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Why is it that Christians, go along with halloween, easter, and other pagan holidays and justify it by saying it is for the children. Church's are really bad at this. I can't tell the world from the church. Why is this happening? :'(

There are a lot of Christian families who believe that, in the sense of 1Corinthians 8, the "satanic" influences of Hallowe'en and other pagan-born holidays have no power over them, and that they can enjoy some of the aspects of these celebrations as free persons in Christ.

I would not condemn these people; they may be stronger in their faith than I am. If their hearts do not condemn them, and they are not causing other believers to fall, I don't think they will be held accountable for dressing up on October 31st and asking for candy.

But I do think it is important that we know the true meaning of many of the holidays we celebrate; the histories are sometimes very satanic.

I do not consider Easter to be a "pagan" holiday; it is the day that Christ rose, just after Passover. But the eggs and rabbits have ancient ties which have nothing to do with the resurrection. They come from the druidic practice of worhsipping spring and fertility.

But then, some Christians use eggs to teach their children that Christ has rose again, like a chick breaking out of an egg. Or they use this example to say we have been given new life. When God's people are worshipping Him and enjoying His wonderful creation, is this wrong?  ???

Why is it that Christians make such a big deal about Halloween, Easter, and other “pagan” holidays, or feel that they even need to use an excuse to do things on this day at all? Guess what, Pagans use the same internet as you, they drink the same water as you, and they even breath Oxygen like you do. You may stop surfing the net, and never drink water again if you, and stop breathing, but as for me, I think I we celebrate Gods gifts ,and ignore the fact that some things Non-Christians do coincide wit that I do. Today, I said to my self “This is the day that the lord has made” and Tomorrow I will say “This is the day that the lord has made” and come October 31, come Halloween, I will still say “This is the day that the lord has made.” Come Christmas, I will still say “This is the day that the lord has made.” When New years rolls around, I will still say “This is the day that the lord has made.” When I birthday comes around, I will say “This is the day that the lord has made.” When Easter comes around, I will still say “This is the day that the lord has made.” And you know what? Out of the approximately 365 days of this Pagan Calendar we go by, every last one of them is made by God. Every single one is hand crafted by the Creator. Neo-Druids didn’t invent October 30, God did. The Pagans only used it. I am not going to give excuses for going to Halloween parties, or exchanging Christmas presents, or go on an Easter egg hunt. These are days God made, the Pagans who celebrate on these days should be thankful the Lord let them worship false Gods in HIS day. They should be the ones making excuses, not us!

That’s my 2 cents.

Chris

Oklahoma Howdy to Tibby,

AMEN! Brother. The LORD has made every day and we worship him 365/24/7. ALMIGHTY GOD IS INFINITELY MORE POWERFUL than anyone or anything that could claim influence on even 1 minute a year. If 1 minute was in question, I would worship ALMIGHTY GOD in that 1 minute also.

In Christ,
Tom

;D

Every day is a day that the Lord has made and it should be honored and hailed as holy. The word of God also states that my people perish from lack of knowledge. As christians we should all be aware that our actions causes reactions and we can lead people astray by doing things that exalts itself above the knowledge of God. We will be held accountable one way or the other.I pray that every reader will "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness" I also pray that every reader will ask the Lord to walk them into all truth. I believe that Easter was never to be linked with the resurrection of Christ, nor the birth of Christ with santa. If we don't stand for the truth and teach our children to stand for what is Good, Pure and Holy they will fall for anything. Jesus has done too much for us not to live Holy for him. I believe that when you get saved, filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit and delivered from whatever, We are new creatures in Christ and old things are passed away and behold all things become new. If we still act and behave as the world what difference do we make in the world. We are to be set aside for Christ. I understand that growth is a process but it's time to get off of milk and get onto solid foods.

And why should Easter not be related to Jesus in some way? No, we do not want to lead people astray, but do you know the ratio of Christian to non-Christians that know Easter is a Pagan Holiday is? You ask most non-Christians, the VAST majority of them will say it is a Christian Holiday. Which it is, now. Oh, It has Pagan roots. Oh, so what? If a person who is born with Pagan parents, raised a pagan, and have “Pagan roots” can be saved by Christ, why can’t we reclaim a day for Jesus? When Jesus comes into the Picture, that kind of History is erased. We are no longer sinners, and the day is no longer a “Pagan day” if you can even attribute it to the Pagans at first.

We are to not act the way the world does? The World posts on Forums. If you honestly believe what you preach, then stop posting here! The Internet was not maybe by Christians for Christ. Stop using Bulletin Boards like the world does and go live in a cave!

The point is that we are to be set apart, but COME ON! You are making an issue out of non-issues. Why does it matter if we celebrates Christ’s death and resection at Easter or the Forth of July? Do you think they really want us to switch days and run away from everything non-Christian? Do you think that is set apart? Set apart is HOW we live our life, not WHEN we celebrate a holiday.

You are right who knows who invented the internet, and yes I do understand that everything is the Lords and the fullness thereof. I still believe that as Christians "We live in this world but are not of this world", being new creatures in Christ. In the bible Easter is automatically known as a pagan holiday not the celebration of the Resurrection of Christ. If celebrating Holloween, Santa Claus, Harry Potter, Witchcraft, and anything else satanic makes you happy then go for what you know. Believe me I will not stand in your way. I am not going to argue with carnal minded christians. If what you believe in is true then so be it, we all have been given the gift of free will, but believe this for all those who know the truth and teach false doctrine will be held accountable.
STAND UP FOR THE GOSPEL, AND BRING DOWN EVERYTHING THAT EXALTS ITSELF ABOVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD!

 halloween is only 4 days away :)

Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Joy

Brother Love :)

The rabbits, eggs etc. may come from the ancient worship of the fertility goddess; but Easter itself is the anniversary of Christ's resurrection. It falls after the Jewish holiday Passover, which was probably the last meal Jesus ate. He is risen - He is risen indeed!

Oklahoma Howdy to Hunibuni,

This would obviously be your opinion, and many Christians do not share your opinion. They would not be carnal Christians because they don't share your opinion. There is an opposite side of the coin that is completely valid. I choose not to allow the devil to claim a single day as his own. I and many others worship Almighty God on Christmas, Easter, and every day. Would we honor the devil by allowing him to claim that day or any day? There is a lengthy history of Christians trying to reclaim days for God and take them away from the devil. As an ancient example, prior to midnight is Halloween and after midnight is All Saints Day. I say that prior to midnight also belongs to Almighty God.

One could take this example on and on, but the same message would come across that many Christians refuse to allow any day to be devoted to the devil or in honor of the devil. Here's one last example. A Christian decides to hand out Bible tracts in a rough area of town filled with prostitutes and dope dealers. Is the Christian honoring prostitutes and dope dealers? Further, is the Christian carnal in this action? The answer is "NO".

In Christ 365/24/7,
Tom

The Military invented the net. The bible doesn’t even tal about the cyber space, does it? No, but it does talk about days, and how Holy every single one is, because God made it. And BEP said “I choose not to allow the devil to claim a single day as his own.”

