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I was just finishing my bible study and our lesson this week was Zechariah with references in Ephesians, 1. Most of Ephesians 1 and others passages we studied this week have to do with our being chosen from the beginning. My question is, why does God punish those He didn't choose to come to Him?

Uh oh, Houston we have a problem- ELECTION. This is one of the most difficult concepts in all of theology. We know that God is good all the time and to all people. According to scripture, "While we were yet sinners He loved us." "He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." If any man knocks the door will be open. All who call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.

Now, God knew beforehand who would call on His name and who would not. That does not mean that He played any part whatsoever in their making that decision. His knowing did not cause them to reject Him. It all gets back to FREE WILL.

He does NOT punish anyone right now. However, after a period of time and when all have had the opportunity to repenet but did not, His wrath will be poured out. (Like Noah and flood)

No one will ever stand before the Almighty and say, "You know Lord I really wanted salvation, but you did not elect me."

Want to know if you're one of the elect? Call on the Name of the Lord!!!!

aw

That contradicts a lot of scripture, namely, Jer. 1:5, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born, I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to eht nations." And, Eph. 1:4, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blamess in his sight. In his love, he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ." Romans, 9:18, "Therefore God hardens whom He wants to harden and has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy."  That states that God indeed plays a part in this. I do not believe that we are stronger than His will. I have no problem with this except for punishing those whom He did not choose. Are they really punished or, since they don't know what they're missing, will not be as affected by hell as believers would be? But then a lot of scripture talks about judgment day and everyone knowing that Jesus is Lord. One would think that the non-elect would then suffer eternal misery knowing they will not be with Christ. The non-elect being punished is my only confusion about not having free will. I'd really like to understand this.

GOD DOES NOT PUNISH THOSE HE DID NOT CHOOSE TO COME TO HIM!

The foundation of our faith is not "theology" or "doctrines about God".  The foundation of our faith is  GOD HIMSELF -- CHRIST HIMSELF -- THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF.

So before we begin any "vain speculation" we need to understand the character of God. Scripture teaches that "GOD IS A SPIRIT", "GOD IS LOVE", and "GOD IS LIGHT, AND IN HIM IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL". In brief, God is absolute moral and spiritual perfection. That includes absolute holiness, absolute righteousness, absolute justice, absolute grace, and absolute mercy.

Mankind on the other hand is sinful through and through, "For all have sinned and come short of THE GLORY OF GOD" (rOM. 3:23).  "The glory of God" is not only His splendor and glorious majesty, but His absolute moral and spiritual perfection. Therefore, for a man to enter Heaven, he must be as perfect as God, and as righteous as God.

A. Since ALL HAVE SINNED:
1. Christ died FOR ALL MEN (our sins).
2. Christ rose FOR ALL MEN (our justification)
3. Christ is the Saviour OF ALL MEN
4. Christ DRAWS ALL MEN TO HIMSELF
5. God invites ALL MEN TO CHRIST
6. The Holy Spirit invites ALL MEN TO CHRIST

B. Since ALL HAVE SINNED:
1. ALL must believe the Gospel
2. ALL must repent and be converted
3. ALL must receive Christ as Lord and Savior
4. ALL must be born again

C. ALL are NOT SAVED because:
1. Many choose sin over the Savior (Rom. 1:32)
2. Many love darkness instead of light (Jn. 3:19)
3. Many make excuses or make light of salvation (Mt. 22:1-14)
4. Many shun the cross-bearing of discipleship (Mt. 16:24-26)
5. Many harden their hearts when the Holy Spirit speaks (Heb. 4:7).

Divine election is entirely another matter. It begins with the foreknowledge of God (1 Pet. 1:2) and predestinates those who believe to be "conformed to the image of [God's] Son" (Rom. 9:29,30; Eph. 1:1- 2:10). ELECTION AND PREDESTINATION ARE NOT FOR SINNERS BUT FOR THE SAINTS. Whenever the apostles mention these subjects, they are addressing the saints.

