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GOD'S SABBATH REST
God changes not, but His dealings with mankind change according to His own will. That's why He first gave the Old Covenant but also promised the New Covenant, and then established it in Christ. The real problem we have is that even Christians do not understand the power of the New Covenant, and go back and forth trying to mix Law anf Grace.

Regarding God's Sabbath Rest, there is a deep teaching in God's Word which almost no one ever mentions or seems to know about. We know that because God is who He is, He needs no rest or recuperation. The *rest* of God is the Divine satisfaction He derives from knowing that His creation is perfect and His creatures are also perfect. This has happened partially through what Christ has done on the Cross, thus Christ is SEATED at the right hand of the Father. However, it is not altogether complete since He must first subdue all His enemies and then *dissolve* the present atmospheric heaven and earth and create a *new heaven and a new earth*.

Until that is done God's Sabbath remains incomplete. He is now engaged in His redemptive works, and therefore is still active, not at rest. God's creative works and His redemptive works are to be clearly distinguised and understood. Even while God created the first heaven and earth, He knew that sin would enter into the world and that there would be, of necessity, a new heavens and a new earth. He already knew that His sabbath rest would be broken by man's sin, and that He would be *compelled* to create a new heaven and a new earth. So this rest was temporary.

SIN DESTROYED GOD'S SABBATH REST
With regard to His first creation *God saw everything that He had made, and behold it was VERY GOOD [PERFECT]... And on the seventh day God ended His WORK [creative work] which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His WORK WHICH HE HAD MADE* (Gen. 1:31; 2:2).

Almost immediately after this, God began His REDEMPTIVE WORK which goes unnoticed, because it is not stated thus. It would appear that within a very short period from the end of creation, Adam and Eve sinned and were cast of of the garden of Eden. The first redemptive work of God was to provide them with *coats of skins* (Gen. 3:21). This involved the sacrifice of *clean* animals, the shedding of their blood, and the clothing of the sinners, thus establishing the redemptive work of the Lamb of God  which was to come (John 1:29). We know that the Lamb of God was *slain* from the foundation of the world [in God's eyes the cross was an accomplished fact before Adam was created] so God taught Adam and Eve this truth, and they in turn taught it to Cain and Abel. Cain rebelled against salvation by grace through faith in the shed blood of the Lamb, but Abel believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness (Heb.11:4).

Another redemptive work of God [although it does not so appear] was driving the sinners out of Eden and placing the cherubim at the entrance (Gen. 3:22-24). This was an act ot both righteousness and mercy, since Adam and Eve would not remain in their sin forever.

CHRIST'S REDEMPTIVE WORKS
When the Word of God, the Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ, came to this earth as Jesus of Nazareth, He deliberately *violated* the sabbath-keeping of the Jews. This was to establish an important truth. That while God hallowed the seventh-day sabbath rest, man's sin had broken God's rest, therefore He could not and would not rest until the Lamb of God had finished His work.

That is precisely why Christ healed on sabbath days. It was a healing of both body and soul. And He declared these to be the REDEMPTIVE WORKS of the Father and the Son: "And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay Him, because He had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father WORKETH hitherto, and I WORK" (John 5:17). This redemptive work will not be complete until the whole universe is subject to God, and peace and righteousness reign supreme (1 Cor. 15:24-28).

THE BELIEVER'S SABBATH REST
In the meantime, because of the New Covenant, every ordinance of Moses has been abolished, including the seveth-day sabbath. (if you don't think so then study 2 Corinthians 3, Galatians and Hebrews before you respond). The first day of the week is for BOTH worship and rest, the primary emphasis being worship. At the same time EVERY SAINT IS CONTINUOUSLY PARTAKING OF GOD'S SABBATH REST -- THE SATISFACTION WITH WHAT HIS SON HAS ACCOMPLISHED ON THE CROSS.

That's why there is no carnal weekly seventh-day rest any more. The Jews had made a travesty of it, and broke the sabbaths of the land and therefore went into Babylonian captivity. They constantly *polluted* the sabbath of Moses. Study the OT for confirmation.

ENTERING INTO GOD'S REST
So we come to Hebrews chapter 4 and read: "FOR WE WHICH HAVE BELIEVED DO ENTER INTO REST, as He said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they [unbelievers] shall enter into MY REST: although the [creative] works were finished from the foundation of the world... Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of UNBELIEF... There therefore remaineth [abides, continues] A REST TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD. For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His" (Heb. 4:3-10).

In other words, when we stop trying to achieve our salvation with our own works, and simply rest in and on the Lamb of God by faith, we enter into God's rest, which also means we set aside the *works of the Law*, including sabbatarianism.

Oklahoma Howdy to Sower,

I always enjoy your posts. It's ironic that I am many times studying the same subject you write about. I receive a blessing and understanding from your posts.

Thanks Brother.

In Christ,

BEP

Greetings, Brother, and thanks. We may be miles apart but the Holy Spirit leads us in these matters and binds us closer to each other and the Lord. Many blessings on you.

Dear John letter
Hi old buddy. I see your still not taking your valium. Keep standing up for the WORD. Its all we need

Hi, John here:
Hay, (S.C. talk) am I on the right thread blackeyedpeas ;)

Any how, I have a lot of Baptist friends. Some times we agree on doctrine. Let me quote some real conviction pertaining to the thread?

"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' discussion with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question, discussing it in some of its varius aspects, freeing it from its false (Jewish traditional) gloses, never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during the forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated. Nor, so far as we know, did the Spirit, which was given to bring to their remembrance all things whatsoever that He had said unto them, deal with this question. Nor yet did the inspired apostles, in preaching the gospel, founding churches, counceling and instructing those founded, discuss or approach the subject.

Of course I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn  from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the MARK of Paganism, and christianed with the name of the sun-god, then adopted and sanctified by the PAPAL APOSTASY, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism."
---Dr. E.T. Hiscox, report of his sermon at the Baptist Minister's Convention, in New York Examiner, November 16, 1893--- He also is the author of the 'Baptist Manual'.    

Read Isaiah 42:21 for part of Christ's mission, and John 9:39-41 for some more.
----John
*******

Oklahoma Howdy to John the Baptist,

I think we may be thinking on different trains of thought. A Christian can and should have rest and fellowship in Jesus daily, not just one day a week. Under the old covenant, you needed a high priest to serve when you wanted to communicate with God. Under the new covenant, a Christian can pray directly without need of a high priest. Other comparisons might involve blood sacrifice, etc. Go along these thought patterns and you will understand what I am thinking on this thread. The Glorious difference is Jesus and the Gospel of God's Grace.

In Christ.

1 Timothy 1
3   As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4   Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5   Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6   From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7   Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8   But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9   Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10   For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11   According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Acts 15
  But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6   And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7   And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8   And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9   And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10   Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?11   But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

asaph

Hey thar
Should we believe the WORD of God or the words of man?

JUDE 1[4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,
ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.[5] I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

(Remembrance-out of Egypt-destoyed them that believe not)
Above passage says you can deny GOD and JESUS!
Who are these people that turned the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and deny the only Lord God.

EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.[11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them;and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

(Out of Egypt-polluted HIS SABBATHS-HE destroyed them)
Will it be this way when Christ returns.
Notice also the wording in JUDE 1 where it says “put you in remembrance”. In Exodus 20 where the commandment is given, it reads” Remember the sabbath day”.

DEUT.5[15] And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
(remember-out of Egypt-Keep the Sabbath)

HEBREWS 4 [1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest,

 GODS 4th commandment is perfect. Why man felt the need to change it i’ll never understand.

In response to the original post, I'd say that God rested, in agreement with you, not because He needed it! Where I see something else is that God did it as an example for us.  Not to gain any kind of rest for Himself. The Sabbath is a type of eternal rest, rest from sin and the rest that we get from full fellowship with Him (which was destroyed by the first Adam). The second Adam, which was Christ, fulfilled the requirements of blood sacrifice on the cross and we are no longer under a covenant of works, but a covenant of grace, which is why the Sabbath was moved to the first day of the week from the last. We no longer work first and receive rest on the last day because we are no longer under a covenant of works, but grace. We rest first and serve after. Jesus rose and fulfilled all the law and the prophets on the first day. And we continue in our observance of the Sabbath in fulfillment of the fourth commandment and in anticipation of our full rest in redemption.  :)

John here:
Matt. 4:4 says that man is to live by [every Word] that PROCEEDETH out of the Mouth of GOD!
And the post from this bird does not even use [one] word of the Master's Word ???

Give us a brake, & go sell your 'useless' Wordless vitals to the ones of Heb. 5 please!---John
***********************

Since you quoted me, I'm assuming you're referring to me. All will note that you have given what is known as a cosmetic argument. A cosmetic argument sounds good, hence the term "cosmetic," but it doesn't actually disagree or take issue with anything in particular. It's a blanket statement that is really quite empty. The Master's word pervades all I do and think, and I used principles which are, each and every one, out of scripture. Just because I did not give the specific verses did not mean I wasn't using them. I simply assumed you were master enough at knowing your Bible to instantly recognize them when you saw them. If you do need a referenced breakdown, I shall be pleased to provide one:

Principle One: God rested on the seventh day.
Genesis 2:2. By the seventh day God finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work.

Principles Two and Three: God rested *after* His labor (2), and this rest from labor is directly applied to the sabbath rest He would establish for His people (3):
Genesis 2:3. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that He had done.

Principle Four: The sabbath was created not for God's own need, but as an example to us.
Mark 2:27: The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. (Note here the sabbath cannot be made for God, because it is said that sabbath was made for man. Also, we note that God's rest comes after making creation. ) This leads us to...

Principle Five: God does not need a sabbath; his work was finished at creation:
Hebrews 4:3. Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' And yet His work has been finished since the creation of the world.

Principle Six: We must likewise rest.
Hebrews 4:9. There remains, then, a sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.

Principle Seven: The sabbath rest is a type of eternal rest, a rest from sin and from broken fellowship with God.
Revelation 14: 13. Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."
Hebrews 3:7-11. So as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, where your fathers tested and tried me and dor forty years saw what I did. That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, ' Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways. *So I declared on oath, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"* [emphasis mine.]

Principle Eight: Full fellowship was broken by the first Adam:
Genesis 3:23. So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. (For a full reference on the sin itself, read all of Genesis 3.)

Principles Nine and Ten: Jesus is the second Adam (9), and He came to overturn the fleshly nature of the first Adam (10).
I Corinthians 15: 45-48. So it is written,"The first Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man was from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so so also are those who are of heaven.
Also, all of Romans 5.

Principle Eleven: Jesus fulfilled the requirements of a blood sacrifice.
Romans 3: 25-26. God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-He did it to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be just and the Obne who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Principle Twelve: The law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
Matthew 5:17. Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Principle Thirteen: We are no longer under a covenant of works, but of grace. (This is in Christ Jesus, and the ceremonial law is no longer required.)
Exodus 19:5a. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all the nations you will be my treasured possession. (Old testament, old covenant.)
Ephesians 2:8-9. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.

Principle Fourteen: We used to work first and then rest. Already well-established by previously quoted verses.

Principle Fifteen: We now rest first and work after.
I will fill this explanation out here. We have already seen in previous verses that we cannot be saved by works. Our rest comes from Christ. Matthew11:28. Come to me all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest.

Obviously this is not physical rest, but spiritual. Appropriate for the second Adam, who was the spiritual man rather than natural. (Already quoted and established.)

Prooftext that God is the author, the origin of our works: Philippians 1:6. being confident of this, that *He who began* a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. [emphasis mine.]

Another prooftext that works will surely follow true faith in Christ: All of first John especially I John 2:3-4. We know that we have come to know Him if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.
Also James 2: 20, James 2:26, Acts 26:20...

Priciple Sixteen: Jesus rose on the first day of the week. Luke 24:7: The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.

(This is Easter Sunday, for you will remember that Jesus was crucified on a Friday.Luke 23:54. It was Preparation Day, and the sabbath was about to begin. As already proven, the sabbath then was on the seventh day, saturday, so that would make Preparation Day a Friday.)

Now that I've jumped through that enormous hoop for your benefit, what was the basis for your hostile post and name-calling? Here's a text for you: I Corinthians 13:13. If you actually made it to the end of this post, I commend you for that. I hope you appreciate how much time I put into it!

Hi Whitehorse
Jesus did not rise on sunday(according to the scriptures)

MATT.12[39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and
there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:[40] For as Jonas was three days and three
nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus said HE would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth
Does good Friday afternoon till  (easter) morning=3 days and 3 nights? No way.

MARK 16[1] And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had
bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

These women bought sweet spices after the sabbath was past(the high day passover sabbath)JOHN 19[31]

LUKE 23[56] And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

These same women prepared spices and then rested the sabbath day(Gods 4th commandment)
How could these women prepare spices and rest the sabbath if they didnt buy spices till after the sabbath had past?
There had to be 2 sabbaths! The feast of unleavened bread, which starts the day after the passover, has a high sabbath day, which is spoken of in John 19.And Whitehorse there is a preparation day for that sabbath also.

JOHN 19 [14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews,
Behold your King![15] But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him.
 
(These 2 scriptures are just more proof that the first of these sabbaths was the high passover sabbath)

JOHN 19[31] The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross
on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

MATT.27[61] And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.[62] Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

After three days

Well a big DUH to you wreck n sow since you should know that Jesus was not Crucified on Friday.  Also to say he was not raised on Sunday is foolishness as well unless Sunday is no longer the first day of the week.

Mr 16:1
¶ And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mr 16:2
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mr 16:9
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Lu 24:1
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Joh 20:1
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.


It seems that the bible disagrees with you hence, making you the one in err.

We won't even get into the difference between the way they kept days then and now but you might like to know (if you don't already) that the Jews hold Saturday as their Sabbath day.  hint hint

God bless,
Jason

Hi, Wreck N Sow.

There *could* be two sabbaths. Or, there could have been two purchases. One before, one after. This would make a great deal more sense than two sabbaths in the same week, although I'd heard that argument in my theology class.

Of course the holy days would have a high sabbath, but I not in addition to the regular one. The sabbath corresponding to the holy day would *be* the high sabbath, unless there is a prooftext otherwise. As it stands, I'd say there were two purchases.

If that's the case, Jesus did die on friday, because it is written: "When He had received the drink, Jesus said, it is finished. With that he bowed His head and gave up His spirit. Now it was a day of preparation, and the next day was to be a special *Sabbath*. So, if the whole argument for two sabbaths rests on the purchase(s) of spices, it would be far from conclusive for the reason given above.

Moreover, I have a different reading of John 19:14. Mine says, it was the the day of preparation of Passover *Week,* not the preparation of Passover. (Passover was celebrated and referred to in Jesus's day as the 14th-21st of Nisan, an entire week. But the lamb was eaten on the 14th.) So it would be the preparation for the sabbath, during the week of passover. THat would indeed by a high sabbath, for it is the sabbath of passover week. That would make that day the friday.  I haven't found a reference to the preparation of Passover, the day, in reference to the passion. (If I missed something, please point it out to me.)

