Hearing God

[Mr. 5020]

This thread reminds me of a sermon I heard once from a guest speaker at my old church.  First he asked everyone that thought that the Bible was the most important book in the world to stand up.  As far as I could see (I ran sound from the back, so I had a good view), everyone stood up.  Then he asked a few people why they thought the Bible was so important.  Then he said, "Now, out of all you who think the Bible is the most important book in the world, all of you who have read the whole book - Genesis 1 to Revelation 22 - sit down."  I think I was one of 3 people who sat down.  The Bible gives us answers to almost every problem in life.  Look at these examples.

A mom of a 25 year old daughter writes:

But i do think there are many times in life where it's difficult to know what God wants us to do. An example is my 25 yr. old daughter who has been in college majoring in Art for 6 years. She is always broke because she doesn't have time to make enough maoney on the side to support herself. It's hard for me to know if God wants us to keep giving her money or let her find the time to support herself. I will get as many opinions on this from Christians as there are christians. Also, many people have wanted to borrow money from me. I have no problem with loaning them money but what is good for them? Again, there are no clear cut answers from scripture. I think there are a lot of similar situations in life where it's not easy to discern what God wants us to do.

Well, this is easy.  Don't spoil them, but give them enough to survive.  The Bible says, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." (1 Timothy 5:8, KJV, Emphasis mine)

See how the bible does that?  It's great.

[John the Baptist]

Romans 10:13.  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 14.  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
 15.  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
 16.  But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
 17.  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God calls and speaks to us through the preacher and the true preacher of God today relates to the hearer the word contained in the Bible. One must study the Bible to be sure the things the preacher preaches are according to God. There are no miracles today to show the preacher is of God. Today his word must be compared with the written word to know, "thus saith the Lord."
 The Bible is complete in God's will for man and miraculous visions, dreams and mind revelations are not necessary today to reveal God to us. God calls and speaks to us through His inspired word given to us through the Holy Spirit to and penned by Holy men of God. It is the Bible.  It is the only authority and revelation of God that is needed. Man tries to add to it and distort it and that leads many down the wrong pathway because they do not take the time to find out for themselves if it be of God or not according to His word in the bible. Many times they go on feelings created in them by the preacher.

**************
Hi friend:
God is not now, or ever was He dependent on 'mankind'! See Rom. 2:14-15. Christ stated that if we hold our peace, EVEN THE ROCKS WOULD CRY OUT! Nature, women, donkies, whatever? Perhaps you think that 'nature' is not God's inspired Word?

[Willowbirch]

I think all creation testifies to the One who created it.

IN A SENSE, Nature is the "inspired word" simply because God spoke and His creation came into existence. But Nature is fallen and corrupted since our sin entered it. It "groans and travails".

I'm not going to learn God's instructions by staring at a rock all day. (OR a donkey, for that matter.)

He tells us to be strong in the "word", in "truth", to "search the scriptures". He tells us to feed on it! We can't simply take a walk in the park and absorb what God wills for us to do! He would not have taken the time to inspire and preserve our Bible if Nature were enough to satisfy our needs. (Not that I have anything against park-walking.)
We can pray, we can meditate on the wonders our God has created, but without His word in our hearts we are empty. Deluded.

[John the Baptist]

I think all creation testifies to the One who created it.

IN A SENSE, Nature is the "inspired word" simply because God spoke and His creation came into existence. But Nature is fallen and corrupted since our sin entered it. It "groans and travails".

I'm not going to learn God's instructions by staring at a rock all day. (OR a donkey, for that matter.)

***
John here:
True, but you have had the oppurtunity to live in todays setting! And there is NO disagreement with your posting from this end. And if there were? That still does not change the truth, huh?

And about staring at a rock all day? Those in Rom. 2:14-15 were not that 'spiritually' brain dead! Read on to 'see' if you can, where the 'work of the law' was secured?

And you say that.. 'absorb what God wills us to do!'?? Wow, you mean we need to do something? you will get in a peck of  deep trouble with that one?! God gives us grace with NO COVENANT CONDITIONS 'me' thinks is what most try to cram down your throat around here? Otherwise you are a LEGALIST trying to work your way to heaven!  

You say in your closing remarks... 'without His Word in our hearts we would be empty. Deluded'.

You think that these in Rom. 2:14-15 are these type?? Perhaps 'i' might just print the words from Paul, the Inspiration from the Word of Christ, for clarity?

Rom. 2:15
"Which [shew] the work of the [law written in their hearts],.."

Sure sounds like these 'Gentile' ones had more going for them than the ones of today that cry out Lord, I love you! Lord I am saved! Lord (and 'universe') the law is FINISHED! All we need to do is believe Lord! Work??? [WORK] OF OBEDIENCE??? You know better than that Lord, I am saved with ONLY FAITH!