As for “BRING DOWN EVERYTHING THAT EXALTS ITSELF ABOVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD!” Have you every thought that by not taking back these days, YOU are exalting these days above God? From the way you talk, it is clear you don’t believe the power of God and penetrate a 24 hour period because ages ago a few people who where never told about Jesus to begin with started celebrating the sun or the moon? Sounds like you are Exalting Legalism over God to me.

As I said before if this is your belief so be it. Every day is the Lords day and yes each day is to be celebrated as such. I don't believe in putting titles to day to be celebrated and as you said yourself this is a day that the Lord has made and everyday not just one day should be set aside for the fruits of the Spirit to be revealed. This is also a wicked world and there should be some distinction between saints and sinners. As far as not being in the Knowledge of God, let me say this, if you believe that everyday is the Lords then why would it need to be reclaimed. You are not making yourself clear to me. This statement lets me know that you don't believe in the Power of God if you believe it has or can be taken away by the devil. I am not arguing the case of everyday being the day that the Lord has made. I am saying that as Saints(Children of the Most High God) These events on any day should not be celebrated by us.

I agree with Tibby that every day is made by the Lord. I agree with HuniBuni that we should not celebrate death, which is so prevalent in Holloween and does have pagan roots that should be dead and gone. I think the best solution is to have Harvest parties. Dress up as holy characters, or as a drachma. I personally celebrate Reformation Day, which falls on October 31st. I think it's sad that eveyone knows about Holloween, but I didn't even know about Reformation Day until five years ago. And I'm Reformed. Something mighty disturbing about that. But if I see a Christian celebrating Holloween, I'm positive they're not celebrating paganism, even if that was the original event. They're just having fun eating candy and dressing up. It's what's in their hearts that counts. If they have set aside Jesus as Lord and don't feel they're offending Him, then maybe they're just having fun.

Hunibuni- What I said isn’t contradictory. Allow to me make my self clear for those who don't speak the Tib: I was talking through 2 different eye. The First is the eyes of Christians, Jesus, Satan and all the rest who know the truth. God owns all. The Second are thru the eyes of the lost. To them, days like Halloween are Satan’s day. We have to take it back of there sake. We are the only Jesus most of them will see, and cowering in our homes and churches on October 31 isn’t a good way to show Jesus.  Walk out proudly October 31! This is your Spiritual Fathers day!

That is the spirit Whitehorse. Instead of looking for bad, look for good!

Happy Halloween! Happy Reformation Day! ;D

I'm dressing up as Martin Luther.

You mean Mary Luther, don’t you? ;)

I'm going as Strongbad. Or I will if I can find a luchador mask!

Well, just to add another view, do remember that Halloween is a PAGAN holiday, and that TRUE PAGANS do NOT believe in Satan. That's right-do not BELIEVE in Satan. It's hard to worship something when you don't believe in it, right? The Christian religion consists (primarily) of God, Jesus the Christ, and Satan. Paganism focuses on the earth and its deities, which definitely do NOT consist of Satan. There is NO such thing as a Satanist Pagan. So please be careful when pointing fingers, guys. Rather than just say it because that's what everyone else says, RESEARCH it first. I was very surprised when I discovered Pagans aren't Satanic!

So in the end, Halloween is fun for everyone. If you feel threatened by it, you don't have to celebrate it. But if you doubt you should because you think it has Satanic roots, fear not! Because Pagans developed the holiday and Pagans aren't Satanic.

Hope this helps a little. Just trying to clear up some mistruths that I've noticed!

:)

love and light

Modern Pagans are syncretistic. They do worship Satan, if they want. They also worship Jesus, Ala, Buddha, Zeus, and Trogdor the Bruninator, if they so choose.

Satanism is glorified Humanism, what a Judeo-Christian deity for the soul purpose of annoying Christians. I don't think anyone thinks Satanist are Pagan.

Actually, his wife's name was Katy. An interesting fact about her: she was so upset that Martin continually closed himself in his study all night that when he went to work one day, she actually removed the door to his study!  :D

Halloween is the happiest day of the year for me.


(http://www.addamsfamily.com/addams/lurchtvlg.jpg)


    ;D

 :D

Oklahoma Howdy to Malificent,

You are new here, so I'll try to help you out a little bit. Christianity is a way of life with Almighty God being the Creator and the Lord over all. I'm telling you these things to help you get along with other users, especially considering that you are on a Christian Forum.

Almighty God is ONE GOD in three Holy Deities:  God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I know this may be difficult to understand, but Almighty God is the Holy Trinity. The Son of God is also known as Jesus, Jesus Christ, and Christ. There are many other names in the Holy Bible that refer to Almighty God. As an example, Jesus is The Word, The Way, The Truth, The Life, and many other names that are all Holy. You will get along better with Christians here if you always remember that proper respect must be shown to Almighty God whether you believe or don't believe.

You say that you don't believe in satan, but you believe in other earth deities. I hope the following statement helps you understand the basic teachings of the Holy Bible. The worship or recognition of any deity other than Almighty God is of the devil or satan. It really wouldn't matter what you called the deity or what it represents, it would be the devil. If you are really interested in asking questions about Almighty God and Christianity, understanding this basic foundation will help you understand the thoughts and statements of Christians.

Let me give you just a couple more examples to help you understand. This is not to upset you, rather it is to help you get along here if you really want to ask some questions and understand what Christians are telling you. If you recognize or worship Thor or any number of other deities other than Almighty God, you recognize and worship the devil. If a rock is your chosen deity, the rock is the devil.

I hope this helps you out some.

OK Blackeyed thanks for your insight! That totally clears up a lot of things that have been said to me then. But even though the Pagan religion has historical proven roots that it has been around since BEFORE Christianity, anything that is Pagan is now the devil? Even though it's been around since before the time of the devil?

Do you see where I'm coming from? In my eyes it's almost like Christianity saw someone else's product and slapped their own negative image on it because this "new religion" (at the start of Christianity) made God feel threatened (I guess). If God is so powerful, why does he demand that everyone worship Him? Because they're his creations? Do parents demand that their children respect them? Yes, many do. But when their children (their creations) turn against them, do the parents kill their children or banish them? No way (unless the parents are troubled mentally). And why would God send his own beautiful creations; his children, into hell if they are merely confused and not sure what to believe? It seems as if he is punishing those who are even confused. To be honest, I know of some people that are not Christians because they hear too much hypocricy from Christians (i.e. some Christians think homosexuality is OK, others definitely don't. Some think you can pray without a bible, others say there's no way you can pray without a bible). These are only a few of the things I have heard. So until everyone decides who God really is, only then will we all be able to follow in His footsteps.

Love and light

The devil was around before the world was created. satan works through delusions, by twisting things to seem like something else. He will use 99% truth to float one percent lie. Now imagine yourself in a ship, and you're one degree off course. Doesn't seem very significant, does it? Until, of course, you travel 1000 miles. Then you find out that the smallest lie changes absolutely everything.