In addition, Matthew 26:18-30 show the disciples clearly eating the passover the day before the crucifixion. For in27:1, it was the next morning when Jesus appeared before Pilate. So to eat the passover would have been thursday, which would place the crucifixion on friday.

So you'd really have to take more implications outside of text to place a second sabbath in the same week than to discount a sunday resurrection. IMHO

No that's wrong as well and you can't have Jesus dying on a Friday afternoon and raising early Sunday morning and have 3 days and nights pass can you?

There is no passover week so your bible is wrong.  Passover is one day.  What you are reffering to is the feast of unleavened bread which lasts one week.  They happen together but are not the same thing.

There most certianly were two "sabbath" days the high sabbath being passover and then saturday passover.

I guess I will mention it anyway.  The Jewish day is from 6PM to 6AM.  NO try and work it all out.  Jesus was not crucified on Friday.  It's silly catholic misinformation like lent and other things.

God bless,
Jason

MATT.12[39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and
there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:[40] For as Jonas was three days and three
nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Are we to believe Jesus when HE said HE would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. Thats what it comes down to. Believe Jesus or what youve been taught.

WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON - preparation day for the passover high sabbath day(sabbath begins at sundown)
According to scripture Jesus was put in the tomb(heart of the earth) before sundown according to the law.
JOHN 19 [14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews,
Behold your King![15] But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him.
JOHN 19[31] The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross
on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

1 full day - WEDNESDAY SUNDOWN TO THURSDAY SUNDOWN - The high passover sabbath day. On this day it was unlawfull to do any work or to buy anything. So the women had to wait for this sabbath to pass before going out to buy the spices for Jesus.

2 full days - THURSDAY SUNDOWN TO FRIDAY SUNDOWN
MARK 16[1] And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had
bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
LUKE 23[56] And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
These women bought sweet spices after the sabbath was past(the high day passover sabbath)JOHN 19[31] .
These same women prepared spices, that same day and then rested the sabbath day according to the
commandment (Gods 4th commandment)

3 full days - FRIDAY SUNDOWN TO SATURDAY SUNDOWN - Gods 4th commandment - the weekly sabbath

So if you believe the scriptures its easy to see that Jesus rose on a late saturday afternoon. 3 days and 3 nights after HE was put in the heart of the earth. Just as Jesus said HE would. In each case when people went to the tomb after Jesus rose from the dead(on sunday), HIS body was not there. Nowhere will you find anyone seeing Jesus rise on that sunday morning, SAVED4EVER Only that HE had already risen.

The old you doesn't give up very easily.  When God finishes with you, the old you will be no more and the new you - the you who fears, loves, and trusts God - will not have to fight any longer.  But in the meantime, there is some struggle elft.  The old you isn't going to give up until it has no alternative.

So for the meantime, while the old you hangs on and thenew you awaits completion, God has some commandments to hand out.  They are provisional, rules for the meantime.  At the same time, there is something really good about them.  For in these commandments, God gives us a sense of what is most important, what matters from day to day.

In the wilderness God taught Israel about the gift of sabbath.  No manna fell on the seventh day of the week (Ex 16.26).  Enough manna fell on the sixth day to feed the people on both the sixth day and the seventh day (Ex 16.23).  The manna stored for the sabbath did not rot (Ex 16.24).

The partner people learned that humans do not have to work every day to receive and distribute God's manna.  The extra time is a beautiful gift of God which makes it possible for humans and animals and earth to rest.  Sabbath allows humans to experience full time the wonder of friendship - with God and others and all creation.

The grandest part of the covenant word, the Torah, was the teaching about Sabbath, God's gift of time - time for resting, playing, singing, frolicking, feasting, praying, storytelling, and time for savoring friendships with God and others and nature (remember friendship is what life is all about, not piling up stuff).  According to the Torah, the gift of Sabbath will be honored in three forms:

1.  The Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week.

2.  The Sabbath year, the seventh year.

3.  The Jubilee year, the fiftieth year, the grand Sabbath year.

On Sabbath days the partner people will rest.  What a gift of grace!  God lets the people know the world will not fall apart if they do not work all the time (Ex 20.8-11, 23.12).  It doesn't even fall apart when God takes a day off (Gen 2.1-3).

On Sabbath years many joyful things will happen.  The people and the land will rest (Ex 23.11).  Work animals will enjoy rest and refreshment (Ex 23.12).  There will be abundant food for all (Ex 23.1, Lev 25.6-7).  All debts will be canceled - one way to keep Pharaoh's Egypt from happening (Deut 15.1-11).  All slaves will go free with help to start again (Deut 15.12-15).

On jubilee years all land lost because of debt or misfortune will go back to the original inheritor - God's way of assuring that this society will never become like Pharaoh's Egypt with rich and poor, land hoarders and landless slave workers.  By keeping the jubilee, this people will live as God's...

CONTRAST SOCIETY.  (Lev 25.8-55).

Shalom:  PastorTom

Well, I agree there's a problem. But you'd have to ignore all those other verses to arrive at that conclusion, and they're scripture, too. They're all valid. Another problem. How could the third night succeed the third day if Jesus said to the thief, "*Today* you will be with Me in paradise"? [emphasis mine].

John here:
We have a bigger problem with that verse, if we read it that way? for Christ did not go to paradise that day either!
****

John, If He said He did, He did. I don't know how you can say otherwise without denying the authority of scripture.

The original Greek has no punctuation marks, so…

Luke 23:43  And Jesus said to him Truly I say to you today you will be with Me in Paradise.
LITV translation.

Place the comma after the word “Today” and you have a different meaning. Your choice?

Hey

John 20  [15] Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
[16] Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The Baptist is correct, the comma seems to be in wrong place.
Above scripture "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father".

*******
Hi John here:
I do like your putting the integretity of the Master Words FIRST! :)

I was thinking of John's 'inspiration' ALSO, as seen in chapter 20? Verse one tells us what day it is. Also that it WAS DARK.
(our Sat. night)

Verse 17 is the verse to see, it was Christ Himself stating that HE HAD NOT YET ASCENDED TO HIS FATHER. Remember that He was dead & in the grave some time even before this passage of resurection? And His Word's to the 'past' thief could not be as some today teach.

Also notice verse 18-19 for the same  day at EVENING? And what were the disciples assembled for??

---John  

Actually, I think the comma argument is a red herring. Christ was responding to the plea by the thief to remember him when He came into His kingdom.Christ replies, "Verily I say unto thee, today thou shalt be with me in paradise."

The word "today" is Strong's number 5494. It is often translated "this day." It implies a sense of immediacy.

Therefore, I believe there are only two ways to look at these two verses, Luke 23:42-43. 1 - Christ was saying that very day, the day they both died, the thief would be with Christ in Paradise, or 2 - when Christ came into His kingdom the thief would be with Christ in Paradise that very day.

As I believe that Christ spent the next 3 days and nights in the heart of the earth (the tomb) I therefor believe this second reading to be the correct one.

1. John, the entire Bible is the Mater's words. The Bible is ispired by God, and it is his infalliable word. You have to take all of it or none of it; if any of it were wrong, it would destroy the credibility of the entire scripture.

2 Timothy 2:16: All scripture is God-breathed, and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

John 8: 28: So Jesus said, "When you have have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know I am the One I claim to be and that I do nothing on My own but speak just what the Father taught Me."

So all of it is from the Master, our Father in Heaven. I think it's correct that the Jewish reckoning of time would mean that Jesus was not referring to a literal 24-hour day. But there are many scriptures, even those that show us point blank that Jesus rose on the first day of the week.

Regarding Jesus's ascention: He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not ascended *in the body.* But He did in fact die, so His spirit had to be somewhere. So He would be with the Father in his spirit. Although, it's also possible that when Jesus told the thief he would be with Him in paradise, He used the word Today meaning that he was only speaking the words that day. I tend to favor the first view, however, simply because there would have been no question as to when Jesus was speaking the words, only to the time of being with the Father. So I tend to think Today referred to the time of the reunion with the Lord. Also: Luke 23:46b  "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." So that would show that Jesus's soul did return to the Lord.

And what about all the verses Save_4ever put up about the resurrection on the first day? Plus I'd need better proof of the double sabbath, since God rested from His work only one day. There's the Passover...it all adds up.

But that's whole point of my post: if it's scripture and we profess to agree with all of it, then I don't understand what there is to disagree upon.

Hi WhiteHorse
The problem lies in believing the WORD says what it says

MATT.19   [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Many will say, yes it says "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments".And they say they believe this. But if they dont happen to like 1 of the commandments they will say that the commandments are not the 10 commandments.And they will give their various reasons for this.

Hi, Wreck N Sow.

Yes, I know what you mean. I've seen plenty of that myself. It's that crummy postmodernism, as if the sin nature didn't already ruin so many without more encouragement from an organized philosophy.

It's the heart of liberalism; it's deriving interpretation from feelings more than the scripture. The foundation is off, so the whole house eventually crumbles. Sad.

Interesting-in the course of my work today, I ran across a few passages that address this exactly. 2 Timothy 3:7-8, more particularly 2 Timothy 4:3-4, and pretty much all of I John.

Here's 2 Timothy 4:3-4: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Exactly what you addressed. I think we're living in the last days; what do you think?

I do White Horse
Jesus mentioned a lot of different things that would happen(been 3 pretty good sized eartquakes the last 2 weeks)and He said you will know when its close, even at the door. When they say peace and saftey(the new peace plan?) Cant say for sure but....

Amen, Wreck N Sow. Amen!  :)

And Matt. 24:14 is just about to happen the second time,
if not already in place!  :)---John
*************************

Yes!!! Absolutely! It's an exciting time to be working the master's fields, wouldn't you say?

*******
First: "I will search Jerusalem with candles" (professed spiritual Israel. see Rom. 2:28-29)

Second: "The great day of the Lord is near, (agreed! :))
it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the VOICE OF THE DAY OF THE LORD: (see Gen. Gen. 6:3) the mighty man SHALL CRY BITTERLY. (Eze. 9:6--all of Eze. 9! :'( tough loving duty!)

[That day] IS A DAY OF WRATH, A DAY OF TROUBLE AND DISTRESS, A DAY OF WASTNESS AND GLOOMINESS, a day  of clouds and THICK DARKNESS, (spiritual as well!) A day of the trumpet and ALARM [AGAINST THE FENCED CITIES AND AGAINST THE HIGH TOWERS]. (see Isa. 5!)

And I will bring distress upon men, THEY SHALL WALK [LIKE BLIND MEN], BECAUSE THEY HAVE SINNED AGAINST THE LORD: AND THEIR BLOOD SHALL BE POURED OUT AS DUST, AND THEIR FLESH AS DUNG."  :'( :'( ---(Today's pulpit stuff, huh?)

But YES, in answer to your question! But all in all, it is kind of a mixed bag, would you not think?? See Matt. 10:25.

---John

For those who don't love God, true, it will be no picnic. But then, this is God's choice. I trust Him enough to understand there's a reason He chose this. We get the benefit of seeing prophecies fulfilled, and the movement of God's hand in the last days. I love Him and want to do His work. I'm grateful to live in a time when we get to see Israel re-established as a nation.

Right now there's an unbeliever in the prayer request line trying to convince Broken there is no God, right after she said she was struggling to believe she can be saved.

i find your opinion very interesting. i cannot say that i agree or disagree with u until i study the verses that u pointed out. i do think that u might be on 2 something.

much love from your brother in Christ,
                                                    Bryan aka: Bozz
 

John here:
God DECREED Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15. Read it. (forget what his weak minded creation says)

God worked 6 days & rested the 7th. Peter says that 1 day is a 1000 yrs with the Lord. Folks today call the 1000 yrs. the rapture & tribulation time. But there will be no one on earth except who were here before God created the earth. That was satan & his 'helpers'.

Just like before creation. All the lost will be dead & awaiting the SECOND ressurection to die the SECOND DEATH. The Saints are in heaven during this 1000 yr. period of time taking part in the judgement. Paul asks.. 'Know ye not that the saints shall judge angels..' (+! books)

The EARTH will have her Sabbath. This is not time setting! For we do not know how old Jesus was. Or when -0- B.C. or A.D. actually was. Some say Christ was 4-5 yrs. old at o date.

Yet, that does not change the facts. When the time arrives, earths history will be also. Noah was given 120 yrs. (time)

I personally liken this to 1844. God brought forth the Virgin denomination from Protestantisn. This denomination was given 120 yrs. time. Then went into the SLEEP (wilderness) 40 yrs.
So you add the three together and see what they bring up?
Perhaps the fall of 20004? Then  Noahs flood?? (real probation closed trouble)

Anyway: From this denomination we see only a 'remnant' who regroup! Rev. 12:17
As Noah 'time' did, as Israel of old did, as Rev. 3:9 do!  ??? Whatever? Just my humble thinking. (yet, NO day or hour or year setting. for God has not told us the date of His creation!) But ALMOST, HUH?

If any would like a couple pgs. with Bible verses on this first part, I would send them to your email if you so desire. They are called part 1 & part 2 on the movie left behind.  

My e-mail is pastornb@cherco.net

---John

Hi, Bozz! Were you talking to John or me?

Hi, John! I'm thinking the reference to 2 Peter was in context of God keeping His promises, though we must wait for it. He was addressing those who didn't believe the promises of God because it didn't happen during their lifetime. I don't understand how you're applying it.

******
John here:
it is hard to know just what one is saying? 2 Peter, (what?)
1 day=1000 yrs? Or 1 Peter 4:17 Judgements starts with the [house of God first]? There are two time formula's in the Word. (at least) One is a day for year  Num. 14:34 & a day for one thousand years (given earlier) & a day year in Lev. 25

Help me out & I will try again! :)
******

John, blessings. About the day being as a thousand years. The context of the scripture (2 Peter 3:8) seems to be Peter talking about God's faithfulness in keeping His promises. I'm not sure it was meant as a numerical code; I understand a lot of people have used it that way, but I'm thinking the context doesn't seem to imply something more. Is that the scripture you were referring to?

Yes, I see what you mean; I guess by *context* I'm wondering if the Bible actually meant for those verses to be tied together for a numeric formula. While one verse can't be lifted out of context, this is true, it seems like the rest of the text surrounding it would shed light on the correct meaning. Because the books are occasional, they were all written with an situation being addressed in that day, and that's how we get the meaning of the text. So I guess I'm wondering about the scriptural use of numbers that way; it's the concept I'm concerned about.

Well,
in Matt. 4:4 we see Christ jumping all over the place :)! (Thank you Jesus) The devil too! He quoted a Promise all most Word to Word, huh?

I have NO problem with that? Some even look at Isa. 28 as talking to the physical drunkards, ... overcome with wine! (+).

So if you carry the chapter to verse 7-10 one see's truth regardless if it be drunks or real 'spiritual' implications. Such as spiritual whordoms & the wine of error & Babylon's confussion. I suggest that drunkards are confussed? And whores & harlots are trying to serve two master's?

