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Ehh this is probably a touchey subject to you.. but I dont believe there is really such a thing as a true "christian goth" I think goth is more into satan and pentagrams and all that crap. I dunno thats my opinion... but hey ROCK ON anyway

I think goth is more into satan and pentagrams and all that crap.

Not necessarily. Goths are the depressed losers (I would say "kids," but sadly, some adults feel the need to categorize themselves under the "goth" label) who walk around in all black, wear black makeup, listen to death metal and industrial metal and speed metal and, of course, heavy metal, and hang out in dark, mysterious places...after curfew. The rebels! They close themselves to everyone except the other people who wear black and listen to metal and wear makeup. They slit their wrists because they think it's cool, they play with knives because they think it's cool, they wear plastic fangs and cloaks and trench coats because they think it's cool.

The weird thing is, no one likes goths except other goths (oh, and Jesus). So how this "cryptic," "complex" group of people keeps growing is something I have yet to figure out.

The are christian goths i know plenty of them, I guess I'm one of them, I have actually gotten banned from the color black at my school and most of the faculty dislike me because I wore all black, and they told me not to do that since I enjoi being at that school to some extent I didnt wear all black, and then all the sudden the started saying blue jeans and blue shirts are too lose to black and then the banned me from black, which made mad and I actually no longer considered my self a christian, got in alot of music that was "satanic" I guess and no like they were loving sataning just the were mad at God and I was too because How could his "people" be so closed minded to where the way someone dresses makes them un-christian if thats a word, and now I really like that music that I listened to and now I'm having trouble not listening to it because they became my favorite band, and I was drawing things that some people saw that I wish they hadnt, because it definately wasnt gloryfiying God. But now I have realized me getting mad at God because of that is as stupid as them banning me from black. and Now I consider my self a Christ Child, aka christian again, I play the band at my youth church , and we are going to be playing at my school sometime soon which will be fun for me. and they dont like drums or distortion at church and we have plenty of it, we have played at some churches (or I have) were they called me the devil and bla bla bla when we were being sincere in our worship and getting closer God, there are Christian Goths.

"Goths are the depressed losers"?

We are all losers except for the blood of Jesus Christ.

"no one likes goths"

 
I dont know what your experience has been with those who are goth, but one of the nicest young men I know claims to be goth, and is actually a friend of my daughter. I wont pretend to understand the culture, and have been doing a lot of research on it, so far the sum of what i`ve learned is goth means many different things to different people, but Solomon has this to say "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."   Your statements are too broad, inclusive of all who are goth, and quite obviously biased. It amounts to the same thing as saying all bikers are outlaws. We as Christians are too quick to judge things we have little or no knowledge or understanding of.

Do you attend school with a lot of goths?  :-\


"And Jesus"..... The most important aspect of any culture or  sub-culture. :)

goth means many different things to different people

I'll agree with this, but let's turn to our good friend, the dictionary, for a humorous definition:

goth: (n) A crude uncouth ill-bred person lacking culture or refinement

I guess I just find that funny.

Your statements are too broad, inclusive of all who are goth, and quite obviously biased.

Well, duh.

Geeze, why is it that whenever I say something so obviously sarcastic, certain people hit me over the head with a Bible? And before you get all uppity about that possibly controversial statement, it was sarcastic as well.

Do you attend school with a lot of goths?

Yes. And pretty much everything I said about goths in general applies to them.

Brothers and Sisters,

I must admit ignorance on the subject of Goths. I did go to the web site that started this thread, and I didn't find anything there that mocked God.

What very little I know about this subject, I still considered deleting this thread. The subject of darkness, wearing black, and other weird stuff does make me question whether this thread should be on Christians Unite.

I would appreciate some input and advice from other brothers and sisters here.

Love In Christ,
Tom

My opinion - for what it's worth :-X - is that at this point, I'd like to wait and learn more.  :)

"Goths" aren't a big sub-culture here in the rural south!  :-\

wearing black

So wearing black is suddenly looked down on now?