By worshipping false gods, you are worshipping demons. can you see why that is offensive to God? He didn't make you so you could live the life you want. He created you with much greater purpose than that. He created you to serve Him. Would your parents be upset if you dieowned them and called a stranger mother or father? You wouldn't dream of doing such a thing, even though your parents are not your creator. If you ride a horse, you expect the horse to obey you, even though you didn't create it or maybe even own it. So does God, who created you for His own purposes, not have a right to your submission? Think about who God is. Think about what we peanut human beings are. Who are we to tell Him we're doing what we want with the days He created for us to do His will? And His will always prevents our destruction. We choose our own way-and destruction. satan is a mighty cruel master. He doesn't give you any choice-he'd possess you if he could to force you to do his will. With God it is always by choice, But if you do not choose wisely, you will receive the due for your decision. God has a right to decide who He lets into his house, same as you choose. If you choose your froends, why shouldn't He? After all, He made you and all your friends put together.


Made God feel threatened? Do you have any idea who your talking about? Does a finite emperor feel threatened? What about the eternal, all powerful God? If you can go outside and create anything out of nothing, even a dead branch, I'm sure God will consider you a contender.


Because that is His due. You'd be angry if you worked for a week and your boss gave your salary to another worker, just because he felt like it. Why? Because that money was your due. God as creator. Meditate on that. Aks God (respectfully, if you're wise) to show you who He is. Believe it, and He will.


Because He made His will known and they rejected it because they thought God should bow to their will, even though man is nothing but a vapor. And no one is His child unless they are under the blood of Jesus Christ. His creation, yes. His children? No. Same as if you disowned your parents and asked to be legally adopted by someone else, which is what you're doing when you refuse to come to the Lord.

The inportant thing is, we;ve sinned. We all deserve hell. We don't make the rules, but we have the gall to live as though we do. That is very worthy of hell. If unrepentant, we make the choice to abandon God, so we can't hold Him responsible for our rebellion. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."


God promises to be found by those who diligently seek Him. That puts the ball in our court.

28:9And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

It's dangerous to worry about this, although many people do, because each person is responsible for his/her own decision to seek the Lord. Many people use this as an excuse so they don't have to do what they know they have to do. But it's not wise to make your decision on what others who profess to be Christians do. And in fact, most people who accuse Christians of hypocrisy are far worse than those they condemn. As it is written:

Color=blue]Romans 14:4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. [/color]

Just learn to love the Lord. That's all that matters, and it will save you a bundle of griefs: aids, liver damage from drinking, premature death from all sorts of lifestyle habits, single parenthood, lots of things that can really ruin your life. But the bottom line is, this life is a flash in the pan. It's the next one that matters. God isn't mean-He took the beatings on His own back for sins He never committed. If anything is unfair, that is. But He didn't grumble. He did it willingly.

I would just like to point out, without siding one way or the other, that if the only difference your God has made in your life is whether or not you celebrate Christmas, Easter, or Halloween, then you could not handle the meat of the word that will make your life different.  It isn't seen in the refraining from nebulous ideas.  "All things are lawful for me...but I will not be brought under the power of any."  Lawful, but not necessarily expedient.  Lawful, but possibly a potential "idol of the heart."

I do not speak in contention or anger sister.  I speak the truth in love.  Jesus didn't die to make Himself evident in matters of law.  He died to conform our lives to His.  It is in this that we are seen differently.  

Oklahoma Howdy to Malificent,

Almighty God is without beginning or end for infinity. Almighty God and the devil were before man. Pagans or man didn't invent the devil, and Almighty God was being worshiped before there was a hint of anything pagan.

Christianity is called that because of Jesus Christ dying on the cross for the sins of man some two thousand years ago. However, that event was not the start of worshiping Almighty God. Recognition and worship of Almighty God began at the beginning, the Creation of man by Almighty God. Paganism evolved over a period of time after the original sin in the Garden of Eden. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but the roots of paganism developed in uncivilized people known as heathen. Primarily, they were without Almighty God and worshiped the devil or any number of other entities who were also the devil.  

OK but Blackeyed, do consider the fact that without the explanation of Satan dished out by christians, these people (Pagans) worshipped, in their eyes, a god or goddess. They knew nothing about Satan because Satan was explained in the bible, which came out long after Pagans were doing their thing. Now you may think that they were worshiping the devil because they were worshiping some deitie(s) that were not the god you speak of, but THEY didn't know any better. They decided a nature goddess was what they wanted to worship and to this day that is what many Pagans do. And to this day, no matter how much you parade the idea that they are worshiping the devil, your threats will be falling on closed ears. Pagans don't listen to christians for the most part for many different reasons. There's not much that can be done about that. I realize that you weren't trying to hurt my feelings, but it just makes no sense to me, no matter how it's explained, that one who doesn't even know the devil exists, is worshiping the devil. I see how in your eyes that makes sense, but since I don't believe in the devil myself, I personally disagree. But you did explain why Christians say that heathens worship the devil, so thank you for that.

As for the other explanations, they were also extremely helpful. Very good scenarios to help me understand.

*sigh*  :) OK the next issue is this: we are all undoubtedly sinners. Unfortunately this is something that will never change. And why? Because we are all human. Essentially to be 100%sin-free, you must be perfect, like Jesus. Jesus was a deity in a human body during his time on this earth. Are we to make ourselves into deities? This is impossible so why crap a brick when you have sinned? You are a human being! Jesus was sent to Earth to die for out sins. He was perfect because he was a deity supposedly on earth as a human. It's good to try to make yourself like Jesus, but impossible to make yourself exactly like Jesus. It's good to try, but sin is inevitable. And no matter what anyone says to me, I will knowingly sin probably for the rest of my life just because I don't believe, so what is the point of trying to get everyone to stop sinning? You obviously know that not everyone is going to want to. So I guess my question is this: what do you hope to do with us heathens?

:)

love and light

God always had communion with His people. The assumption behind your argument is that there is not a actual, living God at work, since you place the origins of all things, including satan and the truth taught about him, in the realm of mankind. This also discounts the supernatural realm as a whole.

Oklahoma Howdy to Malificent,

I didn't make any threats. I simply stated Biblical truth. You are here for some reason, whatever that is. If you are here with closed ears, what is your purpose?


Give you the GOOD NEWS, the Gospel of the Grace of God, and invite you to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. We were all dead in trespasses and sin before we accepted Jesus, so we have all been where you are now, and we didn't like it. The Biblical comparison is between darkness and LIGHT. Peace and joy is just the beginning in LIGHT, and we have no desire to return to darkness.

I am glad to know that we can agree to disagree. I pray that as everyone go out to celebrate this event that you re-evaluate your motives and just for one moment in time ask your Heavenly Father, Savior, and Holy Spirit is this pleasing in their sight. What ever His response is for you is what is right for you. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord in that way that he has lead us too. May the Good Lord continue to walk us into all truth. For with all your getting (candy on this day) get understanding.

"I was very surprised when I discovered Pagans aren't Satanic!"

Now there is a catch 22 situation if ever there is one. The very nature of it makes it of Satan. "Nature Goddess indeed!