Verse 7 tell of these being erred through wine, and strong drink, are [out of the way]; ... they [err in vision, and stumbly IN JUDGEMENT]. (ALL ASLEEP OF Matt. 25 or Rev. 3:16-17?)

(Now notice)
"For ALL TABLES ARE FULL OF VOMIT AND FILTHINESS, SO THAT THERE IS NO PLACE CLEAN. (take a break here & read Davids wordings of Psalms 69:20-28. We are to be fed at the table right? Church? And Peter's thoughts on the vomit ones?)

These ARE on thread here in Isaiah 28! (from 1-10 & on)  

But even through it brings in CHRIST, 'a precious CORNER STONE, a [SURE FOUNDATION]' .. in verse 16, lets see how we are to APPLY His WORD?

ALL tables are FULL of Vomit! Verse 9-10 tell about how to UNDERSTAND DOCTRINE. First was Matt. 4:4 & then 2 Tim. 3:16 & now we see Isaiah 28:9-10 for starters.

First of these verses come the Milk of Heb. 5 to forulate [any]Doctrine. Now, FORGET CHAPTERS! Notice:

"Whom shall He teach knowledge? and whom shall He [make to understand doctrine?] Then that ARE WEANED FROM THE MILK, (of the Word) and drawn from the breasts. (Meat of the Word is needed for DOCTRINE!)

[FOR PRECEPT *MUST BE UPON PRECEPT; LINE UPON LINE; *HERE A LITTLE AND THERE A LITTLE.]"

In other words. It is like putting a puzzel together. The pieces are the words meaning the same thing. (satan has differant names for a illustration in Rev. 12)

This IS the way the WORD OF GOD TOLD ME ( :)) to learn the Truth of [His Doctrine!]

I have given up on the 'foolishness' of mans knowledge years ago. You can find even the Virgin wise ones in ibide. 14-15.

Just one more thought. I BELIEVE in the Word's of the Master in Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 also! I  :'( for the ones who begin to say, well Lord..maybe sometimes? er, aw, yes, it is poetry Lord! (or whatever?)
But in all reality, the Lord has said what the problem is, right here in Isa. 28:1 "the Crown of Pride" & "Drunkards"

---John

Hi John the Baptist
You wrote
Creation week for one. Six day & then the Sabbath rest. Six thousand years & then the 'earth' will have an [EMPTY] Sabbath 1000 yr. rest. (based on 1000 yrs. a day)

Are you saying Gods sabbath rest for His people will not be on earth?

Sower, sorry i did not follow the continuation of this thread as I could see some people had ruined it. You did much homework by the divine hand of God and were blessed for it. Your original post was of much scriptural discernment and help for me and others. I thank you, and keep on for the Lord. I especially enjoyed your explanation of our rest of the first day of the week. We no longer fight/work at our salvation, and so remember our Lamb of God who died for us. In doing so we partake in that same rest of God. We know now the end from the beginning, it simply has yet to come. So we gather together where God has brought us, and remember the work that has and will set us free to enjoy the true Sabbath in a day to come.

 And yes (to whoever said otherwise) Jesus did diliberately heal and do miracles on the Sabbath day. For he was not to break the law, but that the law through him could be made flesh. The Sabbath spoke of Gods work being done. However as you have said sower, sin marred Gods perfect work in that we his creatures sinned. Not that he sinned, no never. And in no way did Jesus sin, he could not, he was perfectly God. Sin being against the will of God. He simply edified the truth that Gods work with men was not through, but that need remained. With need came the work of the Lord, which would not be stopped for a day that had previously been set aside for rest... but had now become of no effect (the Jews missed out on what the Law showed them.) So the Lord Jesus showed everyone what sin had done, and what need was within both jew and gentile.

 Please respond again if you have better clarified words Sower. Good to hear from you, it has been a while.. as I recall your name from my last time being around here.

God bless.

Hey John the baptist
I think someone is claiming we ruined this thread. We should try not to send so much scripture that contradict his beliefs.

*********
John here:
I believe in the seven day weekly cycle here on earth. The 7th day is the birthday of creation. (Psalms 135:13) The day itself is the Lords day that He blessed and set aside for HOLY USE. Adam & Eve most likely heard their first warning message that very first Sabbath day?  ??? Stay away from that tree in the midst of the garden! (But why was it there, and why did God need to test them? ;))

About the lesson of 6000 years? The Lord states that the Land was to have hers sabbath too! (the 7000 year)  I believe that it was an lesson for us, as well as a need that perhaps we do not understand completely. But the 1000 years millennium surely is taught. Had you ever read where a newly married Israelie boy had a whole year off to learn of his bride after marriage? (and a counterpart?)
Perhaps this will be from the 49-50th year of which I call the Jubiliee of Jubilee's. The quality time that the saved ones of earth will spend learning of the Master? (after the judgement)

Another thought is that we will be working during this 7000th year, see 1 Cor. 6:2-3. And the Heavenly city does not decend until the 1000 years are finished. It is then that it states that ALL TEARS ARE WIPED AWAY! You do recall the 'Recording'  Books of both Daniel, Rev., & Eccl. 12?  

By the way, I have a two pg. work on the movie left behind, if you would want to read the Bible verses, send me your e-mail & I will send them along. Mine is:

pastornb@cherco.net

---John

Hi John
Ill write to yer e-mail. I have focused most all my time into studying how to get to the Kingdom and maybe not as much as i should as when and where it might be. I still think itll be here on earth as of now, but i look into the scriptures and see what they say.Have a good one John.

hi

LUKE 4 [14] And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

JESUS kept the sabbath

ACTS 17 [2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Paul kept the sabbath

ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

GENTILES taught on the sabbath

Doesnt scripture tell us to follow their example?

*******
Hi, John here:
You say in bottom line: "Doesn't Jesus tell us to follow His & their example?"

Surely we must understand that Christ is stating Truth in Matt. 7's 'Broadway' 'c'hristian passage. Broadway might even have another look, as in drama too, huh? not only the mass of professed flesh that profess & are IN the BROADWAY, and just plainly will not follow Christ's example, but also the ones in colorful movies with drama & other lying wonders!?

Notice these Words in 1 John 4:6.. "We are of God: he that [knoweth God], heareth us; (most do not even understand what you are talking about! we will use that in the next verse :'() he that [is not of God, heareth not us, Hereby know we the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error]."

Christ's example??? He came to do the Fathers will, He states!
See Isaiah 42:21 for what it took to do this? (given latter on in full view)

Another verse of the 'broadway' one?
In 2 Peter 3:15-17 we see Peter telling us what to expect from the vast majority of the professed ones. Talking of Paul, he states a truth and gives the reason for the problem.

Also remember the many post's that are found here that are in TRUE Babylon confusion? while most think that they understand Paul perfectly! They cannot even 'unite' on much of anything! ???

Be sure to notice the added INSPIRATION of.. "As do they ALSO WITH THE OTHER SCRIPTURE"!

The verse says this: "As also in all of his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which [THEY  THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURE], unto their own DESTRUCTION."

There is just NO way for one to want to follow Christ's example until the 'motive' of REAL LOVE is re/created into ones heart! Christ said: "YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN" Jn. 3:3 There has got to be that starting point of true Agape LOVE FOR HIM FIRST!

And then we see that first heart transplant in ACTION! (works of Love for Him) For then, and ONLY then comes..."Forasmuch as [YE ARE MANIFESTLY DECLARED TO BE THE EPISTLE (LETTER) OF CHRIST MINISTERED BY US, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT *WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, *BUT IN THE FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART." 2 Cor. 3:3

Born again :)! Now we want to follow our Master's example, yet, even then, that is JUST THE *REQUIRED STARTING POINT! (a first love!) Who wants to be called a Jew?? Rom. 2:28-29 kind! and be an odd ball & keep this old Jewish law, huh :). Be a Jew like Jesus?? That is NOT FOR THE BROADWAY ONES!

And as for these 'broadway' ones that profess that they are the real 'c'hristian ones? these ones who 'vacate' spiritual decernment? 1 John 2:4 tells us all about these  :'(...
"He that [sayeth], I know Him, (love Him) and keepeth [not His commandments, IS A LIAR, and the TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM]."

That my friend is 'INSPIRATION". From the GOD that CANNOT LIE!

Then He states that this LAW.. "WHICH YE HAD FROM THE BEGINNING"! v. 7 & v. 6 states as you rightfully posted...
"He that [SAYETH HE ABIDETH IN HIM, HIMSELF ALSO OUGHT TO WALK, EVEN AS HE WALKED]."

Now: verse 8-11 "Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true [IN HIM AND IN YOU: *BECAUSE THE DARKNESS IS NOW PAST, AND THE *TRUE LIGHT NOW SHINETH.]" Then he talkes of hating your brother.  If so, you ARE STILL IN DARKNESS.

OK: What does the this all mean? THE EXAMPLE OF CHRIST?? Hate, Murder, Adultary?? Light or darkness???

Jesus said if you hate a brother, or Lust after a woman, you have already murdered or commited adultary in your heart! (read James 1:15 for the finish) Not a new commandment, this is one that we had at the beginning! Then a new commandment? and the 'unlearned & unstabe? they wrest' at this!

OK, GOD'S EXAMPLE! Isa. 42:18-21 Inspiration says:
"Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that [YE MAY SEE].

Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as My messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?

Seing many things, but [thou observest not; opening the ears, BUT HE HEARETH NOT].

The Lord is well pleased for His Rightousness' sake; [HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, AND MAKE IT HONORABLE."

This is thw Work that John was talking about! From darkness unto LIGHT! This is the VERY WORK THAT JESUS CAME TO DO! Matt. 5:21! Verse 27-28! verse 23-24! verse 16-17! verse 31-32! And much much more!

But who is still so blind that they 'will not' see Rev. 12:17's simple understood Truth? -the ones in the broadway!-    
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, [WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF *GOD AND HAVE THE *TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST]." (EPISTLE-again 2 Cor. 3:3!)

By the way, where did the active 'spiritual Israel ' players in this war come from?? See Matt. 10:23!
 
---John

     

John, thanks for expounding

Hi,
we live in S.C. & are thinking of sarting up a church here. Just wondering how close we are both ways :), Miles, as in traveling distance, & doctrine?

I see no material for an address or personal information around anywhere on you? I know that God did not send out alias's, yet, few people respond to certain callings if published.

Your 'posts' seem to be about the most honest that I have read anything about from this forum so far? Seems like there might be a couple others 'posters' that seem sincere here, so far any way? See Hosea 4:6

Was wondering about your occupation, and relocation status?
Married ect.? Hay, 'i' am not snooping! Just wondering if God has us on the same page? Rom. 8:14

We have purchased 3 tracts of 2, 1 ac. & the third .88 ac. in the country. All are fully landscaped with drive, parking & two are with the septic system in. What has the Master's REST got to do with this?? We will see? By the way, they are 5 min. from I-85 & just inside S.C. line from N.C.

---John

Hi John
Live in upstate NY. In the mountains.I have 2 kids still in school right now.10 and 11 grade. As much as i like this area there are no churches here that follow the bible(if ya get my drift).And i have already given thought to moving when kids graduate. Looking 1st for a church, then lookin at surrounding area. Cant wait to congregate.I am headin down to Mrtyle beach at summers end for a week. I sent an e-mail to ya John. Didnt you get it. Maybe we should talk there. Ya know there will come a time when people will be coming after people like us.

********
Hi, John here:
Did I send you the two parts on the movie? (Left Behind) I can't find any record of not doing so, if you sent me a request? I usally do it right then so I don't goof! Huh?

My email is above this post from you to me. Either way, I don't have your email to my knowledge. Here is my adress again:

pastornb@cherco.net

By the way, people don't bother me much. I have been called about everything the Master tells us of in Matt. 10:25 from His saints. Also lived quite a life years ago. My dad was from a rich family & mom was one of 13 'poor' kids! Dad was educated & mom's educ... was the Masters Word. (both were real Christians, they have now passed)

Anyhow I was 'reared' right, but that did no good for a long long time. I had been shot at, locked up, one time I even had a knife held at my throat. Went through several serious wrecks where I was truely worthy of death! (eternal at that)
And yes, I know that it was only the request to Christ & His answer to the prayers of my parents that kept me around! Even now we pay the price for such past foolishness!

Anyhow, perhaps these some/what hard knocks that I brought upon myself have given me some firmness of character maturity in the Provisions from Christ? It seems that all of my life 'fakes' (liars) have always bothered me,
(at least 'i' am now in good company! see Rev. 3:16 for the Master's Word) and the forum here? it sure has these ones that come across as such?? even in pictures! (and some are even accused of stealing others material, Wow! some Christians if true, huh?)

---John

Morning all,

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day
Ive heard many point to this scripture in Revelations and say that the "Lords day" is speaking of sunday. But as you can plainly see as you read REV.1 and ZEPH.1 both scriptures are speakin of the same day. The Day of the Lord.

REV.1 [7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.[10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

he cometh with clouds - of a trumpet - the Lord's day - a great voice - the earth shall wail

ZEPH.1 [14] The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,[16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers

a day of clouds - of the trumpet - The great day of the LORD - even the voice - man shall cry there bitterly

Come on you sundayers. I feel like im talkin to myself. There must be some scriptures that point to the keeping of the day of the sun,other than those which speak about baal. Arent we all after the same thing here? If there are no scriptures that point to keeping sunday, do you believe that you can worship God in vain, teaching for commandments the doctrines of man?

Good morn
Is it written in the new testament that we are to keep Gods sabbath day? Yes! If ya simply believe what Hebrews 4 says and not what many say it says

HEBREWS 4

[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

[4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

[8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Verses1-3 Those that believe do enter into rest! Dont come short of it! Have faith in the WORD!

Verse 4-5 He spoke of the 7th day of rest. Just as GOD did at the time of creation. The 7th day! Not any day ya happen to choose.

Verse 6-7 There remains some, even after so long a time, that have not entered this rest because of unbelief

Verse 8 If Jesus became their rest, would HE not have spoken of another day. I realize some bibles have changed the name of Jesus to Joshua in order to hide the truth.

Verse 9 The sabbath rest remains therefore TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD!This verse has got to bother those that wish to point to Hebrews 4 as the 1000 yr rest. Thats not here yet folks, so how could that be the rest that remains???

Verse 10-11 Enter into this rest (just as GOD did) .Look at verse 4! The 7th day! THE SABBATH!

Ive seen pages and pages written about above scriptures trying to explain that it doesnt really mean what it says.
Just believe what it says and enter into the rest GOD created for us. The rest that sanctifys us and sets believers apart from those with the spirit of unbelief.

For more proof of this go back to Hebrews 3. Its Gods weekly sabbath that is being spoken of here.

HEBREWS 3 [15] While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.[16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.[17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell inthe wilderness?[18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?[19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

I suppose the thing to do now is to go to the old testament and find out why those  carcases fell inthe wilderness.
What rest will these people not enter into because of unbelief?

EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.[11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even
live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

In both above scriptures

Out of Egypt and into the wilderness
Did not believe in HIS sabbath rest
They were consumed in the wilderness because of unbelief!

