'desire' ruled Cain's professed Christian life? And remember that he had up to this 'mature time' been flawlessly obedient. Now, the only differance is seen in the offering of the wrong sacrifice & his NEW 'desire' for another leader. What is new?

---John

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

I really don't feel well enough to argue and debate right now, so I'll make this short. If you live under the Law, you must live under all of it and not pick and choose the ones you wish to obey.

You will need to seek a High Priest when you wish to pray. You should know that you can't pray directly without assistance. Get the timing completely right for the sacrifice. Stop eating pork by all means, and you had better hope you are circumcised. If you wish to live by the Law, you must live by all of it.

An excellent point has already been made about the wonderful gift of Jesus on the cross. Yes, we can have fellowship and pray 24 hours a day, 7 days a week without seeking the assistance of a High Priest. The Grace we have been given allows us to fellowship and walk in the Spirit on more than just one day. Much of the fear under the Law was replaced with LOVE under GRACE. GRACE does not make God's children wish to sin more or do less in HIS NAME, just the opposite. LOVE draws us closer and stronger. There is absolutely NOTHING NEGATIVE about the Matchless GRACE of our HEAVENLY FATHER.

In Christ.

PLEASE MODERATORS:

We add the Subjects if we desire. Here we see "Grace and Confussion" added. And this is what comes INTO my mail box, as me subscribing to 'this thread'?

The THREAD'S Subject Is: 'Taking a Stand?' not our indivual subject title. So perhaps you moderators can send out the original Subject to our in box?

Is that clear??? In other words, I have no idea where to find Grace and Confussion except on the forum somewhere?

OK: now I will go back & see what is said in our friends post? But 'me' thinks that he does not agree with his pals (brothers?) from above? ;)  Or is he taking a stand?

Thanks in advance!---J/t/B/
 

Well?
John here again. 'i' see that he has made his DECISION. He has taken his stand of a 'Spewed out Love'. For this is the ONLY WORTHWHILE MOTIVE that Christ gave for keeping His Commandments! And yes, of course, only the 4th commandment is hated. All others MUST BE KEPT, right? And the SPEWED out ones did not LOVE ENOUGH! None of His ten are legalism but one, huh? I see :'(.

Now: Back to the MODERATORS again: I suspect that another reason for the posters not likeing to post here is not just the fact of the [spiritual ignorance] of posters. (me or whoever) but because much of the time it takes way toooo long of a time to get the posting done! Bytes received might be the culpret?

Anyhow, I do not have this problem on other sites. No condemnation, just some suggestiong.

---John

AMEN!!! ;D

DITTO ;D

Um, thank you, gents.

What do you think about Chf. Justice's Ten Commandment monument there in the state court house?  I think the latest news is he had to remove it??

Oklahoma Howdy To Symphony,

I think this is crazy. It can and has been proven that much of our law is based on the Ten Commandments and Biblical values, ethics, and teaching. In other words, the core of America's criminal justice system is the Holy Bible. Our written law represents the moral foundation of our society. Like it or not, that foundation was Almighty God and the Holy Bible. I like this and so did our founding fathers. For those who don't like this, I suggest they vote with their feet and leave this nation.

If one doesn't like to hear "God Bless American", "One Nation Under God", "In God we trust", and other traditional American slogans, I suggest a fund be set up to help them leave America with the promise they won't come back. UM?, maybe I'm too shy about this subject.

In Christ.

(removed)
******
John here:
Wow! Did you read your last post? Are you telling us that now, after posting this post, that we need the posting of the Ten Commandments in USA Government buildings, or anywhere for that matter?? ??????

What are you going to do with the forth commandment? :'(

D.D., it is surely easy to see what our future holds, huh?
---John

Oklahoma Howdy to John,

I see that you need to take a "lighten up" pill again. There is a hot link on your mail notice to take you to the exact spot of the post. You don't have to search for anything. It's all "Click and Go" automatically, nice and easy.