Oh gosh blackeyed I'm sorry, I didn't make that clear :) I didn't mean that YOU specifically were making threats, rather any Christian that says, "You are going to hell". That is a threat, and an offensive one to those who prefer freedom of religion. Sorry about that!! ;)

And you said that you are trying to inform the "lost" that Christianity is wonderful and to accept Jesus as their personal savior etc. etc... Well what if other people see Jesus differently than you? I personally am afraid of the Christian religion. No matter what ANYONE says, I will most likely never be turning back to Christianity. My new question is: would God rather I say I believe in him just so i don't go to hell? If someone doesn't believe in something, they just don't. And sometimes it takes proof to make someone believe. That is why I don't believe. You can't just say, "believe in God and Jesus or burn in hell," because essentially, you are telling me to believe in something as real as the tooth fairy. Sorry; I wish I could believe sometimes, but honestly, I LOVE my life as an atheist.

:)

Love and light

Christmas and TRUTH?

   Have you ever wondered how important truth is to the Christian? The Scriptures have much to say about truth. By doing a word study on truth one will see that God places a high value on truth. By doing a word search on truth my Bible program listed 224 verses alone. Here are some of the things we learn about truth as we study the Scriptures.

1. The Lord Jesus is truth:

   “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth , and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”  John 14:6

2. The Holy Spirit is truth and is called the Spirit of Truth:

   “This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.”  1 John 5:6
   
   “[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.”  John 14:17

3. God’s Word is truth:

   “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”   John 17:17

4. God seeks those that will worship Him in spirit and truth. Jesus said that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and truth:

   “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”  John 4:23-24


5.  Our sanctification is through truth (verse above John 17:17):

   “And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the  truth.”  John 17:19

6. God’s will is for believers to walk in the truth and to speak truth one to another:

   “But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:”  Eph. 4:15

   “Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.”  Eph. 4:25

   “The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever. Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.”  2 John 1:1-4

7. True Christian Love rejoices in the truth:

   “Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;”  1 Cor. 13:6

8. The Lord’s super is to be kept in truth:

   “Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.”  1 Cor. 5:8

   The above verses are only a small portion of what God’s Word has to say concerning truth, yet with just this small sample one can easily see how important truth is to God. Truly God places a high value on truth and so should we if we claim to be His children.
   On the other hand you have Satan and his followers who despise truth and love lying. Below is one of the conversations that the Lord Jesus had with the followers of Satan:

   “Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.”  John 8:44-45

   One might wonder who these wicked children of the devil were? Surly, they must have been the very scum of the earth, those who practiced every vice and evil imaginable to man. Surly, Jesus must of been speaking to those who were like Hitler and Stalin, Jeffery Dahmer and Ted Bundy, Anton Szandor La Vey and Marlin Manson etc. Although people like these are excellent candidates, they are not the type of people the Lord Jesus was speaking to. Believe it or not, Jesus was speaking to the religious leaders of His day. Those who were suppose to be defenders and champions of the truth. Those who were charged with teaching the truth to the children of Israel. The very ones who should have been the first to recognize that Jesus was the Christ their long awaited Messiah. Yet according to Jesus these religious leaders were Satan’s children.
   Stop and think about this for a minute. Satan’s most successful attacks against Jesus came from the religious leaders of His day. From those that held sway over the masses by their religious lies and religious rituals who all the time thought that they were serving the true God of Israel. Those who persuaded Pilot to kill the Lord Jesus Christ. If Satan was so effective in infiltrating Israel’s religious leadership in those days do you think that maybe he might be doing the same with the church today? God’s Word says that he is:

   “For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”   2 Cor. 11:13-15

   Some good questions to ask yourselves are, who are these people today? How can I recognize them? What do they teach? How can I protect myself from their deceptive lies? How do I stand against them seeing that they are in places of leadership? All good questions that need to be answered.
   The Lord Jesus recognized them because they had much in common with their true spiritual father, Satan! Satan is the father of lies, therefore his children will be those who promote lies, not just any lie but religious lies. Lies about salvation, lies about God, lies about the Lord Jesus, lies about religion, lies on how to worship and please God. The lies that Satan uses to deceive Christians are sugar coated with the truth, lies that are pleasant to the taste and appealing to human reasoning. Satan knows that in order to get Christians off the path of righteousness he must be clever in his lies and make them appear as good and righteous, if he has to sprinkle his lies with truth so that Christians will eat of his fruit he will do it. Satan will use as much truth as necessary just so long as he can get Christians to eat his spiritual poison. He knows it is the poison in his mix that really counts and he doesn’t care how much healthy spiritual food one has to eat just as long as they eat the poison with it. We need to remember that Satan is not out to help us in our walk with God, but to kill, steal and destroy.
Continued

continued
   Makers of rat poison do the same. They take food that appeals to the taste of rats, food that under different circumstances would make rats healthy and strong. They take this food and lace it with a little bit of poison, not much, just enough to kill the rats who eat of it. The makers of rat poison use the healthy good tasting food to lure rats into eating the poison that is laced in it. It’s a very clever technique that gets very good results.
   Satan gets very good results with this technique also. One of the best religious lies that Satan and his helpers use today is Christmas. Many will be shocked at this statement, saying “Christmas! Dear brother, have you gone mad!” No! I haven’t gone mad. If Christmas is of God it surly would past the test of truth which it does not. Christmas involves worship and Jesus said that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and TRUTH. Let’s take a close look at Christmas and see if it can hold up to the test of truth.
   The term “Christmas” itself is an unholy mixture and an abomination before God when used in reference to the real Lord Jesus Christ. Here we plainly see Satan’s cleverness, he takes the term “Christ” which is holy and good and combines it with the term “mass” which is an unholy religious lie. Satan mixes the holy with the unholy knowing that  it will be harder for the non-discerning Christian to reject. The Catholic mass is a denial of the Scriptures. The Word of God teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ suffered one time for sins and then sat down at the right hand of God.