Moses said of the double portion, "Yahveh has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days" (Exodus 16:29, NIV). The children of Israel, having a double portion rested on the Sabbath. And we are encouraged that "there remains.... a Sabbath rest for the people of God" (Hebrews 4:9)

This promise is fulfilled in that, those who receive the Messiah have "the bread of life" in this life (the sixth day), and through Him, they have life in the world to come. Thus they rest in Messiah's Sabbath, and are heirs of the double portion.

Hey
Never heard that one before,Raphu.

Maybe you can help me understand Jer. 23

JER.23 [37] Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the LORD answered thee? and, What hath the LORD spoken?[38] But since ye say, The burden of the LORD; therefore thus saith the LORD; Because ye say this word, The burden of the LORD, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the LORD;[39] Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:[40] And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

(1)burden of the Lord - (2)everlasting reproach - (3)perpetual shame - (4)which shall not be forgotten

What is Jer.23 speaking of Raphu?

JER.17 [17] Be not a terror unto me: thou art my hope in the day of evil.[18] Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.[19] Thus said the LORD unto me; Go and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in, and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem;[20] And say unto them, Hear ye the word of the LORD, ye kings of Judah, and all Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that enter in by these gates:[21] Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;[22] Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.
(1)Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day

LEV.24 [8] Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
(2)Every sabbath he shall set it in order - by an everlasting covenant

EXODUS 31[15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
(3)observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant

JEREMIAH 50[4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.[6] My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
(4)a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten- they have forgotten their restingplace

If you read JER.17 through Jer.23 you will see that these chapters are not speaking of ancient Israel. These chapters are speaking of The Day of the Lord, when Jesus returns to this earth.Even Yogi Berra would say its over on that day.

Raphu
you wrote
This promise is fulfilled

Exod.16  [25] And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
[26] Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
[27] And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
[28] And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
[29] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
[30] So the people rested on the seventh day.
[31] And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

Cant seem to find anything about any promises?
Can ya help me out here?

John here: Also Raphe,
in Matt 24 Christ tell's His one's, to PRAY that their flight be neither in the winter [OR] on the Sabbath day! Wow!! around 70 years into the future? (Check any commentary for that 70AD flight) They call it the destruction of Jerusalem.

A couple problems arise with the Master's Words here pertaining to your theology! Who shall we believe Raphe?? Surely anyone can 'see' that Christ understood that HIS SAINTS were to still be keeping the 7th day Sabbath long after He went back into heaven itself!

Then another failure of your theology Raphe comes to view? All of the way up to 70AD we see that the Holy Ghost which [Christ stated] was given to INSTRUCT & BRING UNTO OUR REMEMBRANCE, [NEVER] did so with the apostles or Christ's prophecy?!!

Personally, I for one would retract my 'posting'  & head on a retreat, then join the 'narrow path' ones of Matt. 7.

And by the way, these Sabbath keeping ones are seen again in Rev. 12:17 'KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD *AND THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS' just before they enter their land of Caanan!! :) :) [ALL OF THEM! Jms. 2:8-12]

Hi Ghost Writer
you wrote
The sabbath is arcaic(ghost writer cant spell).If we kindle a fire on the sabbath are we doomed?

BOO. Parables GW. The tounge is the fire.

EXOD.35  [2] Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.[3] Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

PROVERBS 26  [20] Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.[21] As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.[22] The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

JAMES 3  [4] Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.[5] Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth![6] And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.[7] For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:[8] But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

JER.17 [26] And they shall come from the cities of Judah, and from the places about Jerusalem, and from the
land of Benjamin, and from the plain, and from the mountains, and from the south, bringing burnt offerings, and sacrifices, and meat offerings, and incense, and bringing sacrifices of praise, unto the house of the LORD.[27] But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.


EZEK.20
[10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.

[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

[23] I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;[24] Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.[25] Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

[35] And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.[36] Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.[37] And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

[47] And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will  kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein.[48] And all flesh shall see that I the LORD have kindled it: it shall not be quenched.[49] Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

Yes HE doth.          

I guess i just feel like singin today

ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW THE SONG OF MOSES

DEUT.31
[21] And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.[22] Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.[23] And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.[24] And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,[25] That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,[26] Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.[27] For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?
[28] Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.[29] For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.[30] And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness- and evil will befall you in the latter days- Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

REVELATION 15
[2] And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps
of God.[3] And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.[4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God.
I believe everyone already knows this but i’ll say it anyways. It was the 10 commandments that were put inside the ark.
When the commandments are brought out as a witness against the people, im sure the 4th commandment will read as it did when it was put in the ark.

You've gotta have heart

Do you think we have a wishy washy God who changes HIS mind about keeping the sabbath HE created and that HE said HE was Lord over to the day of the sun for a few years than back to the original in the 1000 yr period of rest? I think not!

For I am the LORD, I change not;

AMOS 3 [7] Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Can anyone show me scripture where God changed the sabbath day or revealed anywhere that it would be alright for man to change HIS day of rest.

HOSEA 2 [8] For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.[9] Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof, and my wine in the season thereof, and will recover my wool and my flax given to cover her nakedness.[10] And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of mine hand.[11] I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

I found this scripture. But this was done as a punishment because the Lord was angry with these people.
Baal is worshipped on sundays.

PROVERBS 24  [19] Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked;[20] For
there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.[21] My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:[22] For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both?

meddle not with them that are given to change

DANIEL 7[25] And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.[26] But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.[27] And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: The sabbath is the only law (the 10 commandments) that deals with time! And yes,they say the sabbath has change to Sunday!

MALACHI 3 [2] But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:[3] And he shall sit as a refiner and purifer of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.[4] Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.[5] And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.[6] For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

But who may abide the day of his coming? For I am the LORD, I change not!!

HEBREWS 13  [8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Well thats cleared up

Our rest is no longer in a day, but in Jesus Christ. We rest from our labors in Him. His work accomplished our rest, which is what sabbath means. Our labor is to have faith in that which God has provided with the better covenant:

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Even the torah that cannot be observed or should no longer be observed (like blood sacrifice) is still a teaching. It is a shadow of Christ. It is the spirit of the torah or instruction that is important. You could obey the "letter" of a law and still not obey the "spirit" of the law. That is why Christ summed up the whole law with love God and love your neighbor. Now that we have the Spirit inside to direct, He will lead us in the correct spirit of the law.  That is why it always seemed like Christ was breaking the torah. He was just teaching them what it really meant to follow the torah in spirit. The Pharisees just kept adding more "rules" to follow, not understanding that they hindered the spirit of the law rather than aiding it. You cannot difine the spirit of something with rigid rules, for there will always be exceptions or a new set of circumstances that are not covered. If you try to live by the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you will be continually adding new rules to cover every situation, with no flexibility.....but if you live by the tree of life (Christ within you) ...you will know what is right no matter what the circumstances, for you will be living by the spirit of the torah, by the example of teachings that show you about the spirit and heart of God. For example Shabbat.....the torah says to rest and honor God on Shabbat. Christ showed that there were times when honoring God by saving a lost sheep or feeding those who were hungry was infact following the spirit of Shabbot.

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Matthew 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be ANY other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Mt 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang ALL the law and the prophets.

Rest in a day was meant to be of the temporal. The eternal salvation was achieved only through Jesus Christ, and our rest is in the eternal - not the temporal. Christ is eternal - hallelujah! The day was a shadow and only temporary. Our new life is in Christ and eternal.

Matthew 15:1 Some Pharisees and teachers of religious law now arrived from Jerusalem to interview Jesus. 2 "Why do your disciples disobey our age-old traditions?" they demanded. "They ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat." 3 Jesus replied, "And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4 For instance, God says, `Honor your father and mother,' and `Anyone who speaks evil of father or mother must be put to death.' 5 But you say, `You don't need to honor your parents by caring for their needs if you give the money to God instead.' 6 And so, by your own tradition, you nullify the direct commandment of God. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said, 8 `These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away.
9 Their worship is a farce, for they replace God's commands with their own man-made teachings.'"

Resting in Christ 24/7
Thank You Jesus

****
John here:
's'atanic hog/wash!
"He that sayeth, [I KNOW HIM], and [KEEPETH NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS] is a [LIAR], and the [TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.]"  1 Jn. 2:4

"And the 'd'evil (?) was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the REMNANT OF HER SEED, [WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD], AND [HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST]." Rev. 12:17

"Let us hear the CONCLUSION OF THE WHOLE MATTER: (wow! that is kind of complicated, huh?) Fear God, and keep HIS COMMANDMENTS: for [THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN] :)

Again, very conplicated stuff for the lost ones to understand, huh! ???

For GOD SHALL BRING EVERY [WORK] INTO JUDGEMENT, WITH EVERY SECRET THING, WEATHER IT BE GOOD OR WHEATHER IT BE EVIL." Eccl. 12:13-14

The JUDGEMENT is when? Long after the departure of Christ!

Who are these self serving posts from Lord? Mark 7:*6 through 9!

Forum, it is a good thing that [we] do not see these 'secret things' in comparision to their open printed ones.  :'( Thank you Jesus!

But there is one thing that cannot be called into question, and that is that these ones have a [HOT DESIRE] to do [THE WORK] of someone that was also in the garden with both God & Cain! :'(

--John

Quote Raphu:
Our rest is no longer in a day, but in Jesus Christ. We rest from our labors in Him. His work accomplished our rest, which is what sabbath means. Our labor is to have faith in that which God has provided.

DITTO  ;D

This one scripture, Mat.24:20, does not deter me from believing that our rest is in Christ and Him alone as opposed to a 24hr. day. Actually, doesn't it sounds strange that winter or the Sabbath day would make any difference in a flight situation? It would not, but those that were staying inside a building might miss something that had to be seen to be realized. There is something happening outside that has to be seen outside in order for one to recognize and run to safety or salvation. As the Lord saved the thief on the cross, perhaps there will be some saved or just one at those last moments of time, just by their presense of mind to see that truth and accept it in a moment of time.

In Christ we have a better covenant. Hebrews compares the old covenant and the better covenant and what we have through Christ and His fulfillment of the law. The comparison in chapter four is between old and new which is the case throughout Hebrews in showing us what we have in Christ.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Go back and read Heb. 4:10 again and see that the comparison is made of the rest we enter into in Christ and through he better covenant to the old rest that God took from His works. The work is finished in Him so the verses in Col.2:16, Paul wrote, were given to those that kept on requiring works of the old law, including circumcision and observing the sabbath day. What do you think these verses mean? Our labor, now is to have faith in the work He did for us.

Heb. 4:11 ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

He is our rest and we are also hidden in Him (Col. 3:3,4). He is the Lord of the Sabbath because He is our sabbath rest. Sabbath means rest and the rest we have in Him and His work through the cross is what we are to boast of - not our vain works of obedience to a day which are like filthy rags compared to His work and sacrifice on the cross. Why go back and believe that our works would be superior to the work of God through His Son's final and once for all work at the cross. To believe Him and honor Him with our faith - that He did accomplish this work, is more precious to Him than gold, whereas those that seek to honor Him with the law must perform all of it to not be guilty breaking it all.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Heb 4:7 - Again he limiteth a certain day,.... Since the seventh day of the creation was a day of rest which God entered into, and not man; and since the land of Canaan was a typical rest, which the unbelieving Israelites did not enter into, because of unbelief; and yet there must be persons, and there must be a time for them to enter into the true rest which God has left a promise of; therefore he has limited, fixed, and appointed a certain day, the Gospel dispensation, for believers to enter into it:

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

My Bible is KJV and has Joshua in 4:8 as the comparison and 4:7 has the saying of David in Ps. 95 about the not hardening of heart.
Heb 4:4-7 -

He spake in a certain place. In Gen_2:2. There it is stated that "God rested on the seventh day from all his works." The Sabbath rest was therefore established long before Israel was denied entrance into the rest. Hence it is not the rest.

In this place again. In Psa_95:11, which declares that Israel should not enter into God's rest. Though Israel had kept the rest of the Sabbath, they had not entered into God's rest, as this language shows. The rest of the Sabbath is not then the promised rest, nor is Canaan below, from which nearly all Israel was once excluded, because David exhorts the people, though in Canaan, to enter into the rest.

Seeing . . . that some must enter. Since God has a rest for his people, and it is not made in vain, there must be some who enter therein. Those to whom it was first offered entered not because of their unbelief. Hence it remaineth to all who, like Joshua and Caleb, have faith.

Again he limiteth a certain day. The thought is that there is a day of opportunity. If that day is passed by, the opportunity is gone. The word of the Lord is, To-day if, etc.

Heb 4:8-11 -

For if Jesus. "Joshua" in the Revision. Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew word Joshua. Joshua led Israel over the Jordan into Canaan, but that did not give them complete rest. If that had been true, David would not have exhorted them to seek to enter into rest. Five hundred years after they entered Canaan this exhortation is given in the 95th Psalm.

There remaineth therefore a rest. Since God has a rest for his people, and neither the Sabbath nor Canaan is the rest, these being only types of that rest, a rest remaineth to the people of God.

For he that is entered into his rest. When God rested on the Sabbath, the type of the true rest, his works ceased. So when our rest comes, weary toil, trials and sufferings will be over.

Let us labor therefore. Since this glorious rest, the heavenly rest, remains for faithful believers, we should seek to enter upon it, and especially take heed that we do not come short through unbelieving disobedience as did Israel.

Our rest is in Jesus. Let us not fall short through unbelief and lack of faith.


Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Rest

1. Gr. katapausis, equivalent to the Hebrew word _noah_ #Heb 4:1
2. Gr. anapausis, "rest from weariness" #Mt 11:28
3. Gr. anesis, "relaxation" #2Th 1:7
4. Gr. sabbatismos, a Sabbath rest, a rest from all work #Heb 4:9 R.V., "sabbath"), a rest like that of God when he had finished the work of creation.

A matter of translation, probably, but similar and the same word.

Every commentary I can dig up agrees that Heb.4:8 refers to Joshua and not Jesus Christ as the one who could not lead Israel into rest.

Paul did have to chastise the early church for going back into the bondage of the law on many occasions. The letter to the Galatians is but one.

Faith is vital to our walk, and that, in Him our Lord Jesus, to whom every knee shall bow and tongue confess to the glory of the Father. He is our rest and the Lord of the sabbath - our Sabbath by faith.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons
Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2Pet. 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us ALL things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Col.2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Matt 24:20 was also fulfilled at the destruction of Jer. In 70 A.D. so it is possible that this part is only applicable to that partial fulfillment. Also, here is from John Gill's commentary:
 
neither on the sabbath day: the word "day" is not in the Greek text; and some {i} have been of opinion, that the "sabbatical year", or the seventh year, is meant, when no fruits would be found in the fields, and a great scarcity of provisions among people; who would not have a sufficiency, and much less any to spare to strangers fleeing from their native places; but rather the sabbath day, or "day of the sabbath", as the Persic version reads it, is designed; and Beza says, four of his copies read it in the genitive case: and so four of Stephens's. And the reason why our Lord put them on praying, that their flight might not be on the sabbath day, was, because he knew not only that the Jews, who believed not in him, would not suffer them to travel on a sabbath day more than two thousand cubits; which, according to their traditions {k}, was a sabbath day's journey; and which would not be sufficient for their flight to put them out of danger; but also, that those that did believe in him, particularly the Jerusalem Jews, would be all of them fond of the law of Moses, and scrupulous of violating any part of it, and especially that of the sabbath; see Ac 21:20. And though the Jews did allow, that the sabbath might be violated where life was in danger, and that it was lawful to defend themselves against an enemy on the sabbath day; yet this did not universally obtain; and it was made a question of, after the time of Christ, whether it was lawful to flee from danger on the sabbath day;

You guys Raphu and ambassador, who are resting in Christ better wake up and get to work! Seems HIS rest hasnt started yet.