You don't have a clue what I believe, so never try to put words in my mouth. I'm not shy, I'll speak for myself. I don't think that you know what YOU believe. At the very least, you are extremely confused. You make it very difficult for anyone to converse with you, even for your brothers in Christ, assuming you are saved.

For the record, I believe in, practice, enjoy, share, and stand for the Gospel of the Grace of God. There is no other Gospel. Your posts are so critical and wandering that it is very difficult to know what you believe in, practice, enjoy, share, and stand for. By the way, resting in Christ is (7) days a week, not just one.

In Christ.

Oklahoma Howdy to John,

A "lighten up pill" will not be sufficient, add a "chill pill" to that and get plenty of rest.

There is no contradiction to anything I said for anyone who has a casual knowledge of the Gospel of God's Grace. I think that the Ten Commandments, the Holy Bible, "God Bless American", "In God We Trust", and "One Nation Under God" should be placed and posted in every public building and classroom in America. Try reading a little bit about the Gospel of God's Grace. A good start would be Ephesians.

Drink plenty of water with those "lighten up and chill pills".

Resting In Christ 24/7.

Hi, John here:
Thanks for coming out of your closet. You are right about me  not knowing what you believe? Hange the law of God in the Government buildings! or scrap the Law of God as Moses legalism stuff?? (or) We are to obey God's ten commandments, or they are legalism! ??? ??? Wow! real clear & bold, huh?

Your 'Brothers' (not mine for sure!) as you call them, perhaps one knows these ones a little better?  At least they COME OUT of the Closet in their posting DECISION'S. No up & down, flip flop, back and forth. (with one of them anyway!) This one ;D ;D & his echo! And now you??? Tell me it isn't so!

And you say that you are not bashful? 'Look at me, huh?' And you suggest that 'i' am not a Christian? All because Christ said  "If ye love me keep my Commandments"? And I BELIEVE HIM!! Interesting!

Hay young'in, please be advised that your 'missives' just scare me to pieces, huh? (see Matt. 10:25 & 14-16) Prophecy & history are FULL of what your anti/love no commandment keeping friends postings are like. That is called FORCED COMMANDMENT Hangings, huh? (either way?) Or do you & your Brothers not agree on this? Who knows in that case, except by the company one keeps? See Rev. 18:4.

In the Master's quickly finished work, for the house of God first. 1 Peter 4:17
                                                ---John

]

Oklahoma Howdy to John,

I see that you need to take a "lighten up" pill again. There is a hot link on your mail notice to take you to the exact spot of the post. You don't have to search for anything. It's all "Click and Go" automatically, nice and easy.
****

John here:
are you one of the bettin Oakies?

John,

I wouldn't know. What is a "bettin Oakie"? I am a retired, disabled, and Christian police officer if that has anything to do with the question.

 :)LOL :) Right On

Brother Love :)

 :)



Brother Love :)

Oklahoma Howdy to John the Baptist,

The pills didn't work for you. I really don't understand what you are trying to say, where you stand, or what you believe. The closest I can come is that you are hung up on some sort of legalism (The Law), and you don't understand the Gospel of God's Grace and the meaning of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

I have no problem at all in obeying God, especially since HIS GRACE makes obeying an enjoyment. If you took the crucifixion of Jesus and the Gospel of God's Grace out of the Bible, I might understand what you believe. However, that is the most beautiful and precious portion of the Bible and IS THE ONE GOSPEL, THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD.

Several have already posted Scripture that explains some of the major differences between Law and Grace. I may try again when I get back from a family gathering. There is a new Commandment involving one word, "LOVE". I fail at that sometimes, so I will try again to explain the Gospel of God's Grace to you.

In the meantime, see if you can understand one little phrase and how it applies to the Gospel of God's Grace, "resting in Christ 24/7". You won't find this phrase on the Gospel, but you will find the basis for it in many places. If you don't, I'll post the Scriptures for you when I get back.

Resting in Christ 24/7.