   “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”  Heb.9:24-26

   “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”  Heb. 10:10-14

   The Catholic Church teaches that the mass is a continuation of Christ sacrifice for sins. They claim that the wafer is turned into the literal body of the Lord Jesus and that the wine is literally turned into the blood of Christ Jesus. They call this ritual “Transubstantiation”.  Therefore according to Catholic doctrine The Lord Jesus Christ is offered as a sacrifice over and over every time mass is held. God’s Word is crystal clear in that Jesus suffered only one time in history for the sins of the world. Jesus Himself cried out while on the cross “It is finished”, yet the Catholic Church claims that it is not finished and that the Lord’s sacrifice continues with each and every mass.
   The true Christ and the mass are opposed to each other. Christ is truth, the mass, a religious lie, they can't be mixed. Christ affirms the Scriptures and the mass denies them. If Christians who use the term "Merry Christmas" knew what they were really saying I doubt they would continue using the term. After all what is merry about the mass of Christ, it is a religious lie of the worst kind? It is a damnable heresy. What a shameful contradiction it is for true believers to wish someone a "Merry Christmas" when in truth the mass is responsible for sending souls to hell. What's so "Merry" about that? I can understand Satan wishing someone a "Merry Christmas", but I can't understand Christians doing the same! I wonder how many souls are
in hell right now, wailing and gnashing their teeth, because they believed the lie of the Catholic mass instead of the true gospel of salvation? When Christmas is used in reference to the Lord Jesus it is a lying contradiction in and of itself? I wonder how many Christians realize that they are using God's name in vain and profaning what is holy by using the term “Christmas in such a way?
   God commands us to put away lying and to speak truth one to another (Eph. 4:25) How can one wish someone a “Merry Christmas” without violating this clear command of God? The christ of the mass is a false christ, the gospel of the mass is a false gospel and God commands us to put these lies away and speak truth one to another. I have heard the excuse “well that’s not what Christmas means to me, and when I wish someone a “Merry Christmas” I don’t mean the mass of Christ”. Dear friend, with all due respect, it doesn’t matter what it means to you, it matters what its true meaning is. We do not have the right to change the definitions of words and use them any way we like. Words are specific in there meanings and they have to be in order to properly communicate to others. How about your Catholic friends? When you wish them a “Merry Christmas” are they going to know what you mean or are they going to be delighted that you are partaking in their religious lie? If you wish someone like me a “Merry Christmas” most likely you will hear in return that I do not partake of Catholic lies.   Another lie so often heard at Christmas is “He’s the reason for the season”. It’s a catchy phrase used by those that want to put Christ back into Christmas. The problem these people have is that the true Christ was never in Christmas to begin with. The christ that is in Christmas was never the true Christ but the false christ of the Roman Catholic Church. The true “reason for the season” is the Catholic Church not the Lord Jesus. The Roman Catholic Church is “the reason for the season”. They are the ones who invented Christmas by stealing it from the pagans and they are the ones who gave it to the professing church. Just about any encyclopedia will bare this out. Even those that defend Christmas as a Christian holiday admit this much.    

John 4:19 “The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.  20  Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.  21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.  22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.  23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.  24  God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”

Here is a case were the Lord Jesus gently rebukes a Samaritan woman over worship according to mans corrupt ways. Barnes notes on the New Testament has this to say about the above passage.

“22. (Ye worship ye know not what.) This probably refers to the comparative ignorance and corruption of the Samaritan worship. Though they received the five books of Moses, yet they rejected the prophets, and of course all that the prophets had said respecting the true God. Originally, also, they had joined the worship of idols to that of the true God. See 2 Kings xvii 26-34. They had moreover, no authority for building their temple and conducting public worship by sacrifices there. On all these accounts they were acting in an unauthorized manner. They were not worshiping the true God, nor offering the worship which He had commanded or would approve.

I find some amazing similarities between this and Christmass. Most who partake in Christmass are like the woman of Samaria whom Jesus said “Ye worship ye know not what”. Religious man took a pagan holiday that was in existence hundreds of years before Christ and adopted if for their own. They covered this pagan holiday with a veneer of Christianity and tried to force the true Christ into it by renaming pagan gods with the true God. Just like the Samaritans who had no authority to create their own form of worship, religious man does the same with Christmass. How can one even pretend to offer God true worship after the manner and traditions the pagans invented to worship their gods?  “Originally, also, they had joined the worship of idols to that of the true God.” This is the very same abomination that takes place in Christmass. Jesus told the woman that God is Spirit and that He must be worshiped in Spirit and truth. Christmass fails the test of truth from its very foundation on up. One can claim they are worshiping God all they want with their Christmass traditions but if it is not according to truth God will not accept it.

Pilgrim

::) I don’t even know where the begin...

In the Image of Christ
Colossians 3:8-11

“Convictions or Conveniences?”

“Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.” (1 Corinthians 16:13)

        Years ago, a friend and I owned a small business. At the time we had one employee. We all attended the same small gospel assembly. Our employee was just getting started in public preaching. I can remember one of his first sermons, it was on the subject of faith. In his attempt to explain what it meant to walk by faith he used the example of owning life insurance. He explained that having life insurance was not walking in faith and showed a lack of trust in the Lord. He spoke about this topic with great conviction and passion.
        A few weeks later my business partner and I were approached by our insurance agent, who told us of a great deal on life insurance that was being offered on a limited-time-only basis. My partner and I decided to take the offer and purchase the life insurance. We talked about offering this life insurance policy at the company’s expense to our employee, but remembered the message he preached about life insurance just a few weeks earlier. We both thought that he would turn down the offer without a second thought, based upon his publicly known “convictions.”
        However, to our surprise he didn’t even hesitate to take us up on the offer. When we asked him about his publicly known “convictions” against having life insurance, he said that he had done a lot of thinking on the matter lately and had changed his views. How convenient for him to simply change his views at the very time he was being offered “free life insurance!” Apparently, and to his own shame, this man’s convictions were very flexible and subject to change when it suited his own interest.
        Sadly, we often come across men like this whose convictions are really nothing more than conveniences. Under the right pressures or circumstances you will find out that most men really don’t have convictions, and what they passionately claim are strong convictions are nothing more than conveniences. I have heard that in other countries some Christians under the pains of torture and death have been told to renounce the Lord Jesus Christ. Some have even saved their lives by renouncing the Lord Jesus, or so they think!

        “And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father's, and of the holy angels.”   (Luke 9:22-26)