Because of God's own character, He would never punish those He did not choose to come to Him.  They condemned themselves when they refused to come, even after He invited them freely (Jn 3:36)!

What scriptural support d you have that He punishes the non-elect?

Some theologians believe that it was the PLAN OF SALVATION that was pre-destined and NOT individuals to it.

aw

If it's our choice to come to God, then how come I couldn't believe Jesus's words until I received the Holy Spirit? I wanted to desperately but it seemed like gibberish to me. How come Paul or the disciples couldn't believe him until they received the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit less pwerful than people? Is He meaningless? If it's our choice, then what if God decides to harden people? Scripture says He decides whom to harden and to whom to give mercy. Who's in control of the universe, God or us? Who of us is above Satan or the Holy Spirit?

I think I've got it. Just like my analogy of parents and children, we parents create an environment where our children feel free to "amek their own choices." They think they're making their own choices when in reality, it is we who are creating the environment for them to do so. But we can step in any time and create consequences that will change their "choices", so we are actually in control. If the child does not believe he is free to make his own choices, then he will not take personal responsibility for his own choices, but instead, blame us for them. That is the way God treats us. He allows us to believe that we are choosing Him or not choosing Him even though He has already decided who will come to Him and who will not. Only God knows each one of our hearts and what we are able to handle. Some people want their earthly lives to be their only reward. But all have to believe they hve the choice to come to Him. It is at that point that we are accountable.

Ah, I get it. God lets us THINK that we have free will so that we can THINK that we are making our own choices so that we can THINK that the consequences are a direct result of our OWN (wink, wink) choices when in reality we don't decide a single thing at all. God has already determined our outcome.

Is that correct?

By the way, I wanted some coffee but decided to wait a little longer before I go get some. A bit too lazy and tired to walk over to the coffee pot... :)

Hmmm... is that my decision or has God already decided that for me? Or does he even care that I drink coffee?

What IS his concern?

-Samson

Its called PARADOX and it has been a major debate among theologians forever. There is no clear answer but as Sower has posted, God is good and does not punish people. It rains on the just and the unjust. "While we were yet sinners He loved us" and He loves everyone. If there is chastisement it is for our good or otherwise we would be treated as BASTARD sons.

Any attempt to make one terrified of God originates with His arch enemy- the devil. We are called into fellowship with Him and a member of His family.

If one wishes to look for where punishment originates, take a look at satan and not God. Hell was created for him and his followers and people go there BY CHOICE.

aw

That's a bit confusing, though. Who created Hell for Satan? Won't some humans be going there? Who will be doing the punishing if not God? Is it the same humans who will be punishing themselves?

Also, how would one reconcile the statement that God doesn't punish people with Isaiah 10:12 -

"When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, "I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes."

That seems to state that God was going to punish the king. Am I interpreting that wrong?

If not, would God punish this king for something he didn't do out of his own will?

Is this where one says "God is sovereign, just, perfect, and he can do whatever he wants"? That I understand but the question is still remains, is that what He does?

God Bless,

-Samson

So don't be lazy, Smartinez, be perfect! All of us respond to our least stressful option. There were many reasons you didn't go to the coffee pot like not being in the mood, not wanting coffee as much as you wanted to stay put, possibly being too tired because of the energy you were expending somewhere elsce, etc. We all respond to whatever rules us, period. Is that FREE choice? I have a good example for you: God says that He would raise up a foolish shepherd who would deceive many people. Now those people think and believe this foolish shepherd is telling the truth because they can only believe what they understand. They think they are exercising free will. But in reality, God knows  what rules them even though they do not. That is how He knows what will deceieve them.