Amen Brother Amen

The only way to have peace with Christ is do what he says.   Christ came to destroy the works of the devil...which is sin in the lives of people. Jesus came to free us from, "Sin shall not have dominion over you", (Romans 6:14).

 Christ paid the debt of 'past' sins....so we can live a better life without sin controling us anymore.

Below is an excerpt from an article at www.operationsaveamerica.org

Posted July 10, 2003
Abortion foes spark anxiety
8 days of rallies planned at mosques and clinics
CRISTINA C. BREEN
Staff Writer

Members of local Islamic mosques, some churches and abortion-rights organizations are banding together in anticipation of a weeklong visit from hundreds of members of a controversial anti-abortion group that denounces abortion, Islam and homosexuality.

About 300 supporters of Operation Save America will gather in the Charlotte area starting Saturday for eight days of prayer services and rallies in front of abortion clinics, churches, mosques and other city landmarks.

The group's director, the Rev. Philip "Flip" Benham, moved the organization from Dallas to Concord in the past year, and has planned dozens of events from Kannapolis to Charlotte.

They include a demonstration July 18 with nine caskets for each of the nine Supreme Court justices to protest the court's ruling overturning Texas sodomy law.

Benham denounces violence, but his confrontational platform and rhetoric concern enough churches and other groups that they have been meeting with police and forming alliances to plan their responses to this week's events.

Benham dismisses their concerns.

"That's all silliness," he said. "What they're worried about is that the word of God is going to expose the lie that they are under. That's called love."  

_______________

The article goes on.  If you have time to read some of the materials at the above site, what do you think?

Do you think what Pastor Benham, and Operationsaveamerica, is doing, is the way to take a stand.

Is this a small but good example of the growing coalition--a community's churches, together with their police--that will be against us??

(http://www.operationsaveamerica.org/misc/misc/images/flipnorm.jpg)  Picture of Pastor Benham baptising...

Let's just keep arguing over THE LAW of God verses "Grace" and then we don't have to do anything ( arm chair politics anyone?) What's so interesting, are those who spoke favorable about Judge Moore and The Ten Commandments; yet will condemn those who believe(keep )them. What's wrong with this picture???

Back to the subject at hand. Christian activism does bring change. Our nation had over 2,000 abortion clinics in 1990. There are now less than 800.

Faith without works is dead.

Psalm 119

Let's just keep arguing over THE LAW of God verses "Grace"

"         "     "         "      "      The Law of God verses THE GOSPEL OF GODS GRACE.

"...to testify the GOSPEL of THE GRACE of God (Acts 20:24) ;D

I think the concerns are good, but I think carrying caskets for the justices is a disrespect to our government, which the Bible is clear about our needing to respect those in authority. Hate what they ddo, yes. Fight for the cause of God, absolutely. But the presentation leaves much to be desired and is unlikely to achieve the desired goal. Somewhat akin to serving a beautifully cooked filet mignon, complete with garnish and all the trimmings, on a garbage can lid.

Whitehorse,

Prior to 1988 ,abortion was sky rocketing and God's people were keeping the pews nice and warm. Then a move of God began called Operation Rescue. People from all denominations ( with the exception of the WCC) crossing all cultural and socio economic lines heard the cry of God to first repent, then to take action.( Read Isaiah 1).  Our nation was drowning in blood guiltiness  and still is for the most part.Over the next five years or so there were approximately 600,000 arrests at the clinics( including yours truly). Revival broke out in the jails and in the hearts of Gods people. Babies were saved by the hundreds (or more). Operation Save America picked up where Operation Rescue left off. Yes the "tactics" haven't been 501 (c) 3 ( Church incorporation) approved, but the fruit of these tactics have done the following: Being a prophetic voice to a wicked and sinful generation (see Ezekiel 18, 33) saving children from a horrible death, watching people come to the saving knowlege of Jesus Christ.