I don't think the thread should be deleted. It's not blasphemous in any way, as you said, and doesn't detract from fellowship. Honestly, if every single thread here were about how great Jesus was, this would be one boring site. Allow a little diversity.

Sapphire W34P0N,

No, I don't look down on anyone wearing black. I asked the question because I don't know what being Goth means, and I don't know what they do. I'm positive there is absolutely nothing wrong about being a Christian, but I really don't have a clue about being Goth.

Sapphire W34P0N, it's simply a question from an old guy wanting information about whether this is appropriate on a Christian family forum.   :D  If you can help the old square, please explain it to me.   :D

Love In Christ,
Tom

Sorry, BEP. Can't help you with a serious definition. You ask one self-proclaimed goth wht it means, he'll give you an answer. Ask another one, you'll get a different answer. It's odd.

I've been a lurker here for awhile, but I think I'll speak out here.  :)

I'm a goth myself, and my circle of friends is mostly goth.  I'm the only Christian out of them, though.  The others are pagan or atheist. :(  Some are old and young... many of the older ones have been goth since like the 70s.  The meaning of goth, depending on who you ask.... goth will either mean nothing anymore, or something totally different to everyone, thanks to the evolution of it.

As I understand it, it originally started as a type of counterculture back then, meant to be tied closely to identity and personal expression (often via art of some kind).  But the meaning of the term has sprung up stereotypes that people talk about, and those have done more harm than good.  A lot of that is due to the evolution over the years, despite a resistance to change by some goths.  There seems to be a pervasive desire amongst a lot of the new members to tie goth down to some core ideal or value set.  Many late 80s punk bands adapted the gothic mode of dress to fit their own, and from them goth bands erupted, and from music it is usually where a new subculture of sorts arrives. These were "new wave" goths and adopted a "I hate everybody" approach in the music.  So that is how it is nowdays defined by what it is not, rather than what it is.

The original idea was, you could freely express your emotions without caring what anyone thought.  You could be happy, depressed, whatever.  Not many people went around expressing depression, and goths were pretty much the only people that did/would do that, so they were naturally clumped together as a depressed bunch.  But many people would use that as an excuse to brood about and look for attention, a "boo-hoo I'm depressed and a drug-addict and I hate the world, feel sorry for me" attitude, and whatnot. I think society is rapidly collapsing as people are thinking drugs and gloominess are cool, and black is a colour of mourning, and so people will gravitate to being a goth either thinking that's what makes them goth or they just want attention, and many people today will bury their problems in loose sex and drugs... and so gradually arrived the negative image of goths.

I blame some of it on the arrival of Marilyn Manson, I think. Since him, the goth movement has became almost mainstream and has brought on the "goth-not goth" debate and a more negative image of goths (and also the idea that a Christian goth is nonexistant).

I guess the issue is more of what kind of goth he/she is, or how/why the individual is goth, opposed to just being goth.

Oh, and hi everyone. :)

I don't know if this only is a thing where I live,but everyone that I know that is goth are really nice happy people my grandma works at a college and says also that they are nice people.It doesn't really matter I think what you wear,but what's on the inside.So maybe they just want to be different from everyone else it really doesn't matter.That's just my opinion though.

::)

That's just my opinion though.

Good thing you said that. I thought maybe you were speaking for someone else.

As you say, its the heart attitude that is important. I had a big problem with music as an idol in my life, and all the culture that went along with it. I was especially attracted to heavy metal, or generally any heavy music with a lot of attitude. What you devote your time to affects you profoundly, just as your peers affect you. If something becomes more important to you than obeying Christ then there is a problem.

This applies to what you think about and dwell on, what you devote your time and energy to. If something promotes ungodly attitudes or interests then it is best to avoid it. I'm not saying that goths necessarily come into this category, because I dont know enough about them to comment.
What I do know however is that the human heart will try to find any conceivable way of excusing our sin, and allowing it to exist within our relationship with Christ. If you find that you are repeatedly sinning in the same ways and asking forgiveness, then repeating the same process endlessly, it is often a  good idea to look at what you are feeding your mind and soul with.