It is the same with our children. They think their parents have no clue what is going on. They even think that they are outsmarting them. But since parents know what it's like to be children, they usually do know more than children think they do. We humans think we're so smart. That is the sin of pride. But God knows everything! We do not. We just think these are our choices. There are MUCH larger powers out there who control our actions; nameley, Satan and God. God has a plan, otherwise revelations could not possibly have been written. We are either ruled by Satan or the Holy Spirit. None of us is above either one. But many people think they are. That again, is the sin of pride which comes from Satan. They have no idea that God knows our number and so do a lot of people other than ourselves.

Thanks Heidi!

Somehow this makes it seem like we're all puppets in a "game" being played by God. We are pawns that get manipulated at his leisure. Is that the view you are expressing?

I was always under the impression that God allowed life & free will to exist and that He intervened when he desired in an effort to accomplish his Greater Plan. Always, though, with the intent of letting his creation ultimately decide whether they wanted to love him or not. Yes, they would first have to be drawn but then they could decide.

You are saying that this is not the case, true? That even the love that we have for him is not a love comes from us to Him, but instead a love that is put in us by Him directed towards Him.

I can't quite see how that would be satisfying to Him but, then again, I'm not Him... :)

God Bless,

-Samson

If He has a greater plan, Samson, then how can we have free will? How does He know when to step in? If He can intervene at all, then He is allowing us to act on certain behavior for a reason. He's calling the shots, Samson, which is why He is the master of the universe, not us. I have no problem admitting He is bigger than me. Again, we either respond from Satan or the Holy Spirit. Sinful desires come from Satan and the fruits of the Spirit come from the Holy Spirit. The sin of pride is what leads us to believe we are in control. But since the sin of pride comes from the devil, we really aren't in control, we just think we are. In reality, we are responding from the devil. We are simply trapped in our own sinfulness with no way out except the Holy Spirit. That's why God sent His only Son to die for our sins because we, of our own accord, can not have victory over them. Thinking we can, only perpetuates the sin of pride.

How does he know when to step in???????? We are speaking of God here, how can you ask "how does He know when to step in"?

Let's use your analogy of parents and kids. More specifically, my parents and my brother when we were younger. My parents have had dreams for us, they desired us to reach certain heights, they taught us moral values, they taught us what was right from wrong.

My older brother and I would fight like cats and dogs, I darn near killed him with a pair of shears when I was about 14. My parents intervened and I felt the wrath of my father, boy did I ever.

We would fight and they would watch, let us go at it until the KNEW that it had gone too far. They KNOW those things, be it intuition or experience. I know that with MY kids.

Needless to say, both my brother and I became different people than they desired us to be. They did their job, they put the path before us, they enlightened us, we were drawn to their thoughts and ideas, but we chose different paths. Where we end up will be a result of what we chose to do.

You say that "we either respond from Satan or the Holy Spirit". How can we respond if we don't have free will? What you're really saying is that we don't respond, that we're CONTROLLED, right? You're saying that we're either possessed by one or we're possessed by the other.

Was Eve possessed by Satan when she ate of the forbidden fruit? Or did the Holy Spirit force her to eat of the fruit? Who actually made the choice? Or was there even a choice to be made?

-Samson

Exactly my point! Your parents knew what you were up to, and ALLOWED you to continue until they intervened. They were in control of the situation even though you thought you were! They could have intervened sooner or later, it was up to them. But they know you will not understand anythhing they say unless you learn for yourselves. It is the same with God. He could force us to love Him but then it wouldn't be real love. He lets us come to the point where we DESIRE Him. He does this through allowing us the consequences of our behavior. That is why He allows sin. There can be no grace without sin. For sin causes pain which leads us to God. This is the ONLY  way we can come to Him and think it is our own doing. But just like your parents, God is in control of the whole situation. Again we are not bigger than God or satan. We are either ruled by one or the other.