Just think if the Church had been the Church it should've been in 1973 there would now be 40 million future taxpayers. These are 40 million souls who will never have the opportunity to pay tribute to Caeser.  :'(

Psalm 119

There is a chapter in the Master's Word that is both two time prophecy of the ones that 'TAKE A STAND'.

There can be no error even for the 'babes' of Heb. 5 to see!
The chapter tells of 'HIS OWN' professed ones that are ALL to be slaughtered, UNLESS? Only these unless ones were TAKING A STAND! And then it tells that ALL THE OTHERS WERE SLAUGHTERED. And it tells ALL what this TAKING A STAND was about?

"... SIGH AND CRY FOR ALL OF THE ABOMINATIONS THAT BE DONE IN THE MIDST THEREOF". This [IS] God's CHURCH, not the world! Read it in Ezekiel 9. See Rev. 18:4

Just think of what the Word 'Partaker' means? Yoked in membership with OPEN SIN! Supporting this 'stuff' (abortion included) in politics, (party) also robbing God in His tithes & offerings, homosexuals ministers, membership seen OPENLY in sin & in documented print! Drs. & Clergy condoning the OPEN sin of abortion, pluss EVERYTHING else! [AND] these are [US], the MEMBERSHIP that are PARTAKERS, GOD SAID!

And HE told US what is to BE OUR STAND in the above verse.
That is the Lord's COMMANDMENT! It is acted upon because one LOVES HIM! (or do we? :'()

---John
 

JTB Said: It is acted upon because one LOVES HIM! (or do we? )

---John
 He first Loved me, and YES I LOve Him.

Brother Love :)

Yep, Whitehorse, Justice Scalia I understand recently on the gay thing had a scathing dissenting opinion; I'm not so sure about all nine caskets.  Maybe eight or seven.  

Maybe if the trash can lid is good and clean?  ;D  

Psalm,  that's what I'm afraid of, "keeping the pews nice and warm(the cushioned kind--arrrgh).  I was just wondering, why did OP. Rescue change its name to OP Save America?  Just wondering if you might know.

It's great for there to be unity and respect of the government.  But what about this "inter-faith" thing, and knowing where to draw the line.  Officially okaying abortion (in 1973)--for what?  For the sake of wholesale immorality.   So that we can be immoral.

I'm thinking we are like the nations that God brought Israel to drive out(child sacrifice)?

So confrontation?  Moses "confronted" Pharoah?  Jesus "confronted" the Pharisees?  Peter and Paul in Acts?

Confrontation?  But again, doing it "discreetly", or "fairly"?

I'm not so sure about the nine caskets.  That might be over the top..   But, on the other hand, Elijah there in I Kings 18 DID mock the worshipers of Baal...

HMmmm.....

I would agree that there should not be nine caskets but rather six. (Maybe they are trying to saying the Supreme Court is dead in a general sense?)

In regards to Operation Rescue....Randall Terry stepped down years ago ( which is a good thing). A man name Keith Tucci took over for a while then Flip Benham.

There are many godly people in OSA...my one complaint is the ecunemical influence. Although the majority are Protestant, there is some Catholic influence. I will call no man "Father". Plus those who are Mary worshipping Catholics will end up in the same place (HELL) as the abortionists. With all that said, should we who know the truth remain silent?

Psalm 119

Preach the truth, in season or out of season.

Lk 18
1  And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

You can read the rest of it, if you want, but it seems to me, Christians, who don't stand for the truth of scripture, are the ones, always running around, screaming the end of the world when they come accross, articles like this and blame it on Christians who defend the truth of the Word, rather than parading and out in the streets campaigning for this or that.

The answer is pray and watch,  

For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him.

We are called to be the salt of the earth, unfortunately, the church today, has become a baby sitting institution, caring for the weak brethern, who are not intresrested in getting into the meat and potatoes of scripture, but keep allowing themselves to swept;  to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

If every professing Christian, witnessed to just person a week, begining first by living it, perhaps it might be a little different, but I doubt it, since the heathen are to wax bolder at the end of the age.