Luke 6:45  A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.


Philippians 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I know this was perhaps straying from the topic a little.. but I think its relevant. I see this kind of thing a lot in young Christians who want to know if their lifestyle is wrong or not. The best guide for that is to read the Word with an open mind, not with a closed mind, using it to back up what you have decided you want to believe. :) God give us all the grace to do that. :)

For the one who says they don't think there is any such thing as a True Christian Goth, that comes as a surprise to me since I was baptized a few months back, attend chruch somewhat regularly, and am a very christian person.  I occasionally wear a pentagram, but did you know that pentagrapms have many meanings, including the crucifixion and also warding off of demons and evil spirit influence? 

I hate evil, I hate Satanic themes.  But I do try to live up to the baptismal committment. 

Hello daywalker66,

Welcome to ChristiansUnite forums.

What are most symbols? For the most part they are something that man has come up with to signify different things and as you said some of them can signify different things to different people. We even have some that God has given to mankind such as the rainbow that now has been assigned a different meaning by people.

The only thing that concerns me is what these sort of things might do to our witness to others. It is also a concern in just how we use these symbols. Give the pentagram you mentioned as an example. A basic pentagram is nothing more than a 5 pointed star. This symbol though is given with varying other symbols in conjunction with it that can make it mean some different than just a star. Using those such as the upside down star with a goats head in it or the star with a circle around it can give it a specific meaning that can destroy our witness completely. It is such that we as Christians should avoid as it can erroneously connect us to that which is evil.

However I disagree with you that things such as these or even the crucifix having the power to ward off demons or evil spirits. Symbols are just that they symbols. Something that may or may not represent a certain meaning. This are simply things. The power over evil is not in them but rather in the power of Jesus Christ our very Lord and Saviour. It is He and He alone that overcame evil.

Hello daywalker66,

WELCOME!


First, I agree with what Pastor Roger told you. I don't know or understand the lifestyle and statements of goth, but I do understand what should be the lifestyle and statements of a Christian. When and if there are conflicts, they should be resolved in favor of God and God's Glory - not ourselves or man. We each have to determine the priorities in our lives. For Christians, our priority is Jesus Christ.

Jesus meets us where we are. If Goth is where you are at right now, He'll meet you there but we cannot allow goth or anything else to come before our love of Jesus.

That said... we all have things of this world we are attached to in some way or another. Some of those things are obviously things we would consider bad, but some of those things may even be things we consider good. Yet even every good thing is not the right thing.

For example going to the beach enjoying the beauty of the ocean and the shore is a good thing but if we do it everyday and neglect going to work.... a good thing can quickly become something that caused bad or negative consequences in our life like neglecting responsibilities, not putting first things first.

When we come to Jesus, we put Him first in our life, to the extent that we understand what that means at that particular time, which is usually not too much.

When we are first Saved, some of the bad things fall away immediately, others over time but in either case it is easy to identify those bad things as hindrances to our Christian walk. 
 
But.... the things that are neither bad or good are not so clearly identified as hindrances...yet many of those things can be hindrances.
By the leading of the Holy Spirit each of us over time begin to identify things we can learn to do without which at one time we couldn't even imagine doing without.

Those things include our affiliation with a particular group, particular cliques, particular fads, particular people, particular styles of clothing and yes ....particular styles of music.

We all have our likes and dislikes when it comes to music and styles of dress but as we grow in the Lord and His Presence is magnified in our hearts and minds our identification with those things become less and less intense and those things begin to hold less of a central importance in our lives and the overall scheme of things 

Long story short...goth today but tomorrow who knows, you might hear a country and western style praise song that you really love! In Christ I am never surprised but always mindful of what I have been able to experience and enjoy for in Him all things are possible!  :)