One of these two class were seen in Heb. 10:16 as saved, & had not even ever heard of the Word 'believe'! And the brodway ones on Matt. 7 professed 'belief' yet they were Christless indeed! (His 'Epistle' was missing from their heart & ;mind'! They were brain d-e-a-d!)

Then yes, you are right so far at least? There is the other class that are in todays setting with much Light & Truth & all the while they are doing their best to live it by the Master's power! (Phil 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9) And the motive?? It is because they LOVE THEIR MASTER! (legalists your moderator says!! Hardly!)

Concludes John's remarks
*******************

He tells us to be strong in the "word", in "truth", to "search the scriptures". He tells us to feed on it! We can't simply take a walk in the park and absorb what God wills for us to do! He would not have taken the time to inspire and preserve our Bible if Nature were enough to satisfy our needs. (Not that I have anything against park-walking.)
We can pray, we can meditate on the wonders our God has created, but without His word in our hearts we are empty. Deluded.

[Left Coast]

Rom. 2:14-15 only tells us we know Gods LAWS in our hearts. Not that we know the gospel. We know there is a God we know we do things that are not right. And so we invent religion. You find people worshipping some kind of a god everywhere. I live in Eugene, Oregon there are nature freeks everywhere, I was one. But these people know nothing about the God of the bible until they read the word, like I did. I still enjoy Gods creation but I don't worship it.
To know the gospel is another story.
Think of Rahab. God chose to save her so He got the word to her, then she became saved.
Ruth was the same type of a story.
Jesus went out of his way to reach the Samaritan woman.
Faith cometh by hearing. Salvation only comes when God gives us understanding of the scripture, not nature.

Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Ephesians 1:18  The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

God does not allow every one to see the gospel.

2 Corinthians 4:3  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2 Corinthians 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Corinthians 4:5  For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.
2 Corinthians 4:6  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Mat 11:25  At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

The Gospel is different than keeping Gods laws and commandments. The Gospel is not found in nature.

Acts 15:7  And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

[John the Baptist]

O' I see,
"And the Lord said, My Spirit shall not always STRIVE with (the inlightened, huh?) man, .." (MANKIND!)  Gen. 6:3

And the "EPISTLE OF CHRIST" in the heart is not salvation! Good show!   2 Cor. 3:3

And the Born Again & Recreated Heart is not the Holy Spirit's work? Wow!! You best get with it 'me' thinks! Try Acts 5:32.

"Forasmuch as [YE ARE MANIFESTLY DECLARED TO BE THE *EPISTLE (LETTER, CHARACTER) OF CHRIST ... WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, [BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, (any longer!) BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART." -------Yes, CONDITIONAL!

"This is the COVENANT that I will make with [them] after those days, saith the Lord, [I WILL PUT MY LAWS *INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND *IN THEIR MINDS WILL *I WRITE THEM]." Heb. 10:16

Not very interesting work from your end friend! I realize that if one has not been born Again, he has trouble comprehending the CHARACTER of CHRIST' Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant ! Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20

And David was a deluded 'unsaved saint' too, huh?
"The LAW OF THE LORD IS PERFECT, CONVERTING THE SOUL:.." Psalms 19:7

I see a clear differance in your post & mine, 'i' say that God does not 'NEED" me to finish His work, and you say that He does need you to do so?

---John

[Left Coast]

O' I see,
"And the Lord said, My Spirit shall not always STRIVE with (the inlightened, huh?) man, .." (MANKIND!)  Gen. 6:3

And the "EPISTLE OF CHRIST" in the heart is not salvation! Good show!   2 Cor. 3:3

And the Born Again & Recreated Heart is not the Holy Spirit's work? Wow!! You best get with it 'me' thinks! Try Acts 5:32.

"Forasmuch as [YE ARE MANIFESTLY DECLARED TO BE THE *EPISTLE (LETTER, CHARACTER) OF CHRIST ... WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, [BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, (any longer!) BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART." -------Yes, CONDITIONAL!

"This is the COVENANT that I will make with [them] after those days, saith the Lord, [I WILL PUT MY LAWS *INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND *IN THEIR MINDS WILL *I WRITE THEM]." Heb. 10:16

Not very interesting work from your end friend! I realize that if one has not been born Again, he has trouble comprehending the CHARACTER of CHRIST' Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant ! Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20

And David was a deluded 'unsaved saint' too, huh?
"The LAW OF THE LORD IS PERFECT, CONVERTING THE SOUL:.." Psalms 19:7

I see a clear differance in your post & mine, 'i' say that God does not 'NEED" me to finish His work, and you say that He does need you to do so?