So watch and pray...


God Bless,

Petro

Petro,

I'm not quite sure what your are trying to say....Christians should not be involved in street activism? Just stay in Bible studies and have "meaty topics" or what.

I can personally attest that babies are alive today and lives were saved from the wrath to come(including my husband) to those who took the gospel of Jesus to the streets.

Many Christians have gotten their news from CNN, and not those who have been personally involved.

On a further note ,hundreds of Christians may descend on Birmingham, Alabama to see the Ten Commandments stay in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court. Should they stay home and let a few ungodly judges wipe out every semblance of Christianity from our nation?

Psalm 119

Psalm 119,

Good for you and your husband, I commend you.

We Christians are called to do good, as a testimony of our faith, whether it be teaching the Bible, and meaty subjects;  as   we all have  different gifts, just because some Christians, do not attend rallies, or walkathons, or whatever else catches somes fancies, doesn't mean they are not concerned about issues, or are not praying for God's will in the matter.

Pro abortion, Presidents, Congressman, and Senators don't just get elected, because all prophessing Christians don't vote for them, but because prophessing Christians not only support
them, but vote for them,  some proud Roman Catholic recently had p[osted there are somewhere up of 69 million Catholics oin the nation, the Majority of Catholics are Democrats in this country, and lots of them are liberal democrats, they in the state of Massqachusetts, have elected and, re elected and ungodly senator, year after year,

I ask, what good is it to vote for such men, to represent the citizenry, while campaingning thru rally's and such contrary to what they stand for?

The Christian life should Honor God in All things, this includes in electing officials that have morals views as similar to the Bible teachings as possible.

We are to use our gifts, in promoting the things of God, and edification of the church, caring one for another.

We are paying now for mistakes of the past, generations, who elected people unfit to sit as elected officials in the halls of congress, appointing Liberal Humanistioc Judges .

So, I wouldn't be to quick to judge them, that do not answer the call, to come to the rallys, you have and interest in,   and that is good a good work, there are other things, others are doing, with little support also, but thank God, who does not forget yours and theirs labor of Love.

Blesings,
Petro

Petro,

I completely agree with the political dilemma, that Christians and Catholics continue to vote for the ungodly. When I have to choose between the "lesser of two evils" , I simply do not vote for either. And actually, we are nearly a one party system , a.k.a. republicrats. But we that know the Lord have ourselves to blame for our complacency. We have abdicated our role in government. We could learn a thing or two from Israel.....Oh no the dreaded word theocracy.

Petro, the only difference between the sheep and the goats is what they did and did not do. James 2:22 states " Do you see that faith was working together with his (Abraham)works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Not everyone is "called" to do street activism. Nor everyone called to be a missionary. But we are all called to do something.

The driving force for groups like OSA is that they understand the concept of "bloodgultiness" and what happens to nations, and  individuals that are guilty. (I encourage you to do a personal study on bloodgultiness) Ezekiel 22 is a good chapter.

I guess my concern is that for so many years American Christians have become so fat and lazy (I include myself here). We have tunnel vision....can't see beyond our churches, denominations, etc. Our world has become so very small.

This was one of the verses that caused me to rethink my non involvement with abortion: "Deliver those who are drawn to death, and hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, "Surely we did not not this, does not He who weighs the heart consider it?He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds? Prov.24:11-12

The early Christians in Rome would save discarded babies (which was legal; yet illegal to save them), abolitionists saved slaves, Amy Carmichael saved young girls that were being used as temple prostitutes, the ten Booms saved Jews etc.

I know I have been lenghty, but the point is that we are all called to some type of "activisim" for the kingdom of God.

Psalm 119

Whew.  I'll have to come back to this.