        Yet, many others over the ages have lost their lives under such circumstances, only to find them according to the above Scripture. A man once told me, “you never know what’s in a man until he’s squeezed!” How true that statement is. It’s easy to boldly proclaim one’s “convictions” when they haven’t been put to the test. But, test those same “convictions” by trials of persecution, or by temptations of pleasure and personal gain, and one will quickly find out what one is made of, convictions or conveniences.
        When the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians saying, “Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong” (1 Cor. 16:13), he basically was telling them to be men of true convictions and to stand firm without wavering in those convictions no matter the persecution or temptation. In those days it was harder to be a man of convictions; one’s faith was constantly being tested by trial, temptation, or both. Christians were being hunted down and persecuted for what they believed. Unlike today, the term “Christian” had true meaning and purpose. If one were to be called Christian in those days it meant that he had forsaken all other so-called gods and the pagan culture associated with them, to follow the one and true God, the Lord Jesus Christ.
        In today’s pluralistic mindset, you can call yourself a Christian and still embrace the pagan gods of old. In many of today’s so-called evangelical churches occult activities run rampant in such things as prayer visualizing techniques, prayer labyrinthian, yoga, 12 step programs, psychology, partaking in pagan holidays such as Halloween, Christmas and Easter, just to name a few. To be involved in these things ignorantly is one thing, but to continue in them after you have received the truth about them is quite another. Paul received the Lord’s mercy for his great sin of persecuting the church because he did it in ignorance (1 Tim. 1:12-17). Can you imagine what would have happened to Paul had he continued persecuting the church after the Lord Jesus revealed to him that he was really persecuting the very God he claimed to serve?
        Today’s church is suffering greatly from a lack of men of true conviction who are ready to suffer for what they believe, men who are true men, men who are sound in the faith. Today’s church is designed to meet one’s comfort level rather than bring spiritual health (“sound doctrine” means literally “healthy doctrine”). The emphasis is on making people feel comfortable, therefore you dare not preach to them the whole counsel of God, but only the things that will make them feel good about themselves. Preaching against sin and repentance is shelved because they make one feel uncomfortable and folks will likely leave for a more comfortable environment that will tolerate their laxity and sin, or worse yet, partake in it. I was shocked driving home from work one October day when I saw a sign in a church parking lot saying, “Kids come here tonight for your Halloween treats.” Halloween treats!  What are so-called Christians doing partaking in pagan holidays? Sadly, many churches partake of this wicked holiday to a much greater degree by holding their own haunted houses and Halloween parties. One must ask whose side these so-called Christians are on anyway? With their mouth they profess the Lord, but in their activities they deny Him (Titus 1:16)
        What blasphemy it is for those claiming to be Christians to partake in the celebrations and customs that belong to the devil. Where are the “true men of conviction” in the church today? Why are they not opposing such wickedness? Do they think that God has said in vain, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]” (Eph. 5:11) or that He really didn’t mean it in regards to Halloween, or any of the other holidays that honor Satan, such as Christmas and Easter? I can hear the excuses of those without true convictions already saying, “We partake of these holidays for the children”, "everybody else is doing it,” “I have Christian liberty to partake in these events,” “it doesn’t mean the same things to me as it does the pagans,” “my family won’t understand if I take a stand against these things,” “my wife feels strongly about celebrating Christmas, it’s a big tradition in her family,” and you can go on and on. But God is not looking for excuses; He’s looking for men who will be men and that will stand firm upon His Word without compromise, not those without convictions that find it convenient for their own personal gain to ignore and disobey His Word.
        Dear friend, is your spiritual life one of strong convictions, or of weak compromise and conveniences? It takes a real man or woman to stand against the currents of this world. It’s much easier to go with the flow of this world and do as the world does than it is to stand against it. If you chose to be a man or woman of conviction, God says you will suffer persecution (2 Tim. 3:12). Unfortunately, most of the persecution will come from those that claim to be Christians who are so worldly that they even make the pagans blush.

        “And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will  serve  the LORD.” (Josh 24:15)

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Thank you, Pilgrim! Although I do not agree on every point in your articles, I appreciate your devotion and wisdom. You are a seeker and teacher of truth.

   How Is getting insurance showing you have no faith? Isn’t is possible that God was the one who gave you this one time only deal? Faith doesn’t protect you from getting harmed. The faith is that God will take care of you when bad things happen. And he doesn’t NEED lights and fireworks and smoke and magic to get you out of trouble. He can do things like give you shocking high tax return, or get you a great deal on insurance, for just 2 examples.

   Let me break it down for you. It’s like this, you can’t run away from everything the Pagans did. Pagans breathed, drank water, and ate. You know, Christmas is rooted in Paganism, so is Halloween. You know what else is rooted in Paganism? Modern English. The Characters we use, Pagans made them. Polytheistic, idol worshiping, human sacrificing Pagans. And then the Bisexual Heathen’s of the Greek culture took them and formed them into roughly the same letters we see today, and then the Romans, and then the Pagans of Gaul and Great Briton. And the Modern English language, a Pagan language, with countless additions from other Pagan languages. It is a synergism of countless Pagans Languages.
   Hey, Satan uses something that appeals to us (like communication) and lures us into using it. Our speech is laced with Paganism. Oh, we are raised with this language, like we are raised with Christmas. No one tells us the evil, Pagan roots of the spoken and written language, do they? The church has lied to us. So, we must let such things cause us to stumble. We have to stop speaking and writing the English Language. Not to convenient, is it?
   In today’s pluralistic mindset, you can call yourself a Christian and still embrace the pagan languages of old. In many of today’s so-called evangelical churches Non-Christian activities run rampant in such things as bibles written with the characters of Pagans, and sermons in English. To speak this language ignorantly is one thing, but to continue in using it after you have received the truth about it is quite another. Paul received the Lord’s mercy for his great sin of persecuting the church because he did it in ignorance (1 Tim. 1:12-17).Can you imagine what would have happened to Paul had he continued persecuting the church after the Lord Jesus revealed to him that he was really persecuting the very God he claimed to serve?*
        What blasphemy it is for those claiming to be Christians to use a language that belongs to the devil. Where are the “true men of conviction” in the church today? Why are they not opposing such wickedness? Do they think that God has said in vain, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]” (Eph. 5:11) or that he really didn’t mean it in regards to speaking a language made by Pagans or writing is with the characters made by the Bisexual, womanizing drunkards of Ancient Greece? I can hear the excuses of those without true convictions already saying, “But how will we talk to each other”, "everybody else is doing it,” “I have Christian liberty to speak in any chosen language,” “it doesn’t mean the same things to me as it does the pagans,” “my family won’t understand me if I start speaking Hebrew,” “my wife feels strongly about speaking English, she flunked out of French in High School,” and you can go on and on. But God is not looking for excuses; He’s looking for men who will be men and that will stand firm upon His Word without compromise, not those without convictions that find it convenient for their own personal gain to ignore and disobey His Word.
   Unless not using English is to inconvenient. Then I’ve sure God will understand if you Compromise. ::) Listen very carefully, and try not to miss the point this time. Satan can not take anything for his own. The only way he gets things is if we give it to him. That includes the language we speak and the days we exchange presents and give candy to children. Satan can no more own a day then you can own the wind. You can say “I just turned the fan on, I control the wind” and believe it all you want, but the wind, the air, the rocks, the trees, the land, the days, the nights, and the language all belongs to God.






*Paul received forgiveness for his sins because he asked God to forgive him, because Jesus died on the Cross for his sins. Pre-mutated sin is a whole other issue.
**I’m going to pretend like I didn’t read the distorted views of Catholicism in these well-written, but poorly thought out posts. Lets try and keep this thread on the topic of Holidays.  

In the Image of Christ
Colossians 3:8-11

“Christ-mass”

     “Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus  saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.  For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”     Jeremiah 10:1-4


        It may come as a surprise to many that the origin of Christmas actually predates the birth of Jesus Christ by hundreds of years.  Perhaps it comes as an even greater surprise that the origin of Christmas is rooted in heathen religions and beliefs, and not the Word of God.  This is easily verified with just a little research, research that amazingly few are willing to do. Personally I have examined many encyclopedias, newspaper articles, the internet, and pagan as well as Christian sources.  All the resources that I have studied trace the origin of Christmas back to heathen religions and beliefs well before the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

        Did you realize that no one knows on what day the Lord Jesus was born.  You can search the Bible from cover to cover and you will not find from its pages what day the Lord Jesus was born.  In fact the Bible tells us that the shepherds were keeping watch over their flock by night at the time the Lord Jesus was born indicating mild weather, certainly not the dead of winter (Luke 2:6-8).  It was the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century A.D. who chose December 25 as the day to celebrate the birth of Christ.  It chose December 25 because it was the time that the heathen were celebrating Natalis Solis Invicti, the birthday of the Unconquerable Sun.  Instead of condemning the idolatrous festivities and practices of the heathen, the Church of Rome absorbed them and “Christianized” them.  Instead of celebrating the birth of the god’s of the heathen’s they now would celebrate the birth of Jesus.  Instead of SUN worship they now would have SON worship.  The Roman Catholic Church called December 25 “Christmas” which means, “the Mass of Christ”. Almost all of the heathens customs and forms of celebrating were retained by the Church and given different meanings (see The Two Babylons, by Hislop).  Thus the Roman Church allowed the heathen to continue their idolatrous ways under the guise of celebrating Christ’s birthday with the Church of Rome’s blessings.