---John

I don’t know if you were addressing this to me or not. If you were I thank you for two reasons. The second reason is you have given me a verse I had set aside to present to you at an appropriate time.
The first reason is - if this is the conclusion you have come to, from what I have said, my apologies. I must not have been very clear.
You find it necessary to include your conclusions WITH the scripture. I have done the same in the past but quickly concluded that makes the scripture less clear. In essence I felt I was adding to the word.
Now I highlight parts of verses and give commentary later, I trust God to use His word.
By adding IN the scripture I could confuse someone that is new to the word. I also felt it gave my interpretation a certain authority it really didn’t have.
On my earlier post # 14 I said:

When we become saved it is because God has taken out our heart of stone and given us a heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

We are a new creature, BORN AGAIN. The old creature found pleasure in sin, the new creature delights in the law of God.
God has to give us the heart to percieve and hear His word.

Deuteronomy 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

If you thought I was claiming it was anything BUT the work of God I apologize.
Maybe I misunderstand you. I had felt that you thought it was necessary to keep Gods commandments TO be saved.
You seem to raise the 10 commandments above all of Gods other commandments.
While God wrote the 10 in stone the entire bible is God breathed. And while god did write them in stone why would you put them above what He said DIRECTLY to the people when HE took control of the mouths of His prophets.
But you have given me

2 Corinthians 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

I present it to you without my opinions written between the lines.
This should have shown you that the 10 written in stone are not the focus of the gospel.
All of the bible is Gods commandments.
There are some 7th day followers that have allowed a woman to have authority.

1 Timothy 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

If you respect the false prophecies of Ellen G. White you are in violation of this law. It should be written in your heart.
If you worship on the seventh day you are in violation of Gods law.

Matthew 28:1 ¶ And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre, (YLT)

Christ fulfilled the seventh day sabbath. That is why we could do no work on it. To show we can do no work for our salvation. When you reject the new sabbath you are rejecting the work of Jesus. You are rejecting His resurrection.

[nChrist]

2 Corinthians 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

I present it to you without my opinions written between the lines.
This should have shown you that the 10 written in stone are not the focus of the gospel.

Oklahoma Howdy to Left Coast,

AMEN! The Gospel of the Grace of God IS THE GOOD NEWS! Jesus Christ fulfilled the law and PAID IT ALL! on the cross.

In Christ,
Tom

[John the Baptist]

(removed)

I had felt that you thought it was necessary to keep Gods commandments TO be saved.
You seem to raise the 10 commandments above all of Gods other commandments.
While God wrote the 10 in stone the entire bible is God breathed. And while god did write them in stone why would you put them above what He said DIRECTLY to the people when HE took control of the mouths of His prophets.
But you have given me

****
John here:
No, you are mistaken. (perhaps is is my fault) OBEDIENCE is 'Desired' by the Born Again heart. One that is RECREATED WITH TRUE AGAPE LOVE, OK? Acts 5:32's surrender is required before one can receive the Holy Ghost. See Matt. 28:20. The Law of God r-e-a-l BONDAGE to sinners! But not the SAVED AT PRESENT ONES! (Sabbath KEEPING INCLUDED!)

And in Isa. 8:20 we see where God places His Portion of Scripture that He ONLY WROTE, it is along (together as a test) with the rest on His 'Inspired Testimony'. If any go contrary to it? They are LIGHTLESS! (or see 1 John 2:4 for these ones being a liar with NO TRUTH, but the why, is what is important?!)

Read Isa. 8:20 now, OK? (in the K.J.) And about the testimony part of HOLY MEN? Surely we agree that Matt. Mark, Luke & John are not The HOLY SPIRITS WORDINGS?? These Holy men 'penned' the Words as best that they understood them to describe the meaning. If not, the four books that are called Gospels would all be written alike. They even are somewhat contrary if not studied as a 66 book whole! See 2 Tim. 3:16

And then we see others in 'the Inspired Word of God' with their choice of descriptive Words, as in 2  Ki. 18:27 or 1 Sam. 25:22. Do we see this as the Holy Spirits language??

End of John remarks
***************

2 Corinthians 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

I present it to you without my opinions written between the lines.
This should have shown you that the 10 written in stone are not the focus of the gospel.
All of the bible is Gods commandments.
There are some 7th day followers that have allowed a woman to have authority.

1 Timothy 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

If you respect the false prophecies of Ellen G. White you are in violation of this law. It should be written in your heart.
If you worship on the seventh day you are in violation of Gods law.

Matthew 28:1 ¶ And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre, (YLT)

Christ fulfilled the seventh day sabbath. That is why we could do no work on it. To show we can do no work for our salvation. When you reject the new sabbath you are rejecting the work of Jesus. You are rejecting His resurrection.