2 Pe. 2:19, "While a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him."  Romans, 6:17, "But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin...you have been set free from sin and become slaves to righteousness." Romans, 7:15, "I do  not understand what i do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate to do. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me...For I have the desire to do what is good but cannot carry it out." That sums it up in a nutshell. If we had fee will, then we could, on our own, be perfect. But since we can't, God sent His only Son to SAVE us from ourselves. When the pain of sin becomes unbearable, we "select" our least stressful option which is not a free choice but the least of all evils. Only then will we turn our hearts to God. We then become slaves to righteousness. Tryning to understand God without the Holy Spirit is like trying to understand turkish without an interpreter. That's why Jesus said; "No one can come to me unless the Father draws him." Again, God is in complete control of the universe.

That's a bit confusing, though. Who created Hell for Satan? Won't some humans be going there? Who will be doing the punishing if not God? Is it the same humans who will be punishing themselves?

aw: God created hell for satan and the 1/3 that rebelled.

Satan had declared that he would be "god" and we can have only ONE of course.

Humans will be going there because they reject the one and only way to salvation. Until one is born again, they belong to satan and will spent eternity with him in hell without salvation.

Satan ans his menions will be doing the punishing.

People who do not have a new nature will automatically continue to punish themselves.

aw

Isaiah 10:12 thoughts- The king of Assyria chastened Israel and the Lord punishes him because he boasts that he has conquerored many nations by "his" power alone. In short, he did not recognize God.

God alone is sovereign and omniscient and what He does is always for "good." We might not recognize it as such with our peanut brains and limited knowledge, but it is nonetheless true.

aw

Hell is simply the absence of life with Christ forever. How can someone receive God's love if he denies God even exists! It's impossible! The punishment will therefore be the ABSENCE of God's love forever. Only God knows the hearts of men and who would accept or reject Him. A good example is Hitler. How could someone one accept forgiveness for killing millions of people? Could a human being withstand the knowledge that he was responsible for the deaths of millions? Judas could not stand the anguish he felt at betraying Christ. "To him whom much has been given, much is required." Most humans will be going to hell for as Jesus said;, "For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it." I believe Him. That's why the only unforgivable sin is the sin against the Holy Spirit which is unbelief. The longer a person rejects Christ's words or worships other gods before Him, the harder it is to accept forgiveness for having rejected the only one who can save him. The remorse would be unbearable.

So Satan will be getting punished by God but Satan in turn will be punishing the humans? I would have thought that Satan would be suffering way too much to be concerned with punishing someone else... But, then again...

God Bless!

-Samson

Smartinez, do you know who Satan is and what he he does? Do you think he will be rewarded or defeated by God?

Heidi...

??????????

Do I think he will be rewarded by God or defeated???????? Are you seriously asking those questions??????

Personally, I believe that Satan has ALREADY been defeated at the Cross. Why would he have to be defeated again?

I'm not sure I understand your questions.

You made an interesting statement in your previous post: "The punishment will therefore be the ABSENCE of God's love forever." Isn't God's love eternal? Isn't it impossible for God not to love his creation? God can't stop loving anyone, it's impossible. Isn't it?

Are you saying that hell is going to be death? Complete death? You can't be separated from God and still be alive, can you? Isn't he the essence of life itself?

Yes, Satan has been defeated in those in whom the Holy Spirit reigns. But He will be truly defeated at Christ's second coming and will not appear for 1,000 yrs.

Nobody can receive God's love and forgiveness if he rejects it. It's just like a gift that someone gives you out of love. It will do no good if it remains unopened. Those who do not accept the gift cannot benefit from it. It is the same with those who reject the Holy Spirit. They cannot be with Christ if they don't want to. Those who want to will ask and receive His love for eternity. But only God knows people's hearts.

You could not believe Jesus' words until the Holy Spirit "convinced" you of Christ -- who He is and what He accomplished for you through His death , burial and resurrection. You did not "receive" the Holy Spirit until you believed Him and believed the Gospel, and repented and received Christ.  It is only when you receive the Saviour into your soul that you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, the gift of eternal life, and the gift of the indwelling Christ.