Psalm 119

I agree with you,  

I have been a christian for over 23 years, and when I first became a Christian, I got involved in helping to build the basic shell for houses,  for poor people in Mexico (since I live in the southwest, close to the border)(the decision who got one built, was made by others, I was just part of a volunteer crew that did the job), this type of ministry sounds great on the surface, but was alot physical of work, and there was many Christians who applied and were granted the sponsorship by different churches, who put up the money for the basic house shell (they were supposed to finish their own homes;  well as it turned out,some of these christians, sold there homes for a tremendeous profit, instead of finishing them, which really opened my eyes to what honors God and what doesn't, as far as doing the ministering, we are called to serve Him, not self serving people.

And this is what I came to understand, concerning working for the Lord.

1. There is always going to be needy people, some poor but there is always others who are poorer, some even destitute.

2.  There some ministries,which are nothing more than social work should be left to secular social workers.

3.   God desires that He be known, and glorified, and that the gospel be preached, and this should be the central thrust of the ministry.

4.   Discernment - Many imposters, who will claim to be christian, when they understand what the free bees are, a ministry is giving away, will show up to take what they can, depriving those who really need the services more.

My point is, that Christians who embark, in some type of activity for the Lord, should do so prayerfully, and with much discernment, to wisely spend the funds entrusted to them by churches.

They should always, proclaim the unsearchable riches of Christ by teaching and preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Doing something for the sake of doing it, and not glorifying the Lord, is not something Christians should be involved in, for instance serving food in food lines, is something anybody can do, but unless a Christian does it at a place where the object is to make Christ known, what value is it, for the kingdom.

Sometimes, good intentions, turn into full time social jobs, which overwhelms the ones ministering to the needy, and the work leaves no time for sharing the Word.

In short, what ever we do for God, ought to be for the purpose of sharing the most important thing with those we serve, and that is to share the word of truth, with them, that they might be saved or , edify and strengthen if they claim to be believers.

If one asks 80% of people one meets on the street these days if they are christians, almost all will dsay they are, so its hard to tell who is and who isn't.

Do all to the glory of God, this ought to our motto..

God Bless,
Petro

Petro,

I too have seen the "social gospel", and it's not the saving gospel.

There our outfits like habitat for humanity that do good works, but there is no real foundation on the "Rock". I know a lot of cities have soup kitchens and such. But if these things are not founded on the gospel of Jesus Christ they are nothing.

We are still called to be salt and light, and not hide under a bushel. That's my biggest concern for the body of Christ.

Psalm 119

I've known a good number of people who've been in one social cause or another--community betterment, Salv. Army, etc.  

Many seem to regret it in their old age--to the point of bitterness.  

Whatever we do we have to do as unto the Lord.  Looking for "return" sets us up for disappointment.

If we're activists, we should be careful how to handle those who aren't, may be what Petro is saying.

But the cowardly the LOrd wants no part of, too.  Certainly we couldn't side with the protestant minister there in Corrie Ten Boom's Hiding Place, who refused to smuggle out the Jewish baby.

Certainly we want to have the courage to help those in need, no matter the cost.

Many social programs, tho, are corrupt from both angles--the promoters use human weakness(hunger, housing, old age, etc.), to enrich or glorify themselves; and as Petro says of the housing he worked in, the recipients use it equally to profiteer in.

Much of it seems to take "discernment"--knowing what to participate in, and what not to.  

I think in most any benevolent work, though, there is always the feeling of futility lurking about.  Indeed, Paul warned that God subjected all in futility, here on earth.

I think it comes back to Who we're walking with, whenever we are dooing whatever it is we are doing--Who we are communing with.  

But for sure, the "inter-faith" movement will definitely be one of "good works"--a snare the discerning Christian must be quick to recognize--wolves in "sheeps clothing".  They will be going the extra mile to make a Christian look bad.

Well, it's like I say; I believe strongly in taking a stand. But sinning is not the way to take a stand. And in our zeal and righteous indignation (both good and holy things), we must guard against going so over the top that we lose respect from those we are trying to reach. Carrying around caskets? That's zealous, but not disciplined. Zeal must be combined with maturity and discipline. It's the presentation that needs tweeking, not the cause.  ;)