Eternal Security

[Evangelist]

There are conditions and those conditions are as long as we abide in Him.

So....then you're on probation.

Sad. Hope your probie officer isn't too much of a hard-nose.  What do you think it would take to be "over the line?"  A little lie?  A big lie? Maybe just an unkind thought?  How about not giving enough? Or saying no to someone in need?  Does not reading a chapter a day count? Or is just a verse enough?  Can you skip a verse today?  How about tomorrow?

If you would, please give me a list of everything that would constitute a violation of the probation rules, just so I'll know at what point I've blown it, and it's useless to try anymore.

[Jemidon2004]

lol...there ain't no such thing as probation in Scripture...LOL. Atta way to be blunt Evang...lol

God Bless

ROFL

Joshua

[Allinall]

Brother Tom,

Your comments on faith were great!  They reminded me of a message our pastor preached a couple of Sundays ago.  One of the points he had was from Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.  For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."

We can't cram the gospel message down anyone's throat.  And while we express that message in words, we can never express it with words alone.  The salvation message is given "from faith for faith."  It comes from one who believes.  It is the belief of the one and the word of God for the basis of that belief that God uses when drawing someone to Himself.  I just thought that kinda neat.  It's faith that brings life.  I've always looked at that passage in context of Christian living, but it's about salvation.  I still think it applies well in the former, but the latter is the point.  "From faith for faith."  

[Reba]

Man will never be rightious enough or good enough or sinnless we cannot do anything to gain our salvation if we can not do anything to gain our salvation what ever could we to to keep it. Salvation is NOT a reward for our "good works" To say we must do 'this or that' is to say His salvation is not complete.

[Evangelist]

Man will never be rightious enough or good enough or sinnless we cannot do anything to gain our salvation if we can not do anything to gain our salvation what ever could we to to keep it. Salvation is NOT a reward for our "good works" To say we must do 'this or that' is to say His salvation is not complete.

AMEN!

[cris]

Dear Cris, being saved begins with the initial surrender of one’s heart to the Lord, but then it involves a continual surrender day-by-day, sometimes moment-by-moment, of the Christian’s will.  This is the act of sanctification, and sanctification is the act of remaining in the Lord (cf. John 15).

Listen to Eph 1:13-14:  “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.  Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance…” (cf. also 2Cor 1:22).
With the seal of the Spirit that is in our lives since we became saved, in all actuality, the Lord now owns us, and if He owns us, what can a human do to take away that ownership?  You cannot give back your salvation, because ownership belongs to the Lord.

The Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance; we’re marked with a deposit that certifies our bona fide entrance into heaven no matter what happens to our life here, so long as we're genuinely saved.  The idea of the Spirit being a deposit is that of a down payment with a guarantee of more to come.  GUARANTEED SISTER CRIS!!!!  HALLELJAH!!!!

And check out these two verses: Rom 6:23, 11:29,  “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”  “…for God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.”
The Lord does not take away the gift of salvation from a Christian, and salvation is both a gift and a calling.  No one can earn security with the Lord and no one can lose it; assurance of salvation is God's gift, and Rom 11:29 says that His gifts are irrevocable.

Nowhere in the bible does it state that the Lord takes away eternal life, on the contrary, the bible is full of statements and promises that say the Lord gives life, and that He gives it abundantly, never that He takes it away from someone who once had it.

Here are some questions from another thread that I started that no one can answer from the bible because the bible doesn’t support the loss of salvation:
http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=5998;start=0
If a man can loose his salvation, then where are the guidelines in the bible?
How far is too far that a man can backslide to actually loose his sole again?
Who is there in this world that has the power, the authority or the right to tell another man that he has lost his salvation?  What rules in the bible would he base it on?
How can a person take away from God or give back to God something that is not his?

Cris, if a Christian believes that he can lose his salvation then essentially he is doing works to keep his salvation, you cannot have one without the other.  You are very very intelligent and good with scripture, please cris, trust in a good God who loves you enough to never, never take away your right in the kingdom of His Son.  I praise God that you’re saved, and that you’ll never loose your soul!!!

please, be blessed in the Lord  

Silver

Silver,

Thank you.  I am blessed in the Lord because He saved me.  I don't ascribe to a works oriented philosophy.  There wasn't a thing I could do to save myself, and there isn't a thing I can do to keep it, either.  I am saved because God loves me.  I am saved by His grace only.  I am not worthy, nor is there anything I can do to make myself worthy, but God saves me anyway, because He loves me.