[btettemer]

Again, there are no clear cut answers from scripture. I think there are a lot of similar situations in life where it's not easy to discern what God wants us to do.

This is exactly what I am asking about.  I hear people stating they wee called by God to become missionaries, or the like.  I love reading and studying the bible.  I sometimes think I should quit my job to go to bible school.  Because I think this, is God telling me to?  I don't thnk so.

[John the Baptist]

Again, there are no clear cut answers from scripture. I think there are a lot of similar situations in life where it's not easy to discern what God wants us to do.

This is exactly what I am asking about.  I hear people stating they wee called by God to become missionaries, or the like.  I love reading and studying the bible.  I sometimes think I should quit my job to go to bible school.  Because I think this, is God telling me to?  I don't thnk so.

************************
Why do you say so? Matt. 28:20
---John asks

[btettemer]

I sometimes think I should quit my job to go to bible school.  Because I think this, is God telling me to?  I don't thnk so.

************************
Why do you say so? Matt. 28:20
---John asks

Because I question my reasons for this thought.  Is it my pride wanting to become a biblical scholar?  Do I just want to escape my current situation and hide my head in books?  DO I just want to do it because I enjoy it and it gives me pleasure?  Or, because I think it, is it from God?  Heck, Peter thought he should protect Jesus from death, and Christ's response?  Get behind me Satan!

[John the Baptist]

I sometimes think I should quit my job to go to bible school.  Because I think this, is God telling me to?  I don't thnk so.

************************
Why do you say so? Matt. 28:20
---John asks

Because I question my reasons for this thought.  Is it my pride wanting to become a biblical scholar?  Do I just want to escape my current situation and hide my head in books?  DO I just want to do it because I enjoy it and it gives me pleasure?  Or, because I think it, is it from God?  Heck, Peter thought he should protect Jesus from death, and Christ's response?  Get behind me Satan!

*****
So, back to the basics. Peter you say? Christ told Peter, Peter, 's'atan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat, ... and when thou art CONVERTED, strengthen the brethern Luke 22:31.

Do you remember what transpired? Then after he went out and 'wept bitterly', conversion took place! Peter knew that he was then ready, huh?

When there is [NOTHING] standing in your way that is ahead of Christ' call, when you can do nothing else, then you can be sure that 'self' is not involved! The test of God's call is recorded in Pauls work! He started from scratch. (in human logic) See 1 Cor. 9:1-2. His converts were few, yet, they were converted! Read the rest of the chapter?

How many professed ministers in todays setting follow the example of Paul? See verse 15! Or in 1 Cor. 5:3-5? Few indeed!! See Joshua 7:12's last part.

The leadership in the churches of today, if they were ever call to begin with, shun the commision of Christ & are wholesale guilty of the sin of 'omission'! Most will not handel that, would you?

---John

[Heidi]

I think that is is sometimes VERY IMPORTANT to WAIT on God. We can use and quote scripture all we like, but there are simply times when we don't KNOW what to do. I know for me, whenever i act on MY impulses, thinking they're coming from the holy Spirit, there are some self-serving motives going on. I think that precisely because our hearts still harbor sinful desires (and always will to a certain degree), that we need to "let go" of our situations to God until we absolutely know that our responses are coming from Him. I have know pastors who didn't get saved until way into their ministry. One of them told me he became a pstor to show how good he was and that his sermons were not based on scripture. This is a classic example of acting from self-serving purposes even though he had a justification from scripture. This is also why I have mentioned many times on this form that the truth is the only things that sets us free. Now that we are saved, we have the ability to look at our own motives to see if we're doing things for our glory or for God's glory. This is more important than obedience because we can't obey God until we KNOW where our motives are coming from. EVERYTHING, all the fruits of the spirit come from knowing the truth about ourselves and giving it to God.

[smartinez1984]

I read through the entire thread and I'm left thinking about a question that's been present within me for many years:

Does God speak to us today OTHER than through his Word (through preachers, our studies, etc.)

We had a small revival at our church this past weekend that was hosted by the women of the church. Therefore they had a woman preaching and they also had a woman who gave her testimony. Throughout the testimony she kept saying that God spoke to her and told her to speak to so-and-so, go someplace, etc. I was left wondering to myself how this happened.

Too many times I've seen the same on TV, from various televagelists. Some get so precise as if they were given direct orders. For example, I heard a preacher on TBN saying something similar to the following:

"I was driving on Highway 95 and God spoke to me and said, Turn off on this exit, go down 3 1/2 miles, make a left turn, go up 2 blocks, go into the Jiffy Mart, find the person behind the counter, tell him ... "

I guess my question is (with memories of "Mom" admonishing the whiner.. ) .... does this happen today? Is this real? Does God speak to us outside his Scripture today? Does he need to???

God Bless,

-Samson