2 THES.1 [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

When will the rest with Jesus begin? Raphu, seems ya hit a snafu! According to scripture its when HE returns. Many have stated here that they need not keep Gods sabbath because they rest in Jesus. And now the REST of the story.

REVELATIONS 20 [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The 1000 year period of rest. Theres your rest with Jesus.

ISAIAH 66  [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

And according to the WORD of GOD, HIS people will still be keeping the sabbath during that rest.

PSALMS 132 [8] Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.[9] Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.[10] For thy servant David's sake turn not away the face of thine anointed.[11] The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.[12] If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.[13] For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.[14] This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Arise into thy rest, this is my rest for ever

ISAIAH 14 [3] And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear,and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,[4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased![5] The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.[6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.[7] The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet:

Above scripture says it shall come to pass in that day (verse 3)the LORD shall give thee rest. Verse 7 says at that time the whole world is at rest. Well, i know for sure the whole world is not at rest.  The rest with Jesus will not begin until he returns according to all the scriptures i found. Has anyone found other scriptures that say otherwise.Raphu or Ambassador???

DEUT.12  [9] For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
[10] But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;

RISE AND SHINE BOYS



               

John here:
Just a side thought on Christ as our REST. [Whose Word] is seen in Psalms, Davids or Christs? Or any Words of Inspiration for that matter, in ALL of the Word?? ??? Are you saying that Peter is the Word?

The important thinking of the Heb. rest, is that it is after Christ decended back to the heavens & sent the Holy Spirit to 'bring things back to our remembrance'. (as well as other works)

John 1 states whose WORDS?
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of Grace and TRUTH."

Some seem to want their own 'arm of flesh'. (commentaries or even Joshua)

It does not seem troublesome with the Heb. 4:8 verse if one really believed that the Word IS CHRIST! Notice the Word's Word of 'UNBELIEF'. This IS the seperating factor of knowledgeable Christianity as seen in verse 6. (or the 2 Cor. 3:3 ones)

---John

I dunno John the Baptizer
I just believe what it says . If you dont add or subtract from the WORD, it simply says believers will keep HIS sabbath day of rest. ON the 7th day . Just as God did.

HEBREWS 4

[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

[4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all
his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

[8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Verses1-3 Those that believe do enter into rest! Dont come short of it! Have faith in the WORD!

Verse 4-5 He spoke of the 7th day of rest. Just as GOD did at the time of creation. The 7th day!

Verse 6-7 There remains some, even after so long a time, that have not entered this rest because of unbelief. True believers(without the spirit of unbelief)will enter this rest.

Verse 8 If Jesus became their rest, would HE not have spoken of another day.I know most of the newer bibles have changed the name of Jesus to Joshua. WHY? What they tryin to conceal?

Verse 9 The sabbath rest remains therefore TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD! The 1000yr period of rest has not even started. HOW CAN THAT REMAIN?

Verse 10-11 Enter into this rest (just as GOD did) .Look at verse 4! The 7th day! THE SABBATH!

Ive seen pages and pages written about above scriptures trying to explain that it doesnt really mean what it says.
Just believe what it says and enter into the rest GOD created for us. The rest that sanctifys us and sets believers apart from none believers. Happy sabbath day all.

Wreck N Sow, John here,
It is easy to see the end time saved ones are the Rev. 12:17 ones. ;) It states that the two [MATURE] character developed traits of love here as being... Keeping the commandments of **God [AND] the **Testimony of Christ.
A new thing? Hardly!

But on this 'rest' 'in' Christ. The ONLY way it benifits these ones in Rev. 12:17 is because of their RELATIONSHIP with their [MASTER]! Matt. 4:4, and perhaps the best verse is 2 Cor. 3:3! His EPISTLE! (epistle or letter are His commandments, or His CHARACTER PERSONIFIED! Isa. 42:21)

And all others? their condition is on very shaky grounds, notice! "If I had not SPOKEN unto them, they HAD NOT HAD SIN: [BUT NOW THEY HAVE NO CLOAK FOR THERE SIN.]" John 15:22. And the last part of verse 24? (think of the Rev. 12:17 commandments of God!)
"... but now have they both SEEN AND HATED MY FATHER]".

I wonder if they really know what they are doing to Christ?? Heb. 6:6. And that is done OPENLY & with FULL KNOWLEDGE!

All of [us] today, with the 'increased knowledge of the last days', the 'showers of refreshings' falling all over the world, and the spiritual agitation everywhere seen, both good & even of the bad, as of Noah's day, so that this gives [very little] hope to any of these 'STILL' Vain ones of Titus 3:9-11. (check their profession out in 2 Tim. 3:5? POWER/LESS to live a Christian life! and verse 11!!)

Had you ever seen the forth commandments 'ones' of Ex. 20 having an 'REST IN CHRIST' mentioned? Then that those ones there were mentioned as taking these other ones to church for worship with them arbitrarily? (the next paragraph ones that is!) No, because anyone can see (if they will) that it is talking about a LORD'S DAY to Worship Christ.

The stranger (per/say) or the manservant, and ones CATTLE  within thy gates has a worship 'in' Christ???
It is not very complicated what the Gen. 4:7 ones are doing! Even the 'only believe' with out any LOVING works teaching, is showing *their HOT [WORKING] 'DESIRE' for another!

These guys are coming out of the woodwork with their twisted stuff! 2 Cor. 4:2. What's New huh, the Word asks? (the Eccl. verses!) The 'd'evil knows that his time is short! Thank you Jesus!

And these Professed followers of Christ, are bringing Sunday flowers 'in' (Rom. 8:1's) worship, huh? Check Gen. 4:7 again. Oh well, there is some time perhaps left for a correction. (666 for the ignorant sincere ones) Rev. 18:4. But we see the 'others' as a repeated denomination having a closed door FIRST! 1 Peter 4:17. Matt. 25.

---John


******

Romans 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

**
No offence intended! J/t/B/ here:
Do your own thing ??? We can sin by FREEDOM of choice, either way.

But the days that you are talking about are the days behind the Temple Vail. These days ALL were done away at the death of the Master. That RENT VAIL made the way INTO THE MOST HOLY! Do you understand what IS there with our High Priest Jesus Christ?? Heb. 13:20 still calls it the EVERLASTING COVENANT. Its day had always 'everlastingly' been in existance!

Yet, still some entered in because of un/belief. Void out the forth commandment?? Wow! not me friend! 1 John 2:4 & Isa. 8:20, & then Christ's own Words of.. "IF ye love me keep my commandments".

And did the Master tell Cain that any old sacrifice would do? (any other day of worship for worship) See Gen. 4:6-7. And about JUDGING?? Or Cain being 'wroth'?? Is it you, or whoever the posts are meant for.. that are wroth?? Please be sure, that it is not me. And again 'i' say, do your own thing!  ???
 
---John

PS: If you think that i am judging you, you are badly mis/taken! But your postings [message] STINKS! :'( So, if this Truth offends you, that is your judgement, not mine.

"And He saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

"And when He had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, He saith unto the man. Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other" (Mark 3:4,5).

Why did our Lord become angry when the Jewish leaders
refused to answer His questions? He was "grieved for the
hardness of their hearts." Their silence was not the silence
of ignorance but of willfulness. They had "watched Him
whether He would heal...on the sabbath day; that they
might accuse Him," but they could not tell Him what was
wrong about it. Indeed, when He asked them what was
wrong they refused to answer His questions.

How inconsistent! How unreasonable! How unjust! And,
as we read the context, we are amazed to find that this sul-
len, stubborn opposition came not from the Sadducees but
from the Pharisees, not the religious "liberals" but the "con-
servatives," the Bible-believers of the day!

They were the orthodox group. Nevertheless, because of
their pride and bigotry generations following have looked
down upon them and have pronounced with contempt the
name Pharisee.

Paul stood with them, doctrinally, against the Sadducees.
He said: "Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee" (Acts 23:6),
nevertheless the Pharisees had joined the Sadducees in
their opposition to him and to the glorious message he pro-
claimed. In this respect times have not changed, for those
who stand boldly for God's message and program for our
day will find themselves still opposed by Sadducees and
Pharisees alike.

Grace & Peace

Brother Love :)

No, How about

"And He saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

"And when He had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, He saith unto the man. Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other" (Mark 3:4,5).

Why did our Lord become angry when the Jewish leaders
refused to answer His questions? He was "grieved for the
hardness of their hearts." Their silence was not the silence
of ignorance but of willfulness. They had "watched Him
whether He would heal...on the sabbath day; that they
might accuse Him," but they could not tell Him what was
wrong about it. Indeed, when He asked them what was
wrong they refused to answer His questions.

How inconsistent! How unreasonable! How unjust! And,
as we read the context, we are amazed to find that this sul-
len, stubborn opposition came not from the Sadducees but
from the Pharisees, not the religious "liberals" but the "con-
servatives," the Bible-believers of the day!

They were the orthodox group. Nevertheless, because of
their pride and bigotry generations following have looked
down upon them and have pronounced with contempt the
name Pharisee.

Paul stood with them, doctrinally, against the Sadducees.
He said: "Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee" (Acts 23:6),
nevertheless the Pharisees had joined the Sadducees in
their opposition to him and to the glorious message he pro-
claimed. In this respect times have not changed, for those
who stand boldly for God's message and program for our
day will find themselves still opposed by Sadducees and
Pharisees alike.

Grace & Peace

Brother Love :)

P.S.

In this respect times have not changed, for those
who stand boldly for God's message and program for our
day will find themselves still opposed by Sadducees and
Pharisees alike.

                      (removed)

Grace & Peace

Brother Love :)

*****
How about simply put, "God IS LOVE"? & "IF (ye) LOVE ME keep my Commandments"? And, Acts 5:32! And, we will 'DESIRE' one or the other of Gen. 4:7 or Eph. 6:12?? Try John 12:42-43 for it not only being the Phasisees that made a Godly pretense only!!! And Christ COMMAND in Matt. 23:3!! :'( :'( (poor deludes lost souls that were PROMISED them LIBERTY as in 2 Peter 2:19. Read on through verse 22!)

And yes, the FINISHED MATURITY of SIN will bring eternal death :'(. James 1:15 or ETERNAL LIFE :)! But it DEPENDS on [IF] we have the FIRST HEART TRANSPLANT of the MASTER'S EPISTLE WRITTEN IN OUR MIND BY THE BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE. 2 Cor. 3:3-John 3:3. Talk will not do it!

The EPISTLE of CHRIST is the VERY CHARACTER OF THE GODHEAD! Can one do away with His CHARACTER??? Nail it to the cross, only believe it???? Now, who are the 'legalist'? And now who would kill if you do not believe as they?? Or is HATE not murder when finished?? See Isa. 42:21.

REST: WOW!! I am thankful that God has a ETERNAL LAW OF LIBERTY! Jms. 2:8-12 & that [HIS GRACE IS] SUFFICIENT FOR ME & that 'i' CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST THAT STRENGTHENETH me! HIS CHARACTER IS *FREEDOM unless one chooses the 'bondage' of will-ful dis/obedience! And yes, James 1:15 again. And yes, again, LORD I DO LOVE YOU! But is it the FATAL LOVE of Rev. 3:16-17?

---John
******

                              (removed)

*****
Me again, just wondering, did you read [any] of the verses???
John 12:42-43?? And was [the Pharisee] Nicodemus the only one that [MUST BE BORN AGAIN]??

Morning Brolove
Im not sure what your trying to say? But the sabbath was made by Jesus. HE said HE was Lord over that day. HE said that the sabbath was made for man. But the religious leaders of those times added more to the sabbath commandment then GOD did with the original commandment. Jesus was without sin and HE(even according you to sunday go to meeting guys) was under the the commandments. The sabbath day was sanctified by God. Man cannot sanctify another day. Worship HIM through the commandments and doctrines of man and you worship HIM in vain.

Just some stuff about gates

LUKE 13  [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,[24] Strive to
enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[27] But he shall say,I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. WHY?

MATT.7  [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Strait gate-leads to life (few that find it? Isnt  Christianity the biggest religion in the world?)

REV.22   [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may
enter in through the gates into the city.

Enter in through the gates-tree of life- into the city-that do his commandments

JER.17   [24] And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;[25] Then
shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots
and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever.

Sabbath-Enter in through the gates-no burden-this city shall remain FOR EVER

MATT.11 [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.[30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

I will give you rest - my burden is light

In the new testament Jesus said HE was LORD of the sabbath day of rest. He also said the sabbath was made
by GOD for man. My question is who made Sunday the day of rest? And who is lord over that day?

EZEK.46  [1] Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

Seems that (according to scripture) theres only 1 day of the week(and new moon,still not sure what that means)you can enter the gate.

Thank You Jesus

AMEN! Raphu

The religious system sure is impressive. They have a form (appearance) of godliness. But even though they are "ever learning," they are "never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (II Timothy 3:7).

Just a little somethin extra to show how great the WORD is! There are only 2 places in the KJV were the words
(moreover also) can be found

EZEK.20  [12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them

ACTS 2 [26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

If you will notice in ACTS 2 the WORD says “my flesh shall rest in hope”. Just as GODS 4th commandment reads.

How True

Brother Love :)

The things that have come to pass concerning Gods sabbath are spoken of in the scriptures. Warnings in the the new
testament about roaring lions,ravenous wolves.

1 PETER 5[8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking
whom  he may devour:

the devil - a roaring lion- devouring

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that
find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Beware of false prophets - They are ravening wolves

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

More wolves

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in
the vanity of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given
themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

Vanity - Clean and unclean - greed

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

Is this the system you 2 are speaking of (BRO & Ambassador)
roaring lions - ravening wolves - conspiracy of her prophets - violated MY law - to get dishonest gain -
devoured souls - vanity - uncleanness
HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS    
the day of indignation is THE DAY OF THE LORD!

Again i wanna say, if something is being said in scripture on The Day of the Lord, thats the bottom line. We all have one goal. The WORD says seek and ye shall find.  The WORD also says if you follow a prophet you will recieve that prophets reward. Dont be decieved.