Some Christians believe in eternal security and some don't.  Those who don't believe in eternal security are still saved, regardless of what anyone says.  Each side has a list of bible verses proving their stance.  It's been an argument among Christians for a long time.

Again, please note Romans 11:29-----------God did not repent of giving us the gift of saving grace.  This is what Romans 11:29 is saying.

Sanctification is holiness.  Sanctification is separation.  Sanctification is relationship.  Sanctification is a state.  Believers are sanctified in Jesus Christ.  Sanctified believers are saints.  Sanctified saints are holy.

I NEVER SAID that God took away eternal life.  I said that one could reject it.

It isn't true that a person who believes in the possibility of losing their salvation is works oriented.  My thought was on one who deliberately and willfully decided to reject God.  Maybe they're called reprobates.  One can't say that this person wasn't saved in the first place.  That's a cop-out, in my opinion!

Thanks for addressing me as DEAR.  You're a dear one, also!

Grace and peace,
cris

     

[nChrist]

Brother Tom,

Your comments on faith were great!  They reminded me of a message our pastor preached a couple of Sundays ago.  One of the points he had was from Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.  For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."

We can't cram the gospel message down anyone's throat.  And while we express that message in words, we can never express it with words alone.  The salvation message is given "from faith for faith."  It comes from one who believes.  It is the belief of the one and the word of God for the basis of that belief that God uses when drawing someone to Himself.  I just thought that kinda neat.  It's faith that brings life.  I've always looked at that passage in context of Christian living, but it's about salvation.  I still think it applies well in the former, but the latter is the point.  "From faith for faith."   :)

Brother Kevin,

I was just giving thanks that I've been surrounded by people who love the LORD for my entire life. I'm also giving thanks for all Godly parents who do for their children what my parents did for me. They were a reflection of the love and care of our LORD, and the LORD was definitely working in and through them for the benefit of their children and many others outside of the family. There's another interesting comparison between an earthly family and the family of God.

Brother, I'm also reflecting on the excitement and joy many here have expressed when they know that their children belong to JESUS. There is no irony that great joy is many times the result in God's work for our children. AND, that joy lasts for a lifetime.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Timothy 6:12  Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Psalms 35:9  And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation.

II Timothy 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[cris]

Sister Cris,

The portions of Scripture you are thinking about don't mean what you think they do. I don't feel well enough to do a complete study on this right now, so I'll simply give you some examples.

The only faith that was taught in my house was JESUS. Nothing else was taught to my children and nothing else was allowed. That does not mean that I can force my children to have faith in JESUS. I did the best I could, and I firmly believe that all of my children belong only to JESUS. I don't give myself any credit for that, rather it is a matter of praise and thanks to the LORD for working in my home. My mother and dad did the same in their home, and the Salvation of their children was always a matter of prayer. The faith of my earthly father's house was in JESUS. My brothers and I could have departed from the faith of that house, but we didn't. I give thanks for Godly parents who made it a top priority to bring up their sons in the things of the LORD. However, no amount of discipline, threats, or effort could have forced us to accept JESUS as Lord and Saviour. The exact same thing could be said about our little church. The Godly men and women there could work their fingers to the bone in trying to teach us, and the faith there was in JESUS. I give thanks that I was in the presence of strong faith in JESUS for my entire childhood. However, they couldn't have faith for me, regardless of how hard they tried. My own personal faith was mine alone, and I could have departed from everything I was taught. I give thanks that I didn't.

Other portions of the Holy Bible cause a lot of confusion for Christians. I'll be general, not specific to the Scriptures you are thinking about. There are instructions all over the Holy Bible for Christian living, Christian testimony before men, AND, instructions to follow that our joy in JESUS will be more full. Many people confuse these instructions with Salvation. James and 1 John are good examples. Some of these portions of Scripture cause some folks to believe that we lose our Salvation if we sin and other doctrines that are simply false. Others use these portions of Scripture to teach that Salvation depends on our good works and all kinds of other doctrines that deny the only TRUTH. We were saved by God's Grace, and JESUS CHRIST was a GIFT we could never earn or deserve. Salvation isn't on the installment plan, and it never was. The work of Jesus on the Cross for our Salvation was perfect and complete. If we are truly born again children of God, we were 100% SAVED at the moment we accepted JESUS. The work is done, and we are held in the Mighty Hands of JESUS forever. This leads to the last thought I want you to think about. There are some people who claim to be Christians who never met JESUS, and JESUS doesn't know them. There are some who play act at being Christians and they are as lost as one can get.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