        Our opening text clearly exhorts, “Learn not the way of the heathen”. What is the way of the heathen here? They take a tree from the forest, they deck it with gold and silver, and they fasten so it doesn’t move. Sounds very much like the Christmas tree wouldn’t you agree? It amazes me that people calling themselves  Christians take part in this without any indication from the Scriptures that it was preformed at Christ birth or afterwards. The Gospels, Acts, the Epistles and Revelation give neither example nor teaching on which to found such a celebration. Does no one wonder where, then, such celebrations came from? Why, unbelievers do the same thing with no regard to Christ at all! How can Christians supposedly be worshiping Christ through this, while at the same time unbelievers are celebrating with no reverence to HIM at all? You must ask yourself in the light of our Scripture, who’s right and who’s wrong? After all what does a pine tree have to do with Christ birth?  Nowhere in the Scriptures do we read of God’s people embracing the way of the heathen with God’s blessing. Whenever God’s people adopt the ways of the heathen it eventually brings God’s judgment upon them. In the book of Colossians we read the following warning.

     “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”  Colossians 2:8

        Friends, one of Satan’s greatest tools of deceptions is his ability to transform himself into an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:13-15).  It is by this means that he seeks to deceive the Christian.  Christmas is apparently one of his greatest deceptions ever, since it is so widely accepted and defended, and people seem to be held captive by it in spite of its lack of Biblical support.  This is a strange phenomenon! Surely if Christmas was of God it would easily stand the test of Scripture, but it does not.  With just a little research an unbiased person who is a seeker of truth would clearly see that Christmas is a lie based upon “the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”  This is abundantly clear when one learns that Christmas and almost all of its trimmings predate the birth of Christ by hundreds of years.  We would do well to heed the warning of Colossians 2:8 and BEWARE least we become SPOILED by the vain deceit of Christmas.

        John 4:24 says “God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”  How can we even pretended to honor and worship God in participating in Christmas when it is based in vain deceit rather than truth?  John 4:24 says that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and TRUTH. There is no room for compromise here, no matter how well meaning or sincere one may be in their participation in Christmas.  Where is the Biblical doctrine of Christmas celebrating? There is none! Christmas fails the test of Scripture.

        Many professing Christians have already been spoiled by the vain deceit of Christmas. This is evidenced by the fact that they refuse to allow God’s Word to judge their participation in the idolatrous practices of Christmas.  On this subject, apparently, the Bible does not matter. It appears that their minds are made up and they don’t want to be confused by the facts. To them Christmas is like a sacred cow, not to be touched or criticized by anyone, even the Lord!  How sad and grieved the Lord must be over this. Not once in the Scriptures do we find the Lord reflecting on HIS birth. Instead we find HIM consistently pointing to the future to the salvation that He would secure for human beings by dying on the cross as the perfect Substitute. No, we don’t find a commandment to remember HIS birth but we do find the commandment to remember HIS death (1Cor.11:24-26).  How much better we would be if we would heed the will of God that we find in the book of Romans.

     “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and  perfect, will of God.”    Romans 12:1-2

         It is God’s will and command that we do not conform to this world.  Christmas is “after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ”, and therefore we should obey the Scriptures and not conform to the world’s customs.  You see, when one participates in Christmas he is doing just the opposite of what God commands in this verse.  Instead of conforming to this world God wants us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  This happens as we study the scriptures and learn from them how to live our lives in a way that pleases God.  God wants us to be able to prove what His GOOD and ACCEPTABLE and PERFECT will is.  We should do this so that we can apply God’s will to our lives and live in a way that is more pleasing to Him, because we love Him who first loved us.

        Dear friend my purpose in writing these words is not to cause trouble with you.  I know first hand how controversial this subject is with those that have a strong traditional and emotional attachment to the practices of Christmas, especially those who regard Christmas as an untouchable matter, like a sacred cow.  I write knowing that there are those that want to honor God in all their ways and are not aware of the deceptions of Christmas.  I pray that God will use these words to enlighten them to the dangers of Christmas and move them to a closer walk with God.  Christianity is about following Christ (Luke 9:23), and to do that the Lord said one must “deny self, and take up his cross...” not his Christmas tree!

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1. We know.

2. We don’t care.

3 The Catholic Church didn’t begin Christmas to allowed the heathen to continue their idolatrous ways under the guise of celebrating Christ’s birthday with the Church of Rome’s blessings. It is just the opposite. The heathens where going to celebrate there holidays no matter what, so the Church Declared it a Church holiday, so they would have to come to church on those day, to deter them from celebrating the Holiday.  

4. You are still speaking English and using these Characters, and you have yet to address why this compromise is ok and others aren’t. So as far as I’m concerned, you are not following what you rant, and that negates your argument about not following the ways of the heathen.

Quote from Tibby,

“4. You are still speaking English and using these Characters, and you have yet to address why this compromise is ok and others aren’t. So as far as I’m concerned, you are not following what you rant, and that negates your argument about not following the ways of the heathen.”

Your reasoning is seriously flawed. I have heard silly illogical statements like yours above many times. They seem to always come from those who want to muddle the truth so they can justify having fellowship with darkness. The attitude is “My mind is already made up, please don’t confuse me with the facts.”

Your flawed reasoning goes something like this.

Pagans breath air and Christians breath the same air, therefore it is ok to celebrate pagan holidays.

Pagans speak languages and Christians speak languages, therefore it is ok to celebrate pagan holidays.

Sadly, many people in today’s world are so simple minded that they accept this flawed thinking and go about excusing abominable customs and traditions of man thinking all the time that somehow God will be pleased with their wicked ways.

Because Christians and pagans breath air doesn’t mean I can do anything the pagans do. When it comes to worship and truth God is very clear on how one must worship Him. I cannot take the things of Satan and baptizes them in Christian terminology and give new meanings to traditions and customs then offer them to God. This would be abominable and a great offense to a Holy God. Why in the World would one even think for a moment that God would want something that was dedicate to Satan renamed and offered to Him.

Because pagans breath air doesn’t make it wrong for Christians to breath air. Yet, if I breathed air the same way, and for the same purpose, that pagans do in their religion and worship then it would be wrong for me to imitate them. Some pagans use specific breathing techniques for the purpose of attaining an altered state of consciousness or what I would call a demonic trance.  The same is true of the days of the week, just because they are named after pagan gods doesn’t make it wrong to use them to identify each day of the week. Yet, if I would use the religious customs and practices of these pagans to their gods and incorporate them in the worship of the true God like what is done at Christmas then it would be wrong and abominable before God.