ZEPH.3  Verses1-8 If you wish to read more on these people

RAPHU posted this scripture
Romans 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

John the Baptist(or anyone)All these scriptures the sunday go to meetin guys send to explain away Gods sabbath, ive found scriptures to prove their points not true except the above. By no means do i believe this scripture to say the 4th commandment of God has been done away with. If God had done that HE would of course come right out and say it in the scriptures. I have found scriptures speaking of eating and drinking things on specific holy days, but i believe we are to still keep Gods holy days.They were givin by ordinance. And the new testament is clear that it was the law contained in these ordinances that Jesus fulfilled. Anyways, has anyone found scripture that would explain the scripture Raphu sent?

wreck n sow,

I am afraid it is futile to push this point..

The ordinances have been abolished.

Have you read;

2 Cor 3
3:1  Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2  Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
4  And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5  Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8  How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9  For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11  For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12  Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13  And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14  But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
15  But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.
16  Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.
17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The ordinances, have been abolished, these were given as the answer to them that broke the law, but where there is not law, there is no need for ordinances.

The Apostles and Elders, resolved this matter, once and foreve at the first Council at Jerusalm, when they by the Holy Spirit, rejected the teaching, that circumcision and Law of Moses, had to be observed by Christians, you can read the whole story at Acts 15, I would encourage to do so.

Romans 4, teaches us that Abraham, was given the promises, while in uncircumsicion before the law was given;

11  ..........the sign of circumcisiona seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12  And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13  For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14  For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15  Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Jesus, has abolished death in His flesh, and brought life and immortality to lite through the Gospel. (2 Tim 1:10)

During the OT period, everyone was under the Law, until the promise of the Faith which should come (Gal 3:22-25), whoever broke the law was put to death, that very day;

So by your teaching, Christians who do not keep the Sabaath, the 4th Commandment, are worthy of death. This is an erroneous teaching.

While the transgression of the Law  in the period of the Law the OT, caused death,  to them that have been saved, during this age of Grace (the NT period) the Law has no power to kill the soul, since it is not subject to the law of sin and death, it Christians  lives unto a higher Law, the Law of Faith.

Please note;

Rom 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29  Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30  Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 6
14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

The Law was simply a schoolmaster to bring men to Christ, once having done it job, men are no longer under the Law.

Yes, Christians are to obey the Commandments, the day the Lord  rested was the Sabbath, but he speaks of another day of rest for His people, and it is the new day, we observe, it is the day, Jesus rose from the dead, the firts day of the week.

It is the new day we look to, which will dawn in our hearts.
(2 Pet 1:19)

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Blessings
Petro

*********
John here:
Christ saves conditionally on the GodHead's Everlasting Covenant. (the one that He wrote! Heb. 13:20 is it! It is in Gods Temple INSIDE the Ark! Rev. 11:19 & 1 Kings 8:9)

This *agreement IS ETERNALLY called the [EVERLASTING GOSPEL!] See Rev. 14:6. They CANNOT BE SEPERATED FOR THEY ARE JOINED TOGETHER. The Covenant IS THE VERY CHARACTER OF CHRIST, HIS 'EPISTAL'!! See 2 Cor. 3:3.

The Sabbath day(S) were not the Sabbath day of the Forth Commandment in the Covenant. In Deut. 30:6 & 10 we see what God will do, & then what they were to do. (conditional) Notice 'the book of the law'. (again refer to the 31'st chapter verse 9 & 26, same book) These ALL pointed unto the SEED THAT WAS TO COME in Gal. 3:19. OK?

What are these Sabbath's'?? 2 Cron. 8:13 tells us. "... offering according to the [commandment of Moses], on the [SABBATHS] (plural) and on the new moons, (s) THREE times a year, even the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of week(S), and in the feast of tabernacles." (do you remember the 'easter' of Acts 12:1-5? Today these 'folk' keep the 'days of unleavened bread'! that is Easter that is done away with! FINISHED ;))

Now was Paul telling them that he believed in forced worship? Hardly! Even though his inspiration about ceremonial law had nothing to do with the Law of God's Sabbath, he still has choice Words for these ones! Notice in Titus 3:8-11 he talks of this being a [faithful]
saying, then he tells us... 'But AVOID FOOLISH QUESTIONS (??) ... and STRIVINGS ABOUT THE LAW: for they ARE VAIN.

(Now notice after the first & second admonition..) A man that IS A HERETICK after the (ONLY) first and second admonition REJECT: KNOWING that he that IS SUCH IS SUBVERTED, AND SINNETH, and is condemned of himself."

You can quickly tell if one is sincere! IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS! Otherwise Rom. 8:14 is VOID! (see 1 John 4:6)

A forum might be some differant because of the multitude of wittness. But these  ;D ;D ones that post?? we best heed the Master's inspiration!  One on the forum here has even been accused of copying anothers work, and using it for there own.

Now, another thought about this question? Who is it that saves? Christ! Acts. 4:12.. When one is saved (Born Again) he is a SERVANT to his Master! Why?? BECAUSE HE LOVES HIM! OK?? :)

[Christ says].. 'IF' ye LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. Does one judge anothers MOTIVES as if we could read the mind? Hardly! Now, when we LEARN (Rom. 8:14) new Truth what do we do with it IF we REALLY LOVE CHRIST? Try Hosea 4:6, & Rev. 18:4. AND: Could I baptise anyone as Christ commanded in Matt. 28:20 knowing that they did not keep the Sabbath Day? NO WAY! Now, could he be sincerely ignorant? All that I know is that he would not belong in membership with Sabbath keepers of Rev. 12:17.  

In closing out. The only ones that are guilty of sin are the ones who [KNOW] TO DO GOOD AND [DO IT NOT], TO [HIM IT IS SIN]. Jms. 4:17 (or have had the oppurtunity, see Hosea 4:6) We CANNOT do anything more than the knowledge that we have, huh?

---John

PS: About the eating thing. Anyone can die before his time by IGNORANT eating, or eating habits. If they do not KNOW any better, they will still die on time, yet will be saved with the knowledge that they lived up to. See Luke 12:47-48. One are saved & the other lost, yet in the 'execution' stage of judgement you can see who will suffer the worst sentance.  

 

God's law is NEVER done away with - not one jot or tittle. It is, however, complete and fulfilled IN CHRIST. Did He not say, "I will give you rest"? Did He not say, "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."

Col. 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Philippians 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Philippians 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans goes on in 14 to say: "17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."

Can we lift up our righteousness to God and say, "look at my righteousness", or lift up someones else and say "look at the sins of this man"? No, it is wrong and the same thing the Pharisee did to the sinner in scripture. We are free from that through the once and for all righteousness we have in Christ's final work on the cross. He said, "it is finished", and the complete work of righteousness was done in Him so I can no longer boast in anything I do but only the cross and what He did for me.

The law is never done away with, but established forever in Him, and He is love.

1Jo 4:16  And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Lu 16:17  And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Ro 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Ro 13:10  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

******
Raphu: (John here)
What is it that you are saying here, that [you] believe?

That the Laws of Moses are what were fulfilled at Christ's cross? Gal. 3:19. Or do you say, NO?? Or, that ALL are FINISHED once we are Born Again in Christ? Even the last six ten that GOVERN the UNSAVED by Caesar's law??? Rom. 13

And are you saying that now, any one who is IN CHRIST (Rom. 8:1) are in the last 'FINISHED' answer to the 'end of our maturity' & we now are saved and CANNOT GO OUT OF CHRIST EVER AGAIN??? Robots in other words!

This teaching is DANGEROUSLY FALSE! Read Heb. 6:6 & 2 Peter 2:19-22

The Word teaches that ALL REMAIN "IN CHRIST" only with  the PROVISIONS that ETERNITY had access to! (see Heb.'s plural on other world's' & John 15:5 along with Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9)

All of Gods creation were perfect at creation, (IN CHRIST) yet needed TESTING to develope a 'perfect character'. That is why the tree was in the garden in the first place.

---John

2Cor. 11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Raphu: (John again)
It seems that the 'd'evil is in the 'spam' jesuit tactic game here on this site? Not just of stealing others work, but that of quickly covering up 'present day truth' to boot! :'( (more than one agent here, it seems too? see Gen. 4:7)

Anyway, if you are not yoked into this evil maturity, and want to learn more 'knowledge' (see Hosea 4:6) drop me an email at my address below & I will send you [another site] to check out?

pastornb@cherco.net

---John

Spam? others work?LOL ;D

Its Gods Word, and it is for and about you.

2Cor. 11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

John and Ambassador
Kiss and make up. All are our nieghbors. You know what the WORD says about that. Yas know what a little leaven does.

Petro
Thanks for answer but the ordinances and the commandments are not one and the same. Nor the law of Moses. The scripture you sent says we are to walk in the spirit. If you walk in the letter only and not the spirit it will kill you. Yes, but you cant keep the spirit of the law and not walk in the letter of it also. Jesus magnified the law. HE made it even greater by explaining how to walk in the spirit of the law.For example adultry. Jesus said if you look on a woman to lust youve already committed adultry in your heart. This is the spirit of the law. Can you tell me how you cannot walk in the letter(the very act of adultry)while keeping the spirit of the law. Same goes for thou shall not kill and thinkin evil in your heart against your neighbor. Cant keep the spirit without keeping the letter.

WhiteHorse agrees. Wreck and Sow will now tell us which commandment it is that he is referring to? Hopefully!

Interesting!
If these two agree, that makes three, for I agree tooooo! :)

Hay, there is another one, the guy that post's up with blue ink, huh? Wow, that is four, on this site???

---John

>>>"IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."<<<

Wreck and Sow will now tell us which commandment it is that he is referring to? Hopefully

Ya lost me here Big John. Not sure what your refering to.

Hay Wreck & .. ,
perhaps I was lost on the pen name, & it was the guy that writes in blue? But anyway, this post of yours will do the job!  ;) And of course we all know which commandment that the devil hates. Dan. 7:25
----John
*******

quote author=Wreck N Sow link=board=3;threadid=100;start=15#msg5417 date=1054299701]
Hi WhiteHorse
The problem lies in believing the WORD says what it says

MATT.19   [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Many will say, yes it says "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments".And they say they believe this. But if they dont happen to like 1 of the commandments they will say that the commandments are not the 10 commandments.And they will give their various reasons for this.

Hay
What does everyone think and belief about the scripture below? Whats the scripture speaking of?

COL.2  [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Oklahoma Howdy to Wreck N Sow,

It is impossible to answer that question unless you understand the Gospel of the Grace of God and the meaning of the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross. Christ was and is the fulfillment of many things that were foretold. The verses above mean exactly what they appear to mean. A child of God can have fellowship with Christ continuously, not just one day a week. A child of God does have the Holy Spirit living in his or her heart every minute of every day. A child of God may pray and commune with the Lord and Saviour on any day and at any time without the assistance or blessing of a High Priest. The fulfillment of the Law by Christ is still a mystery to many. The Gospel of God's Grace is also a mystery, or at least confusion, to many. God's GIFT allows his children to rest in Christ and the Holy Spirit in them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

A work was completed at Calvary by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. It is finished, and his children rest safe and secure IN HIM. Further, HE is with His children and the HOLY SPIRIT dwells in the heart of His children. So, what is the Sabbath and when is it? The answer is IN CHRIST, NOT THE LAW.

Howdy back at ya Black eyed Peas
I want ya to know when i question what ya wrote im not personally attacking you. I was taught these same things.

you wrote
 A child of God does have the Holy Spirit living in his or her heart every minute of every day
THE WORD SAYS
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Thats pretty clear BEPs. Keep commandments=recieve Holy Spirit

You said
A child of God may pray and commune with the Lord and Saviour on any day
THE WORD SAYS
PROVERBS 28 [9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
[10] Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright
shall have good things in possession.
Turn from the law=prayers wont be heard

You said
The fulfillment of the Law by Christ is still a mystery to many
THE WORD SAYS
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I know the earth is still here. So...No mystery here.

You said
God's GIFT allows his children to rest in Christ
THE WORD SAYS
2 THES.1 [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
according to the WORD your rest might be a bit early.

You wrote
The Gospel of God's Grace is also a mystery
THE WORD SAYS
PROVERBS 4 [4] He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.[5] Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.[6] Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.[7] Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.[8] Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.[9] She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.
Keep my commandments - get wisdom - She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace

I heard and was taught all those things to BlackeyedPeas.When i read that the whole world would be decieved i decided to read the WORD and believe what it says no matter who said what. The WORD also makes it clear that but a few will be saved. And in the new testament the WORD says that the old testament scriptures will make you wise unto salvation. So... That is what i believe.

A work was completed at Calvary by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. It is finished, and his children rest safe and secure IN HIM. Further, HE is with His children and the HOLY SPIRIT dwells in the heart of His children. So, what is the Sabbath and when is it? The answer is IN CHRIST, NOT THE LAW.

Amen blackeyedpeas Amen

*********
John here:
Why not go back to the start of mankind & forget the Sanctuary added things for the question of Obedience & character TESTING?? These few 'sincere' guys here are still on milk! And the other boastfully saved ones?? See where they are located at in 2 Peter 3:14-17. O-P-E-N-L-Y! (at present)

The HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES has nothing to do with The WRITING OF GOD'S TEN [COMMANDMENTS IN TABLES OF *STONE & *THEN IN THE FLESHY TABLES OF A BORN AGAIN BELIEVER'S MIND]. In FACT, that is the Top Priority for the TESTING OF ALL OF HIS WORD, to see if 'PROFESSORS' are [LIARS OR NOT]!!!! See Isa. 8:20

NO ONE was, or is SAVED BY ANY OTHER KIND OF GRACE AS SEEN [IN] CHRIST!! See Rom. 8:1. In CHRIST means no law?
Hog/wash! That was the first liar's message started in the
Heavenly Throne above. See Eze. 28 & Isa. 14:12-14.

These ALL DIED IN THE FAITH!! Heb. 11:13. See the FAITH of Gen. 3:15...The Lamb of of God that TAKETH AWAY THE SINS OF THE OBEDIENT! Acts 5:32. The DIS/OBEDIENT STILL HAVE THEM! Rom. 3:31. All OTHERS are [LOST] with out the Holy Ghost. No one on here seem's to know or even much care about the [VAIL] being rent from top to the bottom at Christ's death, MAKING THE WAY [INTO] THE MOST HOLY PLACE IN HEAVEN ITSELF, WHERE THE ARK OF GOD IS AT, WITH THE LAW OF GOD INSIDE THE ARK? Huh, they say????? ???--- :'( But tears do not help!

One does not need either the Holy ghost or 'OBEDIENT' Faith some claim. (just believe they say! Bottom line is just forget Acts 5:32) They try to change a EVERLASTING GOSPEL GOD as they 'see' fit, (satan's doctrine really) and the ONE THAT IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND [FOREVER]? satan tells us that the Master's 'EPISTLE' CHARACTER (Everlasting Covenant) is also changed! finished! Voided out!