BEP,

Sorry to hear you're not feeling very well.  Is it your back pain?  Are your new meds not working?  Father, in the name of Your son, Jesus Christ, I lift up my brother BEP (Tom) to You.  I ask you Father to touch him right now as he reads.  Relieve Tom's pain.  Father, send Your angels to minister to and for Tom.  Send Your Holy Spirit to comfort him.  Give him wisdom, Lord God.  Give his Doc's wisdom.  Father, give him a word of encouragement today.  Father, I pray for a total healing for Tom, in every area of his life, mentally, physically, spiritually, and emotionally.  Give Tom courage and strength.  I thank You Father God that this child of Yours serves you, and I thank You Lord God that You've heard this prayer.  Amen.

The only verse I mentioned was 1Tim:4:1  Someone else mentioned three verses from Hebrews.

You wanted me to think on your last thought about some people play acting.  Are you saying there are people who don't believe but act as if they do, or, are you saying there are people who think they're saved but aren't?  Personally, and it's just my opinion, but I see no point in pretending to be saved.  Maybe, such a person as this sees a point in it, but I don't.  I have too much fear and respect for God to mock Him.  A long time ago, before I was saved, (maybe I better say before I was regenerated) when someone took the name of God in vain, I kind of shrugged my shoulders.  I didn't like hearing it, but it didn't bother me as much then, as it does now.  When I hear someone take God's name in vain, I fear for that person, not to mention how offensive it is to me.  My heart actually feels like it's in my throat.  I don't hear it very often, as I'm not around people who do this.  

Grace and peace,
cris

[nChrist]

Cris Said:

It isn't true that a person who believes in the possibility of losing their salvation is works oriented.  My thought was on one who deliberately and willfully decided to reject God.  Maybe they're called reprobates.  One can't say that this person wasn't saved in the first place.  That's a cop-out, in my opinion!

Sister Cris,

   I believe that to be completely true and not a cop-out at all. There are many people who have sat in church most of their lives, and they're lost. They may have been baptized and done other things in name only. The blunt truth is that they were never saved in the first place.

Many things happen when a person is truly born again and Saved, and they are all wrought by GOD, not us.

1. We are quickened into the Body of Christ RIGHT THEN - IMMEDIATELY! The word "quickened" can be rendered "translated", but it really means immediately.

2. Atonement, sanctification, and redemption are all the works of JESUS, not us. It is JESUS who makes us fit for the inheritance HE has promised us, not us.

3. The Seal of the Holy Spirit is place upon our hearts, and the Holy Spirit lives in our hearts. No power can break the Seal of the Holy Spirit. This SEAL sets us apart as a purchased possession of JESUS forever. We certainly can't break this SEAL, and no other power can either, including the devil.

4. The PROMISES of Almighty God have been given, and those PROMISES are so sure that GOD speaks of them as being already done.

5. We have everlasting LIFE in JESUS, and we won't be brought under condemnation. JESUS paid the price and penalty for us, and we are passed from death unto life.

In short, we were purchased, delivered, SEALED, and set apart forever as a possession of JESUS. The Work of JESUS is Perfect and complete in us, regardless of how unworthy we may be. For all of the above reasons, assurance of Salvation is and should be 100%. Not because of us - BECAUSE OF JESUS. Not because of any goodness we have - BUT IN SPITE OF OUR LACK OF GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS. Sister, we can't undo the Work of JESUS. BUT, here's what you call the cop-out again, there's nothing to undo if one has never been saved.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

[cris]

Cris Said:

It isn't true that a person who believes in the possibility of losing their salvation is works oriented.  My thought was on one who deliberately and willfully decided to reject God.  Maybe they're called reprobates.  One can't say that this person wasn't saved in the first place.  That's a cop-out, in my opinion!

Sister Cris,

   I believe that to be completely true and not a cop-out at all. There are many people who have sat in church most of their lives, and they're lost. They may have been baptized and done other things in name only. The blunt truth is that they were never saved in the first place.

Many things happen when a person is truly born again and Saved, and they are all wrought by GOD, not us.