Pilgrim

You thing twisting my words with inductive logic is going to do anything? Oh wow, logic that conflicts, BIG shocker. You still have not answered my question.

The air example is an overdone example. It is just a little thing I like to say when people behave as you do. It gets there attention. It is meant to be a weak joke to lighten the mood so people don’t start getting angry, which his often the case in these kinds of debates. It takes a lot of guts of not get a joke, and they say those who do are "simple minded."

You focused way to much on this joke and not to much on the issue of the language. Why is that? I think you CAN’T answer it. Just admit it. There IS no answer by your logic. You see, your reasoning goes something like this:

Christmas was created by Pagans, so we cannot celebrate Christmas

So, by your logic, it is a safe to say that:

English was created by Pagans, so we cannot speak or write English

Tell me how this is flawed? The English language question is one I think is reasonable. Christmas came from Pagans, so did the English Language. The Characters we type with are also a pagan creation. God made air, but Pagans where the first to write ABCDEFG and they where the first to party on Christmas day.

So, please, explain to me how speaking English and celebrating Christmas are any different. Both are creations of evil, sinful cultures.

Sorry to hit and run, but I'm not looking to join another thread.  I just wanted to point out something for consideration.  If it works for you, then great.

Isn't there something in the NT about eating meat sacrificed to idols or something.  It says (if I remember correctly), that it's really ok, because we're not under law.  As long as we are not concentrating in the idol part, but are just eating then we're ok (also as long as we are not being a stumbling block to our brother).

What I get from this, is that motive can play a big role.  We cannot go around all the time looking in our culture at who makes "what" and what was the original 'intent' on something in particular.  I frankly don't have the time, and don't care.  If God convicts me to stop doing something ... I stop.  and Vice-versa.  I celebrate the birth of Christ.  I know full well how it started ... and I don't care.  It doesn't mean that to me.  Yes, I have a tree and we decorate it as a family.  My tree holds no identification of Christ.  I recognize that.  We pass out presents and I really don't identify it with the 3 wise men.  There are several things I do, because it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.  I enjoy the special time with my family.  But, I hold that day very reverently.  I am absolutely aware that Christ was not born on this day.  I don't care.  This is simply the day I have set apart to celebrate His birth.  Yes, I celebrate it.  It was a miracle.  It was my personal Savior taking on the body of man and I am eternally gratefull.  It is simply a day I have set aside to remember what He had to give up to become man and for me to thank Him for doing this to me.  Yeah, I do a lot of other stuff on the side, but I know full well what this day represents.

Was it a pagan holiday?  I don't care.  Are their pagan symbols in this holiday?  I don't care.  It does not mean that to me.  I see Christ.  My eyes are on Him.  I celebrate Him everyday of my life.  This just happens to be one where I throw a physical celebration in a different format.  I'm ok with it.

I have prayed about this, and I do not feel convicted to stop it.  If you feel convicted, then you should stop.  If you feel convicted to tell others, then you should.  But you should fully recognize the not everyone is being convicted to stop celebrating Christmas and this does not mean that we are not Christians.  

Let's not break fellowship over this and recognize that we are at different places in our walk.  

Grace and Peace and Love to you.

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

All seven of our current names for days of the week are each dedicated to a different pagan god. If one checks into why the days are called Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, you will find the pagan roots of the day and the god or goddess that day is dedicated to. However, if a Christian gets up each morning and worships Almighty God instead, it's a moot issue. Some might be convicted to change the name of the day because of the known links to the devil, and I would say that's fine if they are convicted to do so.

Pilgrim, I don't make light of your message about Christmas, but I celebrate Jesus every day. I celebrate Jesus on all seven days of the week, not the pagan gods they were named for. I choose not to give the devil recognition or glory on a single one of the 365 days each year. All 365 days are simply another day the Almighty God has made, and all will be done to HIS GLORY in worship of HIM. There is no day or hour that belongs to the devil. If there was such a day or hour, I would worship Almighty God on that day and hour.

As far as I'm concerned Mon-Sun, Christmas, Easter, and all other days belong to Christ, and I worship Christ on those days. If the devil feels that he owns any of those days, I doubt he would appreciate what many Christians do on those days. I feel convicted to worship Christ on those days and will continue to do so. I don't think the name of the day makes a difference, rather what you do with that day. With Christmas, the GIFTS are blessings from God, and the day is dedicated to HIM.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Now that is TRUTH

Thank you Brother BEP

and AMEN!!!

Brother Love :)

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

First, you are most welcome Brother Love. I feel convicted to say more on this subject, certainly not for argument or debate.

I read about the great debates recognizing Christmas as an official holiday in each state of America. Pilgrim, my Brother, much of what you mentioned was a part of the debate. I may get the dates wrong, but I think that I'm correct. The first state to recognize Christmas as an official holiday was in 1870. The last state to recognize Christmas as an official holiday was Oklahoma, and they approved it in 1892 after 22 years of debate.

So, what did we do with Christmas? We do Birth of Christ Plays, sing Carols and Hymns, pray, have worship services, and all kinds of things the devil can't stand. Much of what Christians do at Christmas has been recently banned. The first things to go were the manger scenes on public property, the Carols and Hymns in public schools, etc., etc. There have been many legal battles fought, I assume, over what the devil doesn't like. It has been announced recently that the ACLU is now fighting to remove the name Christmas and replace it with winter holidays. As a general rule, the ACLU represents the devil in my mind. Just why is it that the ACLU wants the name Christmas removed as the name of a recognized or official holiday? Do you suppose it would be some concern that would be good for Almighty God, or would you consider what they do for the devil?

The ACLU battled the people in my back yard for 20 years over the Christ of the Wichita's and the annual Passion Play on a wildlife refuge owned by the Federal Government. The ACLU lost the battle. The irony is that the Passion Play is done at Easter, a pagan holiday. However, the question is whether or not Almighty God is honored, glorified, and worshiped with the play. If the ACLU thought it needed to go, it was time to consider again if the play was being done to honor Almighty God. We determined it was and decided to fight. They also wanted to remove our Holy City and Christ of the Wichita's. We know the city isn't Holy, but it is used for the play. There is also a very old and beautiful church that had to go. Worship services had actually been held and are being held for decades on Federal property. The ACLU lost and they need to lose some more.

Pilgrim, my Brother, I don't make light of anything you had to say about Christmas. I would simply ask if Almighty God is pleased with what we do or don't do at Christmas or on any other day. As an individual, I would say that the devil hates the way we do Christmas. It's just another day of worship for us.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Some more truth, keep preaching Brother

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN

True that Blackeyed!

And Tibby I have a question myself:  If you think we should stop using the English language, then why are you still using it?

:)

I don't, Pilgrim thinks we should stop using the English language. Christmas, Halloween, and the English language all come from Pagan culture, and he doesn't believe we should use things based in pagan culture. :)

I'm fine with Christmas, Halloween, English, my birthday, "traditional" weddings, potlucks, democracy, Martial Arts, and other things founded in Pagan cultures. ;)