Little is understood of an 'mature' Cain in Gen. 4:7 talking even perhaps face to face with the Master, and being told that the fruit sacrifice would cause his last act of sin to take place! James 1:15. Regardless of what sin it was, it was MATURE rebellion in the LAST STAGE. (Sunday for the Sabbath is rejecting the Master as was fruit substituted for the Lamb of God offering) And then the devil became the now, lost sinner Cains DESIRE! What is NEW? God says NOTHING IS NEW UNDER THE SUN!

The bottom line is simpley put: "[IF] YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS"! Also Matt. 28:20! And Rev. 12:17 & 1 John 2:4. So it is not hard to 'see' that for a 'Born Again' Christian,  understanding your verses, are not even neccessary, huh? See Rom. 2:14-15! These ones WERE BORN AGAIN and never even heard of the Master by 'name only'!! Yet [they HAD HIS CHARACTER] CREATED INTO THEIR HEARTS! :) :)

He, the Converted one of [TODAY] are too know, that the above texts from Col. all speak about the law that Moses wrote in a BOOK & placed in the [side] of God Royal Ark. (see Deut. 31) Which is a pattern of His Ark in the Throne room in the heavens! And that [satans lying idea] (teachings)  obviated ALL LAW FOR ALL OF THE [ONCE] SAVED and + ones even, huh? From heaven on down, himself & his fallen angels included.  

As told you before, before the saved of Eze. 37's 'all'  dead ones can come out of the closet (grave) they need the Born Again life! (LIFE, LIVE, WORKS OF LOVE!! MIDNIGHT CRY of Matt. 25's AWAKENING!!! ALL are asleep it says!)

Bottom line. You might try another forum? Send me an email if you are interested.

In the Master's quickly FINISHED work for the house of God First, (1 Peter 4:17)
                      John

Oklahoma Howdy to Wreck N Sow,

You asked the question, and I tried to answer it. I find it ironic that I made a detailed post on this same subject before seeing your post. It is labeled "From Law to Grace" under this same section.

I'm not a preacher, and I know that I'm not very eloquent with words. However, I think that I gave you the plain and correct truth. I also suffer from the "bull in a china closet" syndrome, so I'm too blunt at times. It appears that you didn't like the answer I gave to your question. Let's see your answer to your own question.

First, you won't be able to give an answer without involving Christ and the meaning of his crucifixion, as HE is in the verses that are part of the question. Second, I don't think there is any other explanation that what I gave, but I look forward to seeing your reply. I'll give you a hint to help you with your answer with a second question that you should answer first. What does it mean that Christ came to fulfill the law? Who did HE fulfill the law for and for what purpose?

The Gospel of God's Grace is CHRIST and CHRIST crucified. At the time, this was a mystery not known to men from previous ages. This is the GOOD NEWS, something foretold but not understood.

In Christ.

Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

I wondered where you were, so I went looking. Low and behold, I found you over here preaching the Gospel of God's Grace.

In Christ.

Oklahoma Howdy to John The Baptist,

I see that you didn't even attempt to answer Wreck N Sow's question about the verses he quoted from the New Testament. An answer from your perspective about those verses would be very difficult. Would you prefer that those and other verses be removed from the Holy Bible?

It appears that you are attempting to live under the law, and you are happy in your attempt. I am extremely happy to live under the Gospel of God's Grace. I saw you talking about leaving the forum because of us evil, In Christ, Believers, and partakers of God's Grace types. Yes, I am one of those TO THE CORE AND EXTREMELY HAPPY ABOUT IT. However, I would appreciate you answering one question for me. For what purpose did God send his Son to take the form of a man and be crucified on the cross? Did this GIFT change anything?

YES, I AM IN CHRIST!!!!!!!

Black eyed Peas
I see that you didn't even attempt to answer Wreck N Sow's question about the verses he quoted from the New Testament. An answer from your perspective about those verses would be very difficult. Would you prefer that those and other verses be removed from the Holy Bible?

This seems to be national christian pick on John week.Remember B.E.P.youve already removed those scriptures from the bible that i sent earlier in reply to your reply.

Hello AWL-what ya carvin up today

ORDINANCES OF THE SABBATHS, NEW MOONS AND FEAST DAYS

2 KINGS 17[36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

As you can see in above scripture-the ordinances,the law,and the commandments are all separate. Many have
come in the name of Christ and have decieved many, saying that HE nailed the ordinances, the law, and the ten commandments to the cross.
But thats not what the bible says

COL.2  [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Above scripture says the handwriting of the ordinances were nailed to the cross. The 10 commandments were not nailed to the cross and niether were the ordinances. Only the laws contained in these ordinances which pointed to Jesus.
On the sabbaths,  new moons,  and the holydays (feast days)

NEH.10 [32] Also we made ordinances for us, to charge ourselves yearly with the third part of a shekel for the
service of the house of our God;[33] For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Do ya see how these offerings were made as an ordinance (the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel), which pointed  to Christ (a shadow of Christ) and were done during these days.
The sabbaths - new moon - set feasts

2 CHR.8  [12] Then Solomon offered burnt offerings unto the LORD on the altar of the LORD, which he had built before the porch,[13] Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

The sabbaths - new moon - solemn feasts
As we can plainly see its not the sabbaths or the new moon or GODS holy days that were nailed to the cross. It was the meat and drink offerings of those days that were nailed to the cross! Think about the last supper! The bread and the wine! JESUS abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances!

ISAIAH 24 [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

The bottom line is THE DAY OF THE LORD! He will come with fire! They changed the ordinance! They transgressed the laws. But there will be a FEW who will try to obey GOD.
BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD  and not the words of men!

John
Glad ya brought up Ezek. He was a good old boy. Ill post some stuff tommorro that has to do with easter and that passage ya sent.

**********
Hay, (Hi)
your stuff above reminded me of something. I wonder what you think of ALL of these (most?) coming out of the 'closet'
and they have no personal e-mail to 'reason together' in their profile??

Perhaps that is the way they think that Christ sent out His 'workers' huh? (or only believe ones?)

Whatever? Looking foward to your EASTER blessing,  :) ;) Gal. 1:6-9!

---John

Hi John
Most this came from encyclopia. So believe it or not. Doesnt matter. But it was interesting to read in light of what the bible says would happen. The 10 scattered tribes were scattered because they were following Baal and in light of whats happened since, they appear to be still following for the most part.

Known as Isis to the Egyptions, Ostara, Eostre, Venus, Aphrodite, Astarte, and other names in other cultures, she was Diana to the Romans, but most commonly known as Ishtar, pronouned EASTER.
She symbolized the female principle, as Baal symbolized maleness. The Babylonian and Assyrian counterpart was called Ishtar. Easter Sunrise Service: This custom can be traced back to the ancient Pagan custom of welcoming the sun God at the vernal equinox - when daytime is about to exceed the length of the nighttime. It was a time to ‘’celebrate the return of life and reproduction to animal and plant life as well”

John. The easter bunnys and eggs. Did you ever wonder what that had to with Christ?

EZEK.8 [13] He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.[14] Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.[15] Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Tammuz was killed by a wild boar. Semiramus is said to have WEPT for Tammuz 4o days, after which, he would be resurrected. This was during the springtime, when crops were planted. Hence, the eastern sunrise service honoring the resurrection, following the 40 days of "weeping for Tammuz", better known as LENT

You know the 1 place where easter is mentioned in the bible(king james),i went back to look at original spelling. Well, its spelled exactly the way passover is spelled.  

Hi, gotta run, but the Acts 12 chapter is a bundle of truth! verses 1-5 explains who were keeping the EASTER FEASTS DAYS of Gal. 4:9-11. And who is it today that are following Rome in Easter Sunday keeping?

We just cannot tell right off if they are ignorant 'sincere' Christians, or just plain ignorant?

Thanks for the commentary remark.

---John

Oklahoma Howdy to Wreck and Baptist,

Many folks don't publish their E-mails on forums because of mail robots that harvest them. This usually results in tons of spam, much of it being of the gross variety.

If you boys are going to try to keep the law, you won't have time for E-mail. You boys need to get busy collecting the things you will need in the attempt. I'm not sure where you will find a High Priest to serve on your behalf, but that won' matter if you don't have a proper sacrifice. Further, you will really need to understand which violations involve a death sentence. One has to be alive to observe the Sabbath. Good luck boys.

I, for one, will rely on and trust in my LORD AND SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST.

***********
Back Wreck:
About the sincere or ignorant thing? These guys on here remind me of the Catholic thread over on the

Logan@123christian.com
(this is his email-ask him his site address)

There is a quote posted there for 'brain dead' Catholics from their [own] work. They don't see it of course, but take a look at the quote & let me know if you can see why it is so hard to reach ones set in dead denominational doctrines. Here is the quote with my highlights:

"We have NO RIGHT to ask reasons of the church, anymore than of Almighty God, as a preliminary to OUR SUBMISSION, We are to take with UNQUESTIONING DOCILITY, WHATEVER THE CHURCH GIVES US." ---The Catholic World, page 589.

And Baptists? 'Once saved Always Saved', Burning in hell eternally?? The devils first lie, that one does not die, but has an eternal soul?? And then, using the Catholics Sunday 's'abbath thing that ALL of her Daughters defend with every ounce of WORK, and then they say that you are saved & need no work!!? WOW, huh???

Hay, here is another one. (take a deep breath! ;))
"All dogmatic decrees of ('this forum'.. er' a, of)  the Pope, (saved for ever, huh) made with or without his general council, ( :) naw, 'i' pass on that one, huh? well maybe just the amen kid then?) ARE INFALLIBLE ... Once made, no pope or council can reverse them...THIS IS THE CATHOLIC PRINCIPLE, THAT THE CHURCH CANNOT ERR IN FAITH."
---The Catholic World, pages 422, 423.

And posters with/out emails?? They ARE still the ones in the closet & are spiritual cowards! Or concerned with Spam?? Are folks so brain dead that they cannot find a deleat button????? Matt, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul, all sent to do the Master's work from [hidden locations?] Wow! some Christian wittness.  

I have been on the internet for a number of years. And the mail in the inbox [is one of the best witnessing tools the Lord has blessed us with!] And some want to hide it under the bed? :'(  This is truly a 'sleeping' bunch of Matt. 25'ers here is all the Master has got to say!! Matt. 10:5-38 are not these ones!! but perhaps they might be the dead ones of Eze. 37?
Whatcha think Wreck?

---John
 

Hello JTB,

I didn't think you would let that rest, so let's see if you practice what you preach. Every one of my messages has a link at the bottom that gives my full name, where I live, what I did for a living, and a lot of other personal information. Let's see as much personal information on you as I have provided about me. My E-mail is also available.

Go for it JTB or quit whining about something you yourself don't do. We'll all be waiting. In case you can't figure out how to click the link on the bottom of every one of my posts, here is my information:

Tom Rightmer
Lawton, Oklahoma
E-Mail - blkidps@sirinet.net
Web Site:  http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/index.html (http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/index.html)
Male
Scotch, Irish, Cherokee
Age 54
Christian (IN CHRIST!!!)
Retired and Disabled Police Officer

Post your's, or hide JTB and be a spiritual coward.   8)

Go John the Baptist Go ;D


(http://www.beautifulclipart.com/clipart/smiley/smile5.gif)

Hay, I thought that you could not & did not read my stuff ???

Perhaps your memories are also like the Catholic 'submission', as in brain dead?

Any way, 'i' am as open as sunlight! :) I have posted up many places, and on many forums (including this one I think) a very public library site which I use to store some things on. One time the hackers got to my material here on my home computor (devil or whatever) and I lost it all. So this is the reason for the library site.

I am not looking for posters there per/say, some times I get a couple. But if I remember rightly, there is not much information about me that is missing there. Most of you here, & 'i', have very little in common it seems? & surely you would find me & my material even more boring, evil, & garbled, than your programed mind could handel, should you venture on satans ground, huh?  

The sit again, is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pastornb/messages

---John

Methinks John's been "called out."  Methinks my money's on Tom as well... ;D

Hello JTB,

I've been to your site, but I obviously didn't read all of the messages. YEP, just what I thought, YOU ARE HIDING. An E-mail address means nothing. Post the same information I posted or consider yourself what you called me, A SPIRITUAL COWARD. Giving your E-mail address is like saying you are on the Internet, nothing. You even hide behind initials on your own site "N.B.", or are the initials false?

If you are as "open as sunlight", post the same information I posted JTB, NB, YAHOO, or whoever you are. In the for what it is worth category, I knew you would hide. Not only are you hiding in the closet, there is NO LIGHT in your closet.

I'll pray for you JTB, ah? NB, ah? YAHOO, ah? whoever you are.

ANYWAYS,

BACK TO THE ORDINANCES OF THE SABBATHS, NEW MOONS AND FEAST DAYS

2 KINGS 17[36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

As you can see in above scripture-the ordinances,the law,and the commandments are all separate. Many have
come in the name of Christ and have decieved many, saying that HE nailed the ordinances, the law, and the ten commandments to the cross.But thats not what the bible says

COL.2  [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Above scripture says the handwriting of the ordinances were nailed to the cross. The 10 commandments were not nailed to the cross and niether were the ordinances. Only the laws contained in these ordinances which pointed to Jesus.
On the sabbaths,  new moons,  and the holydays (feast days)

NEH.10 [32] Also we made ordinances for us, to charge ourselves yearly with the third part of a shekel for the
service of the house of our God;[33] For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Do ya see how these offerings were made as an ordinance (the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel), which pointed  to Christ (a shadow of Christ) and were done during these days.
The sabbaths - new moon - set feasts

2 CHR.8  [12] Then Solomon offered burnt offerings unto the LORD on the altar of the LORD, which he had built before the porch,[13] Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

The sabbaths - new moon - solemn feasts

As we can plainly see its not the sabbaths or the new moon or GODS holy days that were nailed to the cross. It was the meat and drink offerings of those days that were nailed to the cross! Think about the last supper! The bread and the wine! JESUS abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.

ISAIAH 24 [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

The bottom line is THE DAY OF THE LORD! He will come with fire! They changed the ordinance! They transgressed the laws. But there will be a FEW who will try to obey GOD.
BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD  and not the words of men!
ANYWAYS, does anyone see what im sayin the scriptures are sayin? Am i barkin up the wrong tree? WHY? It seems pretty straight forward to me. The new testament says that Jesus nailed to the cross the law contained in the ordinances. The ordinances are GODS holy days and the law contained in those ordinances were the burnt offerings,blood offerings, meat and drink offerings(which were a shadow of Christ). Can anybody see this. If not, why?  

Hi again

ORDINANCES VAIN OBLATIONS-another way to prove is looking at the oblations

ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
[13] Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Bring no more vain oblations - WHY? Because Jesus nailed these offerings(oblations) to the cross. The sabbath,
the new moons were not nailed to the cross nor were the 10 commandments.

Numbers 18  [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.

Just wanted to show you this scripture to confirm that the oblations were the offerings by the law of the ordinance.