The Holy Spirit opens our eyes to the truth about Christ and therefore the "gibberish" makes sense.  He also draws men to Christ (Jn. 16:7-15). But "receiving" the Holy Spirit comes after "believing God":  "Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it was counted to him for righteousness". Without the believing there is no receiving: "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME" (Jn. 1:12)>


Obviously, you do not clearly understand the convicting and convincing power and work of the Holy Spirit. God the Holy Spirit does not compel or coerce sinners but He mightily convicts them of their sinful state and also of what Christ has acomplished for sinners.  Without the Word of God and the Holy Spirit working on the hearts and souls of sinners, no one would be saved. It is a supernatural work of God to draw men to Christ.


God's will is that NONE should perish but that ALL should come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9).  We have to begin with that truth. "God will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4).  Therefore the Holy Spirit works on the heart of each and every sinner who hears the Gospel. The sinner's response must be to "obey" the Gospel, which means believe, repent and receive Christ by faith.  Those who do not yield to the voice of the Holy Spirit are given many opportunities to repent, as was the case with Pharaoh through Moses. Pharaoh repeatedly hardened his heart, and then God said "Enough is enough" and He hardened Pharaoh's heart. But God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, therefore He will give sinners many opportunities to repent, until one day they cannot be saved because of their own obstinacy. They harden their hearts.  Then God hardens their hearts. He is a just God. But He is also a gracious God.


Your question does not need an answer, since it is obvious that God is sovereign over His own universe.  However, salvation is not a matter of God's control but of man's response to what God in His mercy and grace has provided through the Lord Jesus Christ. God will not compel or coerce man to believe Him, love Him or serve Him.  Unless these things are done out of a believing and loving heart response, they are meaningless to God.

Those who obey God receive the Holy Ghost. How did you receive it if you did not obey by believing Jesus first? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 6:32.  And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


 Romans 10:9.  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 11.  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 12.  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
 13.  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
 15.  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
 16.  But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
 17.  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Ollie

GOD DOES NOT PLAY SILLY MIND GAMES AS ABOVE. SALVATION IS NOT AN EXISTENTIAL GAME. IT IS THE OFFER OF THE GRACIOUS GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL WHO WILL BELIEVE, REPENT AND RECEIVE CHRIST AS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOUR.

This may be wishful thinking, but it certainly is NOT BIBLE TRUTH.  Before making such statements which have no foundation in Scripture, please study the Word. Hell is a literal Lake of Fire, a place of eternal torment, a place of confinement for all who are wicked, sinful, and rebellious, an eternal prision created primarily for the devil and his angels, but reserved for all who will not believe the Gospel (Jn. 3:36).

The torments of Hell are indescribable, therefore Christ exhorted sinners to cut off sinning limbs rather than go into Hell with two limbs "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched".

Next you'll be telling us there is no conscious existence of souls after death, and that all souls simply "sleep". That is the logical progression for those who deny the reality of Hell. It is not SIMPLY absence of life without Christ!

Nowhere does the Bible teach such a thing. Satan and his evil angels themselves will be receiving the just and righteous eternal punishment that they deserve in Hell.

HOWEVER, BECAUSE GOD WANTS NO HUMAN BEING IN HELL, HE SENT THE SAVIOUR. WE NOW HAVE THE GOSPEL. ALL SHOULD BELIEVE, ALL SHOULD REPENT, AND ALL SHOULD RECEIVE CHRIST AS LORD AND SAVIOUR. ALSO, ALL BELIEVERS SHOULD TAKE THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE!

Sinners will be in Hell because they turned their backs on the Saviour. Not because He turned His back on them! (Jn. 3:14 -36).

So what do you think about John, 6:44, Sower,  "No one comes to me unless the Father who sent me draws him"?

This Scripture must be understood in light of another which says "And I, if I be lifted up, will draw ALL MEN to myself" and another which says "The Spirit and the Bride say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL liet him take of the water of life freely."