1. We are quickened into the Body of Christ RIGHT THEN - IMMEDIATELY! The word "quickened" can be rendered "translated", but it really means immediately.

2. Atonement, sanctification, and redemption are all the works of JESUS, not us. It is JESUS who makes us fit for the inheritance HE has promised us, not us.

3. The Seal of the Holy Spirit is place upon our hearts, and the Holy Spirit lives in our hearts. No power can break the Seal of the Holy Spirit. This SEAL sets us apart as a purchased possession of JESUS forever. We certainly can't break this SEAL, and no other power can either, including the devil.

4. The PROMISES of Almighty God have been given, and those PROMISES are so sure that GOD speaks of them as being already done.

5. We have everlasting LIFE in JESUS, and we won't be brought under condemnation. JESUS paid the price and penalty for us, and we are passed from death unto life.

In short, we were purchased, delivered, SEALED, and set apart forever as a possession of JESUS. The Work of JESUS is Perfect and complete in us, regardless of how unworthy we may be. For all of the above reasons, assurance of Salvation is and should be 100%. Not because of us - BECAUSE OF JESUS. Not because of any goodness we have - BUT IN SPITE OF OUR LACK OF GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS. Sister, we can't undo the Work of JESUS. BUT, here's what you call the cop-out again, there's nothing to undo if one has never been saved.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

BEP,

I don't know if we're misunderstanding each other so, I'll try again.

What I meant was this--------no one has a right to accuse another of not being saved because of a difference of opinion regarding eternal salvation.  Some believe once saved always saved and some don't.  

Grace and peace,
cris

 

[nChrist]

Cris Said:

BEP,

I don't know if we're misunderstanding each other so, I'll try again.

What I meant was this--------no one has a right to accuse another of not being saved because of a difference of opinion regarding eternal salvation.  Some believe once saved always saved and some don't.

Grace and peace,
cris

Sister Cris,

This thread doesn't contain any accusations like that. I just read the thread again, and there is no hint of an accusation like that. This is simply a discussion about eternal life and Salvation.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Soldier4Christ]

I believe that Salvation cannot be lost nor can it be taken away.
It can be rejected but why in the world (or heavens) would someone that has tasted of that beautiful, sweet, heavenly gift, would want to reject it for the alternative is beyond all reasoning.

Heb 10:23  Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

[cris]

Cris Said:

BEP,

I don't know if we're misunderstanding each other so, I'll try again.

What I meant was this--------no one has a right to accuse another of not being saved because of a difference of opinion regarding eternal salvation.  Some believe once saved always saved and some don't.

Grace and peace,
cris

Sister Cris,

This thread doesn't contain any accusations like that. I just read the thread again, and there is no hint of an accusation like that. This is simply a discussion about eternal life and Salvation.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

BEP,

No one accused me of not being saved.  In this thread there were implications that if one questioned eternal salvation they were on probation and not saved.  Another implied that one who questions eternal salvation calls Jesus and God a liar (I think it was on this thread).  I realize these are opinions and not direct accusations.  I'm sorry I used the word "accused" as it was too strong a word.  All I ever said was that I thought a person could reject salvation if they chose to, hence, a loss of it.

Grace and peace,
cris

[cris]

I believe that Salvation cannot be lost nor can it be taken away.
It can be rejected but why in the world (or heavens) would someone that has tasted of that beautiful, sweet, heavenly gift, would want to reject it for the alternative is beyond all reasoning.

Heb 10:23  Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

No one firmly grounded in the Lord could possibly understand why anyone would reject salvation, but the point I was trying to make was that they could, hence, salvation lost.  There's a possibility that someone gets saved and remains a babe for too long a time, for whatever the reason.  Because of this, it's possible for them to be seduced or deceived or they just stop believing and go their own way.  1Tim:4:1 says in the latter days, some will depart from the faith because of seduction and doctrines of demons. I don't imagine Timothy was speaking of babes in Christ here, but rather those who knew Jesus Christ.  This is almost too incredible to believe, but it's prophecy and truth.  God sees it all from the beginning to the end.  This reminds me of the verse (don't recall exactly where it is at the moment, Matthew, I think) when God said He would shorten the days because if it were possible, even the very elect could be deceived.  

Grace and peace,
cris

 

[nChrist]

If one is truly Saved:

John 14:16-18  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Just one of the many promises of Almighty God.