EZEK.45  [15] And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.[16] All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel.[17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Once again you can read that it was the burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths. And it was the PRINCE OF PEACE who prepared the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

LUKE 22  [15] And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
[16] For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.[17] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:[18] For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

The bread-meat offering-now Christ
The wine-drink offering-now Christ
The blood of animals-sin offering-THE BLOOD OF CHRIST

Gettin right is the bottom line. Im not out to win an argument.

Hello Wreck,

If you have fellowship with Christ one day per week, you rob yourself of 6. There's the secret and part of the GOOD NEWS, the GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE.

Hello "Open as Sunlight", JTB, NB, Yahoo, or Whoever,

Are you saying there is something there other than Mr. Yahoo?   ;D

If so, why don't you get brave, turn the light on, come out of the closet, and post it. Until then, wear your own tag, "Spiritual Coward". You designed it and it fits. I won't hold my breath waiting, but I will still pray for you Yahoo.

Sad, But True, Amen

Brother Love :)

**********
John here:
Forum readers. Here are two persons claiming to be Christians.
Both have made positives statements in the missive (post) above. One even says that the others post is true. Then follows by an Amen.

All one needs to do is read the library sites material to see if these Christians are of God? It is that simple! No LIARS will be in the kingdom of God!
".. Neither whatsoever worketh abomination, [OR MAKETH A LIE: .." Rev. 21:27.

One even SAYS: "It is OBVIOUS that I have not read all of the Material" This is ALSO OBVIOUS that this is the way the Master's Word is read too, or at least lived.  See Matt. 4:4

---John

More proff of what the ORDINANCES really are

EPH.2  [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances

JOSHUA 8,[31] As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.

book of the law of Moses

2 CHR.2   [4] Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening

HEBREWS 9[1] Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal
redemption for us.

first covenant had also ordinances of divine service
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances,

HEBREWS 10[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect..
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

yup

PSALM 40  [6] Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,[8] I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

yup

LEV.6  [8] And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,[9] Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.

This is the law of the burnt offering:
Yup. the law contained in the ordinances

Numbers 19  [1] And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,[2] This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:[3] And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the priest, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face:[4] And Eleazar the priest shall take of her blood with his finger, and sprinkle of her blood directly before the tabernacle of the congregation seven times:

Does anyone believe these scriptures. Does anyone see the 10 commandments here in the law contained within then ordinances?

Hello Yahoo,

You started the name calling and you continue. However, you got caught in your own trap. I have my own Holy Bible, and it contains the Old Testament. I've read it countless times and will read it many more times. I'm not interested in reading your version of the Law or your interpretation that limits fellowship with the Lord and Saviour. In fact, you cheapen and take away from the GIFT and vainly try to add your own goodness to a perfect sacrifice. If you wish to live by the Law, you must live by all of it. You also advocate limiting fellowship with the Lord and Saviour to one day per week instead of 7. Your answer to being caught in your own trap is more name calling. Are you digging another hole that you, yourself, will fall into? "Open as sunlight", you need to examine the hole you are already in before you dig another one.

In the meantime, I'll tell you one more time that fellowship with THE LORD AND SAVIOUR is a real joy, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I'll continue to pray for you "Open as Sunlight". Your continued name calling is really getting pretty sad, for you. Now, here is what you have been waiting for and don't understand.

IN CHRIST (24/7).

Hi Blackeyed Peas
Are you confusing me with someone else. Ive called no one names?

And Black Eyed Peas
Since you brought up the pit i guess ill put in the WORDS 2 cents

PSALM 94 [11] The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;[13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of
adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.

Teach out of thy law - until pit digged for the wicked

PSALM 119 [84] How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me?[85] The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.[86] All thy commandments are faithful:
they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.

They who are not after the law have dug pits(So BEPs as you can read its those who want GODS law thrown away that have dug the pits)ALL THY commandments faithful. Not just nine?

PROVERBS 28 [9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
[10] Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright
shall have good things in possession.

Turn from hearing the law and fall into pit they themselves dug

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.[17] Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.[18] And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.[22] And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

DAY OF THE LORD - transgressed the laws-gathered in the pit - after many days visited (one thousand years?)

REV.20 [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Is this the reason Jesus says that only a few will be saved? There are so many people that claim the 10 commandments are no longer to be kept. Most people intentionally do not keep GODS sabbath and ignore the commandment about graven images.

The new testament says if you break one of the commandments, you break them all. Has the whole world been decieved as the bible claims? Will good intentions or a warm fuzzy at a sunday go to meeting bring us eternal life or is it the keeping of GODS 10 commandments as JESUS said in Matt. 19 ?

Hey BEPs,
You wrote
Hello Wreck,
If you have fellowship with Christ one day per week, you rob yourself of 6. There's the secret and part of the GOOD NEWS, the GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE.

Sooo....Do we lose this grace you speak of once we reach the 1000 year period of rest? Because the scripture below says at that time ALL flesh(those that are left after Jesus deals with transgressors) will come up to worship HIM on the sabbath day.

ISAIAH 66 [21] And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Hello Wreck,

No, you are confusing who the post was for. John the Baptist has been doing name calling for a long time. He's the only one doing name calling as far as I can see. He has claimed to be "open as sunlight" here, pastornb somewhere else, and who knows what else from his dark and anonymous closet. His name calling is all over the forum.

Hey BlackeyedPeas

JAMES 5 [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for
the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.[8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.[9] Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

What does this passage in James mean? How do recieve this early and latter rain spoken of in the gospel of grace.

DEUT.11 [13] And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,[14] That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.[15] And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.[16] Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;

rain in due season- the first rain and the latter rain- if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments

HOSEA 6 [1] Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.[2] After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.[3] Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight
one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.Times a gettin short BEPs.

JOEL 2 [19] Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine,
and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
[20] But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and
his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.[21] Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.[22] Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do
spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.[23] Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he
will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

Be ye also patient - until he receive the early and latter rain - Lets not forget what we must do to receive this rain
Look in Revelations for the corn - wine - oil - northern army - beast of the field. Joel 2 is speaking of a time which has not yet come. But it will.

LEV.26 [1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.[2] Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.[3] If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;[4] Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

Rain in due season - IF you keep GODS sabbath - reverence my sanctuary (Ye are the temple) - walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments

Anyone wish to comment on these scriptures. Do ya believe the scriptures? Are yas gonna now point to new testament scriptures which speak about the law contained within the ordinances and say we need not keep the commandments.

Hello Wreck,

You are more than welcome to live under the law, have at it.

You have a 7th day Sabbath, and I have a 7 day Sabbath. In fact, I have a neverending Sabbath.

Hey BEPs
you wrote
I have a 7 day Sabbath. In fact, I have a neverending Sabbath.

Is your statement above something i can look up in the scriptures? If so please tell me where.

**********
Hay wreck,
Did you not ever run into professed Christian's who believe that they are never to work, just let Christ do it all? God will take care of me, they boast! Then just lay back & even void out the COMMAND to WORK the other six days?

---John

PS: are 'you' wasting the Lord's time is the question??? Titus 3:9-11

Hello Wreck & JTB,

I'm through with this foolish argument and have better things to do with my time. If you boys wish to live under the law, good luck and go for it. I'll pray for you.

Yea BEPs
I couldnt find any scripture either to back up your statement. Been nice talkin to ya.

*******
Wonder when Rom. 13 applies? Of course no one here much understands other scripture, let alone Paul.
---John

Hey a4c, old babe do you believe the scripture below. Whats it saying.

1 COR.3 [1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.[2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now
are ye able.

I have fed you with milk

ISAIAH 28 [9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk. a4c, you been weaned yet?
What is this rest and what is this refreshing the WORD is speaking of that the people will not hear. That you will not here 4ac.

EXODUS 31 [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed - There it is.

JER.6 [16] Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.[17] Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.[18] Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them.[19] Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken
(Jesus will return at the last trumpet) I hope your listening by then a4c. I hope you dont deny the WORD then.
ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls

ISAIAH 58 [12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The restorer of paths to dwell in

a4c, GOT MILK?

Under the law of Moses, keeping the sabbath day was required of Israel (Exodus 20:8-11), and the punishment for violations was death by stoning (Numbers 15:32-36). But our Apostle Paul tells us that we, "... are not under the law, but under grace." Our doctrine in this present dispensation of grace is the teaching that our risen Lord Jesus Christ gave to us through our Apostle Paul in the 13 letters of Romans-Philemon. Paul never once tells us to keep the sabbath day. On the contrary, he clearly teaches that we do not have to keep the sabbath:

In Romans 14:5-6 he writes, "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it ...."

Likewise Paul says in Colossians 2:16, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days ...."

So keeping the sabbath day was a commandment for Israel, under the law. It is not a commandment for the church, which is under grace.

Author Unknown

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/qa4.html

Still another post of yours that you have stolen from a copyrighted article.
Q: Are Christians supposed to keep the sabbath day?

A: Under the law of Moses, keeping the sabbath day was required of Israel (Exodus 20:8-11), and the punishment for violations was death by stoning (Numbers 15:32-36). But our Apostle Paul tells us that we, "... are not under the law, but under grace." Our doctrine in this present dispensation of grace is the teaching that our risen Lord Jesus Christ gave to us through our Apostle Paul in the 13 letters of Romans-Philemon. Paul never once tells us to keep the sabbath day. On the contrary, he clearly teaches that we do not have to keep the sabbath:

In Romans 14:5-6 he writes, "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it ...."

Likewise Paul says in Colossians 2:16, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days ...."

So keeping the sabbath day was a commandment for Israel, under the law. It is not a commandment for the church, which is under grace.

Knox,

Did you notice the label "Author Unknown" on the post? I get things from friends, family, and E-mail circles every day. Many times, the author is not listed, and who knows how many hands it has gone through. It appears that you were looking for an opportunity to make an accusation, as the label makes it clear that he is not claiming the material to be his own.

(http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/chillpill.jpg)

By the way, there is a copyright notice on the picture, but you have to enlarge the picture to see it.

Hello JTB,

Let me know if you run low.

(http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/chillpill.jpg)

**********
Hi Wreck,
just a short missive. It seems these commandment hangers are now deleating both the Sabbath Commandment & the one on being a liar, huh? Two of ten, the batting average is creeping upward!

Quote: "I'M THROUGH WITH THIS FOOLISH ARGUMENT AND HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO". (perhaps that of taking the doorhandel off of his closet from the inside?)

Anyway Wreck, notice the word of foolish? In other words he wants these Royal Laws of God to be Caesar enforced, and then  'hung' in schools & government buildings! And with the very next breath he & they state that they are foolish & ARE LEGALISTIC!! (Babylon is a good 'inspirational' SCRIPTURE WORD for these ones!)

I wonder if some of these NO LAW guys have not finally snared a new MUTURE convert? See James 1:14-15 Just perhaps inside the closet, there are lightbulbs so he can 'see' in James 2:8-12 that this foolish law of God as he calles it, will be the STANDARD USED TO PROVE IF 'h'E IS A CHRISTIAN OR NOT! So far, he is not faring very well! :'(  

For, James also says BY INSPIRATION that if a person breaks even one of the commandments, that he IS
GUILTY OF BREAKING THEM ALL! James even IDENTIFIES the 10 commandments as the STANDARD OF JUDGEMENT in verse 10-12.

And surely this law of God would need to be shamelessly  slandered & BLASPHEMED AGAINST by 's'atan, (and his helpers) for it is the VERY LETTER (EPISTLE) OF CHRIST CHARACTER! 1 Cor. 3:3
(but they most likely do not know what the Word 'epistle of Christ' means anyway, huh? or perhaps they can steal some others work as they have been accused of, to address the situation?)

Regardless Wreck, John states it V-E-R-Y CLEARLY what these ones in all reality are. 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, [I KNOW HIM], and [KEEPETH NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THR TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.]" What Born Again Christian would not want to KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD????????????? There just ain't no such one in existence!

It is WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINITY that the [COMMANDMENTS OF GOD] *Define the SAVED ONES, WHO [ALSO HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST]"!! (His 'Epistle' in their hearts!) See Rev. 12:17

Take care! But if you want another 'used' & 'useful' site? drop me an e-mail!

---John



 
 

JTB do you REALLY believe the WOrd of God.  Let's see what sin the world is really being convicted of by Jesus himself.

]Joh 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8  And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9  Of sin, because they believe not on me;

HHHMMMMM I wonder JTB, wrecknsow and the lot, do you see anything about keeping the commandments that condemns these people?  I'm sure you will have a foolish answer or no reply at all but this statment is quite clear.  The greatest and unforgivable sin that sends one to hell is their unbelief in Christ.

Think about it for a while and stop trying to justify yourselves through the law.  It doesn't work.

By the way...I forgot to mention that satan's agents will be comming out of the woodwork! ;) ---John
*****

I knew you wouldn't answer JTB because you can't.  You confuse the law and its purpose.  I really don't think there is much point in showing you the truth as you just twist the scriptures to try and show yourself as worthy of salvation which NO ONE is.  I sure hope you realize before it's too late.

Remember Jesus says "I NEVER knew you" not that he knows someone no longer.  I'd really like to see how one can lose salvation if Jesus says he NEVER knew someone.  He couldn't make such a claim if you were saved but lost it later on and again what power does the blood of Jesus really have if it can't truly cover you sin?  

You claim people to be lawless all the time, yet you fail to see the difference between following Christ from love and not fear.  You only obey the ten commandments (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt even though no human deserves it) because you want to justify yourself as righteous not because you love God.  You do it because you think you will lose your salvation if you don't.  That's not out of love and respect but fear.  You wouldn't bother with the ten commandments if you didn't feel righteous of yourself to condemn others.  You completely miss the mark.  If you only follow the ten commandments (the school master to bring us to Christ) where does witnessing come in?  When do you show others the gospel?  When they come to church?  We know that if one is unsaved they will in no wise go to such a place.  

"There is none that seek after God"

Amen Brother

Brother Love :)

Hello John The Baptist,

CONGRATULATIONS!

I think you may have set several records here on Christians Unite, and don't think it hasn't gone without notice.

1 - Smallest percentage of pleasant messages.

2 - Highest percentage of messages with name calling and hate spewing.

3 - Number one in terms of self-righteousness, in your own opinion.

4 - Members of just about all churches and denominations called names.

5 - Over 300 messages of pure hog wash and pig slop, in your terms.

6 - Discouraged an unknown number of people coming here for fellowship.

We've come up with an award for you, and it will be given on an annual basis to someone deserving. It's a little bit vague since nobody knows whether you are a man, a woman, a child, an alien, or several entities of all or some of the above. I personally think YOU ARE SEVERAL ENTITIES ON THE FORUM.

No problem though, the award can be vague but fancy, expensive, and very pretty. I just picked up the first one, and it's gorgeous, It's on a glass pedestal and is inscribed with huge letters:

JTB BRICK AWARD

UM???, already spent the money, and I think they spelled something wrong. OH WELL? In conclusion: You are a legend in your own mind, and someone said you were a figment of your own imagination. I'm going to do one of two things: (1) Completely ignore you; (2) Report you to the moderator. I don't think that anyone has come close to creating as much hate and discontent as you have.

JTB, just remember one thing: wherever you go, there you are.