God -- the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- all work together on the heart of the sinner to bring him or her to the Saviour, because "The Son of Man is come to SEEK  and to SAVE that which was lost".  THis is the true nature of God's grace towards ALL MANKIND.

Ecc. 3:11, "He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet no man can fathom what God has done for them from beginning to end." So who do you think puts the desire for God in our hearts? Who do you think snatches the word away from us so that we don't believe Him? Matthew, 13:18, "Listen to what the parable of the sower means,: "When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart." John, 8:43-44, "Because you are unable to hear what I say, you belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry our his desires."  We are either ruled by the Holy Spirit or the devil. Eph. 1:4-5, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blamesless in his sight. In love, he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ in accordance with his pleasure and will-..." who do you think is doing the choosing, Sower?

Heidi,

Can anything or anyone that God chooses fail?

-Samson

God decides circumstances and knows what will happen. He planned for Jesus to redeem us from the beginning. The messiah was prophesied early on in the bible. Therefore, He knew that we would sin and allows it for OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING, because pain is what brings us to Him, nothing else. The very fact that He steps in at times shows that when he DOESN'T step in, He has a reason for it. No, God's plans can never fail.

Let me rephrase my question:

Can an individual that God chooses fail?

Tis mercy that any man is saved. Who is man in the face of GOD. When God is the standard man is filithy. Tis only HIS grace and mercy that any are saved. We all diserve death not one is good not one seeks God. The question to me is not  "why does God punish those He didn't choose?" But why does HE save any. God is sovereign I think because of the times we live in man has no idea of the meaning of the word sovereign. We are the clay He the potter.

Rom 9:15
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion
KJV.

Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
KJV

Isa 64:6
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
KJV

Ps 14:3
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
KJV

Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
KJV

Rom 9:17
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
KJV

Rom 9:21
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
KJV

Rev 4:11-5:1
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
KJV

Reba - I agree.

I believe all mankind is "chosen" because God's love is limitless.  Jesus God doesn't reject people - people reject Jesus God.  Therefore, God doesn't punish those He didn't choose; rather He punishes those who do not choose Him.

John 12:44.  Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
 45.  And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
 46.  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
 47.  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
 48.  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Ollie
 

yeah, that


and that

So what you're saying then is that God is sometimes wrong in choosing people. You're also saying that our will is stronger than God's will. I heartily disagree. Jesus said; "I can do nothing without the Father." He gives all of the credit for His power to God, not Himself. Once Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit, it then ruled Him. The devil is NOT stronger than the Holy Spirit! All of His revelations came from God Himself. John, 8:27-28, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."   It is the Holy Spirit that empowers us and enables us to believe in Christ as the only way to God. The ones whose names were written in the book of life in the beginning can't be erased, nor can new ones be added. Otherwise the book of life would be meaningless. In addition, if everyone's name was in the book of life, then it wouldn't have needed to be written.

I absolutely never said that.  God has never, is never, and will never be wrong.

Our interpretations sometimes really stink - But it is impossible for God to be wrong.

Impossible.  THAT is a fact.

I agree.

Didn't Jesus choose Judas, and weren't the chosen people of God cut off from the root of Abraham, temporarily for the sake of the Gentiles? Chosen can mean different things in scripture and has much to do with context. What appears to be failure can and will be victory with God. Because a chosen people failed to receive their own, salvation was given to the Gentiles.
God's sovereignty and omniscience are unquestionable, but we don't understand it, being ignorant of such power to stand inside of eternity. God's decisions about us or others may not appear as just sometimes, but with His power of omniscience, He knows and is just, as He proclaims Himself to be in the scriptures.

De 32:4  He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Isa 45:21  Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Zep 3:5  The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.

John, 17:12, "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." Jesus makes it clear that God is in control of our lives and that Judas was "doomed to destruction." Chosen means ONE thing ins scripture and that is the chosen people of God. You are right when you say that it sometimes looks like the chosen are not chosen, but that is from human understanding, not God's knowledge.